Trump’s Gestapo in Portland

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

I know, the race will be between Sessions and Kennedy, but I like to call and voice my opinion and I've not done so since the impeachment.

[ndawg 1242]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

so you want them to apologize for not supporting a nanny-state?  LOLz'

 

Expecting people to act like responsible human beings is so fucking scary, as well as  a gross overestimation of what many citizens actually want right now.  I can see how you feel threatened by such outlooks on life.

Libertarians are the exact opposite of people who expect others to act like responsible human beings. Ideologically, they want a government that holds people to the absolute lowest moral standard they can utter with a straight face, and in practice (as evident by their silence on this issue) their bar is even lower.

In reality, Libertarians have proven time and again to be simpletons who adopt a contrarian stance on everything because it makes them feel smart. That they believe that in the absence of government “encroachment,” the better parts of human nature will somehow win out has got to be one of the all time stupidest self delusions adopted on a broad scale. It goes toe to toe with believing that leeches will cure disease.

Edited July 20, 2020 by ndawg

[Nivek 16861]

The governor is in a tight spot here.  Oregon as a whole leans left but eastern and southern Oregon (below Eugene) is pretty conservative.  Oregon has a QANON dork running for the Senate this year and a slip on how to deal with this could help that idiot.
That being said, if I were her, I would bring in the NG and have them around in the protest zone.   If they see something like what has been happening go down, instruct them to intervene.  Trump wants the governor's to step up.  Well, here we go.

That was the point. Force the confrontation and crisis. They already started one by employing Russian tactics of non-uniformed field operatives and they should pay the price. I would even list them as enemy combatants and seek to imprison them in temporary holding cells until they can be transferred and processed in Guantanamo Bay. If they claim they are citizens after arriving in GB, then issue warrants for their arrest on multiple charges.

I would also place the police with the NG and get them involved. Because as we know, the cops like to beat the shit out of people here is their opportunity to do it with a letter of marque.

The gestapo cannot just follow orders. Fuck them.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

7 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Moms in bike helmets protecting younger people chanting "ACAB - All Cops Are Bastards"
 

Feels so fucking good.

"bUt My CuShY fEdErAl jOb!"

I don't know a lot of the history behind white women and how they have upheld and supported oppressive institutions (I know a little but not enough), but I do know that ALL women can be a positive force for change.

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

Oh they're already giving excuses for it (and by they, I mean dishonest right wingers in general, so maybe not them specifically as I neither know nor care what their flatulence about this is). They're saying "well they're destroying federal property and they have probable cause to arrest them!" It's just total bootlicker bullshit. 

Thing about it is, they are, and they do.

The other thing about it is, they should be and them's the breaks. This should be going on coast to coast. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by MaybeACoordinator

[Brisketexan 104628]

I'm FB friends with a Border Patrol agent (hell, one of my closest cousins was one for years.....till he got run out by a supervisor....and yes, it involved jealousy over pussy and other sordid things....CBP is as crooked an agency as you'll find).  Anyway, my acquaintance, who is full-Trump, posted these thoughts....if you wondered how the gestapo thinks:

Quote

This is why the Mayors and Governors of big cities didn’t want help from CBP. Because they ain’t the boss of us. They can’t order us to abandon our posts and have it be overrun. They knew the fight would be brought to the maggots destroying our cities and disrupting the lives of hard working Americans like it never has before.

The jackboots live for this shit.  So, let's make them teargas a phalanx of unarmed women.  Again, and again, and again.  Because it shows the truth: they're gutless cowards, commanded by gutless cowards, who would rule based on fear.  The only response to that approach is "fuck you," over, and over, and over.

This should be our new goddamned national anthem.

 

[wildcat09 29258]

Me in the 1990s: Rage Against the Machine is cool but some of their lyrics are pretty out there

Me now: Actually all of those who works forces in fact burns crosses

[TwiceHorn 31283]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm FB friends with a Border Patrol agent (hell, one of my closest cousins was one for years.....till he got run out by a supervisor....and yes, it involved jealousy over pussy and other sordid things....CBP is as crooked an agency as you'll find).  Anyway, my acquaintance, who is full-Trump, posted these thoughts....if you wondered how the gestapo thinks:

The jackboots live for this shit.  So, let's make them teargas a phalanx of unarmed women.  Again, and again, and again.  Because it shows the truth: they're gutless cowards, commanded by gutless cowards, who would rule based on fear.  The only response to that approach is "fuck you," over, and over, and over.

This should be our new goddamned national anthem.

 

Having CBP and related agencies police a protest, or even a riot, is bad idea jeans.  They're not trained for that.  It's just an invitation for frustrated security guards to go Punisher on people.

That said, I would expect some sort of federal LEO to be guarding/protecting federal buildings.  By and large, they shouldn't step off the property.

For people that actually damage/vandalize property, they should probably be arrested and charged and tried.  But by state authorities.  Just because there are federal penalties for fucking with federal property doesn't mean they should be used.

[Brisketexan 104628]

11 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Having CBP and related agencies police a protest, or even a riot, is bad idea jeans.  They're not trained for that.  It's just an invitation for frustrated security guards to go Punisher on people.

That said, I would expect some sort of federal LEO to be guarding/protecting federal buildings.  By and large, they shouldn't step off the property.

For people that actually damage/vandalize property, they should probably be arrested and charged and tried.  But by state authorities.  Just because there are federal penalties for fucking with federal property doesn't mean they should be used.

Hell, I'm okay with federal penalties for damaging federal property.  They're generally going to be unnecessary, but whatever.

The bigger problems here are 1) federal authorities roaming a city, hunting protesters, and 2) acting in a way that simply being "a protester" is probable cause for "you are being arrested for damaging federal property."  I mean, it's really fucking close to "a black guy reportedly committed a crime, so we're rounding up all black males."

This is jackboots playing tough-guy soldier, and ass-raping the Constitution while they do it.  It's funny how all of these "Constitutionalists" sit at home and masturbate furiously to the second amendment, while they simultaneously shit all over the first and the fourth.  Our Republic has turned into German scat porn.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Lagunamadre 1975]

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm FB friends with a Border Patrol agent (hell, one of my closest cousins was one for years.....till he got run out by a supervisor....and yes, it involved jealousy over pussy and other sordid things....CBP is as crooked an agency as you'll find).  Anyway, my acquaintance, who is full-Trump, posted these thoughts....if you wondered how the gestapo thinks:

 

 

Guessing this is your acquaintance. He seems like a real asshole. I bet his podcast is chock full of intellectual rigour. 

https://anchor.fm/gary-brugman

[Jive Turkey 12568]

1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Big gestapo in bastropo energy here. 
 

 

 

Here’s the video. On Fox News, of course. 

 

[wildcat09 29258]

20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Having CBP and related agencies police a protest, or even a riot, is bad idea jeans.  They're not trained for that.  It's just an invitation for frustrated security guards to go Punisher on people.

That said, I would expect some sort of federal LEO to be guarding/protecting federal buildings.  By and large, they shouldn't step off the property.

For people that actually damage/vandalize property, they should probably be arrested and charged and tried.  But by state authorities.  Just because there are federal penalties for fucking with federal property doesn't mean they should be used.

You say this like you think it wasn’t the whole point.

[Brisketexan 104628]

Oh, and you want to know how to beat these fucking jackboots?

The line of moms is nice.  They should keep at it.  But they need to add this:

 

Bring out the kids.  Yes, I know what I said.  Bring them out.  Bring out a phalanx of 12 year olds.  And let the jackboots teargas and beat them -- and trust me, they will.  It's what they do, it's what they are.  That's the nature of jackboots.  MAKE them teargas and beat children, in front of the country -- in front of the world.  You want to turn the people against the regime?  That's how you do it.  It made a difference in Birmingham back in the day.

Give the evil people the opportunity to be truly evil.  They will take it.  They always do.

And before you say "that's easy to say, they're not your kids," I am absolutely willing to have my kids exposed to this.  It's not fair, because they're older....and when it comes to my daughter, they know more about this shit than I do.  When we marched, she brought gear to help if we faced teargas (goggles, rinse bottles, the whole deal).  Yeah, isn't that something?  She's not alone; she and her peers know about this stuff.  It's just part of their culture -- how to deal with teargas and violence from the cops.

Bring it, jackboots.  Fucking.  BRING IT.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

10 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I'll bet he can kick Jim Jordan's ass. Let's arrange a match. 

Talk to Jim Jordans booker, Sen. Ted Cruz. 

[Rougarou 594]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, isn't that something?  She's not alone; she and her peers know about this stuff.  It's just part of their culture -- how to deal with teargas and violence from the cops.

Bring it, jackboots.  Fucking.  BRING IT.

I see Brisket's Histrionic Personality Disorder is flaring up again.

[TXSG8R 3360]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, and you want to know how to beat these fucking jackboots?

The line of moms is nice.  They should keep at it.  But they need to add this:

 

Bring out the kids.  Yes, I know what I said.  Bring them out.  Bring out a phalanx of 12 year olds.  And let the jackboots teargas and beat them -- and trust me, they will.  It's what they do, it's what they are.  That's the nature of jackboots.  MAKE them teargas and beat children, in front of the country -- in front of the world.  You want to turn the people against the regime?  That's how you do it.  It made a difference in Birmingham back in the day.

Give the evil people the opportunity to be truly evil.  They will take it.  They always do.

And before you say "that's easy to say, they're not your kids," I am absolutely willing to have my kids exposed to this.  It's not fair, because they're older....and when it comes to my daughter, they know more about this shit than I do.  When we marched, she brought gear to help if we faced teargas (goggles, rinse bottles, the whole deal).  Yeah, isn't that something?  She's not alone; she and her peers know about this stuff.  It's just part of their culture -- how to deal with teargas and violence from the cops.

Bring it, jackboots.  Fucking.  BRING IT.

The next day the headline would be "ANTIFA uses children as human shields."  I don't know that there is a nerve you can touch with his 30ish percent.  When they don't see the other side as human to begin with, you aren't going to find an empathy button to push.  They didn't give a shit about brown kids in cages, they aren't going to give a shit about a brown kid in Portland losing his eye to a rubber bullet.  If its a white kid, he will just be ANTIFA spawn and lumped in with "them" too.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

1 minute ago, Rougarou said:

I see Brisket's Histrionic Personality Disorder is flaring up again.

Wouldn't it be nice to think so? My daughter (17) has the same kit, and so do all of her friends. 

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, Rougarou said:

I see Brisket's Histrionic Personality Disorder is flaring up again.

Meh.  Wait till I grab people off the streets and shove them in unmarked vans, and teargas a buncha women.  The bar has been set, man.

Make the jackboots attack innocents.  It's how you beat them, every time.  The script has been written before, and this round of dumbasses isn't smart enough not to take the bait.

[InkaUtexas 25523]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Wouldn't it be nice to think so? My daughter (17) has the same kit, and so do all of her friends. 

Same with mine (18). She also carries a solid medical kit and a camelback to set up an emergency shower. Son keeps his gear in his vehicle. 

[Brisketexan 104628]

Just now, TXSG8R said:

The next day the headline would be "ANTIFA uses children as human shields."  I don't know that there is a nerve you can touch with his 30ish percent.  When they don't see the other side as human to begin with, you aren't going to find an empathy button to push.  They didn't give a shit about brown kids in cages, they aren't going to give a shit about a brown kid in Portland losing his eye to a rubber bullet.  If its a white kid, he will just be ANTIFA spawn and lumped in with "them" too.  

The 30% will never care.  Fuck them.

What we need is the 70%, and not just "on our side," but passionately mobilized and itching to fight back.  Get them out of their comfortable chairs, and into the voting booths, and in their Congressman's office, etc.  Get them off the sidelines and into the fight.

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

Wouldn't it be nice to think so? My daughter (17) has the same kit, and so do all of her friends. 

Bingo.  This is how this generation is growing up, reflecting the world they live in.  They are ready, willing, and able to take risks to their personal health and safety to fight for their country and their fellow man.

In short, our teenagers, including girls, are better men than anyone serving this regime.

[Rougarou 594]

Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

Wouldn't it be nice to think so? My daughter (17) has the same kit, and so do all of her friends. 

Heck, maybe the 17-24 year old, TikTok demographic are full of protest survivalist chock full of homemade remedies and hacks. I guess I've just now heard it anecdotally from two posters on an anonymous website, is why I assumed Brisket was just doing his ledge routine.

As an aside, can you imagine the type of rugged, survivalist, hardened Rambo-like generation these guys are? The ones honing their jackboot and riot survival skills are already hardened from having to learn how to take mental illness/school shooting assault rifle fire. These people are going to grow into middle aged adults and either be the greatest generation redux or have some serious, serious issues.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

10 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

I see Brisket's Histrionic Personality Disorder is flaring up again.

[Brisketexan 104628]

3 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

These people are going to grow into middle aged adults and either be the greatest generation redux or have some serious, serious issues.

Gonna be a healthy dose of both.

I'll tell you this; they have learned to hate.  I think it's sad as shit, but it's a cold truth.  They hate anyone and anything associated with this regime.  Shit, my son, who is actually objectively reasonably conservative, absolutely hates the GOP and Trumpists.  It's not just that most (not all, for sure) of this generation is active, involved, and cares about the issues -- it's that their passion is so damned white-hot.  It's encouraging, and sad, to see.

[Jive Turkey 12568]

Wolf went to Plano East.  thanks a lot, hayden.

Quote

Wolf is originally from Plano, Texas.^[2] He graduated from Plano East Senior High School and then attended Collin College on a tennis scholarship.^[3] Wolf then earned a B.S. in U.S. history from Southern Methodist University.

He worked as a staffer for Republican Senators Phil Gramm, Kay Bailey Hutchison, and then Chuck Hagel, for whom he worked for two and a half years.^[3][4][5] From 2002 to 2005, Wolf worked in the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), becoming Assistant Administrator for Transportation Security Policy in 2005.^[4][5] From October 2005 to 2016, he was Vice President and Senior Director at Wexler & Walker,^[4][5] a now-defunct lobbying firm.^[6][7][2] He helped clients obtain contracts from the TSA, his previous employer.^[8]

In 2013 he received a Master Certificate in Government Contract Management from Villanova University.

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26284]

10 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Same with mine (18). She also carries a solid medical kit and a camelback to set up an emergency shower. Son keeps his gear in his vehicle. 

It's amazing -  I spend the decade teaching my kids to respect cops, to appreciate but also be wary of the work they do, and to use the same playbook I had used to stay out of trouble. The police undid 10 years of parenting over the course of a week. It turns out my system of courtesy and respect doesn't work anymore. 

Yesterday my wife had to call the police about a puppy in a hot car in the HEB parking lot. The police came and were professional and handled the issue very well. When my wife came home and told the girls, they both said "I don't care, ACAB! You called the cops? You should have just take the dog to rescue.  Thank goodness nobody got hurt."
I hate hearing them talk that  way, but I get it. Being teargassed for holding a sign will give you an attitude. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[Brisketexan 104628]

Just now, Axiom of Choice said:

People who sacrifice children for their ideological or political goals are monsters.   That's you.  If you care so much, drive up to Portland and fight them yourself. 

Children marched in Birmingham.  And they chose to.  Do you think their families were monsters?

How about this: jackboots who teargas mothers and children are monsters.  It's funny which one you choose to criticize.

[wildcat09 29258]

2 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Wolf went to Plano East.  thanks a lot, hayden.

 

That's three pretty moderate Republicans he staffed for. Scum like him are everywhere in the GOP. 

[Rougarou 594]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Children marched in Birmingham.  And they chose to.  Do you think their families were monsters?

How about this: jackboots who teargas mothers and children are monsters.  It's funny which one you choose to criticize.

What does the whataboutism and both sides maneuver have to do with the price of tea in china, with respect to the (arguably valid) point he made. Using children as gambits in strategy; right or wrong? Depends? Depends on what? They chose? Since when do kids have the ability to make choices like that (and what of the adult influence?)?

[Brisketexan 104628]

2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It's amazing -  I spend the decade teaching my kids to respect cops, to appreciate but also be wary of the work they do, and to use the same playbook I had used to stay out of trouble. The police undid 10 years of parenting over the course of a week.

 

It turns out my system of courtesy and respect doesn't work anymore. Yesterday my wife had to call the police about a puppy in a hot car in the HEB parking lot. The police came and were professional and handled the issue very well. When my wife came home and told the girls, they both said "I don't care, ACAB! You called the cops? You should have just take the dog to rescue.  Thank goodness nobody got hurt." it's funny how being teargassed for holding a sign will give you an attitude. 

And this.  At some point in time, law enforcement crossed the Rubicon.  They decided to treat the people -- all of them -- as enemy insurgents (seriously, it's fucking Full Metal Jacket -- if we run, we're VC, if we don't run, we're well-trained VC).  Once you do that - once you decide that those you are supposed to protect are the enemy, it's over.  Your legitimacy is gone.  You are no longer our fellow citizens working cooperatively with all of us to make sure we have a safe society.  You are instead an occupying force, controlling the population.

And courtesy and respect have been replaced by another dynamic: fear/intimidation.  You MUST presume that will be the dynamic in any interaction with law enforcement.  And every action these military forces (and let's be clear, that's what they are) take only furthers the divide.  It fixes nothing; it even further breaks the already broken.  

[Brisketexan 104628]

3 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

What does the whataboutism and both sides maneuver have to do with the price of tea in china, with respect to the (arguably valid) point he made. Using children as gambits in strategy; right or wrong? Depends? Depends on what? They chose? Since when do kids have the ability to make choices like that (and what of the adult influence?)?

Our kids already don't have a choice.  They don't have a choice of whether they are going to grow up in a country where law enforcement views each of them as a potential enemy insurgent.  They didn't pick the war.  The war came to them.  And if you think they haven't figured that out, you haven't talked to many kids these days.  Talk to a 13-14 yr old.  They fucking get it.  They see what their future looks like.  They're scared, they're pissed, and they are invested in this fight for the future.  

[TXSG8R 3360]

8 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

People who sacrifice children for their ideological or political goals are monsters.   That's you.  If you care so much, drive up to Portland and fight them yourself. 

When did protesting become a sacrifice?  We are talking about walking in Portland, not navigating the jungles of Vietnam.  The fact that you see that risk tells you more about how unconsciously we expect police violence during a pretty standard expression of free speech.  

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, Axiom of Choice said:

Why are you not going to Portland to march yourself?  Do you care so much about this cause that you want other people's children to get hurt, but not enough to inconvenience yourself?  

My children have marched and been involved here and in Montreal.  And they will continue to do so.  And have no fear.....the regime will bring these tactics to Austin soon enough.  We will all have the chance to fight on our home turf.

The youth who marched in Birmingham were almost all from Birmingham.  The youth who will march in Portland will mostly be from Portland.  And in Austin, they will be Austinites, etc. etc.  That's how it works.

Do you think it was wrong for schoolkids to march in Birmingham to fight for their future?

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, TXSG8R said:

When did protesting become a sacrifice?  We are talking about walking in Portland, not navigating the jungles of Vietnam.  The fact that you see that risk tells you more about how unconsciously we expect police violence during a pretty standard expression of free speech.  

DING DING DING.

[Rougarou 594]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Our kids already don't have a choice.  They don't have a choice of whether they are going to grow up in a country where law enforcement views each of them as a potential enemy insurgent.  They didn't pick the war.  The war came to them.  And if you think they haven't figured that out, you haven't talked to many kids these days.  Talk to a 13-14 yr old.  They fucking get it.  They see what their future looks like.  They're scared, they're pissed, and they are invested in this fight for the future.  

You posted pictures of 8 or 9 years old and said to put them on the front lines, as political ploys. Someone called you out for saying that because they view it as immoral. I get that kids don't have a choice, as kids, what type of world they will inherit when they come to be influential/adults.

[G650 14107]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And this.  At some point in time, law enforcement crossed the Rubicon.  They decided to treat the people -- all of them -- as enemy insurgents (seriously, it's fucking Full Metal Jacket -- if we run, we're VC, if we don't run, we're well-trained VC). 

How much do they lead us by?

[hayden_horn 11360]

16 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

Wolf went to Plano East.  thanks a lot, hayden.

 

hey, i wasn't an east side poor. i was a west side poor. i went to pshs. can't blame me for this.

Edited July 20, 2020 by hayden_horn

[Huckleberry 32704]

4 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

When did protesting become a sacrifice?  We are talking about walking in Portland, not navigating the jungles of Vietnam.  The fact that you see that risk tells you more about how unconsciously we expect police violence during a pretty standard expression of free speech.  

Exactly this.

The posters who like to think they're smart are admitting that the soldiers will fire on children and they take the time to admonish the adults who support children's right to protest peacefully. Not the soldiers who would illegally fire on children. That's not the issue.

Complete morons.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Huckleberry 32704]

Just now, Axiom of Choice said:

He didn't say let kids protest.  He said "MAKE them teargas and beat children."  Do either of you agree with that statement?

Pages and pages of evidence of soldiers kidnapping, abusing, and tear-gassing peaceful protesters. Not once did you feel called to say anything about the clearly thuggish and illegal behavior by the soldiers.

As soon as you thought you saw something you could jump on from the other side you piped up.

You're a moron and a coward.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

Exactly this.

The posters who like to think they're smart are admitting that the soldiers will fire on children and they take the time to admonish the adults who support children's right to protest peacefully. Not the soldiers who would illegally fire on children. That's not the issue.

Complete morons.

And what they don't get is that to do otherwise means the jackboots win -- it's surrender to their violent intimidation, pure and simple.

"The jackboots will shoot you!  So it's irresponsible to go out and protest them -- they'll shoot you!"  When the fucking thing you are protesting is the fact that the jackboots will commit violence against civilians, that advice means "surrender, let them win."  Nope.  I have a right to protest my government.  My wife has a right to protest our government.  My children have that right.  If the government will use violence to stop them from doing so, the problem isn't my children, or my willingness to let them protest -- it's....go with me here....the kind of fucking government that uses violence indiscriminately against its citizens.  Period, full stop.

[Brisketexan 104628]

5 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

He didn't say let kids protest.  He said "MAKE them teargas and beat children."  Do either of you agree with that statement?

Pssst.....your first two sentences say the same thing.  Let kids protest in Portland?  They WILL be teargassed and attacked.  That's the fucking point, that you chose to ignore.

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Pages and pages of evidence of soldiers kidnapping, abusing, and tear-gassing peaceful protesters. Not once did you feel called to say anything about the clearly thuggish and illegal behavior by the soldiers.

As soon as you thought you saw something you could jump on from the other side you piped up.

You're a moron and a coward.

Correct.  Attack the people who would have their family exercise their constitutional right to peacefully assemble and seek redress of their grievances......not the jackboots who would teargas and attack them for doing so.  America, 2020 in a nutshell.

Oh, and AOC, have some spine, and answer my question -- was it wrong for kids to march in Birmingham?

Edited July 20, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Huckleberry 32704]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And what they don't get is that to do otherwise means the jackboots win -- it's surrender to their violent intimidation, pure and simple.

"The jackboots will shoot you!  So it's irresponsible to go out and protest them -- they'll shoot you!"  When the fucking thing you are protesting is the fact that the jackboots will commit violence against civilians, that advice means "surrender, let them win."  Nope.  I have a right to protest my government.  My wife has a right to protest our government.  My children have that right.  If the government will use violence to stop them from doing so, the problem isn't my children, or my willingness to let them protest -- it's....go with me here....the kind of fucking government that uses violence indiscriminately against its citizens.  Period, full stop.

Yes, this is also true and obvious to actually smart people.

Government soldiers are attempting to intimidate citizens to prevent them from peacefully protesting. Brainwaves tell us the appropriate response to that is to stay away because it might be dangerous. You know, do exactly what the soldiers want you to do.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

Yes, this is also true and obvious to actually smart people.

Government soldiers are attempting to intimidate citizens to prevent them from peacefully protesting. Brainwaves tell us the appropriate response to that is to stay away because it might be dangerous. You know, do exactly what the soldiers want you to do.

Bingo.

[SubliminalHorn 6674]

Dark times ahead. At least we can say we lived through and participated in the defeat of a rise of right wing fascism in this country. Because there is no alternative. We have to beat them back. 

[Rougarou 594]

16 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

When did protesting become a sacrifice?  We are talking about walking in Portland, not navigating the jungles of Vietnam.  The fact that you see that risk tells you more about how unconsciously we expect police violence during a pretty standard expression of free speech.  

This is a weird response because the replies were specific to the premise that Brisket-made, which was super specific: 

Quote

Bring out the kids.  Yes, I know what I said.  Bring them out.  Bring out a phalanx of 12 year olds.  And let the jackboots teargas and beat them -- and trust me, they will.  It's what they do, it's what they are.  That's the nature of jackboots.  MAKE them teargas and beat children, in front of the country -- in front of the world."

So you see, nobody is unconsciously doing anything or betraying any sort of deep-seeded feelings or expectations, as much as it's responding to a detailed hypothetical or assumption that Brisket made. What is not debatable by his post, if you would have taken the time to read it, is that the people who would want the world to see, and finally for once and all, turn on the jackboots, is to maneuver and position the children so that they get hurt.

The implications and assumptions that can be made then just depend on your own interpretations based on your own cognitive biases and probably political leanings: Do the jackboots just betray their nature and who they are by beating the kids OR do the powers that be that brought impressionable minors (kids who "chose" but yet don't legally ((and arguably, reasonably)) have the power to do so,) do something to draw jackboots offsides in order to use children to advance a political end?

Regardless, we all specifically recognize conscripting African kids to the rebellion army and feeding them drugs and giving them an AK-47 is different than having our kids go to protests and trying to put them in a position where they can possibly be hurt, in order to help the public downfall of police and advance the agenda, but what makes it holistically different? 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Rougarou

[Brisketexan 104628]

Just now, SubliminalHorn said:

Dark times ahead. At least we can say we lived through and participated in the defeat of a rise of right wing fascism in this country. Because there is no alternative. We have to beat them back. 

This.  This isn't fucking recreational, idle chit-chat and shit.  It's literally the kind of thing that sees irregular governmental paramilitary forces in unmarked vehicles grabbing people off the street, and using teargas and clubs against people who aren't constituting a real-time threat.  It's fascist authoritarian violent oppression 101.  You either tolerate that, or you fight back against it.  There is no fucking opting out, you pick a side.

[hobbes2702 12847]

3 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

This is a weird response because the replies were specific to the premise that Brisket-made, which was super specific: 

So you see, nobody is unconsciously doing anything or betraying any sort of deep-seeded feelings or expectations, as much as it's responding to a detailed hypothetical or assumption that Brisket made. What is not debatable by his post, if you would have taken the time to read it, is that the people who would want the world to see, and finally for once and all, turn on the jackboots, is to maneuver and position the children so that they get hurt.

The implications and assumptions that can be made then just depend on your own interpretations based on your own cognitive biases and probably political leanings: Do the jackboots just betray their nature and who they are by beating the kids OR do the powers that be that brought impressionable minors (kids who "chose" but yet don't legally ((and arguably, reasonably)) have the power to do so,) do something to draw jackboots offsides in order to use children to advance a political end?

Regardless, we all specifically recognize conscripting African kids to the rebellion army and feeding them drugs and giving them an AK-47 is different than having our kids go to protests and trying to put them in a position where they can possibly be hurt, in order to help the public downfall of police and advance the agenda, but what makes it holistically different? 

 

Wow.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Good thread about where power lies and has always been, with the people. Worth the 28 tweet read. 

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

9 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Regardless, we all specifically recognize conscripting African kids to the rebellion army and feeding them drugs and giving them an AK-47 is different than having our kids go to protests and trying to put them in a position where they can possibly be hurt, in order to help the public downfall of police and advance the agenda, but what makes it holistically different? 

Because in the second scenario, my kids are exercising a constitutional right.  I was told that those were sacred, and that kids must be allowed to exercise them.  Was that memo incorrect?  Because it sure seemed important when it came to the 2nd amendment.

Fascinating that it is not important when it comes to the 1st and the 4th.

In my scenario, only one side will be breaking the law -- and it won't be the kids.  Understand that your argument against my approach amounts to "we cannot count on our government paramilitary forces not to break the law and brutalize its own citizens."  If you don't see that as the whole fucking problem, that says a lot.  And note that "we the people" win either way.  Either we protest peacefully, and the jackboots back down and are neutralized as an oppressive force, or we protest peacefully, and the jackboots are outed as an oppressive force.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Brisketexan

[TXSG8R 3360]

9 minutes ago, Axiom of Choice said:

He didn't say let kids protest.  He said "MAKE them teargas and beat children."  Do either of you agree with that statement?

 

 

What does that have to do with what I asked?  You can join the protest right now if you want.  

Quote

Bring out the kids.  Yes, I know what I said.  Bring them out.  Bring out a phalanx of 12 year olds.  And let the jackboots teargas and beat them -- and trust me, they will.  It's what they do, it's what they are.  That's the nature of jackboots.  MAKE them teargas and beat children, in front of the country -- in front of the world.  You want to turn the people against the regime?  That's how you do it.  It made a difference in Birmingham back in the day.

Selective quoting really destroys the intent.  By saying make them teargas and beat, with the bolded in front of that statement, shows hes talking about forcing the police to make a choice on whether to continue their tactics they have been using against the adults.  Not literally go to a cop, hold a gun to his head, and force him/her to teargas and beat kids.  

But admittedly, you anticipate that many cops would in fact, take the intended meaning, not your literal meaning.  That cops would in fact teargas and beat kids.  Thats what youre saying when you suggest its a sacrifice to put kids in that environment.  

[Anastasis 23394]

Note that for the record she is wearing a face mask.