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Trump’s Gestapo in Portland

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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TexArcher
TexArcher

If you won't vote against the guy who's using federal agents in unmarked gear to arrest people who are protesting murder by police... If you won't vote against the guy who's using federal agents

High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter

If I was the mayor of Portland, I'd tell the police dept to arrest unidentified armed men in unmarked vans.   Also, the people we need to be defunding are ICE and Border Patrol.  

pyrohornIII
pyrohornIII

Libertarians are those who have no clue what the answers are, so they espouse a policy of no answers/no regulation/no government.  They even developed their own party to support this idea.  That way t

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F250

F250 28814

Posted
Posted
On 7/27/2020 at 12:16 PM, triplehorn said:

'These are his people': inside the elite border patrol unit Trump sent to Portland

Bortac, a quasi-militarised outfit equivalent to the Navy Seals, has been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan

Bortac?  Navy Seals?  Sounds like Erik Prince.

BORTAC isn't the equivalent of the Navy Seals. Thats like saying like saying Texas State football is the equivalent of Louisiana State University football. They are a SWAT team for the border patrol.

They have been around for a long time.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105275

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Or, you know.....not having corrupt and lawless cops who completely destroy the concept of the Rule of Law on the front end.  That would be a good way to stop violence before it starts.

Violent unrest doesn't cause a functioning civil society to collapse -- it's a sign that such a society has already collapsed/is actively collapsing.  

Want to enforce the Social Contract?  Start following it.

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NWBuck

NWBuck 8583

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, triplehorn said:

 

From the twitters spoilered above, it's pretty clear there are extreme right and left, both tracking each other and instigating. 

Yup- that's the problem out here. We've got white "Leave us alone!" anarchists and white "Leave us alone" right wing folks who each love to tear shit up.

And the peaceful protesters in Seattle and Portland and other places are pushed out so these two groups can have their dick measuring contest. As always, it's people of color who often are the brunt of it, either being blamed for the destruction that these shitheads manifest or being victims of the violence that comes when that blame leads other people to want to "fix things".

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31529

Posted
Posted
On 8/3/2020 at 2:15 PM, F250 said:

BORTAC isn't the equivalent of the Navy Seals. Thats like saying like saying Texas State football is the equivalent of Louisiana State University football. They are a SWAT team for the border patrol.

They have been around for a long time.

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I read the article and they "retracted" the equivalent statement.

Special Ops has their share of meatheads and psychos, it's still an insult to that community.

Why on earth would BorTac be deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan?

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Nivek

Nivek 16979

Posted
Posted
yeah, that'd be a positive ID.
other pics in there
Spoiler

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From the twitters spoilered above, it's pretty clear there are extreme right and left, both tracking each other and instigating. 
 


Where is the evidence that antifa loaded a gun and shot this buffoon? I am slightly more likely to believe this individual was killed by one of his Rambo-wannabe friends.
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F250

F250 28814

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I read the article and they "retracted" the equivalent statement.

Special Ops has their share of meatheads and psychos, it's still an insult to that community.

Why on earth would BorTac be deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan?

I assume they were there to train border forces in Iraq and Afghanistan back when the U.S. attempted to rebuild the police forces over there.

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31529

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, F250 said:

I assume they were there to train border forces in Iraq and Afghanistan back when the U.S. attempted to rebuild the police forces over there.

 

Yeah I guess that's right.  Forget all the civilian-type things we did/do over there.

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I read the article and they "retracted" the equivalent statement.

Special Ops has their share of meatheads and psychos, it's still an insult to that community.

Why on earth would BorTac be deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan?

 

32 minutes ago, Nivek said:


Where is the evidence that antifa loaded a gun and shot this buffoon? I am slightly more likely to believe this individual was killed by one of his Rambo-wannabe friends.

To me these two quotes might have something in common.  While there are extreme left wing folks out in the streets, a violent "Antifa" movement is far more myth than actual men on the ground.  There is no meaningful history of domestic terrorism and murder.  There is legitimate concern that non-left agent provocateurs amongst peaceful protesters are inciting violence to create an opportunity.  That doesn't necessarily mean they are fringe RW gun nuts, right?  So BorTac is on it.  What purpose could it serve to have a BorTac presence there?  Is BorTac loosely more likely to draw in white supremacists than other traditional federal LE bodies?  Is it less discliplined than our military command structure?  If you need some loyal operatives temporarily folded into a scene to act in a provocative way inconsistent with best conduct and standard rules,  or worse, having a non-traditional less recognizable outside team inserted to pull it off would be one way.  It's pretty clear this is in Erik Prince's orbit.  He's employed a few mercs over the years.  To be clear, I have no evidence of agent provocateurs, but it's fishy as hell and with Prince and Blackwater, we're talking about people with a history of slaughtering civilians.  BTW, one of Prince's current initiatives with Frontier Services Group is building internment concentration camps for the Chinese mass detention of the Uighurs.  Very fine people.

 

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2110

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Posted
15 hours ago, NWBuck said:

Yup- that's the problem out here. We've got white "Leave us alone!" anarchists and white "Leave us alone" right wing folks who each love to tear shit up.

And the peaceful protesters in Seattle and Portland and other places are pushed out so these two groups can have their dick measuring contest. As always, it's people of color who often are the brunt of it, either being blamed for the destruction that these shitheads manifest or being victims of the violence that comes when that blame leads other people to want to "fix things".

"Leave us alone" anarchist are the say they Support BLM. They are BLM rioters. 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20996

Posted
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

"Leave us alone" anarchist are the say they Support BLM. They are BLM rioters. 

It's not totally clear what you are saying, but it sounds like you're trying to say:

Violent Rioters support BLM. Therefore, Violent Rioters are BLM. Therefore, BLM = Violent Rioters. Therefore, everything that is happening is violent rioting, BLM is categorically bad/null/void.

Everything to the right of the second period in the line above is incorrect, arguably everything to the right of the first period. **edit Not categorically everything to the left of the first period is accurate. I'm sure a lot of the people rioting violently do in their own mind support BLM. It is documented fact that right wing groups have also been involved in creating violence and destruction in the protests and riots, sometimes as vigilantes and sometimes in order to bolster the narrative that it seems like you're trying to point to right now. There are certainly also people rioting and looting who are opportunists, or bored, or whatever.

If you're trying to say that BLM as a movement is violent and bad and needs to be crushed, you need to understand that the same logic that gets you there is easily and arguably more accurately applied to "your side".

It seems like the whole thing is about making sure we clearly define which of the two sides which people are on. That's not helpful, although of course there is a lot of that happening everywhere and it's hard not to do right now.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2110

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

It's not totally clear what you are saying, but it sounds like you're trying to say:

Violent Rioters support BLM. Therefore, Violent Rioters are BLM. Therefore, BLM = Violent Rioters. Therefore, everything that is happening is violent rioting, BLM is categorically bad/null/void.

Everything to the right of the second period in the line above is incorrect, arguably everything to the right of the first period.

If you're trying to say that BLM as a movement is violent and bad and needs to be crushed, you need to understand that the same logic that gets you there is easily and arguably more accurately applied to "your side".

It seems like the whole thing is about making sure we clearly define which of the two sides which people are on. That's not helpful, although of course there is a lot of that happening everywhere and it's hard not to do right now.

I should say the people as individuals who become a mob to riot and chant BLM, and ACAB. As they destroy property, or kill someone walking down the street are supporters of BLM. They become BLM rioters. Not everyone who supports BLM riot.

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

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You could easily find any caravan with flags during a parade or something, so is the point being made that vehicles in a row with the same flags are bad? I mean, every June in every major city you have rainbow flags hanging out of mazda miata's, are you trying to say they are terrorists? You are a homophobe if so!

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, NWBuck said:

Yup- that's the problem out here. We've got white "Leave us alone!" anarchists and white "Leave us alone" right wing folks who each love to tear shit up.

And the peaceful protesters in Seattle and Portland and other places are pushed out so these two groups can have their dick measuring contest. As always, it's people of color who often are the brunt of it, either being blamed for the destruction that these shitheads manifest or being victims of the violence that comes when that blame leads other people to want to "fix things".

This seems to be the crux of the problem right now. White people, on both sides, co-opting BLM/black activists into their own agenda. It's sickening but not surprising. It's how America and American whites have always treated blacks, as if they can't be trusted with their own agency or to lead with their own vision.

The root problem is white people don't know how to be allys and the concept of allyship is broken. They are the Type-A, "I want to be in control or you aren't doing it right" type project manager.

Edited by Rougarou
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Celery Man

Celery Man 20996

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Posted
Just now, workswithseed said:

I should say the people as individuals who become a mob to riot and chant BLM, and ACAB. As they destroy property, or kill someone walking down the street are supporters of BLM. They become BLM rioters. Not everyone who supports BLM riot.

This is not accurate. It seems that you are saying that the people who riot, destroy property, and kill people are supporters of BLM. Removing "kill people" from the equation, that is something that people on either side and no side at all are guilty of. Kill people walking down the street? Is there a specific instance you're referring to? Clearly not Kenosha. Maybe you're talking about Portland. We don't really know what the shooter there believes in as of yet but it's reasonable to assume that he falls somewhere on that side of the spectrum. But, if what you think definitely happened there is that someone just walking down the street was killed, I don't think that you've looked honestly at the information we have about what happened. Still very murky, but if there's evidence to suggest that the victim was... swarmed and killed by the violent BLM mob, please bring it here.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105275

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

This seems to be the crux of the problem right now. White people, on both sides, co-opting BLM/black activists into their own agenda. It's sickening but not surprising. It's how America and American whites have always treated blacks, as if they can't be trusted with their own agency or to lead with their own vision.

The root problem is white people don't know how to be allys and the concept of allyship is broken. They are the Type-A, "I want to be in control or you aren't doing it right" type project manager.

What about the white folks who load up their MAGA gear and weapons and violently careen through town?  Patriots, I guess.

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MC Fresh Breath

MC Fresh Breath 4074

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

You could easily find any caravan with flags during a parade or something, so is the point being made that vehicles in a row with the same flags are bad? I mean, every June in every major city you have rainbow flags hanging out of mazda miata's, are you trying to say they are terrorists? You are a homophobe if so!

 

It was a bit of humor that obvs offended you.  I wonder why.  The Portland cops let this caravan cover their license plates up and didn't stop them.  They came armed and ready to do violence.  The police let them shoot protesters with paintball guns and escalate the violence.  I wonder why.  And you want to play 'both sides?'  The right wing terrorists have a history of instigating violence and I've already linked to articles demonstrating that fact.  That the cops let them slide isn't a good thing, imo.

 

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

This is not accurate. It seems that you are saying that the people who riot, destroy property, and kill people are supporters of BLM. Removing "kill people" from the equation, that is something that people on either side and no side at all are guilty of. Kill people walking down the street? Is there a specific instance you're referring to? Clearly not Kenosha. Maybe you're talking about Portland. We don't really know what the shooter there believes in as of yet but it's reasonable to assume that he falls somewhere on that side of the spectrum. But, if what you think definitely happened there is that someone just walking down the street was killed, I don't think that you've looked honestly at the information we have about what happened. Still very murky, but if there's evidence to suggest that the victim was... swarmed and killed by the violent BLM mob, please bring it here.

I think what he is trying to say is, a sub-set of BLM protesters who either already were radicalized or have been radicalized over the last few months and are now participating in mayhem, their identity or descriptor has evolved from BLM protester to BLM rioters. At least that's what I read from his, admittedly, very poor ability to communicate through written word.

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What about the white folks who load up their MAGA gear and weapons and violently careen through town?  Patriots, I guess.

No, those guys are the worst for also co-opting this movement and moment. But it's hilarious you committed the most literal "whataboutism" this side of Onboard and his Hillary Clinton fetish. You two deny it, but we all know you enjoy the same King size bed of logic.

Edited by Rougarou
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Celery Man

Celery Man 20996

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Posted (edited)

yeah it's possible I'm still just misunderstanding what the argument is. if the above is what is being said, that's probably accurate just as it is accurate to state the same about MAGA people. And also the police and federal government.

Edited by Celery Man
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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

It was a bit of humor that obvs offended you.  I wonder why.  The Portland cops let this caravan cover their license plates up and didn't stop them.  They came armed and ready to do violence.  The police let them shoot protesters with paintball guns and escalate the violence.  I wonder why.  And you want to play 'both sides?'  The right wing terrorists have a history of instigating violence and I've already linked to articles demonstrating that fact.  That the cops let them slide isn't a good thing, imo.

 

Well, hey, if it was just for lulz, I can dig it and I think it's funny.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105275

Posted
Posted
Just now, Rougarou said:

No, those guys are the worst for also co-opting this movement and moment. But it's hilarious you committed the most literal "whataboutism" this side of Onboard and his Hillary Clinton fetish. You two deny it, but we all know you enjoy the same King size bed.

The fact that the entire focus on anything wrong, anything bad, that has happened in the last several months, is "those BLM assholes".....with effective passes being given to cops who start this shit, cops who shoot peaceful protesters in the face, and white nationalist agitators who show up to commit mayhem, doesn't go unnoticed.

You are very, very, very concerned about BLM.  But the broken fucking police system that leads to this unrest, and the violent racist pieces of shit who capitalize on it, well....yeah.

You don't realize that you're just singing a song that was played to death in the 1960s.  The Civil Rights movement faced the exact same attacks and criticisms then.  For the same reason -- shut up, you're making us uncomfortable.  And notably, the brutal white attacks on black people...well, those weren't "civil unrest and thugs," that was just good old "law and order."  The same song, in perfect harmony.

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Rougarou

Rougarou 594

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

yeah it's possible I'm still just misunderstanding what the argument is. if the above is what is being said, that's probably accurate just as it is accurate to state the same about MAGA people. And also the police and federal government.

You got me, brother. No idea what his argument is and frankly, I don't think his opinion is worth much as he basically decries and moans about his city yet chooses to live there because he likes to gripe about it. It's like he has the Munchhausen syndrome and likes the attention of being such a smart, strong guy who just is so forced and happens to live in a crappy city.

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