Help with home networking

[Hornin04 262]

tl:dr : My industrial-grade router broke and now what do I do?

I bought a home a year and a half ago from a guy who founded some tech startup company and was pretty tech-savvy.  He had the whole house hard wired with ethernet ports and a combo firewall/router hooked up to 5 different wireless access points throughout the home.  The router is a ZyXel USG210.  The WAPs are all ZyXel WAC6103D-I units.  Plugged into the router were two switches, one being a 24 port Netgear and another being a 48 port ZyXel switch. These switches run cables to all of the hard-wired Sonos Amps (9 of them), hard-wired ethernet ports, and other connected devices throughout the home.

Yesterday the router crapped out.  The power lights won't come on, and I verified the plug works with other hardware.  All of the access points are still functional, so my devices can see the wifi but can't obtain an IP address.  I thought maybe it was just the lights on the box not working and it still had power, but I can't access the router via it's IP address when I connect to the wifi.

Now this router is more than any house needs, in my opinion.  The company's website shows it being used for large businesses where tons of people are expected to be connected to the network at once.  To buy a new one it's north of $600.  Each of the wireless access points also run anywhere from $150-300.  So we're talking about an expensive, overkill set-up here.  

If the router is indeed dead, I'm wondering if I try to replace it with the same kind (again, north of $600), or just get something more user friendly like the various mesh wifi routers out there such as Nest Wifi, Eero, etc.  I am not sure if I would be able to connect the two switches and their 72 ethernet ports to one of these though.  Anyone know if this will work well?  I noticed the Nest Wifi and Eero, for example, only have 2 ports, one for the modem and one other that could connect to a switch.

For a set-up like this, what router is recommended?  I have a home that needs 3 levels as well as outside coverage. When this router was functioning I could get wifi in my front yard, back yard, and every level of the house without issue, which was nice.

All of the wireless access points are connected via cat-5 cables plugged into the walls for this system, and from what I understand the new mesh networks don't need to be hard-wired.  I realize that the system I have in my home is overkill, but will these mass-marketed home systems work just as well?  

Any feedback would be appreciated.  I was pretty computer savvy and nerdy back in my UT days but have lost some of that in my older age, so I can tinker with this stuff but easily get lost in the weeds.  User-friendliness is important to me.

[TwiceHorn 31987]

You are conflating wifi with router.  Most of us have a combo router/wifi access point.  Yours is all "components" to use the hifi analogy.  Your router hardware is separated from your wifi hardware.

Because you have the wireless access points, you don't need another wifi router, you just need a router router.  Any old thing will do.   Sounds like you don't even need many ports since you have the switches.  So a decent four-port non-wireless router would do.  Configure it to connect to your ISP and DHCP some non-routable addresses and you're done.  Or better yet, but slightly more involved, use static non-routable IPs for the WAPs and the Sonos devices (may need to do this anyway). Should cost a hundred bucks or so.

I'd keep the hardwired WAPs over even a mesh system.

Now, if your WAPs had crapped out, a mesh system would probably be the thing to do.

I am going to guess that even "home" wired routers are more reliable than a pretty good (expensive) wifi router, but don't know the current state of things.

I kind of consider it a waste to essentially toss those high-action WAPs, which is what you'd be doing with a wifi router/mesh system.

Others may have better ideas.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Hornin04 262]

I guess you are right, I didn't think of it that way. The Zyxel router isn't a Wi-Fi router itself, it's just connected to the Wi-Fi access points. I have a linksys wrt1900ac router that I'm using now for temporary access. Could I plug the switches into this and use it for the whole house? It has at least 4 LAN ports. Would it function OK with a 24 and 48 port switch plugged in? Then there's the question of the zyxel WAPs working with this router, and figuring out how to configure them.

[TwiceHorn 31987]

I think you could.  Turn the wifi on the linksys off most likely.

I am assuming that the WAPs don't need a special router or anything.  If there is some "compatibility" required that could toss my advice into the shitter.

There may be some configuration things you have to do, but I am betting that it's a one-time thing.

[Hate 20232]

You'll more than likely need a "router" that supports POE ports for the access points.  Also, the router may not be as simple as plug and play.  It may take some networking and security knowledge to make sure it is set up correctly.  Unless you are really doing dome high level stuff and need the customized security, I would go ahead and replace the system with one of the mesh systems you mentioned. 

[TwiceHorn 31987]

9 minutes ago, Hate said:

You'll more than likely need a "router" that supports POE ports for the access points.  Also, the router may not be as simple as plug and play.  It may take some networking and security knowledge to make sure it is set up correctly.  Unless you are really doing dome high level stuff and need the customized security, I would go ahead and replace the system with one of the mesh systems you mentioned. 

Probably right.  My first instinct was not to waste that high-action stuff already in place, but he didn't pay for it per se.  Could probably sell it on craigslist or ebay for a tidy little sum.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10762]

Zytel equipment is designed (much like UniFi) to work together for simpler single app management.  Replacing the router will take away that ability and could impact how well the other pieces will work or are managed. Zytel has 5yr warranty on their equipment unfortunately only for original purchaser as that router is not that old. 

It's pretty rare for a router to fully quit so soon like that. I would try and replace the power supply for the router first as they tend to go out much more often before replacing the unit at which time I would do as others have suggested and swap to more "home" friendly versions since they will require less knowledge.

[crash_davis 23465]

Depends on where the router and network gear is located. May be heat and/or dust issues. That will quickly crap out electronics.

 

[Hate 20232]

8 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

Depends on where the router and network gear is located. May be heat and/or dust issues. That will quickly crap out electronics.

 

This is true as well.  I would think,given the knowledge of the original owner, that he would have put the equipment in a properly cooled and dust free environment though. 

[Hornin04 262]

The ZyXel switch has PoE http://www.zyxelguard.com/GS1920-48HP.asp?utm_term=zyxel gs1920-48hp&utm_campaign=ZyXEL+*191&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_tgt=kwd-322831817023&hsa_grp=43413717820&hsa_src=g&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_mt=e&hsa_ver=3&hsa_ad=200754891280&hsa_acc=9041622380&hsa_kw=zyxel gs1920-48hp&hsa_cam=7692789&gclid=CjwKCAjwrvv3BRAJEiwAhwOdM8_5zb01b7NNTszbZuAiwS0sjJiuybcpgXu0rbT-uMd1Sy5-zD8CdxoCv8oQAvD_BwE

 

I tested the power supply - it has its own light which is functioning, and I also plugged it into my other router which worked fine.

As for switching to mesh, I thought the whole point of mesh was for homes that don't have hard wiring like mine does.  When hard wiring is there I assumed that WAPs are a better option.

And all of the equipment is in a fancy tower rack.  A little dusty in there but not excessive.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Horny04

[Hornin04 262]

LOL so I just plugged both switches into my Linksys router and now my wifi access points are back up and running on the original network.  Didn't know it would be that easy.  So far even the peripherals with fixed IP addresses are all working too like the wifi controlled irrigation, etc.

I think I just got lucky but now I have to make sure this continues to function.  I guess I always assumed the USG210 router was running the show including the wifi, but the way I see it is that it is just distributing the internet to the wireless access points that function together but independently to give wifi to the whole house.  Right?

Question - should I turn off the Linksys' own wifi channel now that all the original WAPs are back up and working? No sense in having that on, right?

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by Horny04

[TwiceHorn 31987]

5 minutes ago, Horny04 said:

LOL so I just plugged both switches into my Linksys router and now my wifi access points are back up and running on the original network.  Didn't know it would be that easy.  So far even the peripherals with fixed IP addresses are all working too like the wifi controlled irrigation, etc.

I think I just got lucky but now I have to make sure this continues to function.  I guess I always assumed the USG210 router was running the show including the wifi, but the way I see it is that it is just distributing the internet to the wireless access points that function together but independently to give wifi to the whole house.  Right?

Question - should I turn off the Linksys' own wifi channel now that all the original WAPs are back up and working? No sense in having that on, right?

 

Probably yes on the Linksys wifi.  And yeah, that was my guess on the topography of your network, but as others pointed out it could have been and maybe still is more complex.

You may want to go in and reserve the static IPs in the Linksys software to avoid that becoming an issue down the line (giving away a fixed IP via DHCP to a client).

[immamac 44199]

Now that everything is working it's probably worth having someone come get a topology of your house so that you can properly document everything. When you sell the house or if someone ever needs to replace things it's going to be a massive help. 

[Dahobbs 18190]

19 hours ago, Horny04 said:

LOL so I just plugged both switches into my Linksys router and now my wifi access points are back up and running on the original network.  Didn't know it would be that easy.  So far even the peripherals with fixed IP addresses are all working too like the wifi controlled irrigation, etc.

I think I just got lucky but now I have to make sure this continues to function.  I guess I always assumed the USG210 router was running the show including the wifi, but the way I see it is that it is just distributing the internet to the wireless access points that function together but independently to give wifi to the whole house.  Right?

Question - should I turn off the Linksys' own wifi channel now that all the original WAPs are back up and working? No sense in having that on, right?

 

Yes, turn the Linksys wifi off. It can only cause problems. Your description of the USG210's function is somewhat correct, but it also has a lot of features it sounds like you weren't really using.  What are you doing with the nonfunctional unit now? 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Hornin04 262]

It seems like a paperweight to me.  Is it fixable/salvageable?

[Irish Wrist Watch 1470]

I use a basic TP Link $30 router (two antennas). I can download stuff at up to 5 or 10mps. Download speeds are usually restricted, not by my router, but by the server the file is on. If there is a downside, file transfers between computers is limited to about 2mps (usually 1.5 or less). If I hook one computer directly to a router, the speed doubles.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Irish Wrist Watch

[Hornin04 262]

I'm back and I need some suggestions from those who are nerdier than I.

I did end up getting a new Zyxel USG210 shipped to me for free from the company because it did indeed crap out. I had a professional come over and re-do the whole network.  Unfortunately, one access point died that was outside.  And now some of the access points aren't working well.  Zyxel doesn't want to help me with the access points - they said that these were actually loaners that the previous home owner never returned to them?!  

I think I want to switch the entire network out for newer, better and more user-friendly options that I can learn to manage on my own.  There's absolutely nothing out there on YouTube or Google that gives good how-to help for Zyxel products.  I'm thinking something like Ubiquiti will offer similar functionality and reliability but with a UI that I can learn to troubleshoot without paying $$$ to a professional to help with.  I realize that I'm going to have to invest a nice chunk of cash to do this, so I want to choose wisely.  

I need 4 WAPs and a router that work well together.  1 extra WAP that can live outdoors.  

Do I need wifi 6?  I realize that there are also different types of wifi 6.

Will the Cat 5 cables that exist be good enough for newer WAPs?  I'm not planning on rewiring to Cat 6.  

Does any brand provide really good internet monitoring/restrictions etc to keep my kids away from porn and other bad stuff? (wife keeps hounding me to install a Disney Circle but I have heard those things can really fuck up a network)

I think Ubiquiti is the answer but they have lots of different models out there.  I saw that they make some outdoor access points as well - wondering if I need one of these, or just buy 5 of the same kind and hope the outdoor one survives outdoors (it would sit in a mostly water-proof box but would be exposed to the frigid winters of New England, unless I unplugged it every fall and brought it in until spring, which I could do because it services the pool area primarily.

So basically give me a good router/wireless access point set up, with one access point being for outdoors.  

[hornbri 1504]

Since you are switching it up could you just go with something like a Mesh network? My Eero’s can each be hard wired to the same network and broadcast the same wireless network. The software is super easy to use. 

I also have one sitting outside in Austin, it is covered from the rain but has dealt with the Texas heat just fine.