Hi Fi and Home theater set ups

[TwiceHorn 32058]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd be shocked.

EDIT:  besides, a phono preamp is necessary because it imposes a very specific EQ curve on the signal (RIAA curve).  Running a phono into a "sufficiently" powerful preamp w/o RIAA EQ would end up with a sound that most closely resembles ass.

I gave him that idea, my bad.  I thought a phono stage was mostly to get a very small signal to line level.  Obviously not (well that, and now I know some other stuff).

Edited December 28, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[jimmyjazz 47098]

Yeah, the RIAA curve allows (among other things) the groove width to be reduced by diminishing LF signal when the LP is printed, and then the inverse EQ is applied to boost those low frequencies back up to "normal" on playback.  The result is more info on a side of vinyl, with less demand on the tracking accuracy of the needle/tonearm.  If the turntable isn't run through a proper phono preamp, the resulting sound would be very shy on the low end.

[tbone_ 14438]

You know what else closely resembled ass?

When me and my buddies would plug our guitars into the recording in of my dads tape deck, turn tape monitor on and the level to 10, so it would sound like distortion because we didn’t have amps.

That usually went over well when we got busted.

[TexPx 2331]

i get that there's a world of tube amp where people can swap the tubes and get a warm tone and such.  but apparently there's tube phono pre-amps as well?
 
This is the Pro-ject Tube Box S2.  Curious how it will sound in the demo room.  Will target tho the Phono Box S2 or S2 Ultra..whichever makes sense with the setup.

 
What accessories do you recommend for a starter kit? wipers and cleaners and weights and etc?
 

Just get the Phono Box S2. Simple, well built, affordable and sounds great. Also can be used with MM or MC. I’ve had the S in my main system for a few years and have no complaints.

[VABuckeye 2481]

Had a phono box with my last system. I agree. Great $99 product. 

[TwiceHorn 32058]

On 12/27/2021 at 7:49 PM, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, the RIAA curve allows (among other things) the groove width to be reduced by diminishing LF signal when the LP is printed, and then the inverse EQ is applied to boost those low frequencies back up to "normal" on playback.  The result is more info on a side of vinyl, with less demand on the tracking accuracy of the needle/tonearm.  If the turntable isn't run through a proper phono preamp, the resulting sound would be very shy on the low end.

That was kind of a fascinating rabbit hole.  Despite knowing that records are "cut" using essentially the reverse of the way they are played back, I never really considered the interplay between the two.

[nedtugent 28]

On 2/9/2021 at 9:48 AM, Chad Fuck said:

Went to digging around the innerwebz because of this thread.  Here's my current set up:

NAD 2200 + 1155

NAD 4150 Tuner

California Audio Labs Dx-1

Rega Planar 2 

Epos ES 11 speakers

 

 

I steered many a budget audiophile to NAD BITD.........

- LFS

and Boston Acoustics.

 

 

[nedtugent 28]

... and that fancy schmancy high $$$$ tube gear - sounds sweet - literally - but no tiene mucho poder.

I can still see the look on the salesman's face as his $5k Jadis tube amp kept clipping - and most hideously - to some Dire Straits way back when.

- LFS

 

[jimmyjazz 47098]

Well, high voltage tube amps have a place in the high end world . . . driving large electrostatic panels, all things voiced correctly (which is rare).

[nedtugent 28]

On 8/27/2021 at 9:30 AM, LFS said:

random question: anyone else ever own the carver pre-amp w/ sonic holography??

very late 80's / early 90's.

worked surprisingly well on some recordings.

all my old gear was 'standard fare' adcom, nakamichi, sony es, snell acoustics, etc.

 

 

I see u Brotha - I just can't reach you.

- LFS

Back to nedtugent - the pre-hejira username.

 

 

 

[TexPx 2331]

I steered many a budget audiophile to NAD BITD.........
- LFS
and Boston Acoustics.
 
 

Always thought NAD was solid. Good looks too.


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[jimmyjazz 47098]

Anybody need a mint 3-channel beast of a power amp?  B&K 1430.  Surly discount applies, especially if I don't have to ship from central Texas.

[nedtugent 28]

... and those thorens and rega turntables were great buys - nice to see them still around.

and another memory of some uptown dallas audio purveyor wincing as his sota sapphire and whatever high $$$$$ tonearm / stylus failed to track - not even remotely - a Japanese pressing of Good Vibrations.

also BITD.

and score one for the Beach Boys.

 

[52-80 19377]

Stopped by the Project HQ which was  out in the sticks.  They had a really fancy museum-style setup with lots of goods, and a cool listening room except.....very few of the goods were actually hooked up.  It was meant more for show than demo and sales.

Actually none of the items were saleable.  The first few days of the year they were doing inventory count.  The guy there proactively offered me a discount (against policy as they dont compete with their distributors/partners)... but I'd have to come back later.

They all personally owned and recommended the Tube Box S2.  As I couldnt listen to it myself, will buy instead the discrete Phono Box S2 Ultra from a different retailer.

 

Also looked into Cambridge, Rega, NAD, etc.  Most/all were based in UK, but obscured manufacturing origins (likely China) so skipped out on those.

 

 

 

[jimmyjazz 47098]

8 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Also looked into Cambridge, Rega, NAD, etc.  Most/all were based in UK, but obscured manufacturing origins (likely China) so skipped out on those.

My experience with all 3 brands has been extremely positive, most especially Cambridge Audio.

[nedtugent 28]

On 1/4/2022 at 3:22 PM, jimmyjazz said:

My experience with all 3 brands has been extremely positive, most especially Cambridge Audio.

adcom ads and harmon kardon were also 'good buys' BITD.

- the erstwhile audiophile

 

 

[stc 1500]

1962 Stromberg Carlson console. Controls were getting scratchy so I'm cleaning it today...good time for some pics. Original amp and speakers, still sounds great. Replaced the turntable with an Acoustic Research XA that fit perfectly.

[TexPx 2331]

1962 Stromberg Carlson console. Controls were getting scratchy so I'm cleaning it today...good time for some pics. Original amp and speakers, still sounds great. Replaced the turntable with an Acoustic Research XA that fit perfectly.

What tonearm on the XA?


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[stc 1500]

24 minutes ago, TexPx said:

What tonearm on the XA?


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that's the original AR tonearm with a new headshell and pickering xsv-3000 cartridge. 

[tbone_ 14438]

That’s bad ass. What’s something like that whack you for these days?

[TexPx 2331]

that's the original AR tonearm with a new headshell and pickering xsv-3000 cartridge. 

Knew the head shell was different but the socket connector is different than mine so I thought maybe it was the Technics tonearm wand replacement some people do. Love my AR.

[stc 1500]

That’s bad ass. What’s something like that whack you for these days?

Bought it a decade ago from an old man in Wimberley for $100. Picked up the turntable around the same time for $250 I think. Put a fair amount of time into cleaning it up and replacing some tubes and transistors. The old man wanted someone who would actually use it to listen to music and not gut it for some other project. Promised him I would give it the respect it deserves.

[nedtugent 28]

1 hour ago, TexPx said:

Knew the head shell was different but the socket connector is different than mine so I thought maybe it was the Technics tonearm wand replacement some people do. Love my AR.

henry kloss.......

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss

Edited March 25, 2022 by nedtugent

[TexPx 2331]

henry kloss.......
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss

Yeah, Edgar Villchur was the daddy of the turntable I think Kloss had already left to form KLH. I do like stuff with a history.

[Bogeywon 2548]

My U Turn turntable with the new system is awesome

[dcbc 14644]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:07 AM, Bogeywon said:

My U Turn turntable with the new system is awesome

Which one did you get, or if custom, which options?

[dcbc 14644]

On 3/25/2022 at 11:23 AM, stc said:

1962 Stromberg Carlson console. Controls were getting scratchy so I'm cleaning it today...good time for some pics. Original amp and speakers, still sounds great. Replaced the turntable with an Acoustic Research XA that fit perfectly.

 

Are the woofers 15s?  What kind of speakers?  The baskets look like they could be Rolas.

[stc 1500]

35 minutes ago, dcbc said:

 

Are the woofers 15s?  What kind of speakers?  The baskets look like they could be Rolas.

12's. they made their own speakers.

[dcbc 14644]

Really?  That's pretty unusual.  Do they have any numbers around the edge of the basket?

[dcbc 14644]

Final update on the Beautiful Monster.  After almost a year and a half of dealing with service/repair of all the components (save for the tuner, which I never use), I finally had to send my turntable to a Dual specialist in Iowa.  Full tear down rebuild with new tone arm bearings, which had failed.  It lives!

 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by dcbc

[Anton Chigurh 3335]

Just now finding this thread. Neat.

Checking in with a vintage setup for my turntable/music listening.


Marantz 2245 with a really nice original WC-22 wooden case (luckily found one several years ago before they absolutely exploded in value)

Technics 1200 MK2/Nagaoka MP200 (I got lucky and got the table for cheap, but it needed some work. I replaced the interconnects, disassembled the tonearm/VTA assembly to get that freed up and working, and had to massage the tonearm bearings a bit, but only have about $200 in it without the cart, and it’s been a tank)

Pioneer HPM-100 (with mids from the HPM-900)

Chromecast Audio for Spotify listening (wish they didn’t discontinue these, but there are rumors of a second gen, so hopefully that materializes)


Nothing super special but I certainly get a lot of enjoyment from it. I’d be the coolest kid on the block in 1978! I’ll upgrade the speakers at some point. Maybe to some modern B&Ws, not sure.

[dcbc 14644]

I got one of these to stream to my vintage gear.  It's been surprisingly good for the money.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XMRMK6F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Edited July 9, 2022 by dcbc

[jimmyjazz 47098]

3 hours ago, Anton Chigurh said:

Pioneer HPM-100

I'd like to hear those.  They were my dream speakers when I was in jr high, but I suspect they're pretty far behind the curve these days.  Still doesn't stop the nostalgia train.

[dcbc 14644]

Since we're talking speakers, here's a picture of on of the XR3s prior to getting the woofer refoamed.  They weigh about 60 pounds each.

 

[nycHorn 3123]

I have a Marantz 2252B with B&W DM602 s3 speakers.  I have a cheap DAC from Amazon ~$20 that has an optical out that I run into an older Apple TV so I can stream music to the Marantz.   Would a better DAC give me more depth or better soundstage?  I know streaming from Spotify is a crime, but where else could I improve to give my music a little more depth and clarity?

thanks.

[dcbc 14644]

8 minutes ago, nycHorn said:

I have a Marantz 2252B with B&W DM602 s3 speakers.  I have a cheap DAC from Amazon ~$20 that has an optical out that I run into an older Apple TV so I can stream music to the Marantz.   Would a better DAC give me more depth or better soundstage?  I know streaming from Spotify is a crime, but where else could I improve to give my music a little more depth and clarity?

thanks.

Sometime streaming is just easier.  The one I posted above has whatever the latest Aptx support is, which is important apparently.  It sounds great.  These older amps are great.  You just want to feed them something relatively clean unless you're one of those people who can hear the difference between a few 1s and 0s, at which point, there may be value in a better decoder and DAC.  But my phone streaming Spotify or Youtbe music to my old console sounds like the cat's ass.

Edited July 11, 2022 by dcbc

[TwiceHorn 32058]

20 minutes ago, nycHorn said:

I have a Marantz 2252B with B&W DM602 s3 speakers.  I have a cheap DAC from Amazon ~$20 that has an optical out that I run into an older Apple TV so I can stream music to the Marantz.   Would a better DAC give me more depth or better soundstage?  I know streaming from Spotify is a crime, but where else could I improve to give my music a little more depth and clarity?

thanks.

A good quality DAC can make a lot of difference, yes.

[hobbes2702 13421]

10 hours ago, dcbc said:

Since we're talking speakers, here's a picture of on of the XR3s prior to getting the woofer refoamed.  They weigh about 60 pounds each.

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by hobbes2702

[Sam Lin 3597]

1 hour ago, nycHorn said:

I have a Marantz 2252B with B&W DM602 s3 speakers.  I have a cheap DAC from Amazon ~$20 that has an optical out that I run into an older Apple TV so I can stream music to the Marantz.   Would a better DAC give me more depth or better soundstage?  I know streaming from Spotify is a crime, but where else could I improve to give my music a little more depth and clarity?

thanks.

Honestly, probably get more improvement improving the source material than any hardware changes. Try a trial subscription to Tidal and see if it has music you want.

[dcbc 14644]

15 minutes ago, Sam Lin said:

Honestly, probably get more improvement improving the source material than any hardware changes. Try a trial subscription to Tidal and see if it has music you want.

If you have space for digital music, compression matters less and quality, assuming a good master, improves.

Edited July 11, 2022 by dcbc

[jimmyjazz 47098]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

A good quality DAC can make a lot of difference, yes.

I'm not sure I understood his question -- is he streaming Spotify through the DAC or higher res files?  If the latter, I agree.  I'm not familiar enough with Spotify's sound quality to comment.

[nycHorn 3123]

I'm not sure I understood his question -- is he streaming Spotify through the DAC or higher res files?  If the latter, I agree.  I'm not familiar enough with Spotify's sound quality to comment.

Yeah I was initially asking if a DAC would help the quality in my setup which is streaming Spotify. I’m sure that’s where I’d see the most marked improvement (moving away from streaming) but if I wanted to stay streaming what else could I improve upon? Better speakers? A better DAC?

Going down the rabbit hole late last night, I found JBL L100 speakers and I think those things are so sexy looking.

[ohchaucer 1444]

Those JBLs are sweet. And I think the answer to your question (if I’m understanding it) is yes and yes. And upgraded DAC won’t hurt and I don’t think you need to invest huge dollars to have a big upgrade. But the closer you can get to lossless audio for streaming, the better. Best would be downloaded but I used to say I’d do that and 90% of the time I just stream from Tidal. And pay attention to your Bluetooth interface if you go that route. I don’t know as much about that but have to assume it’s a huge factor.

[jimmyjazz 47098]

1 hour ago, nycHorn said:

Yeah I was initially asking if a DAC would help the quality in my setup which is streaming Spotify. I’m sure that’s where I’d see the most marked improvement (moving away from streaming) but if I wanted to stay streaming what else could I improve upon? Better speakers? A better DAC?

Going down the rabbit hole late last night, I found JBL L100 speakers and I think those things are so sexy looking.

I'm not familiar with the JBL L100, so I can't comment there. They're $2,200 each?  If so, you're starting to get into rare air when it comes to most hifi systems.  I would be very careful about jumping on something just because they scratch the aesthetic itch (or whatever) at that price point.  You have to listen in person.  And, for sure a DAC and lossless source files are gonna help a lot.

Weren't your B&W speakers way less expensive?

If it were me, I'd seriously look at the Tidal option for lossless file streaming, along with a better DAC, which wouldn't need to cost more than a couple hundred $ or so.  Then start thinking about new speakers.  At that $4.5K/pair price point, there are an immense # of choices to be had.

[Anton Chigurh 3335]

The L100 were the consumer version of John B. Lansing’s original great design, the 4310 studio monitor. He later on he went to Pioneer to design the HPM-100.

The L100 Classic are just modern reproductions of them. They are pretty well loved.

[nycHorn 3123]

I'm not familiar with the JBL L100, so I can't comment there. They're $2,200 each?  If so, you're starting to get into rare air when it comes to most hifi systems.  I would be very careful about jumping on something just because they scratch the aesthetic itch (or whatever) at that price point.  You have to listen in person.  And, for sure a DAC and lossless source files are gonna help a lot.
Weren't your B&W speakers way less expensive?
If it were me, I'd seriously look at the Tidal option for lossless file streaming, along with a better DAC, which wouldn't need to cost more than a couple hundred $ or so.  Then start thinking about new speakers.  At that $4.5K/pair price point, there are an immense # of choices to be had.

Ok, I missed the “each” part of that. Jeesuussss. Yeah I don’t think I’ll be getting into those.
I think I’ll go the DAC and Tidal route and see how much more that will yield.

[nycHorn 3123]

Alright, I’ve been on Tidal for a week and it makes a difference on the stereo and headphones (obviously).

So if I was going to add a DAC, around $250, what are some good options? Opinions on Schiit? Cambridge Audio?

My latest speaker obsession is Wharfedale Linton.
https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/linton-heritage/
https://upscaleaudio.com/products/wharfdale-linton-bookshelf-loudspeaker-pair

[TwiceHorn 32058]

I think you can get seriously in the weeds on DACs, particularly with their pre and post-processing, some of which is probably brilliant stuff, for which you probably pay handsomely.

I think the fundamental difference is the chip itself.  Burr Brown units tend to be highly regarded and I have personal experience with one in an NAD receiver and it does make a "tangible" difference over say, PC or phone or portable digital media player audio, which have cheaper or on-board DACs.  ESS' units are also well-regarded and represented in hi-fi, I think "Sabre" is their hi-fi line.  Wolfson is another chip brand that tends to be highly regarded.

One example is Apple Mac audio, which is generally quite a bit better than your average PC audio, and a big part of that is that they spend more time and money on the DAC.  But, by most accounts, the Apple DAC still pales in comparison to a hi-fi or audiophile discrete DAC.

I've seen good reviews of this one, that I kind of noted because made in Austin and has an ESS chip and RCA outputs for your receiver/amp. https://www.amazon.com/Audioengine-D1-24-bit-Digital-to-Analog-Converter/dp/B006IPH5H2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1542694068&sr=8-8&keywords=Cyrus soundKey&tag=midinationus-20&geniuslink=true

I see the Cambridge Audio, always good stuff, uses a Wolfson.

Edited July 16, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[jimmyjazz 47098]

I have owned a ton of Cambridge Audio gear, and never been disappointed.  It's pretty much a fail-safe choice.  (Not familiar with their speakers.)

[CooterBrown 18287]

Alright, I’ve been on Tidal for a week and it makes a difference on the stereo and headphones (obviously).

So if I was going to add a DAC, around $250, what are some good options? Opinions on Schiit? Cambridge Audio?

My latest speaker obsession is Wharfedale Linton.
https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/linton-heritage/
https://upscaleaudio.com/products/wharfdale-linton-bookshelf-loudspeaker-pair

I have the Wharfedale Diamond floor standing speakers. I like them a lot.