Texas High School Football - what will happen this Fall?

[Dnaguy 12723]

 

3 hours ago, chesthair said:

My kids have been practicing/working out in a fairly large group since March (wrestling).  They have also traveled to 3 out of state tournaments with 100's of kids and 1000's of spectators.  zero deaths and zero + tests as a result.  We are a large 6A school and today is the 2nd day, in person, that they have been back in school  They said in their classes there was an average of 2 kids "virtual", the rest were in class.  

 

Avatar is about on point as I've ever seen.

 

2 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

Same as it ever was. The game is football. People have always died playing it. 
 

Remember that. 

IDGAF is a hard position to argue against.

I appreciate your honesty.

 

[Dennis Taylor 19383]

not Texas, but this guy is a PA representative and a high school coach. he makes some pretty good points. 

 

  

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

 

 

IDGAF is a hard position to argue against.

 

so is "Life shall not continue until we are death free."

Edited August 13, 2020 by slorch

[Tex Pete 21516]

36 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

IDGAF is a hard position to argue against.

I appreciate your honesty.

 

I absolutely care, I just recognize reality.

You can mitigate risk in life, you can't eliminate it. You may wear a helmet everywhere you go. I realize that's completely unrealistic. The virus is going to work itself through our population over time no matter what we choose to do. We can't delay the inevitable forever. Mitigate the risks.

[Dnaguy 12723]

23 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I absolutely care, I just recognize reality.

You can mitigate risk in life, you can't eliminate it. You may wear a helmet everywhere you go. I realize that's completely unrealistic. The virus is going to work itself through our population over time no matter what we choose to do. We can't delay the inevitable forever. Mitigate the risks.

Playing football isn't mitigating any risk.

I've dealt with mitigating risk my entire career.

A nice graphical representation is the 'Hierarchy of Control':

We've only added PPE and Administrative controls to football. There is no technology (engineering controls) that can stop the spread. We haven't changed the game (substation) to the point that people don't come in contact with one another. And we're still playing it so we haven't eliminated the hazard.

 

Next look at the risk matrix:

 

What is the likelihood that someone will get COVID.

I would say 5 as there are already football teams with it now.

Now if they do have it, what is their likelihood of it being very bad? I would say negligible to minor. So let's be conservative. Minor.

That puts you in a high risk category right there. But if you're not conservative you're at 'moderate'.

Let's say you are going to say you want to look at it as a pair. As far as deaths go, they are rare. But that's catastrophic. Well even there you're in a moderate risk category.

In industry, you've be required to put in some engineering controls to prevent you from ever getting there.

Increased testing does not meet that requirement. All you have is administrative controls and PPE. That doesn't cut it.

AND high school football isn't even requiring it!

That's just at the collegiate level.

So by all metrics here, we're failing our students and failing ourselves by playing the game.

[The_highest_of_fives 681]

1 hour ago, Tex Pete said:

I absolutely care, I just recognize reality.

You can mitigate risk in life, you can't eliminate it. You may wear a helmet everywhere you go. I realize that's completely unrealistic. The virus is going to work itself through our population over time no matter what we choose to do. We can't delay the inevitable forever. Mitigate the risks.

this..  we need to learn how to deal with this new reality because Covid is never going away.  

[Tex Pete 21516]

53 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

Playing football isn't mitigating any risk.

I've dealt with mitigating risk my entire career.

A nice graphical representation is the 'Hierarchy of Control':

We've only added PPE and Administrative controls to football. There is no technology (engineering controls) that can stop the spread. We haven't changed the game (substation) to the point that people don't come in contact with one another. And we're still playing it so we haven't eliminated the hazard.

 

That's cute and all, but the entirety of the UIL is proceeding against your wishes.

[Dnaguy 12723]

21 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

That's cute and all, but the entirety of the UIL is proceeding against your wishes.

 

[Tex Pete 21516]

1 minute ago, Dnaguy said:

 

You're not proving any point. The UIL can stop the season at any point if the situation warrants it. Meanwhile, programs all over the state are practicing and scrimmaging as we speak.

[Dnaguy 12723]

3 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

You're not proving any point. The UIL can stop the season at any point if the situation warrants it. Meanwhile, programs all over the state are practicing and scrimmaging as we speak.

I agree that they can stop it as the situation warrants. My point is that we've taken a risk with the health of thousands of children for .... exactly what?

For the chance to play a game......

A game where 99.9% (well I actually don't know the stat) will never play at any higher of a level. 

I just don't believe that allowing practices is a good idea with the level of testing being what it is, the lag in symptoms to transmissibility, and with the fact that there's asymptomatic  spread 

I know I can't affect their decision. I just hope and pray that nobody is seriously harmed.

We are all on the same page there.

[Dennis Taylor 19383]

a couple of you guys must have been real hoots at parties that you don't get invited to anymore  

[Tex Pete 21516]

8 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I agree that they can stop it as the situation warrants. My point is that we've taken a risk with the health of thousands of children for .... exactly what?

For the chance to play a game......

Except the risk to thousands of children is next to nil. That's kind of the point. The risk of death from a head injury, heat-related issues, or an undiagnosed heart condition is likely greater than that of the virus, and the players will be monitored more closely than ever.

 

[Longhorn94 2502]

i have a senior and freshman at LT. i still dont know what we are going to do. my gut tells me that its absolutely insane to even consider playing football but its my son's senior year and my other son's first season at LT. ugh... 

[Tex Pete 21516]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

i have a senior and freshman at LT. i still dont know what we are going to do. my gut tells me that its absolutely insane to even consider playing football

But why? What do you think is going to happen?

It would be different if we were talking about 70 year olds playing.

[Guest Lobo]

21 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Except the risk to thousands of children is next to nil. That's kind of the point. The risk of death from a head injury, heat-related issues, or an undiagnosed heart condition is likely greater than that of the virus, and the players will be monitored more closely than ever.

 

Seems like organized-sports aged kids can obtain/transmit the virus just fine:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html

I think the on-field risk is probably not as severe as we once worried, but some children aged 10-19 may come into contact with people other than the opposing team during the course of a school-week.  

Also, head injuries and heat-related issues, while quite serious for young athletes...have been ruled to be non-contagious.  You're not put at additional risk for those things by coming into contact with family, fans, coaches, staff, other students, et. al.  A mitigating step to prevent a couple of players on a team from getting head trauma is not to remove fans from stadiums.  

[CooterBrown 18289]

I absolutely care, I just recognize reality.
You can mitigate risk in life, you can't eliminate it. You may wear a helmet everywhere you go. I realize that's completely unrealistic. The virus is going to work itself through our population over time no matter what we choose to do. We can't delay the inevitable forever. Mitigate the risks.

Your argument is the same as the argument about not wearing a mask. It’s not about protect you (the player). It’s about protecting the vulnerable population you inevitably have contact with.

Crying like a titty baby to play a fucking game, that will surely cause collateral damage among innocent family members, is selfish.

But go ahead relive your 4th quarter garbage time playing days through high school ball. You probably won’t even have to worry about knowing any of those your sweaty teen sport obsession, kills.

[Longhorn94 2502]

10 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

But why? What do you think is going to happen?

It would be different if we were talking about 70 year olds playing.

I am concerned my sons will get sick from Covid 19 and i made a stupid decision to expose them to an unnecessary risk to play a game. my nightmare is one of my boys getting it, and for whatever reason, they arent able to just shake it off, they wind up in the hospital, alone, scared, sick, and I cant be there to help them. or what if one of them get it and transmit it to me or my wife? and one of us goes through my nightmare? not only would that suck for one of us, but how would you feel if you were that child? so yeah i think the choice is more complicated than you are making it out to be.

[Tex Pete 21516]

40 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Your argument is the same as the argument about not wearing a mask. It’s not about protect you (the player). It’s about protecting the vulnerable population you inevitably have contact with.

Crying like a titty baby to play a fucking game, that will surely cause collateral damage among innocent family members, is selfish.

I am not crying about anything, not demanding anything, and have no say in any matters regarding the NCAA or UIL. I am also not saying there is no risk, nor have I claimed the virus is a "nothingburger" or anything similar. I am saying there is almost no risk to HS or college FB players. Of course there is risk to some of their family members, as there is if they merely go to school, catch the virus, and take it home. Playing football means players will most likely circulate LESS with people who are not playing football.

Maybe read what I actually post. I have said literally nothing about wearing a mask, and I have urged no one to play a game.

[Tex Pete 21516]

44 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

I am concerned my sons will get sick from Covid 19 and i made a stupid decision to expose them to an unnecessary risk to play a game. my nightmare is one of my boys getting it, and for whatever reason, they arent able to just shake it off, they wind up in the hospital, alone, scared, sick, and I cant be there to help them. or what if one of them get it and transmit it to me or my wife? and one of us goes through my nightmare?

You're their parent. What you choose for your child is your family's business and no one else's.

[Nivek 17425]

47 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

I am concerned my sons will get sick from Covid 19 and i made a stupid decision to expose them to an unnecessary risk to play a game. my nightmare is one of my boys getting it, and for whatever reason, they arent able to just shake it off, they wind up in the hospital, alone, scared, sick, and I cant be there to help them. or what if one of them get it and transmit it to me or my wife? and one of us goes through my nightmare? not only would that suck for one of us, but how would you feel if you were that child? so yeah i think the choice is more complicated than you are making it out to be.

but besides that Ms. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

[Dnaguy 12723]

9 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

You're their parent. What you choose for your child is your family's business and no one else's.

That's not how pandemics work

[TreatyOak 17414]

1 hour ago, Longhorn94 said:

i have a senior and freshman at LT. i still dont know what we are going to do. my gut tells me that its absolutely insane to even consider playing football but its my son's senior year and my other son's first season at LT. ugh... 

We're a Westlake family here. I hate thinking that the season will be lost for your son. Sending good thoughts to you, your family and the LT community, of which we have many dear friends. 

This sucks so much.

[Ignatius 4150]

25 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

You're their parent. What you choose for your child is your family's business and no one else's.

Doesn’t posting about it on the internet make it other peoples’ business?

[Tex Pete 21516]

5 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

Doesn’t posting about it on the internet make it other peoples’ business?

I just mean as to whether his kids play or not.

And yes, @Dnaguy, that's how this pandemic is working right now. Schools are practicing football as we speak. Kids whose parents are allowing them to do so are on fields across Texas. Time will tell what the impact of it is.

[Goodman 3283]

15 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I just mean as to whether his kids play or not.

And yes, @Dnaguy, that's how this pandemic is working right now. Schools are practicing football as we speak. Kids whose parents are allowing them to do so are on fields across Texas. Time will tell what the impact of it is.

Those are bad parents, should be socially shamed and dealt with by our local government. That'll show them what's best for their families.

[Longhorn94 2502]

5 minutes ago, Goodman said:

Those are bad parents, should be socially shamed and dealt with by our local government. That'll show them what's best for their families.

not sure if serious.gif... 

 

 

[DougO 5268]

There are probably a lot more government officials that should be socially shamed and dealt with by parents.

[bad_teammate 13567]

7 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

not Texas, but this guy is a PA representative and a high school coach. he makes some pretty good points. 

 

  

 

If you get a neck injury on the football field you don't spread it to Susan in math class who then spreads it to her mother with an auto-immune disorder.

[Tex Pete 21516]

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

If you get a neck injury on the football field you don't spread it to Susan in math class who then spreads it to her mother with an auto-immune disorder.

Absolutely true, which is why schools will be testing players. 

[bad_teammate 13567]

2 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Absolutely true, which is why schools will be testing players. 

I'm supposed to believe that the high schools, middle schools, and junior highs across the state will be constantly testing football players?

Because that's absurd.

[dcbc 14645]

5 hours ago, Longhorn94 said:

i have a senior and freshman at LT. i still dont know what we are going to do. my gut tells me that its absolutely insane to even consider playing football but its my son's senior year and my other son's first season at LT. ugh... 

We have a freshman and were going to go online for the first six weeks to let them prove they could keep them safe in the classroom, but the carrot was that we were going to let him play football.  I'm not saying that was the safest decision, but we wanted to give the kid something.  Well, it worked itself out.  The counselor called and told us Freshman football conflicted with debate.  His true favorite sport is arguing.  So he's now running cross country. 

[Tex Pete 21516]

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/article244937422.html

A Denton Guyer High School cross-country runner died Thursday morning after he finished a run in a park,

 Denton police said.

Guyer High student Dylan Dorrell, 17, died after a work-out with the cross-country team, school officials said.

“We ask that you please keep Dylan’s family in your hearts and minds as they struggle with his loss,” said Guyer High School principal Dr. Shaun Perry in a Thursday statement released by the Denton Independent School District.

[Fletch 5817]

12 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

I absolutely care, I just recognize reality.

You can mitigate risk in life, you can't eliminate it. You may wear a helmet everywhere you go. I realize that's completely unrealistic. The virus is going to work itself through our population over time no matter what we choose to do. We can't delay the inevitable forever. Mitigate the risks.

This is amazing. You know there’s vaccines in stage 3 of testing, right? Am on texags or something cause Jesus Christ y’all. Eh whatever. I hope they play but Jesus really playing with fire there  

[Goodman 3283]

15 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

If you get a neck injury on the football field you don't spread it to Susan in math class who then spreads it to her mother with an auto-immune disorder.

What if that player has the flu? The government should step in and end all sports, for safety & the kids of course.

[orange dream 1303]

Having a son who is a Senior football player who will not play college football I am clearly biased toward having a football season.  I don't care if it is this Fall or next Spring.  I would like to see he and his teammates have the opportunity to have a last chance to do something they work hard toward all year long and truly love.  Certainly there is more risk to practicing / playing than if we all remained locked down in our houses until there was a widely available vaccine.  That can be said about almost every single thing in life. How we define both "more" and "risk" is open to significant debate.  None of which will be fully defined for months (maybe years).  If schools are going to be open (they are) then the teams should be able to play (following protocols) as long as they have enough people to voluntarily field a team.  If someone decides that the definition of "more" or "risk" is too much for them they should choose not to play without being judged.  If someone decides to play, while following protocols, good for them and they should have the opportunity to do so without being judged also.  I'm not a "mah freedoms" guy by any means, I wear a mask every time I'm out of the house, made the decision to keep my offices closed (work from home) , avoid church and other public gatherings and encourage others to do the same.  I know this is "real" but also recognize that we have a much better understanding of what this is (highly contagious, but not necessarily hardy, statistically more "dangerous" to well-defined groups, etc.)  With that knowledge we can make more informed decisions now than we could 5 or 6 months ago.  Some may choose to stay home, stay safe while others can choose to resume significant portions of life, while following protocols, judging that the risks involved are worth it.  Both positions are ok and neither really has to be seen as a threat or inherently irresponsible.

 

 

[Tex Pete 21516]

1 minute ago, orange dream said:

Having a son who is a Senior football player who will not play college football I am clearly biased toward having a football season.  I don't care if it is this Fall or next Spring.  I would like to see he and his teammates have the opportunity to have a last chance to do something they work hard toward all year long and truly love.  Certainly there is more risk to practicing / playing than if we all remained locked down in our houses until there was a widely available vaccine.  That can be said about almost every single thing in life.

... With that knowledge we can make more informed decisions now than we could 5 or 6 months ago.  Some may choose to stay home, stay safe while others can choose to resume significant portions of life, while following protocols, judging that the risks involved are worth it.  Both positions are ok and neither really has to be seen as a threat or inherently irresponsible.

You're his parent. It's your business.

The same can be said about parents who let or don't let their kids play over concussion risks.

[bad_teammate 13567]

1 minute ago, Goodman said:

What if that player has the flu? The government should step in and end all sports, for safety & the kids of course.

I was just pointing out that the coach's argument in that video made no sense because the safety issues players traditionally face are individual and not transmissable.

If Susan's mom is immunocompromised and she is legally required to be in a classroom with Johnny Football, I find that to be a more unacceptable government intervention than telling Johnny he can't play a ball game paid for and sponsored by the state/taxpayers.

The situation sucks, for sure, but sometimes life is hard.

[Goodman 3283]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I was just pointing out that the coach's argument in that video made no sense because the safety issues players traditionally face are individual and not transmissable.

If Susan's mom is immunocompromised and she is legally required to be in a classroom with Johnny Football, I find that to be a more unacceptable government intervention than telling Johnny he can't play a ball game paid for and sponsored by the state/taxpayers.

The situation sucks, for sure, but sometimes life is hard.

Life is hard? Are you kidding. Life is a fucking beating which is why denying the country the right to live as they see it best for their families, within the structure of our basic rule of law is criminal by these "elected" officials.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Goodman

[Dennis Taylor 19383]

35 minutes ago, Goodman said:

What if that player has the flu? The government should step in and end all sports, for safety & the kids of course.

[David Dennison 19569]

39 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

You're his parent. It's your business.

The same can be said about parents who let or don't let their kids play over concussion risks.

You're right. It is his business. It's also our business insofar as society ultimately bears a portion of the cost of individual decisions.

[Tex Pete 21516]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You're right. It is his business. It's also our business insofar as society ultimately bears a portion of the cost of individual decisions.

Cool. At this point it has been decided by the UIL that the season will go on. You don't have a say in his individual decisions.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

is this another one of those topics where people who haven't watched or followed a second of it, who could not have given a single fuck about it before March, now suddenly have STORNG OPINIONS!!!! that need to be expressed?

Edited August 14, 2020 by SwanderedTalent

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

"Man, we were really making progress on COVID, we almost had it under control, until they played high school football that fall"

[Goodman 3283]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You're right. It is his business. It's also our business insofar as society ultimately bears a portion of the cost of individual decisions.

Now that you've stated an obvious rule of life we all are raised on, what is your point? 

[David Dennison 19569]

15 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

Cool. At this point it has been decided by the UIL that the season will go on. You don't have a say in his individual decisions.

But it is my business.

[Dennis Taylor 19383]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

But it is my business.

slither your way back where you belong  

[orange dream 1303]

26 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

"Man, we were really making progress on COVID, we almost had it under control, until they played high school football that fall"

So you think that the inflection point of the COVID trend will be the advent of football season? (My sarcasm meter might be broken)  Not, school opening or other changes coming in the Fall.  Will be interesting to see how the infection rates play out in the 1-4A schools who start September 1st versus the 5A-6A schools starting a month later.  Also what happens in high school football playing states versus states that have cancelled or deferred (California, Minnesota, Colorado).  I think deferring is not a bad choice but will be curious to see the impact it actually has.

15 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

But it is my business.

So is whether someone eats in a restaurant or cooks at home, wears a neck gaiter mask vs. an N-95, has groceries delivered vs. shopping in the store or gets a haircut vs. letting it go. Now if you are a football coach I will grant that it is your business.   If I misunderstood your point please re-state it.

Edited August 14, 2020 by orange dream

[jinx 2636]

18 hours ago, Ignatius said:

Doesn’t posting about it on the internet make it other peoples’ business?

Well, if I'M here and YOU'RE here, doesn't that make this OUR time?

[David Dennison 19569]

1 minute ago, jinx said:

Well, if I'M here and YOU'RE here, doesn't that make this OUR time?

You dick!

[jinx 2636]

1 hour ago, orange dream said:

Having a son who is a Senior football player who will not play college football I am clearly biased toward having a football season.  I don't care if it is this Fall or next Spring.  I would like to see he and his teammates have the opportunity to have a last chance to do something they work hard toward all year long and truly love.  Certainly there is more risk to practicing / playing than if we all remained locked down in our houses until there was a widely available vaccine.  That can be said about almost every single thing in life. How we define both "more" and "risk" is open to significant debate.  None of which will be fully defined for months (maybe years).  If schools are going to be open (they are) then the teams should be able to play (following protocols) as long as they have enough people to voluntarily field a team.  If someone decides that the definition of "more" or "risk" is too much for them they should choose not to play without being judged.  If someone decides to play, while following protocols, good for them and they should have the opportunity to do so without being judged also.  I'm not a "mah freedoms" guy by any means, I wear a mask every time I'm out of the house, made the decision to keep my offices closed (work from home) , avoid church and other public gatherings and encourage others to do the same.  I know this is "real" but also recognize that we have a much better understanding of what this is (highly contagious, but not necessarily hardy, statistically more "dangerous" to well-defined groups, etc.)  With that knowledge we can make more informed decisions now than we could 5 or 6 months ago.  Some may choose to stay home, stay safe while others can choose to resume significant portions of life, while following protocols, judging that the risks involved are worth it.  Both positions are ok and neither really has to be seen as a threat or inherently irresponsible.

 

 

Same but different, in that both of my high schoolers are girls.  But my senior is the cheer captain and their team that went 0-10 2 years ago went 8-1 last year and made the playoffs for the first time in a decade.