Black Lives Matter: Does the Marxism of its co-founders conflict with its mission?

[bad_teammate 13132]

@Axiom of Choice invited a new thread where he will elucidate his specific thoughts regarding the title question.

I, for one, am eager to hear how the Marxism of BLM's co-founders interacts with the goal of black liberation.

He assures me they are in conflict, and I invite him to this space to educate me.

Anyone else is free to hold forth on the topic as well, of course.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

if there is one thing we were all hoping for, it was a thread of just @Axiom of Choice and @bad_teammate posts.

[bad_teammate 13132]

You're welcome, honey.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

i kid, of course.  while you are wildly unhinged, you are also one of the funnier posters.  the board would be poorer in your absence.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13546]

Trump's entire life is an advocacy for Marxism.

[Blotto 23434]

3 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Trump's entire life is an advocacy for Marxism  abortion.

 

[elfenix 34171]

what period of marx are we talking about?  early? late? neoclassicism?

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

Groucho

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, elfenix said:

what period of marx are we talking about?  early? late? neoclassicism?

His first album had a great critique of capitalism in "Don't Mean Nothin'", but on Repeat Offender Marx really hit his stride as he sang a love song to the proletariat about how the revolution will be "Right Here Waiting" for them.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

The founders also support gay and transgender rights.  In 2017, only 51% of African Americans supported same sex marriage.  I assume that has probably gone up a little bit over the last 3 years.  However, I imagine it doesn't come close to the 86% of African Americans that support Black Lives Matter.  Somehow, the founders' support of gay and transgender rights isn't a problem though.  Much like marxism, it is simply a different fight.  The founders are also pro-choice.

[ryskey 447]

What philosophical economic discussion would ever be complete without excessive pedantry?

Define Marxist.  Engage.

[horn4life 3755]

I am always friendly with dumb team mates, I just never let them on the field.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5342]

Apparently this is what happens when people are really bored and isolated (like normal?). 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

just came in to see what this thread was all abou..... nevermind

[BigHorn'13 3354]

Let's put it like this-- whatever gang I'm sorry party you're affiliated with has people within it whom yourself has ideological differences with, yes? Does that prevent you from siding with them at the ballot? Does whatever they believe in cloud your view on the party's mission? 

I don't care what the organization's founder's beliefs are. I care about the message and that message is that black folks have never really been a part of society as you know it. You can't honestly claim all lives matter if you've treated one sect poorly throughout history. 

No. I care about those exact words and their meaning because we haven't collectively given a shit before and there's no time like the present to start. Fuck your political feelings. 

Black. Lives. Matter. 

[JBJ 3649]

BLM has been co-opted to some extent, but I don't think that necessarily taints the entire thing.

The majority of the ground-swell movement probably don't even know what gets marketed on a particular website in the name of BLM.

[workswithseed 2036]

 

[staboner 4958]

my two cents is what it always is. If we found a way to talk about these values that didn't use old terms we would get so much farther. once we use capitalism, marxism, or socialism we just immediately pollute the conversation and eliminate any logical exchange or ideas and/or sharing of experience.

but we all know this. 

does BLM actively use "Marxism" in their language or just some element of some of the values? Or are people just labeling it that from the outside?

I mean its a bottoms up movement so likely full of all kinds of beliefs. If anyone (who is opposed to BLM) would just find the heart in the movement (versus an easy out) I think we would be in a better situation.

Also, what @JBJ and @BigHorn'13 said

Edited July 8, 2020 by staboner

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 hour ago, Axiom of Choice said:

The answer to the question in the OP is yes, assuming they use the movement to attempt to progress or proliferate anti western or marxist ideology.  For some reason I kept being pressed for details even though I stated why in what I thought was simple language, but here is my attempt at additional clarity:

1. As FondrenRoad stated in the other thread, the BLM movement is primarily about achieving (E) equality & the elimination of police brutality. 
2. As a general rule, movements gain in power with greater number of supporters and lose power when they lose supporters.
3. There are people who do want to support a movement that promotes E but are strongly opposed to the spread of (M) marxist or anti western ideology, and will not support groups who promote both E and M.
4. A movement that wishes to promote both E and M will have less supporters and therefore less power (from 2 and 3).
5. An organization or movement does not need to promote M to promote E and M is not necessary to achieve in order to achieve E.
6. Therefore, it is not in the best interests of the BLM movement to promote M (from 1, 4, and 5)

So your objection doesn't really have anything to do with Marxism and its tenets, your pitch is entirely a pundit/marketing take?

Cool. Kind of disappointing and shallow and empty, but OK.

A follow-up:
Do you honestly and genuinely believe that there are a politically significant number of Americans who are both (A) so stridently anti-Marxist that it supersedes all else and (B) desirous of racial equality and ending police brutality?

I have no idea what that voting constituency looks like. Perhaps you could educate me.

The anti-Communist brigade in American politics is uniformly Republican. Socialism's popularity is rising in America and is especially high among young(ish) voters. Among Democrats, socialism is often viewed more favorably than capitalism. And Republicans are massively pro-police and think police misconduct is essentially a myth.

As mentioned above by @BigHorn'13, it's not just a matter of this theoretical person disliking socialism/Communism/Marxism, it's about them hating it SO MUCH that they decide to stop opposing racial inequality and police brutality.  I just don't there's a person like that that exists in statistically significant numbers, but I am very eager to see evidence otherwise.

But yeah, I'd already seen your pundit take and knew it was hot garbage. I was hoping you were going to actually discuss how Marxism itself was antithetical to the stated goals of BLM but it looks like you're going to disappoint yet again.

womp womp

Edited July 8, 2020 by bad_teammate

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, staboner said:

does BLM actively use "Marxism" in their language or just some element of some of the values?

No.

There are interviews with tiny outlets in which BLM co-founders talk about it, but it's not a facet of their public-facing movement and the only way Axiom and others would actually know is from furious right-wing video-makers who want to DESTROY their opponents with LOGIC.

i.e., you're only likely to find out if you're already subscribed to Steven Crowder or something

[bad_teammate 13132]

@GRHorn

Quote

BLM founders being Marxist is bad for black people because their antagonistic views toward the family structure would exacerbate the current breakdown of the family in black culture.

In what way is Marxism antagonistic towards "the family structure"?

Quote

This is all putting aside the effect of past Marxist/socialist/communist governments on poor people in their countries.

In what ways does BLM advocate mimicking the economic life of the governments to which you refer?

[JimmyJames 12271]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

@GRHorn

In what way is Marxism antagonistic towards "the family structure"?

In what ways does BLM advocate mimicking the economic life of the governments to which you refer?

He’s just spouting out bullshit at this point. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Obama was a Marxist and a Muslim terrorist and that didn't dilute his message.

[David Dennison 18656]

Marxism is a western ideology by origin. Just thought I would point that out.

[bad_teammate 13132]

40 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

You saw my argument, didn't bother to argue it (then or now), and just repeated questions for me to address claims that I never made looking for something that wasn't there. 

Ah, so you don't actually think Marxism itself conflicts with the goals of BLM?

Interesting. Cool. Good to know.

 

Quote

To answer your follow up question, I genuinely believe that there are many Americans that hate police brutality & want equality and also hate communism/socialism/Marxism (I understand there is a distinction but you referenced all three). 

Do you have any kind of empirical data to base this claim on?

Because the polling I referenced seems to show otherwise.

Quote

Why force a wedge on this issue when there is no need to?

This is a good question, because who is forcing the wedge? (A genuine question.)

Is BLM pushing Marxism as a message? Are they selling BLM to people using "Hey we're Marxists!"?

Because it seems to me that the people actually pushing the connection between BLM and Marxism (which do not naturally conflict, according to you) are not only outside of BLM but explicitly anti-BLM. Is this fair of me to say?

Quote

I don't listen to or watch any of the content you mention. 

Interesting.

This video has 9k views total and the seemingly-unrelated tags #MAGA and #Trump2020

If this was not the video posted in the other thread I apologize and welcome correction.

Where might one find this sort of video?

[GRHorn 105]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

@GRHorn

In what way is Marxism antagonistic towards "the family structure"?

Sorry I missed this thread.

I’ve linked this earlier. There’s plenty of other summations online. 
 

https://revisesociology.com/2014/02/10/marxist-perspective-family/

 

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

@GRHorn

In what ways does BLM advocate mimicking the economic life of the governments to which you refer?

They don’t in their mission statement. I was admittedly looking more down the line in what they philosophically believe and its implementations historically. 
 

My basic position is BLM founders are free to believe what they want, and free to create organizations to pursue whatever they want, but I suspect many of the people with positive views of them are unaware of their foundational ideology. It runs against what is harming their culture (family structure) and what many of them would agree with spiritually.
 

I suspect that last part is why the BLM marxist foundation is resisted, although not by you BT so props on that. 

[gmr548 16512]

5 hours ago, Blotto said:

 

/thread

[bad_teammate 13132]

7 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Sure.  Lots of polls show that the majority of Americans have negative views towards socialism.  Polls also show that as many as 9 out of 10 Americans believe that racism and police violence are problems in the country.   Going by these numbers, at least 40% of Americans who believe that racism and police violence are problems in the country and also have a negative view towards socialism.

Simply having a negative view of socialism doesn't mean that someone will reject the goals of BLM (racial equality and ending police brutality) when they find out some co-founders have called themselves Marxist. That's an extremely conservative way of thinking.

Quote

Whoever might be linking communism or Marxism to BLM.

I have no idea.

You sincerely have "no idea"? Seems dishonest, really.

Quote

Google search of "BLM ideology." 

Is Google searching "BLM ideology" something that masses of voters will do? Is researching "ideology" something people do who aren't already hardline ideologues?

Dodge dodge.

Quote

Maybe in a few days I will post a thread on the anti western ideology I referenced earlier.  

Or you could just use this one.

[bad_teammate 13132]

9 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Sorry I missed this thread.

I’ve linked this earlier. There’s plenty of other summations online. 

https://revisesociology.com/2014/02/10/marxist-perspective-family/

Can you explain what it is I am supposed to be looking for?

Did you just search "Marxism family" and post literally the first link? lol

Quote

My basic position is BLM founders are free to believe what they want, and free to create organizations to pursue whatever they want, but I suspect many of the people with positive views of them are unaware of their foundational ideology. It runs against what is harming their culture (family structure) and what many of them would agree with spiritually.

You still haven't explained this.

[GRHorn 105]

9 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Can you explain what it is I am supposed to be looking for?

Did you just search "Marxism family" and post literally the first link? Lol

Why do I need to explain it to you? You know how to read and I have a feeling you what it says anyway. 
 

10 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Can you explain what it is I am supposed to be looking for?

Did you just search "Marxism family" and post literally the first link? lol

You still haven't explained this.

I feel like I’ve been clear. 9 out of 10 readers of this and the other thread know what I’ve said and have been saying about BLM and their views regarding the family structure for a few weeks now. I’m not sure what point you want to parse out of this, but I’m losing interest. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

18 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Why do I need to explain it to you? You know how to read and I have a feeling you what it says anyway. 

I did read it and I don't know how it establishes that Marxism is "antagonistic to the family structure".

I think what you did was search "Marxism family" and then posted the first link, hoping that would accomplish something.

54 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

I could give more polls and more detailed breakdown, but I'm losing interest.

20 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I’m not sure what point you want to parse out of this, but I’m losing interest. 

 

[Brothahorn 10085]

The problem with the formal BLM movement is that they don't give a shit about 'black lives'. Unless they are killed by a cop or regular white person, that black life don't matter. There is no money/attention/status in the black on black violence. It's as if it's expected, so why demand better. Until 'ALL' Black Lives Matter, it's just a catchy slogan and a way to push shitty liberal politics. 

So when the compromised negroes and chicken shit racists show up in this thread, ask them why they don't have same energy for these kids..

as they do for George Floyd. They will give you a bunch of bullshit answers. Ask them where the Facebook/Twitter/Instagram posts/videos are decrying this violence. Ask them what they are doing to save All Black Lives. Ask them where the marches and community organizing is for these kids. Not just the ones, that garner attention. The truth is simple. Money/Attention/Status don't come from Black on Black violence. Benjamin Crump isn't a household name because he is fighting for justice. He is a household name because he is fighting for attention.

Also, start talking about Black on Black violence and you have to start discussing the policies that got us here. And the chicken shit racists do not want to have those conversations.

Maybe they are Marxists, maybe not. But they damn sure don't care about 'All' Black Lives. They are grifters in the same vein as Shaun King and Tariq Nasheed.

This child is scarred for life. And her black father is gone. Where are the donations and tweets? Where are the national calls for justice? Don't ALL Black Lives Matter?

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Brothahorn

[GRHorn 105]

27 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

The problem with the formal BLM movement is that they don't give a shit about 'black lives'. Unless they are killed by a cop or regular white person, that black life don't matter. There is no money/attention/status in the black on black violence. It's as if it's expected, so why demand better. Until 'ALL' Black Lives Matter, it's just a catchy slogan and a way to push shitty liberal politics. 

So when the compromised negroes and chicken shit racists show up in this thread, ask them why they don't have same energy for these kids..

as they do for George Floyd. They will give you a bunch of bullshit answers. Ask them where the Facebook/Twitter/Instagram posts/videos are decrying this violence. Ask them what they are doing to save All Black Lives. Ask them where the marches and community organizing is for these kids. Not just the ones, that garner attention. The truth is simple. Money/Attention/Status don't come from Black on Black violence. Benjamin Crump isn't a household name because he is fighting for justice. He is a household name because he is fighting for attention.

Also, start talking about Black on Black violence and you have to start discussing the policies that got us here. And the chicken shit racists do not want to have those conversations.

Maybe they are Marxists, maybe not. But they damn sure don't care about 'All' Black Lives. They are grifters in the same vein as Shaun King and Tariq Nasheed.

This child is scarred for life. And her black father is gone. Where are the donations and tweets? Where are the national calls for justice? Don't ALL Black Lives Matter?

 

 

 

I hope this post will be treated well. If you posted this on Twitter you’d be called all kinds of horrible names. 
 

i guess it’s political reasons that only right wing sites post this?

 

why would no left wing site post this video showing how fucking terrible it is for this poor family? I looked. Is it because it’s a result of some stupid fucking policies where we disregard the law? They know it’s terrible. Glossed over, no doubt. 

[maninblack 7974]

The Marxism seems to inform it's mission not conflict with it.

[bad_teammate 13132]

30 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Until 'ALL' Black Lives Matter, it's just a catchy slogan and a way to push shitty liberal politics. 

....

Also, start talking about Black on Black violence and you have to start discussing the policies that got us here. And the chicken shit racists do not want to have those conversations.

Which one is it? Are they trying to push for political solutions to the problems or are they not wanting to talk about political solutions to the problems? You can't have both of those.

Is shooting people who cross barriers at protests a BLM tactic? Is it something they advocate? Because if it isn't, I'm not sure this tragic killing of a beautiful little girl is an indictment of BLM, whose focus is on government and policy.

Quote

This child is scarred for life. And her black father is gone. Where are the donations and tweets? Where are the national calls for justice? Don't ALL Black Lives Matter?

Do you think the BLM movement, at large, is happy with this girl's killing? Do you think they think it's good or even OK? Do you actually, sincerely believe that?

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

why would no left wing site post this video showing how fucking terrible it is for this poor family? I looked. Is it because it’s a result of some stupid fucking policies where we disregard the law? They know it’s terrible. Glossed over, no doubt. 

Because this tragic killing isn't an example of what the protest movement is focusing on, which is state oppression.

I guess you could argue that they shouldn't focus on state oppression, but it's a little misguided to look at a duck and demand to know why it's not a chicken.

[GRHorn 105]

20 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I hope this post will be treated well. If you posted this on Twitter you’d be called all kinds of horrible names. 
 

i guess it’s political reasons that only right wing sites post this?

 

why would no left wing site post this video showing how fucking terrible it is for this poor family? I looked. Is it because it’s a result of some stupid fucking policies where we disregard the law? They know it’s terrible. Glossed over, no doubt. 

While I’m at it, I think a decent amount of the media publicity that BLM gets is because they push the gay and trans angles pretty hard, im assuming due to the founders. 
 

Like Dave Chappelle says white gay guys (in the media) are vital because they say, get in the car we know how to get where we’re going. 

[Brothahorn 10085]

30 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I hope this post will be treated well. If you posted this on Twitter you’d be called all kinds of horrible names. 
 

i guess it’s political reasons that only right wing sites post this?

 

why would no left wing site post this video showing how fucking terrible it is for this poor family? I looked. Is it because it’s a result of some stupid fucking policies where we disregard the law? They know it’s terrible. Glossed over, no doubt. 

I've been called every type of nigga in the book to my face and I didn't have a problem until they spit on me(family member). I'm way past caring about internet names. What's right is right.

[Brothahorn 10085]

52 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Which one is it? Are they trying to push for political solutions to the problems or are they not wanting to talk about political solutions to the problems? You can't have both of those.

Is shooting people who cross barriers at protests a BLM tactic? Is it something they advocate? Because if it isn't, I'm not sure this tragic killing of a beautiful little girl is an indictment of BLM, whose focus is on government and policy.

Do you think the BLM movement, at large, is happy with this girl's killing? Do you think they think it's good or even OK? Do you actually, sincerely believe that?

Because this tragic killing isn't an example of what the protest movement is focusing on, which is state oppression.

I guess you could argue that they shouldn't focus on state oppression, but it's a little misguided to look at a duck and demand to know why it's not a chicken.

They are pushing political solutions that agree with their platform. Not advocating for solutions that match the slogan.

Need link/context for the 2nd question. 

I don't think they are happy. I just think they don't care. There is nothing to gain from her death. Follow the money. There is money to be made from misery.

 

While I will never agree with BT's gun views. At least he has internet balls to post his politcical opinions, and not give a damn.

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Brothahorn

[BigHorn'13 3354]

Holy shit. We're still talking past each other. Just say you have concerns about the organization's founders and direction the organization is taking. Stop deliberately going around the true essence of that statement just because of the people it's coming from. Study, research, visit neighborhoods and talk to people you wouldn't ordinarily talk to. But make sure you listen. We are not listening to each other right now. 

@Brothahorn, I can see where you're coming from but just as much as you don't want people to fall under the democratic guise of "if you're black, you vote Democrat" you shouldn't want yourself or others to fall victim to propaganda from the right-- and maybe you aren't. Point is that the message itself shouldn't be politicized. My fucking heart's broken as a father and as someone who lost an almost 2y/o nephew to murder for those kids pictured. Their lives matter to me just as much as mine and my son's does and I know all to well what their family will now live with without that precious life. 

 

I posted it in another thread but I strongly urge any and everyone to watch this documentary from 2016 on Netflix called 13th. Here's the trailer. 

 

Turns out they've got the whole movie on YouTube as well

Educate yourselves on why we are where we are today. There's no shame in learning something, even when it runs contrary to what you grew up believing. We see it right now with our own university. More and more people are starting to look into the history of their immediate surroundings and discover all the tragedies, as well as triumphs, that have helped shape their environment. This is a good thing as it's forcing people to confront history as it was. Not as they perceive it. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by BigHorn'13

[fattyflattie 4636]

That video is terrible. Godammit. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by fattyflattie
The drive by.

[Brothahorn 10085]

46 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Holy shit. We're still talking past each other. Just say you have concerns about the organization's founders and direction the organization is taking. Stop deliberately going around the true essence of that statement just because of the people it's coming from. Study, research, visit neighborhoods and talk to people you wouldn't ordinarily talk to. But make sure you listen. We are not listening to each other right now. 

@Brothahorn, I can see where you're coming from but just as much as you don't want people to fall under the democratic guise of "if you're black, you vote Democrat" you shouldn't want yourself or others to fall victim to propaganda from the right-- and maybe you aren't. Point is that the message itself shouldn't be politicized. My fucking heart's broken as a father and as someone who lost an almost 2y/o nephew to murder for those kids pictured. Their lives matter to me just as much as mine and my son's does and I know all to well what their family will now live with without that precious life. 

 

I posted it in another thread but I strongly urge any and everyone to watch this documentary from 2016 on Netflix called 13th. Here's the trailer. 

 

Turns out they've got the whole movie on YouTube as well

Educate yourselves on why we are where we are today. There's no shame in learning something, even when it runs contrary to what you grew up believing. We see it right now with our own university. More and more people are starting to look into the history of their immediate surroundings and discover all the tragedies, as well as triumphs, that have helped shape their environment. This is a good thing as it's forcing people to confront history as it was. Not as they perceive it. 

@BigHorn'13 If any of my posts came off as advocating for any political party, then I haven't been doing it right. My Bad. While I am a conservative, I have tried to stay true to my beliefs regardless of party.  I came from a time when blue dog democrats were a real thing. I expect more from the democrats because they promise more. And deliver less. I'm demanding that the black community(along with the rest of the minorities) get their monies worth. Or at least what what was promised. #MAKETHEVOTECOUNT

Edited July 9, 2020 by Brothahorn

[Rougarou 594]

#TeamTerryCrews

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 hour ago, Brothahorn said:

They are pushing political solutions that agree with their platform. Not advocating for solutions that match the slogan.

I would imagine that they have the positions they do because they believe those positions help solve the problems they are outlining, right? I mean, why else do they have the positions?

Quote

Need link/context for the 2nd question. 

How is the murder of this girl the responsibility or fault of BLM? Why is it about that organization?

The parents/family of the girl are in pain, but as is often the case, the people in pain aren't exactly the ones to make the most immediately cogent and relevant political and policy analysis... because they're hurting and looking for answers/responsible parties. We should listen and hear them and sympathize, but just because they're mad at BLM regarding the girl's death doesn't mean it was actually BLM's fault.

Quote

I don't think they are happy. I just think they don't care. There is nothing to gain from her death. Follow the money. There is money to be made from misery.

Do you actually think the black leadership of BLM sees the murder of this girl and thinks, "Meh, who cares?"

[Dbeasy 14969]

[mention=4343]Axiom of Choice[/mention] invited a new thread where he will elucidate his specific thoughts regarding the title question.
I, for one, am eager to hear how the Marxism of BLM's co-founders interacts with the goal of black liberation.
He assures me they are in conflict, and I invite him to this space to educate me.
Anyone else is free to hold forth on the topic as well, of course.

[Catdaddyhorn 3444]

4 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

The problem with the formal BLM movement is that they don't give a shit about 'black lives'. Unless they are killed by a cop or regular white person, that black life don't matter. There is no money/attention/status in the black on black violence. It's as if it's expected, so why demand better. Until 'ALL' Black Lives Matter, it's just a catchy slogan and a way to push shitty liberal politics. 

So when the compromised negroes and chicken shit racists show up in this thread, ask them why they don't have same energy for these kids..

as they do for George Floyd. They will give you a bunch of bullshit answers. Ask them where the Facebook/Twitter/Instagram posts/videos are decrying this violence. Ask them what they are doing to save All Black Lives. Ask them where the marches and community organizing is for these kids. Not just the ones, that garner attention. The truth is simple. Money/Attention/Status don't come from Black on Black violence. Benjamin Crump isn't a household name because he is fighting for justice. He is a household name because he is fighting for attention.

Also, start talking about Black on Black violence and you have to start discussing the policies that got us here. And the chicken shit racists do not want to have those conversations.

Maybe they are Marxists, maybe not. But they damn sure don't care about 'All' Black Lives. They are grifters in the same vein as Shaun King and Tariq Nasheed.

This child is scarred for life. And her black father is gone. Where are the donations and tweets? Where are the national calls for justice? Don't ALL Black Lives Matter?

 

 

 

I'm confused by you. For the most part I've always viewed you as a brotha who came to your conservative views from a black perspective ala Malcom X or the panthers or something along those lines. In other words, I've looked at you as someone who has a genuine concern for our people, but a fervent distrust of the government and their motives due to its racist history. I gathered that your strong independent streak where you'd rather they not bother us anymore and leave us be also framed your politics. This is the type of black conservationism I'm familiar with and probably makes up a significant % of black folks I know over 50. The performative bullshit that Pancho used to post on here with wasn't shaped in any serious manner by being a black man in America. Most black conservatives I know arrive at somewhat conventionally conservative beliefs but by unconventional means due to the black experiential framing that informs those beliefs. This is the category I've always put you in. (Contrary to popular belief there are plenty of conservative black folks who fit the above description, but simply can't tolerate the aggressively racist ass party [democrats' racism is decidedly less aggressive to most black folks] like what the republicans have put forth over the past 40 or 50 years)

But when you go off ranting with this bullshit and this ridiculous ass construction that you know isn't true, it makes me wonder if partisanship has just gotten the better of you. There are so many anti-violence programs in and around every church or neighborhood group I've ever been in that I lose count. This notion that real life black people don't care about violence in our communities is so utterly preposterous that I can't believe that a real live black man, who knows better, would even pretend to feign that it's true. One of my brother's friends who was from right here in Houston was killed a few years back up in Chicago while she was literally walking back from an anti-violence meeting. Don't fall for the tripe that gets publicized, over the years there are orders of magnitude more people who have been putting in work on the anti-violence front than all of black lives matter put together times 10. And beyond that, crime in generationally (and purposefully) impoverished areas shouldn't be a surprise anyone. Fix the core issues and the crime will diminish significantly. Kicking the can down the road while preaching on the periphery about symptomatic issues rather than the lack options and something to alleviate the sheer desperation and trauma that is always present will get us nowhere . 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Catdaddyhorn

[Brothahorn 10085]

Step back and get out of your feelings. Re-read what I posted. I said the 'formal' BLM does not care about ALL BLM. I've spoken and worked with folks up down 45. I know there are people who do care and put in work. But I wouldn't even classify them as part of the BLM movement because their politics and work don't jive with what you see on CNN/Fox. With 21st century technology you don't need the formal media to voice your opinion.  So I stand by what I said because the national organization and celebrities who give money/publicize the slogans, do not care. Nor will they ever care, because it will never be a problem for them.

There is no reason for those black children to die, like that and there not be a national outcry. Damn the politics. Unless it is because of politics, that we can't have that discussion. And we can't fix the core issues, unless we are willing to put the whole plate on the table. We can go kill or lock up every racist out there, and then what?

 

 

[Bateshorn 9899]

Waking up to threads positing that BLM is a Marxist plot and also black conservatives don’t have enough voice is certainly something.

[Thatguy 8502]

The problem with the formal BLM movement is that they don't give a shit about 'black lives'. Unless they are killed by a cop or regular white person, that black life don't matter. There is no money/attention/status in the black on black violence. It's as if it's expected, so why demand better. Until 'ALL' Black Lives Matter, it's just a catchy slogan and a way to push shitty liberal politics. 
So when the compromised negroes and chicken shit racists show up in this thread, ask them why they don't have same energy for these kids..

as they do for George Floyd. They will give you a bunch of bullshit answers. Ask them where the Facebook/Twitter/Instagram posts/videos are decrying this violence. Ask them what they are doing to save All Black Lives. Ask them where the marches and community organizing is for these kids. Not just the ones, that garner attention. The truth is simple. Money/Attention/Status don't come from Black on Black violence. Benjamin Crump isn't a household name because he is fighting for justice. He is a household name because he is fighting for attention.
Also, start talking about Black on Black violence and you have to start discussing the policies that got us here. And the chicken shit racists do not want to have those conversations.
Maybe they are Marxists, maybe not. But they damn sure don't care about 'All' Black Lives. They are grifters in the same vein as Shaun King and Tariq Nasheed.
This child is scarred for life. And her black father is gone. Where are the donations and tweets? Where are the national calls for justice? Don't ALL Black Lives Matter?
 
 
 

Where to start?

BLM always ends up with someone pointing to black on black crime. Black people absolutely care about black on black crime. However, as I am sure has been explained, when black people kill black people they are convicted. However, far too often when it's something else the people walk free.

Since this is a political thread. I was explaining this to a conservative friend of mine the other day. If Black America helps this country become a Socialist State, it will be at the feet of Conservatives who continue to champion there is no systemic racism, police brutality is false, and black people play the victim. The saying the enemy of your enemy is your friend applies here, as Socialists are welcoming the Black Community with open arms. The move would be to listen to the community and initiate change, but instead that large sect of Conservatives has doubled down. So if it happens, look no further than that as to why. Also, this current regime is turning off more than just us, but educated whites as well. It's kind of amazing to be honest.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

7 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Where to start?

BLM always ends up with someone pointing to black on black crime. Black people absolutely care about black on black crime. However, as I am sure has been explained, when black people kill black people they are convicted. However, far too often when it's something else the people walk free.

Since this is a political thread. I was explaining this to a conservative friend of mine the other day. If Black America helps this country become a Socialist State, it will be at the feet of Conservatives who continue to champion there is no systemic racism, police brutality is false, and black people play the victim. The saying the enemy of your enemy is your friend applies here, as Socialists are welcoming the Black Community with open arms. The move would be to listen to the community and initiate change, but instead that large sect of Conservatives has doubled down. So if it happens, look no further than that as to why. Also, this current regime is turning off more than just us, but educated whites as well. It's kind of amazing to be honest.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

They aren’t moving us toward socialism- if anything they are saving us from socialism.  They have an outsized influence in picking who is the Democratic candidate for president because of structural issues in the primary. They are she rocks on which the far left dreams are dashed in most elections. 
as much as the Average GOP might want to rage against the “black voter” as a single monolith that won’t vote for them, they are the largest voice of moderation in the D party. 

[TheStoicPaisano 9904]

14 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Black Americans are not going to move this country towards socialism.  The large majority of them do not want to move towards socialism.  This is a fantasy that leftists want to believe. The socialist candidate in the democratic primary did absolutely terrible with black voters.  

That poll was taken the last week of Feb. I can’t believe lockdown/UBI/BLM/wave II would have a net zero change if the poll was to be retaken.

Republicans have lost the WPOC/most highly educated demo for a generation. A spectacular own goal.