Brothahorn's Conservative Thread

[Nivek 16808]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

My issue with conservatism and it’s application in today’s world. 

In theory, there are some good values in conservative beliefs. I would say the majority of my friends, family, and coworkers fall into the conservative crowd. I believe my issue is that in my opinion they tend to focus on one point while ignoring the rest of the issue.

An example would be the police reform issue. They bring up the talking point that black people kill more black people as evidenced by the Chicago killings. People riot when one bad apple kills a “criminal” but no one cares when 30 people are killed in one weekend. My issue with this type of thinking or argument is that it’s disingenuous to the rest of the issue. Yes, there are too many black people getting killed by black people in Chicago and other communities. It’s disingenuous because it attempts to diminish or ignore the hundreds of other data points involved in the discussion, such as black people are 2.5 more likely to be killed by police, broken window policing affects more minorities, and the bail system unfairly burdens minorities. All of that ties into the conversation, but conservatives tend to try and cut the argument down to good and bad. “Killing is bad, therefore black people kill each other, therefore they are the problem, not the police. I’ve never had cops show up to my house because I’ve never committed a crime. Therefore they are committing crimes and are the problem.” It’s a simplistic view of the world that ignores reality. 
 

The same can be said for the Coronavirus issue. People say they can’t believe anything Faucci says because he lied about masks. So everything he says is bullshit. Yes, he admitted to downplaying the importance of masks so the medical community would have them. This doesn’t mean everything else he says is bullshit. They do the same thing about Chloroquine or any other medical issue. Any inconsistencies are used to ignore the thousands of other data points. It’s disingenuous at best. Science is not perfect. The whole definition of science is to study through observation and experiment. New observations are made. New experiments are done. The data is constantly changing. Just because the science changes doesn’t mean you can ignore everything they say. They’re doing the best they can to study a novel disease. 

Conservatives are all about maintaining the status quo no matter the issue.  Republicans have no ideology outside of graft and redistributing wealth to the very rich.   

[workswithseed 2033]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Who is "we"?

As in US citizens. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

 

17 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

You know what, if PP just stopped the whole abortion thing, then a lot of people would stop arguing about its existence. 

That's not true. In Dallas in the 1980s, PP didn't even perform abortion and people picketed their clinics anyway. Like literally threw garbage and spit on poor women, mainly black, who were showing up for low-cost pelvic exams.  Too bad Anastasis wasn't there to give those women a drunk history performance about Margaret Sanger and Du Bois's work. 
 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

As in US citizens. 

We are?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

23 hours ago, SubliminalHorn said:

 It’s still worth nothing

Much as most of your posts....

[workswithseed 2033]

9 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

We are?

About a month ago Jefferson and Washington were knocked down. Unless that was done by outside actors and not done by citizens.

[Guest Lobo]

21 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Who is "we"?

I took it to mean like, "WE are the world.  WE are the children.  WE are the ones who make a brighter day..." 

I still can't believe how big a topic statues have become.  I did not have that on either my Covid19 bingo card, nor my 2020 Presidential Election bingo card.  

Seriously, Confederate statues were not this big a topic in the 1868 election after the war ended, and those people were just looking for shit to complain about after their ass-whooping.  But here we are, with talk of even taking some statutes out on a nationwide tour for the children to gather around and see like a light bulb or horseless carriage/car.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

About a month ago Jefferson and Washington were knocked down. Unless that was done by outside actors and not done by citizens.

Jeez, there ought to be a thread about something like that. But now that you mention it*, erasing Washington and Jefferson's ideas because they were the product of their times seems similar to what Anastasis is doing here.

 

 

*wink wink

[workswithseed 2033]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

Jeez, there ought to be a thread about something like that. But now that you mention it*, erasing Washington and Jefferson's ideas because they were the product of their times seems similar to what Anastasis is doing here.

 

 

*wink wink

That's why I said it.

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

WEB Du Bois advocated class-based eugenics like Margaret Sanger? 

 

 

It certainly seems that way. The whole notion of the "talented tenth" doesn't seem a bit eugenist to you? I mean, eugenics was widely accepted at that time in progressive American intellectual circles. It really didn't get stamped out until WWII. Why would Du Bois be an exception? I don't think it was his motivating impulse, but it's certainly seems to be part of the package. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Anastasis 23375]

Well shit.  I guess we have to cancel WEB Du Bois too. 

[F250 28659]

10 hours ago, Mole said:

 

What I haven’t seen addressed (again, I don’t know if it’s in the links above yet) is how much comes from shifting attitudes (SBC members becoming pro-life) or shifting memberships (there are many groups that are formerly SBC that have split for various reasons). What you hear from diehard SBCers today is that there was a protracted battle for the soul of the SBC between liberals and conservatives and the conservatives won (meaning the liberals SBCers are now something else).

There was a battle within the SBC and yes the conservatives did win but the liberals were not actually liberal in the political sense but were instead theologically liberal. The liberal term was more of a pejorative than a description. The "liberal" side was and still is very pro-life. Many of them became generic nondenominational Evangelicals and a number of them migrated to the Methodist church. The big debate at the time was Arminianism (liberal side) and Calvinism (conservative side) it wasn't about politics or progressive theology.

[Mole 4318]

31 minutes ago, F250 said:

There was a battle within the SBC and yes the conservatives did win but the liberals were not actually liberal in the political sense but were instead theologically liberal. The liberal term was more of a pejorative than a description. The "liberal" side was and still is very pro-life. Many of them became generic nondenominational Evangelicals and a number of them migrated to the Methodist church. The big debate at the time was Arminianism (liberal side) and Calvinism (conservative side) it wasn't about politics or progressive theology.

Fair point. I get that liberal and conservative can mean lots of things depending on the context and folks in religious circles can hide in the ambiguity. I don’t see many pastors expressing that much discipline and specificity when they use the term “liberal.” Theology and politics ends up in some kind of mushy stew, which is a pretty convenient rhetorical device.

I was thinking specifically of groups like the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, which left the SBC over women pastors and is relatively liberal politically speaking (some CBF churches will have same-sex marriage, others don’t but seem unbothered by its existence in their convention). Anymore, certain theological views serve as a proxy for political views and vice versa.

[Pancho 44358]

4 hours ago, workswithseed said:

You know what, if PP just stopped the whole abortion thing, then a lot of people would stop arguing about its existence. 

 

What’s the percentage of abortions done by Planned Parenthood?  Do you know?

[Guest]

in fiscal year 2018, PP performed 332,757 abortions or roughly 38.4% of the abortions in the US.

48.6%  of PP services were for STD testing

27.1% of PP services are for contraception

6.7% of PP services are for cancer screenings

3.4% of PP services are for abortions

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by slorch

[UDontKnow 10439]

10 minutes ago, slorch said:

in fiscal year 2018, PP performed 332,757 abortions or roughly 38.4% of the abortions in the US.

48.6%  of PP services were for STD testing

27.1% of PP services are for contraception

6.7% of PP services are for cancer screenings

3.4% of PP services are for abortions

 

Less than 5% of their service is for abortions. Now if conservatives weren't so hell bent on ideology that it is not evidence-based, that percentage for abortions could decline further. Include coverage for all forms of contraception under all health insurance plans (even vasectomies). Conservatives don't want to pay for the consequences of unintended pregnancies because they are against social welfare, nor do they want to truly prevent unintended pregnancies because that is supposedly anti-Christian. It's a sick and diabolical plan to maintain inter-generational poverty and it happens to disproportionately affect poor non-whites.

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, UDontKnow said:

Less than 5% of their service is for abortions. Now if conservatives weren't so hell bent on ideology that it is not evidence-based, that percentage for abortions could decline further. Include coverage for all forms of contraception under all health insurance plans (even vasectomies). Conservatives don't want to pay for the consequences of unintended pregnancies because they are against social welfare, nor do they want to truly prevent unintended pregnancies because that is supposedly anti-Christian. It's a sick and diabolical plan to maintain inter-generational poverty and it happens to disproportionately affect poor non-whites.

 

Maybe a discussion for a different thread, but this guy's opposition to federally funding the abortion piece is rooted in his conviction  on the topic itself.

I also don't buy in on the "making life better through abortion" piece, but I don't believe that is the focus on this discussion.

It is not based whatsoever is racism or hatred.

[Pancho 44358]

49 minutes ago, slorch said:

in fiscal year 2018, PP performed 332,757 abortions or roughly 38.4% of the abortions in the US.

48.6%  of PP services were for STD testing

27.1% of PP services are for contraception

6.7% of PP services are for cancer screenings

3.4% of PP services are for abortions

 

I already knew the answer and was specifically asking him about it. 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I already knew the answer and was specifically asking him about it. 

I figured that.

I posted because I have the patience of a 4 year old and wanted to move the conversation along.

[Wulaw Horn 18963]

5 hours ago, Nivek said:

Conservatives are all about maintaining the status quo no matter the issue.  Republicans have no ideology outside of graft and redistributing wealth to the very rich.   

I don’t believe this is true (re conservatives). The school of thought gives more credence to status quo and upholding it, but I’ve never seen any serious conservative claim that we can’t evolve or change as a society at all. It’s more an argument, by most, for small and incremental changes for fear of throwing the baby out with the bath water. 
If you believe America is a pretty good place that whole not perfect is better than most other places in time and geography then this is a solid and logical argument and world view. Saying nothing can change about the status quo is silly. 

[Poolflood 845]

2 hours ago, UDontKnow said:

Less than 5% of their service is for abortions. Now if conservatives weren't so hell bent on ideology that it is not evidence-based, that percentage for abortions could decline further. Include coverage for all forms of contraception under all health insurance plans (even vasectomies). Conservatives don't want to pay for the consequences of unintended pregnancies because they are against social welfare, nor do they want to truly prevent unintended pregnancies because that is supposedly anti-Christian. It's a sick and diabolical plan to maintain inter-generational poverty and it happens to disproportionately affect poor non-whites.

 

PP needs to be blunt about their statistics.  There's a very significant percentage of women who walk through their doors for an abortion - and its many more than 3-5%.   Women who often have no other place to go.  Don't know why they duck the statistics.

[Guest Lobo]

While i'm not a terribly big fan of aborting babies...I will say that so many on the "pro-life" side also don't understand that so many of the Planned Parenthood "abortions" are D&C procedures performed on mothers who miscarried or were opting out of carrying to term for other grave medical reasons.  There's really just not as many stand-alone "murder clinics" in this nation as some would have you believe.  That said, there's only one way human babies arrive in this world.  Let's pay some loving attention to that as well.  

[Nivek 16808]

1 hour ago, Poolflood said:

PP needs to be blunt about their statistics.  There's a very significant percentage of women who walk through their doors for an abortion - and its many more than 3-5%.   Women who often have no other place to go.  Don't know why they duck the statistics.

 Bless your heart. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Nivek

[GRHorn 105]

19 minutes ago, Lobo said:

While i'm not a terribly big fan of aborting babies...I will say that so many on the "pro-life" side also don't understand that so many of the Planned Parenthood "abortions" are D&C procedures performed on mothers who miscarried or were opting out of carrying to term for other grave medical reasons.  There's really just not as many stand-alone "murder clinics" in this nation as some would have you believe.  That said, there's only one way human babies arrive in this world.  Let's pay some loving attention to that as well.  

Interesting.  What percentage of their “abortion services” do those account for? From a medical perspective the diagnosis for a d&c after a miscarriage is either spontaneous abortion or missed abortion, so technically the pregnancy has already been terminated. You would think they would split that out. 

[workswithseed 2033]

5 hours ago, slorch said:

in fiscal year 2018, PP performed 332,757 abortions or roughly 38.4% of the abortions in the US.

48.6%  of PP services were for STD testing

27.1% of PP services are for contraception

6.7% of PP services are for cancer screenings

3.4% of PP services are for abortions

 

Thanks, I just got back from shooting with my friend. Had a great time. Then met some others, and we shoot the shit.

Edited July 13, 2020 by workswithseed

[Guest]

Did he live? 😉

[Rougarou 594]

I don't know about you guys, but I just bought a bunch of Goya beans from my local Target today.

[Guest Lobo]

Well then your colon is about to have an abortion.  

[Nivek 16808]

I don't know about you guys, but I just bought a bunch of Goya beans from my local Target today.

You going to pour it on ted cruz’s wife?

[Chad Fuck 17503]

On 7/10/2020 at 4:12 PM, GRHorn said:

Is a school choice option “ripping apart” public schools? 
 

If so, giving poor kids and their parents more options for their education “rips apart the foundations of the Republic”?
 

That’s quite hysterical.  You need to calm down. 

Yes, it is.  It's an effort to undermine the foundations of learning.  It's stealing from the community good.  Every public dollar that comes out of a public school and goes to a private school is money that isn't there for the public school.  

But don't let me leave without saying, you can go fuck yourself GR. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

29 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

Yes, it is.  It's an effort to undermine the foundations of learning.  It's stealing from the community good.  Every public dollar that comes out of a public school and goes to a private school is money that isn't there for the public school.  

But don't let me leave without saying, you can go fuck yourself GR. 

I'd agree, but the public School systems fuck the kids over by paying out huge salaries to admin. people who don't Really do shit in the way of actual teaching or getting anything made better.  Our state capitol city has a graduation rate of less than 76%, and pays its admins more than most any other in the state.   Schools are literally, yes literally falling down around kids heads in the city, and the city mayor wants a huge bond to build a new sports arena...

School starts at home, if parents aren't involved daily then it doesn't matter what gets spent however.  At risk kids need something different happening in their lives to make them engage in school, even if parents aren't totally involved.

 There's a large black, socio economic underclass in the city, and that contributes to the low graduation rate, and lack of parental involvement unfortunately. Kinda hard to prioritize schools when you barely make enough to feed your family, or as a single parent without a job, or you're away working all the time, and can't spend time with your kids making them perform academically.

[Continental Op 3934]

Edit nevermind. Probably an unfair characterization.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Continental Op

[workswithseed 2033]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/7/12/21321569/chicago-weekend-shootings-homicide-gun-violence-july-10-13

"Sixty-four people were shot, 13 of them fatally, across Chicago over the weekend.

Fifteen-year-old Terrance Malden, who was gunned down about 4:50 p.m. Friday in Jeffery Manor on the South Side, was the weekend’s first victim. Five other teenagers were wounded in separate shootings between then and Monday morning.

The alarming numbers marked a dip from the gun violence that befell the city over the Fourth of July weekend, when 79 people were shot, 15 fatally. Eleven of those victims were minors, and two of the children died from their injuries.

In the same weekend last year, nine people were killed and 32 more were wounded."

These many decades of killings, and nothing has really helped the people of Chicago. It's either political hatred of the population, or political indifference. The Chicago political machine just sucks either way. 

[wildcat09 29187]

17 hours ago, Poolflood said:

PP needs to be blunt about their statistics.  There's a very significant percentage of women who walk through their doors for an abortion - and its many more than 3-5%.   Women who often have no other place to go.  Don't know why they duck the statistics.

Just making shit up doesn’t make it true.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

19 hours ago, slorch said:

Maybe a discussion for a different thread, but this guy's opposition to federally funding the abortion piece is rooted in his conviction  on the topic itself.

I also don't buy in on the "making life better through abortion" piece, but I don't believe that is the focus on this discussion.

It is not based whatsoever is racism or hatred.

38% of Planned Parenthood's budget comes from private contributions. Much of that actually may be directly attributable to them continuing to provide abortion services.  This accounts for about $600 million dollars.

34% comes from federal spending, of this around $500 million comes from Medicaid reimbursements. Around $60 million dollars comes from the Title X grants in question.  The gov't isn't funding anything really.  The anti-PP rhetoric from the right usually ends up being a fundraising boon.

Imagine a world where conservatives actually gave a shit about healthcare and where every single non-abortion service provided by PP was available under M4A. Then you actually might be able to make some headway in stopping providers from offering abortion.  In a world where liberals don't need to fund basic healthcare and safe sex counseling for impoverished women via donations, those donations would become mostly "for abortion only" and you could shame a lot of them away.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

18 hours ago, Poolflood said:

PP needs to be blunt about their statistics.  There's a very significant percentage of women who walk through their doors for an abortion - and its many more than 3-5%.   Women who often have no other place to go.  Don't know why they duck the statistics.

And You believe this because?

[JBJ 3647]

3% of services are an abortion.

94% of pregnancy-related outcomes are an abortion.

But really neither the 3% nor 94% are really true.

The 3% is akin to saying only 7% of Ehlinger's passes are TD-related.

The 94% is like saying 76% of Ehlinger's passes with a drive-ending outcome were TDs.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

 you could shame a lot of them away.

 

Fuck you and your last paragraph, with the little accusations and bullshit.  Save your scripted responses and horseshit blamegame for someone who is actually engaged in that.  I don’t live that way and haven’t posted that I do.   It’s frustrating as fuck that some of you cannot get past your flowchart responses.

It’s a discussion for another thread, yet you insist...

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by slorch

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 minutes ago, slorch said:

Fuck you and your last paragraph, with the little accusations and bullshit.  Save your scripted responses and horseshit blamegame for someone who is actually engaged in that.  I don’t live that way and haven’t posted that I do.   It’s frustrating as fuck that some of you cannot get past your flowchart responses.

 

Your bootstraps mentality has been pervasive on this board in spite of your admirable support of public schooling.  Let's apply that support of a public good to all the other things a child needs to grow.  Maybe in the end, you will be a liberal after all. 

It isn't liberals that forced women to charity healthcare services in order to get basic contraception. 

[Biff Tannen 45477]

9 minutes ago, slorch said:

Fuck you and your last paragraph, with the little accusations and bullshit.  Save your scripted responses and horseshit blamegame for someone who is actually engaged in that.  I don’t live that way and haven’t posted that I do.   It’s frustrating as fuck that some of you cannot get past your flowchart responses.

It’s a discussion for another thread, yet you insist...

 

Wait, there's a flowchart?  How'd I miss this?

[workswithseed 2033]

Speaking of Planned Parenthood.

 

https://www.lifenews.com/2020/06/30/planned-parenthood-leaders-admit-under-oath-to-harvesting-body-parts-from-babies-born-alive/

 

The Center for Medical Progress released horrific new video footage Tuesday showing a Planned Parenthood partner admitting that body parts were harvested from aborted babies who still had beating hearts.

The video exposes the testimonies of several top Planned Parenthood officials and a human tissue procurement company leader during a 2019 sworn legal deposition.

Perhaps the most horrific testimony came from Perrin Larton, the procurement manager of Advanced Bioscience Resources (ABR), which harvests aborted baby body parts at Planned Parenthood facilities in southern California.

In her sworn testimony, Larton admitted that she has seen aborted babies’ hearts “beating independently” after they are born. She also confirmed that some aborted babies’ bodies are fully intact.

Larton explained that most aborted babies come out of the womb in pieces, but sometimes ABR sees fully intact bodies. Asked about those situations, Larton replied, “They just, sometimes they fall out” of the mother when she delivers the baby in the abortion operating room. When questioned about how often that occurs, she replied, “Once every couple months.”

Asked what happens next, Larton said an ABR staffer will “do a dissection” on the intact aborted baby “to get the tissues that the researchers have requested.” When asked if the babies that just “fall out” have a heartbeat, Larton said, “It would depend,” because “I can see hearts that are not in an intact P.O.C. [product of conception, meaning aborted baby] that are beating independently.”

Also important to note, ABR sells aborted baby body parts to researchers whose projects are funded by U.S. taxpayers.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

There is simply no defense or semantic label you can place on that if it's true.  Abortion is a necessary evil in my opinion, but there is a point during pregnancy  at which you cannot in any moral consciousness not call it a human being, and it becomes murder, not abortion (viable, healthy, non life threatening for the mother in utero humans/babies/infants).

Edited July 13, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[workswithseed 2033]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

There is simply no defense or semantic label you can place on that if it's true.  Abortion is a necessary evil in my opinion, but there is a point during pregnancy  at which you cannot in any moral consciousness not call it a human being, and it becomes murder, not abortion (viable, healthy, non life threatening for the mother in utero humans/babies/infants).

Are you talking about the link I posted?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

24 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Are you talking about the link I posted?

Yep. 

[wildcat09 29187]

When are you guys going to stop falling for deceptively-edited videos?

[GRHorn 105]

6 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Yes, it is.  It's an effort to undermine the foundations of learning.  It's stealing from the community good.  Every public dollar that comes out of a public school and goes to a private school is money that isn't there for the public school.  

But don't let me leave without saying, you can go fuck yourself GR. 

 

A little competition for a monopoly is usually good. Shouldn’t be afraid of it. 
 

[Continental Op 3934]

8 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

A little competition for a monopoly is usually good. Shouldn’t be afraid of it. 
 

OK.  Once again,  I started Continental Op's Fire Department to meet the special and unique needs of my house.  Where do I get my Fire Department Voucher? 

[Anastasis 23375]

7 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

OK.  Once again,  I started Continental Op's Fire Department to meet the special and unique needs of my house.  Where do I get my Fire Department Voucher? 

If the Fire Department was acting anywhere near as reckless as TEA in the current pandemic, you would be right to advocate recapturing their funding as well. 

[Continental Op 3934]

Right because nobody anywhere ever was talking about private school vouchers before COVID. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26232]

56 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

 

A little competition for a monopoly is usually good. Shouldn’t be afraid of it. 
 

Do your think your tax dollars should subsidize the production of Dasani and Evian?