Thunder vs Jazz

[aggie08 21792]

Pretty spot-on analysis from Zach Lowe (redundant) about where the Thunder need to go from here. Nothing too terrible scathing on Westbrook; just a couple little things that he could change that would make a world of difference (though, it may be too late, and those habits could already be locked in).

I do like the anecdote from a few years back--when Russ and KD were both hurt--how giddy Roberson and co. were from actually getting to touch the ball and share in the success or failure of the offense. That goes a long ways on any team.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23364202/zach-lowe-russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-nba

[kopp0e 1135]

Thunder looking to waive Melo..?

[Aqua Buddha 14803]

22 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Pretty spot-on analysis from Zach Lowe (redundant) about where the Thunder need to go from here. Nothing too terrible scathing on Westbrook; just a couple little things that he could change that would make a world of difference (though, it may be too late, and those habits could already be locked in).

I do like the anecdote from a few years back--when Russ and KD were both hurt--how giddy Roberson and co. were from actually getting to touch the ball and share in the success or failure of the offense. That goes a long ways on any team.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23364202/zach-lowe-russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-nba

That's as good of a write up as I've seen in a while about the Thunder franchise.  It's like a chicken and an egg.  Is the ball hogging stars the cause of the shitty supporting cast or are they hogging the ball because of the shitty supporting cast over the years?

I did like this quote:

 

Quote

For those Thunder, it was revolutionary. Sitting in the Barclays Center after a shootaround, Andre Roberson talked with something approaching wonder about getting to do things with the ball. It was fun! "Not just a little fun," Roberson told me then. "Sharing the ball, playing for each other -- I'm loving it."

Roberson is a guy with no offensive skills and he gets worse by the year and he's excited to be getting the ball?  Has he thought there's a reason he's not getting it?

Also took a few shots at Presti:

 

Quote

Regardless, the Thunder never provided Westbrook the personnel to go all-in on a spread pick-and-roll. In the draft, they erred toward defense, athleticism, and length, figuring they could turn college power forwards into wings and teach them to shoot. They have almost always had one nonthreatening shooter-- Roberson, Jerami Grant, Thabo Sefolosha, others -- mucking up driving lanes.

Oklahoma City's failure to develop an offensive system goes beyond Westbrook. But we have been talking about this problem for almost 10 years. The coach has changed, the bench has changed, the stars around him have changed.

That's what gets me about OKC.  They're always into these one way players who are borderline unplayable at the other end.  I'd rather a guy be average both ways instead of great one way and unplayable the other.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Aqua Buddha

[Jhawk 1075]

On 5/1/2018 at 1:32 AM, kopp0e said:

Thunder looking to waive Melo..?

If you look at the thunders payroll for the next 3 years they are estimated to be $14.5mm over the cap next year and then they are in the clear from a cap standpoint for the next two years (assume they don’t sign pg13).  Would it make sense to waive and stretch melo? He’s owed about $28mm and a stretch would allow that to be paid over 3 years. It wouldn’t get them out from luxury tax (unless they lose George) but it lessen the pain. 

I would think this would be a good way to go if they can keep PG. if they can’t then maybe it is better to just bit the bullet all next season and then have a clean slate for rebuild in 2019. 

[kopp0e 1135]

56 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

If you look at the thunders payroll for the next 3 years they are estimated to be $14.5mm over the cap next year and then they are in the clear from a cap standpoint for the next two years (assume they don’t sign pg13).  Would it make sense to waive and stretch melo? He’s owed about $28mm and a stretch would allow that to be paid over 3 years. It wouldn’t get them out from luxury tax (unless they lose George) but it lessen the pain. 

I would think this would be a good way to go if they can keep PG. if they can’t then maybe it is better to just bit the bullet all next season and then have a clean slate for rebuild in 2019. 

It beggs the question, what can the Thunder add if Russ/ PG & Melo are already over the maximum...

[Jhawk 1075]

They can’t really add anything. You just have to hope to keep PG and then maybe have a year that you just deal with a first round exit while keeping melo as far away from the team as possible. Then you try and get a few good free agents for 2019. The melo addition was so high risk I don’t know that the reward could ever justify that risk. 

[BigOrange1 6611]

why on earth would they stretch him and have him take up part of their cap for the next 3 years rather than just biting the bullet and paying him one more year?

[Jhawk 1075]

The only reason to stretch him is if PG leaves and they have cap space and there are other pieces out there they can add. That would be a desperation play to keep Russ happy. I would probably opt to just suck shit for a year and clear the roster of all contract you can. Try and get something solid starting in 2019. 

I was just reaching for ways to stay in the 4-6 seed range rather than enter a 6 year rebuild with Russ under contract for 4. I don’t think that can happen though. The thunder are starting their trail of tears to absolute irrelevance for the next 10 years. The first 3 years won’t be awful but after Russ is worn out then they are just screwed. 

[Patrick Bateman 3966]

12 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

The only reason to stretch him is if PG leaves and they have cap space and there are other pieces out there they can add. That would be a desperation play to keep Russ happy. I would probably opt to just suck shit for a year and clear the roster of all contract you can. Try and get something solid starting in 2019. 

I was just reaching for ways to stay in the 4-6 seed range rather than enter a 6 year rebuild with Russ under contract for 4. I don’t think that can happen though. The thunder are starting their trail of tears to absolute irrelevance for the next 10 years. The first 3 years won’t be awful but after Russ is worn out then they are just screwed. 

The issue is you still wouldn't have a ton of room this way.  Remove PG's 20 million cap hold and you're down to about 120 million.  Even if you could knock say 20 million off Melo's contract by negotiating a buyout and then stretching him, you'd still be somewhere around 100 million.  The expected cap is around 101 million.  You'd really have to move Roberson's 10 and the only way to do that would probably be to attach a draft pick.  Then you could probably move Patterson's small salary of about 5.5.  That'd give you some working room but that's a ton of things falling just right..... Still have the MLE and Bi-Annual exception, maybe.  Someone would need to check.  If you don't move those contracts then you could always get the luxury tax payer's exception.  Idk.  If I'm George's agency, I tell him to get the fuck out of Dodge, it doesn't look good next season and then you have Westbrook hit 30 making 38 mill and still have Adams making 25 million in 2020.  With his 30 millionish, there's your big 3.  93 million spoken for and maybe 107 million cap in 2020???  That would be moving Roberson's 10.5 million off the books somehow.

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[Message Board User 12405]

To sum it up, OKC is fucked for the foreseeable future.

[Jhawk 1075]

10 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

The issue is you still wouldn't have a ton of room this way.  Remove PG's 20 million cap hold and you're down to about 120 million.  Even if you could knock say 20 million off Melo's contract by negotiating a buyout and then stretching him, you'd still be somewhere around 100 million.  The expected cap is around 101 million.  You'd really have to move Roberson's 10 and the only way to do that would probably be to attach a draft pick.  Then you could probably move Patterson's small salary of about 5.5.  That'd give you some working room but that's a ton of things falling just right..... Still have the MLE and Bi-Annual exception, maybe.  Someone would need to check.  If you don't move those contracts then you could always get the luxury tax payer's exception.  Idk.  If I'm George's agency, I tell him to get the fuck out of Dodge, it doesn't look good next season and then you have Westbrook hit 30 making 38 mill and still have Adams making 25 million in 2020.  With his 30 millionish, there's your big 3.  93 million spoken for and maybe 107 million cap in 2020???  That would be moving Roberson's 10.5 million off the books somehow.

 

Yeah. Nothing can be done about next year and moving picks would just make a rebuild worse. I just realized I was more optimistic because I was looking at the luxury tax line and not the cap. Next year the best play is really to tank and hope for a generational draft pick again.