Time to Peace Out (Relocate Overseas)?

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Lulz, there's snow skiing in Wisconsin.. but uh.. it sure as shit ain't world class. 

However, if snow mobiles are your kick, UP and northern Wisconsin might be the best place on earth.

I broke my back snowmobiling in Wisconsin once upon a time. Not fun times. 

[Larry T. Spider 1,747]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:40 PM, GRHorn said:

How is it in Mexico? San Miguel de Allende has a lot of gringos. You’d probably feel safe there. Great weather. 

Lady across the street from me just moved back from there because of the lack of medical treatment for covid. Packed her shit and drove to Austin. Has to be at least 75.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,224]

Properties in San Miguel de Allende don't appear too cheap.  Granted this was based on a 5 minute search of one realty site so further investigation may be required.

[XYZ 2,154]

From I what read, drug cartel violence is also present in San Miguel now. Didn’t use to be that way.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19,142]

17 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I need to read through this thread, but I’ve been thinking about decamping to my cousin’s country house in the Loire Valley and ...  we can’t, because an American passport won’t get us there. Too much winning, apparently.

I wish I had a cousin in the Loire...

But that reminds me, I would like to live in the Southwest of France.  Though it is more likely that I may relocate to Copenhagen in the next 2 years or so.

[bernorange 8,363]

This seems like the right thread for this...

Quote

NEW YORK, Aug. 6, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Americans are continuing to renounce their citizenship at the highest levels on record, according to research by the Enrolled Agents and accountants Bambridge Accountants New York.

•     5,816 Americans gave up their citizenship in the first six months of 2020
•     Showing a 1,210% increase on the prior six months to December 2019, where only 444 cases were recorded
•     2,072 Americans gave up their citizenship in 2019 in total
•     This is the second highest quarter on record; the record is 2,909 cases for the first quarter of 2020
•     It seems that the pandemic has motivated U.S. expats to cut ties and avoid the current political climate and onerous tax reporting

Americans must pay a $2,350 government fee to renounce their citizenship, and those based overseas must do so in person at the U.S. Embassy in their country.

There are an estimated 9 million U.S. expats. The trend has been that there has been a steep decline over the last few years of U.S. citizens expatriating - the first six months of 2020 is a huge increase in the number of Americans renouncing their citizenship.

Under the IRS rules (section 6039g), every three months the U.S. Government publishes the names of all Americans who give up their citizenship. The first six months for 2020 had 5,816 Americans renouncing their citizenship, far more than the total of the four quarters for 2019 (2,072 Americans renounced).

Alistair Bambridge, partner at Bambridge Accountants New York, explains: "There has been a huge turnaround during coronavirus of U.S. expats renouncing, where the figures have been in steep decline since 2017.

"The huge increase in U.S. expats renouncing from our experience is that the current pandemic has allowed individuals the time to review their ties to the U.S. and decide that the current political climate and annual US tax reporting is just too much to bear.
...

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/americans-continue-giving-up-citizenship-at-record-levels-reports-bambridge-accountants-new-york-301107675.html

[clapclapclap 9,000]

On 8/8/2020 at 5:50 PM, Ghost of LL said:

So we are currently looking at Turkey or Ireland. I like Turkey, but...

Gooble up some property while it's still affordable.

[Ghost of LL 15,539]

18 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I need to read through this thread, but I’ve been thinking about decamping to my cousin’s country house in the Loire Valley and ...  we can’t, because an American passport won’t get us there. Too much winning, apparently.

Ok.  So wild thing on this--it appears that we can get into the UK and Ireland if we quarantine for two weeks.  And once you have done your quarantine, you can travel anywhere in the EU.  At least, that's what the Italian foreign ministry indicates (the French site is a bit more opaque).

I'm kind of thinking about that--quarantine in two weeks at a friend's place in Ireland and then head to Rome for the winter.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,553]

56 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I wish I had a cousin in the Loire...

But that reminds me, I would like to live in the Southwest of France.  Though it is more likely that I may relocate to Copenhagen in the next 2 years or so.

She’s set up pretty well. It sounds fancier than it is, but she splits time between her apartment in the 5th in Paris and the 17th C. farmhouse in the Berry, where the old people speak with a thick Berrichon accent and everyone  lives on Sancerre, potatoes and goat cheese. Once when I visited I made chili and cornbread because she misses Texas and practically the whole village showed up to eat.  It’s charming, convenient to air travel via the TGV to Paris, and dirt cheap. 

[52-80 19,246]

1 hour ago, bernorange said:

This seems like the right thread for this...

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/americans-continue-giving-up-citizenship-at-record-levels-reports-bambridge-accountants-new-york-301107675.html

I'd be interested in a better breakdown of those numbers.  Would venture to guess more than half are existing dual-citizens (rather than those naturalizing to something else).  And probably a big chunk of tech-minted millionaires going (back) to low tax jurisdiction like HK, CH, UAE, etc

 

[Bevo 13,601]

41 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

She’s set up pretty well. It sounds fancier than it is, but she splits time between her apartment in the 5th in Paris and the 17th C. farmhouse in the Berry, where the old people speak with a thick Berrichon accent and everyone  lives on Sancerre, potatoes and goat cheese. Once when I visited I made chili and cornbread because she misses Texas and practically the whole village showed up to eat.  It’s charming, convenient to air travel via the TGV to Paris, and dirt cheap. 

Thank god you had Jade's recipe.

[Bill Lumbergh 7,186]

Ok.  So wild thing on this--it appears that we can get into the UK and Ireland if we quarantine for two weeks.  And once you have done your quarantine, you can travel anywhere in the EU.  At least, that's what the Italian foreign ministry indicates (the French site is a bit more opaque).
I'm kind of thinking about that--quarantine in two weeks at a friend's place in Ireland and then head to Rome for the winter.

I have a friend from work who just did this.

Her boyfriend is from Italy and got stuck there with his family in February. They had been waiting for things to clear up for him to come back to NY, but that was feeling unlikely so three weeks ago they both went to the UK, and last week they both went to Italy.

She was super nervous about how it would actually play out once she got over there, but sounds like from London everything was pretty normal.

[Walser 1,110]

4 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Gooble up some property while it's still affordable.

Swing and a miss.

[RDCanecutter 26,473]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:12 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

I need to read through this thread, but I’ve been thinking about decamping to my cousin’s country house in the Loire Valley and ...  we can’t, because an American passport won’t get us there. Too much winning, apparently.

[troph 24,906]

I wish I had a cousin in the Loire...
But that reminds me, I would like to live in the Southwest of France.  Though it is more likely that I may relocate to Copenhagen in the next 2 years or so.

Anything within 90 mins of the Mediterranean in the south of France would make my heart sing.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, troph said:

Anything within 90 mins of the Mediterranean in the south of France would make my heart sing.

Get me to the coast, and I'd never wanna leave.  One of the prettiest places on the planet, and the food doesn't suck either.

[troph 24,906]

Ok.  So wild thing on this--it appears that we can get into the UK and Ireland if we quarantine for two weeks.  And once you have done your quarantine, you can travel anywhere in the EU.  At least, that's what the Italian foreign ministry indicates (the French site is a bit more opaque).
I'm kind of thinking about that--quarantine in two weeks at a friend's place in Ireland and then head to Rome for the winter.

The entire world (provided it has good internet/WiFi) has opened up with remote litigation. You should.

[troph 24,906]

Get me to the coast, and I'd never wanna leave.  One of the prettiest places on the planet, and the food doesn't suck either.

Yeah reading the last few posts made me relive some amazing moments that were nearly 20 years ago. I really need to go back. Then I was broke, wanted to charter a sail boat couldn’t afford it, shoulda rented a place over looking the sea, couldn’t afford it, shoulda hired in home cooking, couldn’t afford it. We had an amazing time and ate fabulous food and saw incredible art and enjoyed the views everywhere but that place has to be something else with some adult means.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

Yeah reading the last few posts made me relive some amazing moments that were nearly 20 years ago. I really need to go back. Then I was broke, wanted to charter a sail boat couldn’t afford it, shoulda rented a place over looking the sea, couldn’t afford it, shoulda hired in home cooking, couldn’t afford it. We had an amazing time and ate fabulous food and saw incredible art and enjoyed the views everywhere but that place has to be something else with some adult means.

Oui.........

[StassneyHorn 6,637]

I’m planning on buying half the properties in Memphis and getting my pilots licenses. Slumlord and pilot just sounded like a lot of fun before I retire at 40 in Spain.

[Wulaw Horn 19,152]

29 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

I’m planning on buying half the properties in Memphis and getting my pilots licenses. Slumlord and pilot just sounded like a lot of fun before I retire at 40 in Spain.

My little brother is a pilot he’s preparing for times of lean right now. Interest rates are low. 1/2 your plan is solid. 

[washparkhorn 9,939]

The Yukon is opening up farmland. The breadbaskets by 2099 will be in Western Canada and Siberia. Getting expensive in the Yukon already.

[tx 3 putt 77,426]

10 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Though it is more likely that I may relocate to Copenhagen in the next 2 years or so.

I loved my Copenhagen visit

[troph 24,906]

I know three's a crowd, but if you want company. Just sayin'

We might even let you watch.

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

3 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

The Yukon is opening up farmland. The breadbaskets by 2099 will be in Western Canada and Siberia. Getting expensive in the Yukon already.

 

Really? Canada is limited by logistics and climate. You can only have two crops at most before winter and what is grown is limited by expensive and bottle-necked transport out of the country. It is beautiful country, but absent succession to the US, I would hesitate to think it is another bread basket. In addition the federal government will have to heavily tax the western provinces to pay for the growing social spending of the urban centers. Peter Zeihan has some interesting thoughts on Canada's vulnerability if it interests you.

[Bevo 13,601]

8 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

I’m planning on buying half the properties in Memphis and getting my pilots licenses. Slumlord and pilot just sounded like a lot of fun before I retire at 40 in Spain.

Sounds like Avron Fogelman: He owns half of Memphis. His kids went to UT. He wasn't a pilot but he used charters. From what I understand, it is the only way to fly.

[Guest Lobo]

5 hours ago, Bevo said:

Sounds like Avron Fogelman: He owns half of Memphis. His kids went to UT. He wasn't a pilot but he used charters. From what I understand, it is the only way to fly.

Av Fogelman, the sausage king of Memphis?

[Guest Lobo]

You talking about Gus’ Fried Chicken like the one in Austin or Gus Fring’s Pollos Hermanos?   
 

we went to that one in Memphis the night before the Ole Miss game and holy shit, rarely does a place like that live up to the hype but it was insanely good.  Anybody know if the downtown Austin one is doing takeout right now?

[Guest Lobo]

You can’t go wrong with any Harold’s in Chicago. But I’m partial to Big Jones.  If you ever get a chance though, drive out to Romeoville and eat at White Fence Farm.  They still make the best fried chicken after almost a century. 
 

back to relocation talk.  Costa Rica is really putting up a lot of barriers for U.S. citizens to temporarily relocate there.  We have an address to use there and blood relatives with citizenship there but by the time we are done with the process, it’ll be holiday break.  

[CORN 89]

Have you considered Bordeaux?

France's  Aquitaine region is its number 1 sweetcorn production region, by far!

 

[ztejas 43,537]

9 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Really? Canada is limited by logistics and climate. You can only have two crops at most before winter and what is grown is limited by expensive and bottle-necked transport out of the country. It is beautiful country, but absent succession to the US, I would hesitate to think it is another bread basket. In addition the federal government will have to heavily tax the western provinces to pay for the growing social spending of the urban centers. Peter Zeihan has some interesting thoughts on Canada's vulnerability if it interests you.

I think you missed the part where he's talking about 80 years from now. You know, once Florida's melted into the ocean.

27 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

However, do NOT sleep on Brick and Bones in Deep Ellum next time you go to Texas Vs Ousux. It's fucking amazing.

Dallas is a slept-on fried chicken mecca.

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

5 hours ago, ztejas said:

I think you missed the part where he's talking about 80 years from now. You know, once Florida's melted into the ocean.

 

Climate change wouldn't affect the climate enough to change the point I was making and wouldn't change the logistic and political situation at all. Only the ability to sell products in the dollar (succession) would change much. I'm not an expert of course.

[ztejas 43,537]

23 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

Climate change wouldn't affect the climate enough to change the point I was making and wouldn't change the logistic and political situation at all.

It absolutely would. Here's what some of this could look like by 2050:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/climate-change/how-to-live-with-it/crops.html

The geography is already changing. Crops that used to do well in certain areas are seeing lower yields. Crops that used to not grow well or even be tenable in certain areas are now being seen as decent alternatives. (Quick example here https://www.wri.org/blog/2018/08/thanks-climate-change-oranges-are-becoming-new-coffee-some-parts-costa-rica)

Even with moderate predictions, by 2100 the agricultural geogrpahy of the world as we know it will be very different - not accounting for changes in how crops are grown (but even when accounting for some of those changes). I.e. if you are looking at the status quo in 2020 of how agriculture is practiced around the world, the same methods will be achieving wildly different results 80 years from now.

Obviously a lot of this - including the climate science itself - is unpredictable - but making the claim that regions that were once too cold or arid to grow certain crops could in the future become "breadbaskets" (to use the term that was presented) is supported pretty well as far as what we are already seeing and what climatologists are predicting for the future. 

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

I was really contemplating the idea of moving back to Brazil the other day.  Even to the point of feeling my wife out about the idea.  She mostly shot it down because of job situation there.  I am still furloughed but her career is going strong and she likes where she works.  I always considered this an option for retirement, but there are a few reasons why I would want to do it now.

I want my girls to speak Portuguese and learn their culture(s).  My wife and I are not doing the best job of this here in Texas.

The dollar goes a lot further there, so would be pretty easy to get set up in a nice place there.  We own some real estate there but I would prefer to move to the south of Brazil...like Santa Maria, Gramado or Novo Hamburgo - RS or maybe Joinville - SC.

But it would be a really hard decision because of family here.

[DDD Dad 14,351]

I was really contemplating the idea of moving back to Brazil the other day.  Even to the point of feeling my wife out about the idea.  She mostly shot it down because of job situation there.  I am still furloughed but her career is going strong and she likes where she works.  I always considered this an option for retirement, but there are a few reasons why I would want to do it now.
I want my girls to speak Portuguese and learn their culture(s).  My wife and I are not doing the best job of this here in Texas.
The dollar goes a lot further there, so would be pretty easy to get set up in a nice place there.  We own some real estate there but I would prefer to move to the south of Brazil...like Santa Maria, Gramado or Novo Hamburgo - RS or maybe Joinville - SC.
But it would be a really hard decision because of family here.

Why would you want to go someplace that is almost as fucked up as here with their COVId handling?

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Why would you want to go someplace that is almost as fucked up as here with their COVId handling?

I should have qualified that a move there isn’t about covid or politics. I chimed because the thread seemed to get wider in focus. But yeah, moving to Brazil because of covid (or politics for that matter) makes no sense.

[XYZ 2,154]

50 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I was really contemplating the idea of moving back to Brazil the other day.  Even to the point of feeling my wife out about the idea.  She mostly shot it down because of job situation there.  I am still furloughed but her career is going strong and she likes where she works.  I always considered this an option for retirement, but there are a few reasons why I would want to do it now.

I want my girls to speak Portuguese and learn their culture(s).  My wife and I are not doing the best job of this here in Texas.

The dollar goes a lot further there, so would be pretty easy to get set up in a nice place there.  We own some real estate there but I would prefer to move to the south of Brazil...like Santa Maria, Gramado or Novo Hamburgo - RS or maybe Joinville - SC.

But it would be a really hard decision because of family here.

Small world. I’ve been to Gramado. There was another town nearby named Canela. Both towns were cool.

[justhookit 4,191]

13 hours ago, Lobo said:

back to relocation talk.  Costa Rica is really putting up a lot of barriers for U.S. citizens to temporarily relocate there.  We have an address to use there and blood relatives with citizenship there but by the time we are done with the process, it’ll be holiday break.  

What? If you mean they aren’t letting in U.S. citizens right now then yes. But it’s a barrier for any tourist from here, not just someone looking to relocate for the 90 days allowed. Also, for awhile now you can pay a “fine” and stay longer than the 90 days assuming they ever let us back in the country. I have no clue what you mean by an address to use or a blood relative (unless you are a father/son/brother/spouse of a CR citizen) as that’s never been an issue to gaining residency or citizenship. You just need money.

Edited August 12, 2020 by justhookit

[52-80 19,246]

4 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

 

I want my girls to speak Portuguese and learn their culture(s).  My wife and I are not doing the best job of this here in Texas.

 

have you considered Angola?

[RollLeft 5,045]

Portuguese?  Hmm...but why?

This is what the Spanish world thinks of Portuguese.

Begin speaking Spanish.

Now take a few shots and allow your S's to start to slur your speech.

Now close your eyes. 

Now imagine you have down syndrome and pronounce your Spanish words as a drunk person with down syndrome. "AU"

That is what Portuguese sounds like.

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

9 hours ago, ztejas said:

It absolutely would. Here's what some of this could look like by 2050:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/climate-change/how-to-live-with-it/crops.html

The geography is already changing. Crops that used to do well in certain areas are seeing lower yields. Crops that used to not grow well or even be tenable in certain areas are now being seen as decent alternatives. (Quick example here https://www.wri.org/blog/2018/08/thanks-climate-change-oranges-are-becoming-new-coffee-some-parts-costa-rica)

Even with moderate predictions, by 2100 the agricultural geogrpahy of the world as we know it will be very different - not accounting for changes in how crops are grown (but even when accounting for some of those changes). I.e. if you are looking at the status quo in 2020 of how agriculture is practiced around the world, the same methods will be achieving wildly different results 80 years from now.

Obviously a lot of this - including the climate science itself - is unpredictable - but making the claim that regions that were once too cold or arid to grow certain crops could in the future become "breadbaskets" (to use the term that was presented) is supported pretty well as far as what we are already seeing and what climatologists are predicting for the future. 

 

Even if climate change is that big of a weather change, does it affect logistics or politics enough in that area? Will rivers appear or trains reach close enough? The Smithsonian map you linked doesn't show any effect in the Yukon regardless.

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

have you considered Angola?

They speak all fucked up.

Portuguese?  Hmm...but why?
This is what the Spanish world thinks of Portuguese.
Begin speaking Spanish.
Now take a few shots and allow your S's to start to slur your speech.
Now close your eyes. 
Now imagine you have down syndrome and pronounce your Spanish words as a drunk person with down syndrome. "AU"
That is what Portuguese sounds like.

Vai tomar no cu.

[washparkhorn 9,939]

5 hours ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Even if climate change is that big of a weather change, does it affect logistics or politics enough in that area? Will rivers appear or trains reach close enough? The Smithsonian map you linked doesn't show any effect in the Yukon regardless.

Canada is studying their role as a home for climate refugees. I don't want to derail the thread anymore, but this Canadian Parliament publication might be a good place for you to start if interested in the subject. https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201004E

Cheers

[clapclapclap 9,000]

26 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

climate refugees

LOL

They're a large part of the growth of FL, TX, AZ, and CA

Edited August 12, 2020 by clapclapclap
And TX to CO

[RollLeft 5,045]

 

[bolverk 29,717]

Article about tourism-dependent countries offering more visas to those who want to work remotely in another country. Worth skimming.

Why Work From Home When You Can Work From Barbados, Bermuda or … Estonia?

Several countries with fragile tourist economies have started to offer visas that allow foreign nationals to live and work for a period of at least six months.

When Lamin Ngobeh, a high-school teacher at the Freire Charter School in Wilmington, Del., saw a social media post last month about working remotely in Barbados for 12 months, his interest was piqued.

“My school probably won’t open for in-person classes at least until February 2021, and I want to be in a country that’s safer — health wise — and also enjoy the quality of life,” he said of the reasons for considering a temporary relocation. “I reached out to my school leaders and they were very supportive of my decision.”

When it announced its 12-month Welcome Stamp program in mid-July, Barbados became one of the first of several countries, in regions from the Caribbean to Eastern Europe, to create programs for remote workers. The programs employ either special visas or expand existing ones to entice workers to temporarily relocate. Other countries offering similar visas currently include Estonia, Georgia and Bermuda.

A substantial drop in these countries’ tourism numbers is a key reason for the new programs.

“Tourism is the lifeline of the country,” said Eusi Skeete, the U.S. director of tourism for Barbados. Tourism accounted for 14 percent of the country’s annual gross domestic product in 2019, according to data published by the Central Bank of Barbados, and had a record number of international arrivals of more than 712,000. But in 2020, the number of visitors during the months of April, May and June were near zero.

Mr. Skeete said that the country’s new remote worker visa program will help with those numbers. “A 12-month period will allow visitors to experience the country in a holistic way,” he said.

More than 1,000 applications from around the world were submitted within the first week, the country said, with the majority of responses from the United States, Canada, and Britain.

Mr. Ngobeh’s application was approved on Monday. He plans to move mid-September.

Spoiler

 

Catering to the Digital Nomad
Even before the pandemic, the number of remote workers worldwide was growing: Research from the consulting firm MBO Partners found that the number of independent workers in the United States, which includes consultants, freelancers and temporary workers, was around 41 million in 2019. More than 7.3 million workers in the United States described themselves in 2019 as “digital nomads”: those who chose to embrace a location-independent lifestyle that allowed them to travel and work remotely.

David Cassar, MBO Partners’ chief operations officer, notes that the international leverage of freelancers is increasing considerably. “We absolutely expect interest in becoming a digital nomad to spike among independent workers in the coming years. Covid-19 has accelerated the adoption of widespread remote work, and independent workers will be among the first to take advantage of a location-independent, technology-enabled lifestyle,” he said.

Many workers are drawn to the lifestyle of digital nomads because of a lower cost of living.

Maggie Turansky, whose hometown is Phoenix, currently lives in the Republic of Georgia. She runs a website, The World Was Here First, with her partner, and rents a brand-new apartment in Tbilisi for about $500 a month. They stayed there during the pandemic.

“I can’t think of any other major city in a Western country that would be comparable,” she said. “The utilities on top of that rarely go above $50 a month, and the Wi-Fi is great. Georgia is appealing and there’s so much to see and do, and we kind of fell in love with it.”

Mr. Ngobeh noted that he has found decent two- to four-bedroom apartments that rent from $500 to $1,500 a month.

Amanda Kolbye, another United States citizen, currently works from Malaysia as an online business coach. She has enjoyed living and working overseas for the past two years, living in six countries, including Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Qatar and Taiwan.

“I’m not planning to return to the U.S. for the foreseeable future,” Ms. Kolbye said. “I’m considering running my business in another country, like Estonia or Barbados or Bermuda that will allow me to be closer to home.”

Criteria for extended stays
Some criteria for international visitors who seek these extended stays are similar.

While all countries require proof of health insurance and negative virus tests (either pre-arrival, upon arrival, or both), some require an application fee and proof of a monthly salary, complete with bank statements.

For Barbados, prospective remote workers need to fill out an online application form and submit photos, they also need to supply proof of employment and an income declaration of at least $50,000 annually during the period that they are on the island. An application fee of $2,000 per person is only payable after he or she is approved; families pay a fee of $3,000, irrespective of the number of members in their household.

Bermuda’s Residency Certificate Policy, which was announced Aug. 1, has an application fee of $263.

Edward David Burt, the premier of Bermuda, said that the certificate did not require any change in law (the country has issued residential certificates before), but rather an expansion of it. “This will certainly help with our tourism industry,” he said. “You can have either 52 weeklong tours, or one 52-weeklong tour — the bottom line is the same: that it will support our economy.”

In 2019, Bermuda reported $419 million in leisure tourism revenue and more than 808,000 visitors — the most in the country’s history. Not surprisingly, the pandemic has depressed these numbers. In the first quarter of 2020, Bermuda’s tourism spending was $19.8 million compared to $32 million the previous year, and leisure air arrivals fell by nearly 44 percent.

“Tourists during the months of April, May and June were nearly zero,” said Glenn Jones, the interim chief executive officer of the Bermuda Tourism Authority. “I can tell you that we live on air arrivals. In July, our airlift capacity — the number of commercial airline seats flying to the island — was just 10 percent of what it was last July. August will be just 20 percent.”

Within days of announcing its residential certificate program, Bermuda received 69 applications from around the world.

Unlike Barbados, Bermuda does not require a minimum monthly income for extended stay remote workers.

Estonia’s new digital nomad visa, which began Aug. 1 and is an extension of its e-Residency program, will allow visitors to stay in the country legally and work remotely for their employer for up to 12 months. The application fee is $125, and applicants need to demonstrate proof of a base salary of at least $4,150 per month. But Americans will need to be patient as they are currently not allowed to enter Estonia, which follows European Union regulations, for its digital nomad visa program.

“If you see the countries offering remote worker visas, they are the ones highly dependent on tourism,” said Ott Vatter, the managing director of eResidency in Estonia. “While Estonia is not that dependent on the tourism sector, people are realizing the potential and the need for this type of offering; after Covid, the need accelerated.”

Tourism accounted for around 8 percent of the national G.D.P. for Estonia in 2019; and the Ministry of Internal Affairs expects at least a 50 percent reduction in tourism revenue in 2020 compared to 2019.

Georgia’s program, called “Remotely from Georgia,” allows workers to stay and work there for up to six months. Like Bermuda, Georgia currently does not require that applying workers show a monthly minimum income; applicants however need to make the case that they have sufficient means to support their lifestyles.

Diana Zhgenti, the Consul General of Georgia in New York, says that while there are no such financial restrictions for remote workers, the program is only available to citizens of 95 countries that are allowed to travel there visa-free. Long-term business workers will be required to quarantine for a period of 14 days upon arrival at their expense.

It may not be for everyone
Neville Mehra, hailing from Washington, D.C., left his last corporate job in 2017 and has since done remote digital strategy work through his company, Nampora. He currently lives and works in Valencia, Spain, though he has worked in more than 50 countries, including Georgia, and plans to return there with the new “Remotely from Georgia” program.

“Over time, freelance digital nomads have started to ask what’s the best quality of life, instead of ‘where are the jobs’?” he said. “This is not about moving to a country and taking a job away from a local, but about spending locally at a higher level with a stronger currency.”

But while working remotely may be attractive to those who are able do their work with a laptop and a zippy internet connection, it may not be as easy for all professionals.

Mr. Cassar also notes that living and working remotely in another country will carry some risks. “If I’m traveling across the country, even as a company employee, workers’ comp may not cover me,” he said. “If I am classified as an independent worker in the U.S., having that freelancer status of ‘LLC’ may not be recognized in other countries.”

Language can also be a barrier. Ketevan Buadze, who co-founded the BSH law firm in Georgia that works with immigrants and remote workers, says that the country is extremely friendly to noncitizens, but noted that more “young people speak English, not so much the older folks.”

Those with children could have additional headaches. Families who plan on schooling their children from another country remotely may experience issues with time-zone differences. Or those who would like to enroll their children in local schools may face limitations: Bermuda and Estonia have restrictions on what types of schools are open to enrollment of foreign children. “International families cannot access public schools, but the private school system,” said Mr. Burt, the Bermuda premier. Estonia offers a few schooling options for international students including the Tallinn European School and the International School of Estonia (there are tuition fees for each).

But in the end, the tipping point to temporarily relocate to a different country may just come down to safety.

Sadie Millard, a New York City resident who has been in Bermuda since the pandemic started, said she plans to apply for the remote worker visa since her broker dealer firm remains closed. “There have been about 100 cases here in total,” she said, “and although it is as expensive here as in New York City, I feel a lot safer. The only thing I’ve had to adjust to is driving on the other side of the road.”

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by bolverk
forgot to link

[CHIEF 5,095]

CHIEF Jr. has a big opportunity in Cozumel. On our last diving trip, the dive shop owner found out he is Mercruiser and Yamaha certified, in fact he has about $4k worth of Yamaha software loaded on his phone. Apparently, there are only two or three marine mechanics on the whole island, they work when they want, charge what they want, and their only tools are hammers, screwdrivers, crescent wrenches, and a cutting torch. The dive shop owner said he had access to a couple of million to build anything CHIEF Jr. wants, buy and ship tools, and put in a marina complete with drydock. I have been encouraging him to go do it for a few years, Mrs. CHIEF and my Mother get pretty livid about it. But, you are only young once, this would be a great opportunity. I don't think I could ever get my Mother to move down there, but Mrs. CHIEF would probably move down in about six months of him being gone.

CHIEF

[washparkhorn 9,939]

2 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Apparently, there are only two or three marine mechanics on the whole island, they work when they want, charge what they want, and their only tools are hammers, screwdrivers, crescent wrenches, and a cutting torch. 

CHIEF

They will not let go of their Mechanic Monopoly willingly. He needs his head on a swivel. A lot of ways to disappear down there. Other than that - sounds like a fun opportunity for Junior. Good luck.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

14 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

CHIEF Jr. has a big opportunity in Cozumel. On our last diving trip, the dive shop owner found out he is Mercruiser and Yamaha certified, in fact he has about $4k worth of Yamaha software loaded on his phone. Apparently, there are only two or three marine mechanics on the whole island, they work when they want, charge what they want, and their only tools are hammers, screwdrivers, crescent wrenches, and a cutting torch. The dive shop owner said he had access to a couple of million to build anything CHIEF Jr. wants, buy and ship tools, and put in a marina complete with drydock. I have been encouraging him to go do it for a few years, Mrs. CHIEF and my Mother get pretty livid about it. But, you are only young once, this would be a great opportunity. I don't think I could ever get my Mother to move down there, but Mrs. CHIEF would probably move down in about six months of him being gone.

CHIEF

Fuck yeah, if you feel it's a safe set up, and young Chief is smart, and ( most importantly) street savvy.

[gmr548 16,616]

Denver is an ugly midwestern city. And it’s got crime issues. Don’t ask me how I know. If you’re gonna live in Colorado, live in the mountains.

Eh, to each his own.

Denver is a good enough city when it comes to activities, pro sports, etc for me if we have the itch to go into the city for a weekend. I don't want to live there, but it checks the box on jobs, airport, enough culture.

Those small towns just heading into the mountains are anything but ugly IMO, but we highly value the scenery and outdoor activities close by.

I don't know if any Midwestern suburbs that are 2 hours from world class skiing. Maybe i haven't looked close enough.

I was playing off the originally quoted post above. I know fuck all about the Denver suburbs. I'd imagine the ones close to the mountains are cool and somewhere like Aurora sucks?