Brothahorn's Conservative Thread

[Message Board User 12395]

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

 

It's easy for some of us to argue against school choice while our kids attend good public schools or private schools but there are a lot of kids in some shittastic public schools that could use an escape exit.

An absolutely reasonable and appropriately nuanced take.  
 

What’s it doing in the Cloak Room?

[elfenix 34227]

1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

An absolutely reasonable and appropriately nuanced take.  
 

What’s it doing in the Cloak Room?

you've got us confused for DT

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

 

 

 

lulz at this board. if you're in austin i can arrange a tour of one for you. 

Great. How much do you charge a tour?

Like I said, they aren’t the worst thing. They’re just not worth all of our money. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Open up a private school and charge discounted tuition then. It’s a free country. 

[Message Board User 12395]

2 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

 

 

 

lulz at this board. if you're in austin i can arrange a tour of one for you. 

It’s fairly obvious that many of these anti-charters have never actually set foot inside a charter school.

The charter school my kid is going to is located in a tiny building (my first thought upon seeing it for the first time was is this it?) and there is not even monkey bars for playground equipment.  In fact there’s no playground at all.  No tablets.   No cafeteria.  And the education my kid was receiving pre-Covid was light years ahead of his public school.

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

It’s fairly obvious that many of these anti-charters have never actually set foot inside a charter school.

The charter school my kid is going to is located in a tiny building (my first thought upon seeing it for the first time was is this it?) and there is not even monkey bars for playground equipment.  In fact there’s no playground at all.  No tablets.   No cafeteria.  And the education my kid was receiving pre-Covid was light years ahead of his public school.

And who exactly is paying for this charter school? 

[Bozo_Casanova 26437]

5 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

It’s fairly obvious that many of these anti-charters have never actually set foot inside a charter school.

The charter school my kid is going to is located in a tiny building (my first thought upon seeing it for the first time was is this it?) and there is not even monkey bars for playground equipment.  In fact there’s no playground at all.  No tablets.   No cafeteria.  And the education my kid was receiving pre-Covid was light years ahead of his public school.

Can we please stop conflating public charter schools with private schools with in-district charter schools?

[GRHorn 105]

54 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

@ChiTownDoc @Sawbonz @trauma babe @GRHorn

If y'all wouldn't mind explain the question at hand of how a heart beats, it isn't attached, and the "fetus" is dead? The only thing I can think of is brain dead, but technically that wouldn't be dead. 

No, that doesn’t make sense. That’s as far as I’m wading into abortion debate today. 

[Continental Op 3934]

Let's just give the Wilmer-Hutchins kids vouchers so they can escape their horrible schools and go to Jesuit or Ursuline! 

[hobbes2702 13029]

19 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

 

 

 

lulz at this board. if you're in austin i can arrange a tour of one for you. 

I don’t need a tour but it’s funny you think that’s relevant 

[Bozo_Casanova 26437]

3 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

Let's just give the Wilmer-Hutchins kids vouchers so they can escape their horrible schools and go to Jesuit or Ursuline! 

Greenhill for everyone!

[GRHorn 105]

49 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's my question to @JBJ and @GRHorn. I oppose sending public money to private schools. Is there a compelling state interest? You tell me. And can one of you prove to me that doing so would do more good than harm?

Also, I disagree with the premise embedded in your response and this whole issue, really - that a lack of cost pressure at the campus level is the fundamental problem with schools in poor and minority neighborhoods that education policy can address, which is really what we are talking about.
I'm for innovation at the district level, including some public charters, depending on the specifics. But just giving away public money to a select few kids while others are deprived of the opportunity to succeed is bad policy that makes it harder for poor kids to improve their station. 

My stance is, in the case of public education, there is a compelling interest in there being other options for parents and kids in lower income areas.  It’s been shown in some studies I’ve linked from a libertarian (not blood sucking Republican) website that it improves outcomes for minority children that are enrolled. Can I prove that on the whole it does more good than harm for those communities? I don’t know. Probably not to your satisfaction or we wouldn’t be here. Can you prove that they on the whole do more harm than good?

They’re options for poor kis and their parents that want better for them and they appear to be helping those that can get in them. Yes they provide competition and opportunity for some innovation. That’s it. 

As far as only select kids getting in and benefitting, i don’t know how to best address that. I guess if we could find enough blood suckers to get into this thriving industry (I realize you haven’t called them that), then we could expand the numbers. Perhaps a campaign advertising just how profitable and devious the business is could attract them. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

6 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I don’t need a tour but it’s funny you think that’s relevant 

general information is typically relevant to someone as generally ignorant on the subject as you.  (as bozo alludes to above, it's not really clear you even know what a charter school is)

 

here are the "grifters" for one charter around here.  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LX4HfEDY7EaVkIqr0rTX6F3cC1ihVVMyCKbHvsao0uo/edit Feel free to investigate how these ladies are gettin' rich off the system

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That's my question to @JBJ and @GRHorn. I oppose sending public money to private schools. Is there a compelling state interest? You tell me. And can one of you prove to me that doing so would do more good than harm?

Also, I disagree with the premise embedded in your response and this whole issue, really - that a lack of cost pressure at the campus level is the fundamental problem with schools in poor and minority neighborhoods that education policy can address, which is really what we are talking about.
I'm for innovation at the district level, including some public charters, depending on the specifics. But just giving away public money to a select few kids while others are deprived of the opportunity to succeed is bad policy that makes it harder for poor kids to improve their station. 

Yeah- man- I think the school problem is unsolvable at a local level of you have a community that doesn’t give a shit about education.  Are there a precious few teachers who can motivate some of the kids like you see in Hollywood? Maybe?  Is a super human effort by some one off really talented people a system that’s replicable and we should rely on?

No, no chance at all. 
So, if you believe the problem isn’t money, or color, or facilities or poverty, as I do, and it’s engagement, modeling and behavior then those that want to get out through a school choice program can and do and at least some people educate themselves out of a bad situation. And maybe if that happens enough times and enough different places that has a positive impact in the community and engagement gets better as a virtuous cycle. 
What we are doing isn’t working and the school systems that aren’t performing are on fire and failing our kids in a real way that you or I would never dream about. And they are failing all of them. 
What I’m saying is I’d like to see those that don’t want to fail and are willing to cooperate and put in the effort given the opportunity to get out, and then worry about the rest later. It’s a life raft for a sinking ocean liner. It doesn’t solve the problem of the sinking ship but it does rescue as many as the life raft will hold. 
I love places like KiPP. They really work. But they work because the parents and kids agree that they are going to put in the work to try. I want us to not fail any kid that wants to try before I worry about fixing the entirety of the system, and I’m open to literally any idea to fixing the entirety of the system because we can’t be about equality of opportunity and basic decency without giving everyone a shot, but I want whatever kids are willing to work given a lifeboat right damn now, and I think school choice can serve as that lifeboat. 

[wildcat09 29347]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah- man- I think the school problem is unsolvable at a local level of you have a community that doesn’t give a shit about education.  Are there a precious few teachers who can motivate some of the kids like you see in Hollywood? Maybe?  Is a super human effort by some one off really talented people a system that’s replicable and we should rely on?

No, no chance at all. 
So, if you believe the problem isn’t money, or color, or facilities or poverty, as I do, and it’s engagement, modeling and behavior then those that want to get out through a school choice program can and do and at least some people educate themselves out of a bad situation. And maybe if that happens enough times and enough different places that has a positive impact in the community and engagement gets better as a virtuous cycle. 
What we are doing isn’t working and the school systems that aren’t performing are on fire and failing our kids in a real way that you or I would never dream about. And they are failing all of them. 
What I’m saying is I’d like to see those that don’t want to fail and are willing to cooperate and put in the effort given the opportunity to get out, and then worry about the rest later. It’s a life raft for a sinking ocean liner. It doesn’t solve the problem of the sinking ship but it does rescue as many as the life raft will hold. 
I love places like KiPP. They really work. But they work because the parents and kids agree that they are going to put in the work to try. I want us to not fail any kid that wants to try before I worry about fixing the entirety of the system, and I’m open to literally any idea to fixing the entirety of the system because we can’t be about equality of opportunity and basic decency without giving everyone a shot, but I want whatever kids are willing to work given a lifeboat right damn now, and I think school choice can serve as that lifeboat. 

I'm very curious about why you don't think poverty is the problem. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm very curious about why you don't think poverty is the problem. 

Poor kids aren’t inherently incapable of learning or succeeding. Give me a poor kid with two parents that work hard and expect their kid to go to school and learn and they will conquer the world. We’ve shown that through the entirety of our countries history and it’s the best thing about America. Give me even one parent that is legit on them and they will get through. 
make nobody give a shit about education and it doesn’t work. 
 

[wildcat09 29347]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Poor kids aren’t inherently incapable of learning or succeeding. Give me a poor kid with two parents that work hard and expect their kid to go to school and learn and they will conquer the world. We’ve shown that through the entirety of our countries history and it’s the best thing about America. Give me even one parent that is legit on them and they will get through. 
make nobody give a shit about education and it doesn’t work. 
 

C'mon man, this is just like motivation-poster level thinking. There are a myriad number of ways that poverty makes it much harder for children to succeed and this type of thinking just pretends they don't exist and blames children (and their hard-working parents) for their own inability to succeed in a game that is massively rigged against them. 

[Rougarou 594]

14 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Poor kids aren’t inherently incapable of learning or succeeding. Give me a poor kid with two parents that work hard and expect their kid to go to school and learn and they will conquer the world. We’ve shown that through the entirety of our countries history and it’s the best thing about America. Give me even one parent that is legit on them and they will get through. 
make nobody give a shit about education and it doesn’t work. 
 

100% agree with you.

However, I think the point wildcat is making (and I could be wrong or putting words in his mouth) is that what you are talking about is rare because poverty is such a devil that it robs and steals and kills for the most part atmosphere's where a) there are two parents and b) there is hard work directed at schooling.

Heck I actually have to own up and make a hard confession and look at the mirror. I'm relatively privileged with some decent coin and I work hard, but covid-19 has shown me that I actually don't work that hard/care that much about education for my children. I'm not putting the Herculean time/effort to school my kids when their school shut down and had 2 hour zoom meetings (worthless) and busy work via apps (class dojo, etc.). I'm not dedicating time away from my 9a-9p job to educate and not putting the hours in the evening to because of my self-centered excuses of 1) I have a 12 hour day job and that's why I make the money I do and 2) I'm too tired.

I'm having to look in the mirror and realize that I actually do not value all that much the schooling my kids are (or are not, in 2020) getting. That's a weird feeling.

Now, we expect people of less comforts to do all that I-- with a full belly and money in the bank for emergencies--won't do? We expect people beaten down by the world to not view public schools as an entitlement to teach kids the skills they need to be productive members of society, when that is exactly what I do and am annoyed that the school I pay for is not doing it and requesting I take back over the reins until we have a vaccine?

But then again, maybe if necessity really is the mother of all invention, the crucible of poverty will give the motivation and extra gear to prepare kids in a way that my pudgy, suburban ennui cannot muster.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Rougarou

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

C'mon man, this is just like motivation-poster level thinking. There are a myriad number of ways that poverty makes it much harder for children to succeed and this type of thinking just pretends they don't exist and blames children (and their hard-working parents) for their own inability to succeed in a game that is massively rigged against them. 

I’m not blaming anyone. I’m saying I’ve seen it with my own eyes that none of that other shit can stop someone from learning and succeeding if they want to and put in the effort. And, schools like KIPP, which require that to be put in or they get rid of the kids kick ass and have much better levels of success than do regular schools. It’s awesome and inspiring what they do. 
I want every kid that wants to work to have a path to a place like KIPP or a private school and I want them to be there as long as they put in the work and abide by the terms of the deal. 
mans that’s not me blaming anyone who doesn’t have the wherewithal or desire to overcome a tough situation. That’s me saying if the roof is on fire the first thing I do is rescue the kids, the next thing the pets, then I start putting out the fire on the roof after that. 
The system needs a redesign. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Nivek 16923]

[mention=2289]ChiTownDoc[/mention] [mention=20]Sawbonz[/mention] [mention=831]trauma babe[/mention] [mention=1446]GRHorn[/mention]
If y'all wouldn't mind explain the question at hand of how a heart beats, it isn't attached, and the "fetus" is dead? The only thing I can think of is brain dead, but technically that wouldn't be dead. 

I suppose he could be out practicing law somewhere.

[Nivek 16923]

I’m not blaming anyone. I’m saying I’ve seen it with my own eyes that none of that other shit can stop someone from learning and succeeding if they want to and put in the effort. And, schools like KIPP, which require that to be put in or they get rid of the kids kick ass and have much better levels of success than do regular schools. It’s awesome and inspiring what they do. 
I want every kid that wants to work to have a path to a place like KIPP or a private school and I want them to be there as long as they put in the work and abide by the terms of the deal. 
mans that’s not me blaming anyone who doesn’t have the wherewithal or desire to overcome a tough situation. That’s me saying if the roof is on fire the first thing I do is rescue the kids, the next thing the pets, then I start putting out the fire on the roof after that. 
The system needs a redesign. 

There are different circumstances within poverty. In one case, you have a parent who stresses a better option for their kid and is involved as much as possible and a good role model.

You have others whom are in and out of school, facing evictions, with parents that prioritize chores over school.

Families with kids with LD also struggle to assist the other kids simply because of the lack of time or resources, or knowledge to get the aid they need for their kid.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

3 minutes ago, Nivek said:

There are different circumstances within poverty. In one case, you have a parent who stresses a better option for their kid and is involved as much as possible and a good role model.

You have others whom are in and out of school, facing evictions, with parents that prioritize chores over school.

Families with kids with LD also struggle to assist the other kids simply because of the lack of time or resources, or knowledge to get the aid they need for their kid.

Absolutely!  And I’m not blaming anyone. I just want everyone in scenario #1 and a failing school that wants out to get out. Aid means test the shit out of this. I’m talking like 40 or 50k before you start losing most of the incentive, with it phased out completely at 60 or 70k. 

[wildcat09 29347]

2 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

100% agree with you.

However, I think the point wildcat is making (and I could be wrong or putting words in his mouth) is that what you are talking about is rare because poverty is such a devil that it robs and steals and kills for the most part atmosphere's where a) there are two parents and b) there is hard work directed at schooling.

Heck I actually have to own up and make a hard confession and look at the mirror. I'm relatively privileged with some decent coin and I work hard, but covid-19 has shown me that I actually don't work that hard/care that much about education for my children. I'm not putting the Herculean time/effort to school my kids when their school shut down and had 2 hour zoom meetings (worthless) and busy work via apps (class dojo, etc.). I'm not dedicating time away from my 9a-9p job to educate and not putting the hours in the evening to because of my self-centered excuses of 1) I have a 12 hour day job and that's why I make the money I do and 2) I'm too tired.

I'm having to look in the mirror and realize that I actually do not value all that much the schooling my kids are (or are not, in 2020) getting. That's a weird feeling.

Now, we expect people of less comforts to do all that I-- with a full belly and money in the bank for emergencies-- won't do? We expect people beaten down by the world to not view public schools as an entitlement to teach kids the skills they need to be productive members of society, when that is exactly what I do and am annoyed that the school I pay for is not doing it and requesting I take back over the reins until we have a vaccine. 

But then again, maybe if necessity really is the mother of all invention, the crucible of poverty will give the motivation and extra gear to prepare kids in a way that my pudgy, suburban ennui cannot muster.

That's a part of it, but it's much bigger than that. Wulaw says in the post below this one that he sees success stories, and that's great that some exist, but I think he's missing the forest on this. There are probably hundreds of studies now that clearly demonstrate the toll that merely living in poverty takes on the mental health of both children and adults. We're talking about immense and constant stress that just destroys one's ability to deal with anything but surviving from minute to minute and day to day. Childhood poverty is literally a disease that damages children's brains and fucks up their hormonal systems. Over 10 million children in America live in poverty today. That number is increasing or about to increase substantially. The overwhelming majority of them will be forever harmed by their exposure to poverty in ways the rest of us will never really be able to comprehend. And yet too many people, even those with kind hearts, see that a few children are able to overcome the enormous obstacles put in their way and just figure "oh well those that don't make it had bad parents and/or didn't really want it hard enough" and essentially write them off.

The truth is that they don't make it because our society destroys any realistic chance of more than maybe 5% of them "making it" in any sense of that phrase that matters, because we're basically fine with widespread child poverty as one of the costs of the many comforts the rest of us enjoy. And I'm as guilty of that as anyone else. I can't imagine what the stress of growing up in poverty would have done to me but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be a well-compensated lawyer right now. I didn't have to work that hard to make it, nor did most of my friends (basically all of whom have post-grad degrees of some kind). Oh sure, we'll tell you law school or med school or grad school was hard, but none of us starved. None of us worried about finding shelter. None of us worried about our undocumented parents being arrested and deported. Etc. I imagine what that would've been like, and figure the nightmare that is that imagination is probably only about 50% at most of the real experience. I think on that for a few minutes and it makes me really angry that anybody would just dismiss some 12 year old who has never known anything else for not wanting to succeed enough at school or something. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26437]

 

36 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Poor kids aren’t inherently incapable of learning or succeeding. Give me a poor kid with two parents that work hard and expect their kid to go to school and learn and they will conquer the world. We’ve shown that through the entirety of our countries history and it’s the best thing about America. Give me even one parent that is legit on them and they will get through. 
make nobody give a shit about education and it doesn’t work. 
 

Well, do you think cost pressuring a public school at the campus level addresses that problem or makes it worse?
AND

If a kid gets a scholarship to a private school at the cost of incremental funding a local campus, do you think it's more likely to a poor kid with parent(s) who care or one of the kids whose parents are less involved?

 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

41 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

That's a part of it, but it's much bigger than that. Wulaw says in the post below this one that he sees success stories, and that's great that some exist, but I think he's missing the forest on this. There are probably hundreds of studies now that clearly demonstrate the toll that merely living in poverty takes on the mental health of both children and adults. We're talking about immense and constant stress that just destroys one's ability to deal with anything but surviving from minute to minute and day to day. Childhood poverty is literally a disease that damages children's brains and fucks up their hormonal systems. Over 10 million children in America live in poverty today. That number is increasing or about to increase substantially. The overwhelming majority of them will be forever harmed by their exposure to poverty in ways the rest of us will never really be able to comprehend. And yet too many people, even those with kind hearts, see that a few children are able to overcome the enormous obstacles put in their way and just figure "oh well those that don't make it had bad parents and/or didn't really want it hard enough" and essentially write them off.

The truth is that they don't make it because our society destroys any realistic chance of more than maybe 5% of them "making it" in any sense of that phrase that matters, because we're basically fine with widespread child poverty as one of the costs of the many comforts the rest of us enjoy. And I'm as guilty of that as anyone else. I can't imagine what the stress of growing up in poverty would have done to me but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be a well-compensated lawyer right now. I didn't have to work that hard to make it, nor did most of my friends (basically all of whom have post-grad degrees of some kind). Oh sure, we'll tell you law school or med school or grad school was hard, but none of us starved. None of us worried about finding shelter. None of us worried about our undocumented parents being arrested and deported. Etc. I imagine what that would've been like, and figure the nightmare that is that imagination is probably only about 50% at most of the real experience. I think on that for a few minutes and it makes me really angry that anybody would just dismiss some 12 year old who has never known anything else for not wanting to succeed enough at school or something. 

You are misunderstanding me (which probably means I’m doing a shitty job of explaining myself). I don’t disagree with any of what you are saying. At all. That’s what I mean when I say the entire system needs an overhaul. 
what I’m saying is that I want to get as many people on a life raft to something better as is possible, as the best immediate action we can take in a shitty situation to help some they can be helped. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

43 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

Well, do you think cost pressuring a public school at the campus level addresses that problem or makes it worse?
AND

If a kid gets a scholarship to a private school at the cost of incremental funding a local campus, do you think it's more likely to a poor kid with parent(s) who care or one of the kids whose parents are less involved?

 

Makes it worse 

poor kid with parental involvement as you have to sign up and jump through some hoops (maybe even interview or Something like that) to get in the program. 

my fundamental goal isn’t to save public education with this (and anyone who says that’s their goal is deluding themselves or you) but rather to save as many kids immediately as I can, before putting out the fire on the roof (massive structural change). 
 

I certainly don’t have the answer to the overhaul. I can tell you what doesn’t work (throwing money at the problem, what we are doing right now with traditional school) but I don’t have a design fix for the entire system. 

[seven 1367]

4 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

 

They can take aggy's share.

There was a thread on ags a few weeks ago asking if they could go private in order to save their Confederate guy statue. 

[F250 28764]

5 minutes ago, seven said:

There was a thread on ags a few weeks ago asking if they could go private in order to save their Confederate guy statue. 

Send them a final payment of $50 million to do it and adios. Then promote TTU to the land grant school provided they swallow UH, TXST and UNT systems.

[Bozo_Casanova 26437]

51 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Makes it worse 

poor kid with parental involvement as you have to sign up and jump through some hoops (maybe even interview or Something like that) to get in the program. 

my fundamental goal isn’t to save public education with this (and anyone who says that’s their goal is deluding themselves or you) but rather to save as many kids immediately as I can, before putting out the fire on the roof (massive structural change). 
 

I certainly don’t have the answer to the overhaul. I can tell you what doesn’t work (throwing money at the problem, what we are doing right now with traditional school) but I don’t have a design fix for the entire system. 

The problems with the current system have less to do with design and everything to do with the politics of public education at the state level. But - the kid you are saving in the example above is the kid who didn't need saving. And in providing that kid with more and better, to your point, you are exacerbating the subset of issues that you can fix with design. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The problems with the current system have less to do with design and everything to do with the politics of public education at the state level. But - the kid you are saving in the example above is the kid who didn't need saving. And in providing that kid with more and better, to your point, you are exacerbating the subset of issues that you can fix with design. 

What are those state level policies ?

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The problems with the current system have less to do with design and everything to do with the politics of public education at the state level. But - the kid you are saving in the example above is the kid who didn't need saving. And in providing that kid with more and better, to your point, you are exacerbating the subset of issues that you can fix with design. 

That kid still needs saving. Start out little caring about and trying and get peer pressured, worn down and worn out and end up not making it like they should. 
The saddest story I ever heard in life was one of my classmates whose dad pissed on her books and told her school wasn’t for her. Like literally pissed on them. 
that’s not solved by private or public, that’s just one of the saddest things I ever was around. She went from honors classes to barely graduating. 
People can be the absolute worst. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26437]

22 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That kid still needs saving. Start out little caring about and trying and get peer pressured, worn down and worn out and end up not making it like they should. 
The saddest story I ever heard in life was one of my classmates whose dad pissed on her books and told her school wasn’t for her. Like literally pissed on them. 
that’s not solved by private or public, that’s just one of the saddest things I ever was around. She went from honors classes to barely graduating. 
People can be the absolute worst. 

Those aren't the kids being diverted to private school. The kids being diverted to private school are, by and large, talented kids whose parents care that would have done well in any environment and improve the environment for less advantaged kids AND their teachers. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Those aren't the kids being diverted to private school. The kids being diverted to private school are, by and large, talented kids whose parents care that would have done well in any environment and improve the environment for less advantaged kids AND their teachers. 

Yeah, that example of one of the sadder things I've ever heard wasn't about public or private, it was more an understanding for the first time in my life maybe (I was 15) that other people didn't have it as well as me in family support and some actually had people actively trying to keep them down.  It was one of the first things so it always stuck with me.

The thing is this is an extreme example, but when I failed 19 kids it was after calling 20 of their parents and saying- your kid is bringing home a work package of all the stuff they didn't do- turn it in and I will pass them don't and they won't- and getting 1 kid turning it in and 19 choosing to fail and their parents to allow that.  How is a school responsible for educating that kid?  How do we get a good outcome out of that?  (hint- we don't).  I don't think you can fix that but like I said, I'm open trying anything, or lots of different anythings.  

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

If we start with the premise that it's totally fucking broken (which I think there are some systems that are) then you can do whatever the fuck you want in setting up a new system to try to take care of everyone, if you just decide to reject the status quo completely.

I guess, maybe, I'd start with the idea we just flat out aren't trying for everyone.  I'd make a bunch of different types of schools, for anyone who wants, will put up with requirements, and behave. I'd basically give up on anyone not in these programs with what essentially amounts to baby sitting them during the school year and just dealing with whatever nonsense they are into.  But the others are going to school like 8-5 or 8-6, 48 or 50 weeks a year, and eating breakfast lunch and dinner there.  They are doing a certain amount of work, and impeccable behavior that won't disrupt the learning environment, or they are gone.  Keep trying to add to the specials and lower the amount of people you are babysitting. 

I know this is antithetical to the way most educators think, but if a school district is failing its' every bad a decision to do nothing as to try to do other stuff and fail. And one of the things I would take a look at privitizing a significant chunk of the system to see if they can do better.  I'd probably turn it into a federalist system where we try a bunch of different ideas and things and see what happens.  

This is probably all dumb.  All I can say is so is what we are doings.  

[Guest]

you're never going to "fix" education without engaged parents.  The solution does not emanate from the state.

 

Get people to wake the fuck up, and watch things change.

 

That being said, detracting from those who need the most in the way of resources or have the longest distance to travel, so to speak, is societal suicide, IMHO>

Edited July 14, 2020 by slorch

[safe sex 11701]

[mention=2289]ChiTownDoc[/mention] [mention=20]Sawbonz[/mention] [mention=831]trauma babe[/mention] [mention=1446]GRHorn[/mention]
If y'all wouldn't mind explain the question at hand of how a heart beats, it isn't attached, and the "fetus" is dead? The only thing I can think of is brain dead, but technically that wouldn't be dead. 

I barely know anything about babies, but I know a lot about people being braindead. I wouldn't and don't consider a braindead person alive in any sort of meaningful or spiritual way, and the body's physiology during and after brain death is markedly different than prior. It's a different state of being imo

[Whatever 700]

I do like the idea, Brothahorn, of a thread specifically for libertarians and independents on here somewhere.  I was a drive-by poster of negativity on anything Obama related for years on TOS.  I was largely silent on political stuff for Trump's first year as well.  I felt his inflated sense of his average intelligence was hilarious, but that most on here were being hyperbolic about how dangerous he was.  But I was completely wrong.  He's beyond incompetent because the incompetent usually give up and move on.  He's doubling down as if to prove a point to his dead parents.  
I let my membership in the Libertarian Party lapse after Amash said he was done.  I've resigned from every Republican Party organization I was appointed to over the last two years.  I'll likely migrate back in a few years down the road but mainly for business purposes.  So technically, I am a man without a country.  A minister without portfolio.  so I applaud your wanting a space in which we can pick on both sides again.  In a race between Dan Patrick and Hillary Clinton, I'd take the NASCAR approach---get drunk and hope they both crash.
It's been exhausting having every two-bit "I'm more patriotic than you" Trumper on many threads accuse of me of being some Anti-American leftist when nothing could be further from the truth.  Likewise, it's annoying as shit to have the resident "enlightened" liberals on here shit on capitalism and accuse me of white privilege.  80 million of us adults did not vote for Clinton nor Trump in 2016.  Now Trumpers think it's because we're lazy brown people.  HRC people think it's because we're apathetic and didn't feel the fervor of her electric aura.  You're both fucking ignorant judgemental pricks.  
I guess one final illustration would be my voting record since I turned 18.  1996-Harry Browne, 2000-George W. Bush, 2004-Michael Bednarik, 2008-Barack Obama, 2012-Gary Johnson, 2016-Gary Johnson, 2020-Joe Biden.  I am not a member of the Democratic Party, I have never been a member of the Democratic Party.  I will never be a member of the Democratic Party.  I am not a particular fan of Joe Biden.  I simply want this madness to end and he's the best chance at it, for now.  
Everybody at the cocktail party is fiscally conservative and socially liberal.  I have committed my political efforts to that precise effect.  But it's futile at this point.  But you and I are both in camps much closer than you realize.  I just feel the need, right now, to shut down the Trump Camp which seems to be fiscally-fucked and socially-hurt-the-dark-people-'cause-heritage.  I didn't even know that was an option on the coordinate grid.  I wouldn't have selected it, but it'd be nice to know it was a 3-dimensional graph, not just the 2-dimensional one we've been presented with since 7th grade algebra.  I mean, the least Christian President that we'll ever see in our lifetimes turns out to be the most beloved by the Evangelicals.  That's insane to me.  
Anyway, hope this thread is something positive on here that we could use right now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GRHorn 105]

In the OP spirit of not wanting to be lumped in with others. 😂 

 

[Message Board User 12395]

2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

In the OP spirit of not wanting to be lumped in with others. 😂 

 

Not a bad tweet for an anti-Semite.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5395]

So did the cops get brothahorn? 

[Guest]

On 7/14/2020 at 1:39 PM, wildcat09 said:

C'mon man, this is just like motivation-poster level thinking. There are a myriad number of ways that poverty makes it much harder for children to succeed and this type of thinking just pretends they don't exist and blames children (and their hard-working parents) for their own inability to succeed in a game that is massively rigged against them. 

massively rigged system= requires effort and attendance.  How terrible.

  More good things happen at schools for many impoverished kids than ever happens at home, and that is tragic/ sad.  It's the truth and it's one of the biggest risks facing society with remote learning coming up for the Fall of 2020.

Obviously, I heartily espouse a deep parental involvement in a child's education.  Poverty doesn't prevent that.  It doesn't mean it's easy; but it's absolutely possible to set and maintain high expectations within the home, even in poverty.

I support public education and probably always will.  i don't support bullshit excuses and crutches for lack of performance both at the school and the individual levels.

[TXSG8R 3362]

17 minutes ago, slorch said:

massively rigged system= requires effort and attendance.  How terrible.

  More good things happen at schools for many impoverished kids than ever happens at home, and that is tragic/ sad.  It's the truth and it's one of the biggest risks facing society with remote learning coming up for the Fall of 2020.

Obviously, I heartily espouse a deep parental involvement in a child's education.  Poverty doesn't prevent that.  It doesn't mean it's easy; but it's absolutely possible to set and maintain high expectations within the home, even in poverty.

I support public education and probably always will.  i don't support bullshit excuses and crutches for lack of performance both at the school and the individual levels.

Trying to parse what you're saying here.  You want to shift more educational responsibility to the parents?  

What happens when the parents tell you to fuck off?  Or when you cant find a parent for days/weeks at a time? What enforcement mechanism do you have?  Why should that child be punished because their parents are giant pieces of shit?  

My wife has worked in a few bad schools.  Lots of kids being raised by grandparents because mom is in jail and dad is MIA.  Lots of kids being raised by drug addicts that barely know their kid exists at times.  Then there are kids of shift workers that want to be engaged, but cant be any real help to their kids due to their schedule.  Lots of parents that only engage to literally fight teachers/admin because their kid got in trouble.  Driving educational responsibility to parents is a complete non-starter.  In a perfect world its a great idea, but in reality you would be punishing a lot of kids who have no choice about their lack of parental involvement.  

[wildcat09 29347]

3 hours ago, slorch said:

massively rigged system= requires effort and attendance.  How terrible.

  More good things happen at schools for many impoverished kids than ever happens at home, and that is tragic/ sad.  It's the truth and it's one of the biggest risks facing society with remote learning coming up for the Fall of 2020.

Obviously, I heartily espouse a deep parental involvement in a child's education.  Poverty doesn't prevent that.  It doesn't mean it's easy; but it's absolutely possible to set and maintain high expectations within the home, even in poverty.

I support public education and probably always will.  i don't support bullshit excuses and crutches for lack of performance both at the school and the individual levels.

Captain Straw Man is at it again, folks.

[horn4life 3759]

THE PRIMARY motivation of the GOP 's support of school vouchers is singularly to give a rebate to folks ALREADY sending their children to private schools.

THE FALSE reason that the GOP uses to support school vouchers is to help poor children from bad public school districts.  To me it is downright fascinating that this is the ONLY area of interest in improving crappy public schools.  IF this were true, then the GOP should push for this legislation with a cap of say $60,000 in household income.  THEN the response is.... Well... that's not fair... to the folks already paying for private schooling.

I wish I was wrong, but I'm not. cutting school budgets and taxes for wealthy folks.  

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Captain Straw Man is at it again, folks.

No sir.  People type that bullshit as if it’s fact.  The system isn’t rigged. 

[Foosters 17843]

Any thoughts from the resident conservatives on their ideological leader's interview with Chris Wallace?

[BradInATX 9208]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

No sir.  People type that bullshit as if it’s fact.  The system isn’t rigged. 

The system isn't necessarily rigged, but the inputs into it are. 

Your post two posts up is about this close to calling them lazy n-words as well, which would be pretty on-brand. There's not a ton of reason to get into this with you as you obviously haven't really researched or educated yourself on this issue in any sort of unbiased fashion. You're essentially denying that systemic biases and disadvantages exist, which is tremendously ignorant.

Edited July 20, 2020 by BradInATX

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

7 hours ago, horn4life said:

THE PRIMARY motivation of the GOP 's support of school vouchers is singularly to give a rebate to folks ALREADY sending their children to private schools.

THE FALSE reason that the GOP uses to support school vouchers is to help poor children from bad public school districts.  To me it is downright fascinating that this is the ONLY area of interest in improving crappy public schools.  IF this were true, then the GOP should push for this legislation with a cap of say $60,000 in household income.  THEN the response is.... Well... that's not fair... to the folks already paying for private schooling.

I wish I was wrong, but I'm not. cutting school budgets and taxes for wealthy folks.  

I’m not saying you are wrong. If I was in charge that‘s the exact way I would do it (vouchers seriously means tested). 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

5 hours ago, BradInATX said:

The system isn't necessarily rigged, but the inputs into it are. 

Your post two posts up is about this close to calling them lazy n-words as well, which would be pretty on-brand. There's not a ton of reason to get into this with you as you obviously haven't really researched or educated yourself on this issue in any sort of unbiased fashion. You're essentially denying that systemic biases and disadvantages exist, which is tremendously ignorant.

I think systematic disadvantages exist. Maybe even systematic biases. I don’t think it’s systematic racism. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

6 hours ago, Foosters said:

Any thoughts from the resident conservatives on their ideological leader's interview with Chris Wallace?

He’s not anyone’s ideological leader bc he has no ideology besides grifting and self aggrandizement. 
when he stumbles into something I agree with ideologically and it gets done I’m happy for the transactions item but embarrassed that he does it in the shittiest and dumbest way possible. 
I’m going to agree with him on more things than Biden, I would suppose, while being way less likely to be embarrassed or disgusted with Joe. 
And when he gets it wrong fuck- it’s a shit show. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Wulaw Horn