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So if I don't kneel for the anthem...

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Posting this in politics because I don't see how it won't get political as hell.  I am however, genuinely asking this question:

If I do not kneel for the anthem will people assume I oppose those who kneel?  Is it that binary?  Will racists/ justice tone-deaf people assume I support them?   Do they give a fuck about ole Slorch either way?  LOlz.

I will always stand for it until I am unable or until the right to kneel does not exist.  I also am no longer assuming those who kneel just hate America.  I admittedly have my own homework to do in this department. I do not want my neighbors who kneel to think I necessarily oppose their views; but my own convictions will never allow me to kneel.

I've honestly been contemplating how things will go down the first couple of times the anthem is played and if folks can stick with their own personal stance( sic) without making broad judgments of that of others.'

Edited by slorch
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Guest Lobo

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I tend not to judge people who are standing.  Because right now, about 1/3rd of the world's population is standing.  I spend about 1/3rd of my day standing.  I also don't really judge people sitting.  Right now about 1/3rd of the world's population is sitting.  I spend about 1/3rd of my day sitting.  I even avoid judging people who are laying down.  I spend about 1/3rd of a given day laying down.  And 1/3rd of the world's population is lying down right now.  

That's why Boyer told Kaepernick to kneel, because it stands for something. 

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Nice Guy Eddie

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How about we don’t play the anthem at the beginning of events? Unlike what some believe, the point of playing it is to bring everyone together before two team/two sides play against each other on the field/ballpark. If the anthem, and reactions to it, are separating us, them stop the anthem playing.

my solution above doesn’t stop the underlying problems but it helps to not create a hostile environment that I believe it will.

for the OP, any game worth attending in person, doesn’t have room for spectators to kneel. 

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hookemATL

hookemATL 11611

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Since this is not a serious question, but rather a childish take on a topic that has a large amount of nuance involved, I will post this photo of a baby red panda. SO CUTE YOU GUYS!!!

 

 

FE73DDF6-D21F-4978-BF7E-93E4A4148FC0.jpeg

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Eastwood

Eastwood 4394

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The honest and reasonable answer is: some people will and some people won't. Just like some people view those who kneel as hating all of America rather than protesting certain conditions in America. Just as some will think that those who stand fully support those certain conditions that cause people to kneel.

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Guest Lobo

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28 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

We are going to assume you hate America and small business.  Then we’re going to take away your guns and force all females in your immediate family to get abortions.

 

I laughed because while hyperbole, it basically summarizes what some think about people who kneel.  Just started as a way to call attention to police violence on black people and it worked.  Had nothing to do with freedom or respect for veterans or anything about patriotism.

Asking your fellow Americans to not kill your other fellow Americans is pretty fucking patriotic if you ask me.  Half the political groups I belong to do a pledge of allegiance to both the American Flag and the Texas flag at the start of every meeting.  I stand up because the women at my table are standing and because there's a lot of vets in the groups.  But I don't bother saying the words, I am not ALLEGIANT to anything except my family.  Repeating a few words over and over again has nothing to do with how much you care about America.  If that was the case, then kindergarten kids would be our strongest patriots since they recite the pledge every single day.  But if you told a kindergartner about how rough it is in China, but that that's where all the iPads come from...they'd piss on the flag and move to Beijing in a heartbeat.  

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48 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

How about we don’t play the anthem at the beginning of events? Unlike what some believe, the point of playing it is to bring everyone together before two team/two sides play against each other on the field/ballpark. If the anthem, and reactions to it, are separating us, them stop the anthem playing.

my solution above doesn’t stop the underlying problems but it helps to not create a hostile environment that I believe it will.

for the OP, any game worth attending in person, doesn’t have room for spectators to kneel. 

Yeah, i wasn't just thinking of games or events like that. I could see it playing out at work, at a large meeting; where we have played America the Beautiful or done military tributes before the first evening meal in the past.  I have shared on here how we have had some incredibly open and vulnerable discussions recently concerning everything since George Floyd was murdered.  It has been raw, candid, and incredibly informative.  It has affected my opinion on things.  I feel it has been productive as hell.

 I know there is a very broad range of political POVs and values in here.  I have posed the same question on 2 other groups in which I participate and it's about 30% kneel/ stand follow your values and about 70% "my uncle died in Vietnam so fucking stand you commie bastard!".  It frustrates the shit out of me when people supposedly with a military lean just totally ignore liberty, or the reason we allegedly served.  When I have shared among family that I support the right to kneel, it's like I'm from another planet or something; but they know my values so they know they can't challenge the stance  for being "anti-American" or whatever. 

Anyhoo, I appreciate the sincere answers in the thread. Some people might think I am being silly or frivolous.  I am not. The root of why i asked the question on here is that there are more progressive attitudes, in general.  I do not want to hurt/damage/ impede the progress we've made at work and that which I have made with friends on the matter.  the conversations are at the root of understanding and how we are going to actually get to where we need to be, IMHO.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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1 hour ago, hookemATL said:

Since this is not a serious question, but rather a childish take on a topic that has a large amount of nuance involved, I will post this photo of a baby red panda. SO CUTE YOU GUYS!!!

 

 

FE73DDF6-D21F-4978-BF7E-93E4A4148FC0.jpeg

Finally somebody said it! 

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20704

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2 hours ago, slorch said:

Posting this in politics because I don't see how it won't get political as hell.  I am however, genuinely asking this question:

If I do not kneel for the anthem will people assume I oppose those who kneel?  Is it that binary?  Will racists/ justice tone-deaf people assume I support them?   Do they give a fuck about ole Slorch either way?  LOlz.

I will always stand for it until I am unable or until the right to kneel does not exist.  I also am no longer assuming those who kneel just hate America.  I admittedly have my own homework to do in this department. I do not want my neighbors who kneel to think I necessarily oppose their views; but my own convictions will never allow me to kneel.

I've honestly been contemplating how things will go down the first couple of times the anthem is played and if folks can stick with their own personal stance( sic) without making broad judgments of that of others.'

It's not about you. 

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6 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

America the Beautiful and military tributes at work meetings?  We usually kneel before Zod at ours.  

Not the whole fucking time.  LOLz.

like twice in the past 10 years.   

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20704

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10 minutes ago, slorch said:

Agreed,  thus the question.

I just answered it. 

Your post is basically the standard/response argument we see from a lot of conservative thinking people. When activists challenge others to recognize injustice, a lot of people reflexively want to hog the attention and victimization back onto themselves. It's not about you. Don't worry about what others think about you. The point is for you to think about other people. 

 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I just answered it. 

Your post is basically the standard/response argument we see from a lot of conservative thinking people. When activists challenge others to recognize injustice, a lot of people reflexly want to hog the attention and victimization back onto themselves. It's not about you. Don't worry about what others think about you. The point is for you to think about other people. 

 

No you didn't.  You ignored the whole premise and inserted your cancellation of the discussion.  Thank you for the perspective.

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Hank Kingsley

Hank Kingsley 20704

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Just now, slorch said:

No you didn't.  You ignored the whole premise and inserted your cancellation of the discussion.

The whole premise is flawed and misguided. Nobody gives a shit how you will be able to handle and process the national anthem. But I guess I'll spell it out for you:

"If I do not kneel for the anthem will people assume I oppose those who kneel?"   No. 

"Is it that binary?"  No. 

"Will racists/ justice tone-deaf people assume I support them?"   No. 

"Do they give a fuck about ole Slorch either way?"  No.  

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Tom

Tom 2959

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I realize the ante has increased this year, but the kneeling thing began a couple of years ago.  

Nobody I could see in the stands kneeled at any college or pro game I went to last year, and I went to several.  

If you refuse to kneel, I guarantee nobody will notice.  You will be invisible.  You will be doing the same thing as 99.99 percent of the crowd.

If you choose to protest and kneel, some redneck or Karen will likely lose their shit and say something or try to fight you.  

The scenario you're currently imagining in your head making yourself a hypothetical victim will take the complete opposite action to occur.  

Edited by Tom
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4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

And @slorch, I'm honestly not trying to be a dick about this. I just believe you need to rearrange your priorities when it comes to activism. We all need to listen, recognize, and process. It's harder to be selfless, but it's the right thing to do. 

 

 

 

Don't preach to me after ignoring/ cherrypicking my post.  Those elements are absolutely present.

Again, thank you for the perspective. You are not alone.

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11 minutes ago, Tom said:

I realize the ante has increased this year, but the kneeling thing began a couple of years ago.  

Nobody I could see in the stands kneeled at any college or pro game I went to last year, and I went to several.  

If you refuse to kneel, I guarantee nobody will notice.  You will be invisible.  

If you choose to protest and kneel, some redneck or Karen will likely lose their shit and say something or try to fight you.  

The scenario you're currently imagining in your head making yourself a hypothetical victim will take the complete opposite action to occur.  

I agree with all of that, save for the last line.

My concerns are not rooted in my own reputation or some bullshit like that. Seriously, IDGAF from that perspective. It  was more of a concern about people who do kneel thinking "Hey we've had all of this discussion and so-forth; I thought these people( some of the standers) were on our side/ supported us?"

To Hank's point, maybe it truly doesn't make a fuck.  This was the root of my question though.

Edited by slorch
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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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4 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Indigenous Peoples Style, you racist shitbag.

Hey that’s not what my first grade teacher said. 
 

Also the civil war was not about slavery but states rights, white trash are worse than black peoples and pizza is actually good for you. 

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Wanker Bob

Wanker Bob 379

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32 minutes ago, slorch said:

I agree with all of that, save for the last line.

My concerns are not rooted in my own reputation or some bullshit like that. Seriously, IDGAF from that perspective. It  was more of a concern about people who do kneel thinking "Hey we've had all of this discussion and so-forth; I thought these people( some of the standers) were on our side/ supported us?"

To Hank's point, maybe it truly doesn't make a fuck.  This was the root of my question though.

It's not about whether you kneel. It's about whether you infringe on the rights of people who do kneel. 

If you don't want people to fuck with you for not kneeling don't fuck with people who do kneel. 

That's all this shit is really about. For some reason the people screaming about rights only want the rights for things they believe in. They constantly infringe on rights of those who believe the opposite or differently than them. 

So in summation if you aren't protesting then don't kneel. Just don't be a dick and respect the right to protest for those that do. 

Edited by Wanker Bob
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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10085

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Just because you stand for the anthem or salute the flag does not make you a better American. There have been plenty of assholes in our history who did all that and still treated their fellow citizens like shit. Sometimes using their love of America as an excuse..

 

I will stand, as my personal preference, but that’s not what makes me a great American. Nor anyone else.

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Grade of D as in David

Grade of D as in David 13253

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1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

Just because you stand for the anthem or salute the flag does not make you a better American. There have been plenty of assholes in our history who did all that and still treated their fellow citizens like shit. Sometimes using their love of America as an excuse..

 

I will stand, as my personal preference, but that’s not what makes me a great American. Nor anyone else.

But what if you hug/molest the flag?

Oh yeah that definitely makes you a piece of shit.

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formermav43

formermav43 4599

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2 hours ago, slorch said:

Yeah, i wasn't just thinking of games or events like that. I could see it playing out at work, at a large meeting; where we have played America the Beautiful or done military tributes before the first evening meal in the past.  I have shared on here how we have had some incredibly open and vulnerable discussions recently concerning everything since George Floyd was murdered.  It has been raw, candid, and incredibly informative.  It has affected my opinion on things.  I feel it has been productive as hell.

 I know there is a very broad range of political POVs and values in here.  I have posed the same question on 2 other groups in which I participate and it's about 30% kneel/ stand follow your values and about 70% "my uncle died in Vietnam so fucking stand you commie bastard!".  It frustrates the shit out of me when people supposedly with a military lean just totally ignore liberty, or the reason we allegedly served.  When I have shared among family that I support the right to kneel, it's like I'm from another planet or something; but they know my values so they know they can't challenge the stance  for being "anti-American" or whatever. 

Anyhoo, I appreciate the sincere answers in the thread. Some people might think I am being silly or frivolous.  I am not. The root of why i asked the question on here is that there are more progressive attitudes, in general.  I do not want to hurt/damage/ impede the progress we've made at work and that which I have made with friends on the matter.  the conversations are at the root of understanding and how we are going to actually get to where we need to be, IMHO.

Lots of knee jerk responses who are piling on without reading the whole thread. I thought it was kind of strange to begin with too, but this board-and our dialogue with others in general-would be much more constructive if we actually listened. Read that quoted post and give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

What’s the inverse of slorched? That’s this thread.

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