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So if I don't kneel for the anthem...

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37518

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

The OP is a petri dish where Republican victimology thinking can observed and cultivated. An imagined resentment from a hypothetical scenario in which unfair cultural forces limit Slorch's right to choose. Good stuff.

Those hypothetical libtards passing judgment, I swear it's enough to drive a person to buy a semi-auto assault rifle and a bunch of 30-round magazines and go online to learn how to mod that big dick machine to fully auto, then sit there and wait to snap.

 

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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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Posted
6 hours ago, slorch said:

If I do not kneel for the anthem will people assume I oppose those who kneel?

Not that you oppose them but maybe you don't have that much empathy for them.

I think that was the whole (and relatively simple point that most assholes couldn't figure out) point.  You're acting in empathy and solidarity with your brothers in sports.

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2 hours ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

The OP is a petri dish where Republican victimology thinking can observed and cultivated. An imagined resentment from a hypothetical scenario in which unfair cultural forces limit Slorch's right to choose. Good stuff.

I truly don't understand this post.  The risk being assessed in the OP has nothing to do with me, my feelings, or whatever else you may be assigning to it.  It has everything to do with how people kneeling would view those who do not kneel, and whether they know they still have the support of (some) who stand.

 

Do y'all just have a flow chart to respond when you don't know the answer?   Can you be sincere?  Can you answer legitimately? It's like you want nothing to change.

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6136

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1 hour ago, slorch said:

I truly don't understand this post.  The risk being assessed in the OP has nothing to do with me, my feelings, or whatever else you may be assigning to it.  It has everything to do with how people kneeling would view those who do not kneel, and whether they know they still have the support of (some) who stand.

 

Do y'all just have a flow chart to respond when you don't know the answer?   Can you be sincere?  Can you answer legitimately? It's like you want nothing to change.

Why don’t you just go to a BLM Movement protest and ask the protesters yourself what they think? I have been out protesting for the last month at BLM Movement marches, sit-ins and vigils and I would tell you the answer you’ll receive, but you would do better to get off the internet, stop being just asking questions guy and go find out in-person. And don’t say protests are too far to attend in-person either. That’s a terrible excuse.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted (edited)

I can tell you folks that the constitution was very clear on flag/anthem in standing for the flag.  Article IV clearly stAtes you are to stand for the anthem and direct your attention to the flag.  It goes on to say that if you are in line for concessions, you are already standing but should remove head cover and be silent/still.  And it finished by saying that you should put cell phones away, but that one photo of the anthem singer is generally considered to socially acceptable provided you do it quietly. 
 

I remember when judicial restraint was a legit movement and I was a law school student in California that was a proud part of it.  Then a pack of a roving morons decided that the constitution spoke to their freedoms regarding semi automatic bearing protests to address their concerns with the government regarding their ability to support Bingo parlors during a global pandemic. 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9935

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14 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

"The Cid."

At the moment of his birth, the Cede would be taken out by a drone today.

As to the OP's question on kneeling . . . It's a hell of a hill to die on. Be respectful of the respect shown by a silent protest. You should be looking at the flag anyway. Looking at others during the National Anthem is considered disrespectful of tradition. You shouldn't be looking at others. 

 
 
 
 
Spoiler

 

As for the rest of us, identifying an urgent and fixable problem is quite wise and intelligent. We should be out in front of these problems before they become problems. FFS, who is in favor of cops killing detained humans? A cop acting as a judge, jury, and executioner should be rare today. It needs an urgent fix.

Good to see all the locals finally dialing back on these barbaric holds. They cause people to fight more (because they fear imminent death) and tragically some are not trained to understand when the submission has occurred. Get the adrenaline pumping, and the problem of sensitivity is amplified. With deadly results. 

This should have been fixed years ago. 

A silent kneeling during the anthem is a peaceful protest. It is respectful.

Respect those who thought enough of you to make it a silent protest and contemplate how Americans solve the problem immediately.

Like COVID, 99.9% of us agree it would be wonderful if not one LEO killed an individual human in the line of duty from this day forward.

We know how to solve these problems so why don't we keep going forward and fix it - beginning today. 

If you want to support Law Enforcement Officers, give them a work environment less stressful. Retrain to recognize how they endanger life with their tactics. And encourage the demilitarization of law enforcement units who interact with the public. Keep the protective gear, but enough with the theatrics. It has a place in war, not on American streets.

Adults are needed in the room on this topic wherever it is discussed. Be respectful of people who dissent from your views. Respect them and they may respect your point of view. 

 

Good topic by the OP. 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9935

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10 hours ago, slorch said:

I truly don't understand this post.  The risk being assessed in the OP has nothing to do with me, my feelings, or whatever else you may be assigning to it.  It has everything to do with how people kneeling would view those who do not kneel, and whether they know they still have the support of (some) who stand.

 

Do y'all just have a flow chart to respond when you don't know the answer?   Can you be sincere?  Can you answer legitimately? It's like you want nothing to change.

Pick out the posts that substantively answered your question rather than highlighting those that make you a little ragged. There are good answers to your question above. Highlight the ones you agree with - not those where you don't understand the answer provided by the author. Promotes better and informed conversation - if that is your ultimate interest. 

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13 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

Why don’t you just go to a BLM Movement protest and ask the protesters yourself what they think? I have been out protesting for the last month at BLM Movement marches, sit-ins and vigils and I would tell you the answer you’ll receive, but you would do better to get off the internet, stop being just asking questions guy and go find out in-person. And don’t say protests are too far to attend in-person either. That’s a terrible excuse.

1) I don't necessarily agree with BLM. They are right about some things, but certainly not all.  I  owe them no audience.  I know what pissed off people at a demonstration are going to say and am not looking to placate them, nor are they seeking to be placated. There is no middle ground goal there.

2) I have been having those discussions with people of color and have said so in the thread.

 

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13 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Why not just kneel?

As long as the freedom to kneel exists, I will stand.  I do not mean freedom from public scrutiny, but rather prosecution from the state. I respect the right to kneel and believe nobody should ever be made to stand for the anthem.  I believe the inverse is also true.

That's not the beginning and end of it, but it's a very substantial reason.  I do not stand because we are perfect. I stand because we have rights and opportunity to be better that do not necessarily exist everywhere in the world. I believe we honor the sacrifices of those who have defended these premises when we stand.  I believe we (should be) saying we actually believe we see all men as created equal and that we should be making sure every citizen has liberty and the opportunity for justice. We need to be better and live up to who we say we are.  I stand because I believe we can get there.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, slorch said:

As long as the freedom to kneel exists, I will stand.  I do not mean freedom from public scrutiny, but rather prosecution from the state. I respect the right to kneel and believe nobody should ever be made to stand for the anthem.  I believe the inverse is also true.

That's not the beginning and end of it, but it's a very substantial reason.  I do not stand because we are perfect. I stand because we have rights and opportunity to be better that do not necessarily exist everywhere in the world. I believe we honor the sacrifices of those who have defended these premises when we stand.  I believe we (should be) saying we actually believe we see all men as created equal and that we should be making sure every citizen has liberty and the opportunity for justice. We need to be better and live up to who we say we are.  I stand because I believe we can get there.

If you respect people's right to kneel and understand why they do it, then that is all you need to do when it comes to activity around the flag itself.  Pretty simple really.  Don't be a dick who boycotts the NFL and all that nonsense. 

If you don't respect people's right to kneel than you have less respect for what the flag is supposed to mean than they do.

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UpperWestside

UpperWestside 6136

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Posted
4 hours ago, slorch said:

1) I don't necessarily agree with BLM. They are right about some things, but certainly not all.  I  owe them no audience.  I know what pissed off people at a demonstration are going to say and am not looking to placate them, nor are they seeking to be placated. There is no middle ground goal there.

2) I have been having those discussions with people of color and have said so in the thread.

 

You OWE the BLM Movement, at a bare minimum, time from your day to go LISTEN. They have had to experience 400 years worth of bullshit in this country from people that look like you and I and now it is their time to speak and be heard. Being there as a privileged white male would show you that none of this is about YOU. The kneeling is not about YOU or what you think about it.  You get out and go to a protest to listen to others and you don't speak. If you were actually wanting to change society for the better you'd be out there supporting young men and women who need it.

Having discussions with African-Americans that you know is not doing your part. If your goal was to actually educate yourself you would get out and go listen to the speakers at a protest or march. They would make you feel uncomfortable at times with the stories they share and the anger that comes out from telling those stories, but that is part of it. You have a nice comfortable existence in this country and they largely do not enjoy anything resembling that same quality of life, but they are fighting for it and need all the help they can get. If you went to a protest you would know that they are so glad to see so many white people out there with them finally, but you aren't going to do that because it is about you and your feelings. I can slip away and never attend another protest until the day I die and my quality of life will not change, but none of what is happening is about my existence here in America. It is about millions of people who are treated like they are worth less than others because of their skin color. 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11360

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3 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

You OWE the BLM Movement, at a bare minimum, time from your day to go LISTEN. They have had to experience 400 years worth of bullshit in this country from people that look like you and I and now it is their time to speak and be heard. Being there as a privileged white male would show you that none of this is about YOU. The kneeling is not about YOU or what you think about it.  You get out and go to a protest to listen to others and you don't speak. If you were actually wanting to change society for the better you'd be out there supporting young men and women who need it.

Having discussions with African-Americans that you know is not doing your part. If your goal was to actually educate yourself you would get out and go listen to the speakers at a protest or march. They would make you feel uncomfortable at times with the stories they share and the anger that comes out from telling those stories, but that is part of it. You have a nice comfortable existence in this country and they largely do not enjoy anything resembling that same quality of life, but they are fighting for it and need all the help they can get. If you went to a protest you would know that they are so glad to see so many white people out there with them finally, but you aren't going to do that because it is about you and your feelings. I can slip away and never attend another protest until the day I die and my quality of life will not change, but none of what is happening is about my existence here in America. It is about millions of people who are treated like they are worth less than others because of their skin color. 

the part i emphasized above, that's the thing, @slorch, that i think you are missing. i'm a lily white dude who grew up in suburban dallas. i've said my whole life things like "i don't see color" and i didn't get the point. i'm seeing that now. black lives matter is not about white people. i mean, in part, it is, because we need to realize some things. and it's also important to understand that we actually DO need to see and acknowledge color. the first thing i realized is that i will never know what it is like to walk around with black skin. i don't know what that experience is like because i haven't lived it, and never will.

and that's okay. it's not my fault that i was born white. and i don't know what i don't now. 

however, as westside says, our job is to simply listen. exercise empathy. i don't know if i would kneel during a national anthem at a sporting event. i'm not even sure it's my place to kneel or if it's my protest to have. but maybe i would. it is a complicated issue, and one where people are finally realizing that things are starkly different depending on your race. i know you are a prime example of bootstrap mentality, given the stories you've shared over the years about your youth. it's admirable what you've overcome to get where you are today. but i think it's also important to realize how much being white helped you. this does not diminish your accomplishments at all.

this is where most people disconnect with black lives matter, imo. it's not about us white folk. it's about allowing the same avenues to success to everyone, including black people. the "all lives matter" people are missing the point entirely. the movement isn't named "only black lives matter." it is a simple expression of agency. "hey, we exist, and you know what, we matter ALSO."

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted

One thing I’ve never understood is why is kneeling a sign of disrespect. When you were finally let out of the dungeon and met the fucking king you didn’t go up and just shake his hand, you bowed and kneeled. Is it because we are treating the flag like a king? 

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14251

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

the part i emphasized above, that's the thing, @slorch, that i think you are missing. i'm a lily white dude who grew up in suburban dallas. i've said my whole life things like "i don't see color" and i didn't get the point. i'm seeing that now. black lives matter is not about white people. i mean, in part, it is, because we need to realize some things. and it's also important to understand that we actually DO need to see and acknowledge color. the first thing i realized is that i will never know what it is like to walk around with black skin. i don't know what that experience is like because i haven't lived it, and never will.

and that's okay. it's not my fault that i was born white. and i don't know what i don't now. 

however, as westside says, our job is to simply listen. exercise empathy. i don't know if i would kneel during a national anthem at a sporting event. i'm not even sure it's my place to kneel or if it's my protest to have. but maybe i would. it is a complicated issue, and one where people are finally realizing that things are starkly different depending on your race. i know you are a prime example of bootstrap mentality, given the stories you've shared over the years about your youth. it's admirable what you've overcome to get where you are today. but i think it's also important to realize how much being white helped you. this does not diminish your accomplishments at all.

this is where most people disconnect with black lives matter, imo. it's not about us white folk. it's about allowing the same avenues to success to everyone, including black people. the "all lives matter" people are missing the point entirely. the movement isn't named "only black lives matter." it is a simple expression of agency. "hey, we exist, and you know what, we matter ALSO."

This.  If you can't get your arms around BLM, then just think of it as Black Lives Matter, Too.

Also, who is Slorch here?  Isn't OG Slorch Iceman?

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

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Posted
On 7/6/2020 at 5:49 AM, slorch said:

1) I don't necessarily agree with BLM. They are right about some things, but certainly not all.  I  owe them no audience.  I know what pissed off people at a demonstration are going to say and am not looking to placate them, nor are they seeking to be placated. There is no middle ground goal there.

2) I have been having those discussions with people of color and have said so in the thread.

 

I don't necessarily agree with SLM. He is right right about very few things, but certainly not all.  I owe Slorch no audience.  I know what pissed off tech grads at a demonstration are going to grunt and I am not looking to placate them, nor are those grunting tech grads seeking to be placated. There is no middle ground goal there.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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On 7/6/2020 at 6:14 AM, slorch said:

As long as the freedom to kneel exists, I will stand.  I do not mean freedom from public scrutiny, but rather prosecution from the state. I respect the right to kneel and believe nobody should ever be made to stand for the anthem.  I believe the inverse is also true.

That's not the beginning and end of it, but it's a very substantial reason.  I do not stand because we are perfect. I stand because we have rights and opportunity to be better that do not necessarily exist everywhere in the world. I believe we honor the sacrifices of those who have defended these premises when we stand.  I believe we (should be) saying we actually believe we see all men as created equal and that we should be making sure every citizen has liberty and the opportunity for justice. We need to be better and live up to who we say we are.  I stand because I believe we can get there.

This sounds like the speech of someone about to die on a hill fighting an invading army, not a guy standing next to his wife ready to watch some teeangers/young-20s give each other CTE in plastic helmets.

Also, standing vs kneeling has nothing to do with basically anything you're talking about here. It's 100% a creation in your own mind, which is fine, but I do question such a steadfast allegiance to something you created individually.

But party on, Wayne. I don't think anyone will say anything to you.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted

the horned guy literally took a shit on the Pence/McConnell chair.  But that's patriotic.  Doing what Nate Boyer suggests is somehow anti-American.  

I miss when the shit I got from posters on here for celebrating Nate/Colin's actions.  Now we have to spend a week watching the FBI figure how much intel was stolen from congressional offices during the riot distractions.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18658

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Lobo said:

the horned guy literally took a shit on the Pence/McConnell chair.  But that's patriotic.  Doing what Nate Boyer suggests is somehow anti-American.  

I miss when the shit I got from posters on here for celebrating Nate/Colin's actions.  Now we have to spend a week watching the FBI figure how much intel was stolen from congressional offices during the riot distractions.  

Wait. He literally took a shit?

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted

He'd been up on his feet for 15 hours, you can see in his eyes he's on baby aspirin and laxatives.  Then he squirms on the seat having never taken a potty break.  

At the very least, he's the most famous Sharter of 2021.  

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SaucyJack

SaucyJack 3487

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Posted
26 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Remember when football players kneeling during the anthem was the height of anti-Americanism. How quaint. Now we have a president who congratulates people who violently attack Congress performing their constitutional duties.

That’s it!  I’m never watching another convening of Congress again!

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