Trump’s Gestapo in Portland

[elfenix 34174]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Brisketexan: "The soliders WILL commit acts of violence. It's who they are."
JBJ: "You could just as easily be talking about the protestors."
Huckleberry: "What a stupid thing to say."
JBJ: "How many times have they set federal buildings on fire? That's why the federal soldiers have to be there and protect buildings."
Huckleberry: "Good question. How many?"
JBJ: "I dunno."
Huckleberry: "I thought you knew. I don't know of any. They set local municipality buildings on fire twice."
Many others: "Yeah, they haven't set any federal buildings on fire."
JBJ: "Nobody can answer me, that's why my point is awesome."
 

which ignores the fact that arson, by itself, isn't a violent crime. 

[F250 28694]

26 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Out of curiosity, where sources are you relying on that have you identifying an entire major city as "anarchy?"

[Veerbone 116]

22 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Out of curiosity, where sources are you relying on that have you identifying an entire major city as "anarchy?"

Videos from news outlets & social media, the usual.

[Zonahorn 8079]

4 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

Videos from news outlets & social media, the usual.

lmao

[tantric superman 4667]

40 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

Simply going by the thread topic, not going to spend an hour reading 19 pgs, but could someone give me the Cliff’s notes here?

Im struggling to identify Portland as anything but anarchy much less the President’s gestapo.

I'm struggling to identify Portland as having anything other than a few blocks of anarchy and the rest being completely orderly.

Which of us are correct is what I'd want someone to net out for me.

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

There are tiny pockets of "anarchy" in Portland for a couple of hours a night. And the result has been... a handful of injuries and zero deaths?

Oh no!

[tantric superman 4667]

 

 

41 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What is the overlay with "smells like patchouli?"  Because I fucking hate patchouli.  Growing up in Houston, I never really smelled it.  Got to Austin, and I immediately associated it with the unwashed hippies who always seemed to carry that smell.

Fucking patchouli, man.

 

Use this stuff whenever I go to Marin, although I couldn't find any this trip.

By the way, the trip to West Marin was great.  Everyone wore masks, and people actually seemed in a better mood than usual.  Back a week today and no obvious covid yet...

Edited July 21, 2020 by tantric superman

[tantric superman 4667]

12 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

Videos from news outlets & social media, the usual.

Super panoramic videos?

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

I find it hard to identify Portland as anything but Sodom and Gomorrah, really.  I can't believe people actually raise kids in that lawless wasteland where the homeless filth and anti-gun libruls all hang out nekkid and do drugs together.  

Oh wait, sorry, that's just me recalling my Round Rock/Cedar Park co-workers years back who were shocked a nice guy like me lived in Austin after I had kids.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by MC Fresh Breath

[Veerbone 116]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

There are tiny pockets of "anarchy" in Portland for a couple of hours a night. And the result has been... a handful of injuries and zero deaths?

Oh no!

$6M in property damages doesn’t reflect that statement.  

[G650 14111]

52 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is 100% true. My mom was a hippie. My dad was (in the parlance of the times) a "street fighting man". Very different subcultures. 

Best Stones song ever.

[bad_teammate 13132]

6 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

$6M in property damages doesn’t reflect that statement.  

Which part of the statement does it not reflect?

2+ months of tiny pockets of anarchy can lead to a lot of property damage. And... who gives a shit? The government should make small business owners whole if their property is damaged during social disturbances like this caused by government abuse and incompetence.

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

5 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Which part of the statement does it not reflect?

2+ months of tiny pockets of anarchy can lead to a lot of property damage. And... who gives a shit? The government should make small business owners whole if their property is damaged during social disturbances like this caused by government abuse and incompetence.

That works out to around what(?) nine dollars a person in Portland. Economic advisors couldn’t be bothered to help Americans beyond a pittance and a ‘forget your healthcare’ just get me my stocks back’; I’d say the Feds are lucky the protestors didn’t decide to turn the courthouse into housing for those evicted. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

25 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

$6M in property damages doesn’t reflect that statement.  

i mean, feeling the need to position yourself on something that pathetic certainly gives a pointer as to whether you are just some interested citizen here to learn. 

[CowboyFred 1151]

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m not sure JBJ was trolling.  If he was posting on Texags or tigerdroppings, he’d be considered normal/correct. 

He would still be a fucking idiot so he’s got that going for him...which is nice.

[CooterBrown 17914]

I didn't know Axiom was CoC. CoC has some odd beliefs, that is pretty surprising.

What’s interesting is that the line you cross into being “odd” is on the other side of believing in an invisible man who has a zombie son and is omnipotent but still has low enough self esteem that he condemns you to hell if you don’t submit to him absolutely. That’s the normal side of the line.

[Veerbone 116]

10 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

i mean, feeling the need to position yourself on something that pathetic certainly gives a pointer as to whether you are just some interested citizen here to learn. 

Countering a claim that the “anarchy isn’t hurting anyone” by referencing a significant amount of destruction & loss is a pathetic position?   
 

Extend the losses to private small business owners, municipal recovery etc & it’s going to exceed $35M.   
 

I asked the question of how it’s a Trump gestapo vs anarchy & the home team comes back with “it’s an anarchy but small & who cares about the damage”.

What do you think I’ve learned here so far?

[Huckleberry 32704]

3 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

Countering a claim that the “anarchy isn’t hurting anyone” by referencing a significant amount of destruction & loss is a pathetic position?   
 

Extend the losses to private small business owners, municipal recovery etc & it’s going to exceed $35M.   
 

I asked the question of how it’s a Trump gestapo vs anarchy & the home team comes back with “it’s an anarchy but small & who cares about the damage”.

What do you think I’ve learned here so far?

Well you've obviously learned nothing, but the key takeaway is that nobody bought your bullshit from the start. So there's that.

[tantric superman 4667]

1 minute ago, Veerbone said:

What do you think I’ve learned here so far?

When you start out essentially saying an entire city is in anarchy, and don't even try to support your statement?  I'm certain you haven't learned a thing.

[hobbes2702 12849]

11 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

Countering a claim that the “anarchy isn’t hurting anyone” by referencing a significant amount of destruction & loss is a pathetic position?   
 

Extend the losses to private small business owners, municipal recovery etc & it’s going to exceed $35M.   
 

I asked the question of how it’s a Trump gestapo vs anarchy & the home team comes back with “it’s an anarchy but small & who cares about the damage”.

What do you think I’ve learned here so far?

Is it appropriate for federal law enforcement agents to be arresting people without identifying themselves and without justification?

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

15 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

Countering a claim that the “anarchy isn’t hurting anyone” by referencing a significant amount of destruction & loss is a pathetic position?   
 

Extend the losses to private small business owners, municipal recovery etc & it’s going to exceed $35M.   
 

I asked the question of how it’s a Trump gestapo vs anarchy & the home team comes back with “it’s an anarchy but small & who cares about the damage”.

What do you think I’ve learned here so far?

OMG!! I'm devastated.

You raised the ante from $6 million to 35 million which raises the per person cost in Portland from about 9 dollars to about 54 dollars to cover the loss. That is not insignificant until you realize that the bill that Chaaaaaaad is going to send back for a trip he didn't need to take is going to cost a hell of a lot more. Had the tenor of this (Chad's and the DHS troop trip) been above board from the start, the US wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

What is true is that SBOs will be affected and they should be assisted. But Chad? No. Fuck him and the limo he rode in on.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
clarifying statement

[workswithseed 2037]

Just now, Mrs Whiggins said:

OMG!! I'm devastated.

You raised the ante from $6 million to 35 million which raises the per person cost in Portland from about 9 dollars to about 54 dollars to cover the loss. That is not insignificant until you realize that the bill that Chaaaaaaad is going to send back for a trip he didn't need to take is going to cost a hell of a lot more. Had the tenor of this been above board from the start, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

What is true is that SBOs will be affected and they should be assisted. But Chad? No. Fuck him and the limo he rode in on.

Why should i cover this?

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Who said you were?

Maybe we can hit up the Ohio Speaker of the House. He seems to be flush right now.

[Guest Lobo]

Where does he live? 

[Rougarou 594]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Why should i cover this?

Because you choose to live in a horrible place.

[Rougarou 594]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Who said you were?

Maybe we can hit up the Ohio Speaker of the House. He seems to be flush right now.

He lives in Portland, right?

[Captainant 27468]

1 minute ago, Rougarou said:

He lives in Portland, right?

more like Porkland, amirite?

[Veerbone 116]

17 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

When you start out essentially saying an entire city is in anarchy, and don't even try to support your statement?  I'm certain you haven't learned a thing.

By the responses it became apparent even the home team agreed “this is anarchy”.  
 

 

[Rougarou 594]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

more like Porkland, amirite?

Haha. I'm just saying, I have no sympathy for people who choose to live somewhere with a population/culture that is antithetical to their own, and then complain and gripe about having to deal with the consequences of living there. Vote with your caravan, like our ancestors did, I say.

[Huckleberry 32704]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Why should i cover this?

Because you're part of a community and community members help out other community members when they need it.

Because you're not a completely self-centered jerk who only cares about himself and doesn't care about his neighbors.

Because you have taken from your community and should therefore give back to your community. 

Because you should restore the damage-causers with a spirit of gentleness. Even carry their burdens, and in so doing you can fulfill the Law of Christ.

Basically you should cover it because "covering this" is one of the main messages of the Bible.

Good luck!

[Huckleberry 32704]

2 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

By the responses it became apparent even the home team agreed “this is anarchy”.  
 

 

Please point out these responses that indicate people agreed with you that Portland is in the throes of anarchy.

We'll even ignore from now the obviously disingenuous position you're trying to argue from made clear by juvenile phrases such as "home team." We'll go ahead and pretend for the purposes of this exchange that you're arguing in good faith.

So please, point out the multiple responses that made it clear everyone agrees it's anarchy in Portland right now.

[workswithseed 2037]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Because you're part of a community and community members help out other community members when they need it.

Because you're not a completely self-centered jerk who only cares about himself and doesn't care about his neighbors.

Because you have taken from your community and should therefore give back to your community. 

Because you should restore the damage-causers with a spirit of gentleness. Even carry their burdens, and in so doing you can fulfill the Law of Christ.

Basically you should cover it because "covering this" is one of the main messages of the Bible.

Good luck!

Charity is one thing, government taking it from me is another. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by workswithseed

[Rougarou 594]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Charity is one thing, government taking it from me is another. 

You chose to live there. Don't act like this is Force majeure. This is a reasonable expectation for someone who chooses to live in Portland. We have no sympathy for you here, my friend.

[Veerbone 116]

10 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Is it appropriate for federal law enforcement agents to be arresting people without identifying themselves and without justification?

Kudos, the only reply that directly points to the question I respectfully asked.
 

No I don’t think it’s appropriate for a party to execute arrest without identification.  Legally?  I’m not certain but unfortunately I think they have that right at a federal level.

Justified?  Honestly I don’t have an opinion formed as I haven’t heard qualified positions on it from each side.

To each their own, but I thought it was insanity & stupidity prior to the Feds rolling in.   Destruction & violence is for meat heads, never really associated the liberals side with meat heads but here we are.

 

[hobbes2702 12849]

Just now, Veerbone said:

Kudos, the only reply that directly points to the question I respectfully asked.
 

No I don’t think it’s appropriate for a party to execute arrest without identification.  Legally?  I’m not certain but unfortunately I think they have that right at a federal level.

Justified?  Honestly I don’t have an opinion formed as I haven’t heard qualified positions on it from each side.

To each their own, but I thought it was insanity & stupidity prior to the Feds rolling in.   Destruction & violence is for meat heads, never really associated the liberals side with meat heads but here we are.

 

You haven’t formed an opinion on whether or not it’s appropriate for a federal police force to arrest people without cause? This is pretty simple.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Seriously now--

This is going to be a tough question to answer. IRL, I know people who live in Portland and yeah, this is going to be a pain to deal with. Not just Portland, any of the larger urban areas. We've all been kicking the can down the road: move out of the city, pay taxes to the burb communities, make it more and more difficult for the service workers to afford housing no matter where they can live, transportation which is necessary for 'burb life, healthcare, and on and on, and then get upset when they cry: stop beating us (police) and stop beating us down. The idea that every one of the people out there at night are freeloading vandals is not correct. The ransacking vandals are the wealthiest connected Americans of various political stripes who figure out a way to stop and frisk us of our dignity and our wallets even though we outnumber them.

Should destructive people be charged with being destructive? Sure. But why do we view their property crime in a degree of magnitude worse than the displacement and grift of taxpayer boondoggles of some of the institutions that surround their lives? It isn't just that we said to fellow Americans 'no room at the inn,' we left them in the dessert and said 'hey fuck you, you're not getting mines.'

[workswithseed 2037]

1 minute ago, Rougarou said:

You chose to live there. Don't act like this is Force majeure. This is a reasonable expectation for someone who chooses to live in Portland. We have no sympathy for you here, my friend.

I can get that, but just saying that I should be okay with it is another thing since it's my Christian duty to be taxed till all the problems of the city is gone is another.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

3 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

Kudos, the only reply that directly points to the question I respectfully asked.
 

No I don’t think it’s appropriate for a party to execute arrest without identification.  Legally?  I’m not certain but unfortunately I think they have that right at a federal level.

Justified?  Honestly I don’t have an opinion formed as I haven’t heard qualified positions on it from each side.

To each their own, but I thought it was insanity & stupidity prior to the Feds rolling in.   Destruction & violence is for meat heads, never really associated the liberals side with meat heads but here we are.

 

Given the Proud Boys connection to Portland, I'm not sure all of the destruction and violence is perpetrated solely by the liberal citizenry. Psy-ops is a thing. Granted, I've not seen proof of it.

Roger Stone hanging out with them and proudly instagramming with them right after he was pardoned shows you some fun links between the WH and supremacist groups.

[Mole 4320]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Smelling Patchouli reminds me of the Drag rats. 

You know times are serious when the board ignores a drag rat vs drag worm debate.

[Veerbone 116]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

You haven’t formed an opinion on whether or not it’s appropriate for a federal police force to arrest people without cause? This is pretty simple.

 

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

You haven’t formed an opinion on whether or not it’s appropriate for a federal police force to arrest people without cause? This is pretty simple.

Of course not, reread slowly as stated I needed more feedback to assess the “cause”.   You know... logic over emotions.
 

Hopefully the other side won’t be an emotional bitch & will educate me sensibly. 

[tantric superman 4667]

19 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

By the responses it became apparent even the home team agreed “this is anarchy”.  
 

 

Oh boy.  I'll let Huckleberry respond to you. 

Ultimately, to me the various cities are going to have to bear the costs of whatever protests/riots/property damage they suffered.  The voters will either support their localities response or they will not and vote the leaders out.  Trump and the feds will likely be held to have exacerbated the situations in those cities (by critical thinkers) and certain state governors (Abbott) will be deemed to have gone awol.  

The protests, in general, are going to be a catharsis for some younger voters.  To the extent Trump isn't successful in causing more problems, and to the extent property damage and economic loss are addressed, the general fallout will be net positive for moving forward. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by tantric superman

[hobbes2702 12849]

Just now, Veerbone said:

 

Of course not, reread slowly as stated I needed more feedback to assess the “cause”.   You know... logic over emotions.
 

Hopefully the other side won’t be an emotional bitch & will educate me sensibly. 

Is there any cause for federal agents arresting citizens that have not committed a crime?

[workswithseed 2037]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Seriously now--

This is going to be a tough question to answer. IRL, I know people who live in Portland and yeah, this is going to be a pain to deal with. Not just Portland, any of the larger urban areas. We've all been kicking the can down the road: move out of the city, pay taxes to the burb communities, make it more and more difficult for the service workers to afford housing no matter where they can live, transportation which is necessary for 'burb life, healthcare, and on and on, and then get upset when they cry: stop beating us (police) and stop beating us down. The idea that every one of the people out there at night are freeloading vandals is not correct. The ransacking vandals are the wealthiest connected Americans of various political stripes who figure out a way to stop and frisk us of our dignity and our wallets even though we outnumber them.

Should destructive people be charged with being destructive? Sure. But why do we view their property crime in a degree of magnitude worse than the displacement and grift of taxpayer boondoggles of some of the institutions that surround their lives? It isn't just that we said to fellow Americans 'no room at the inn,' we left them in the dessert and said 'hey fuck you, you're not getting mines.'

Maybe I'm misreading you, but are you saying that it's the tax base who feels like they're being taxed too much and leaves fault for the inequality?

[Huckleberry 32704]

4 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

 

Of course not, reread slowly as stated I needed more feedback to assess the “cause”.   You know... logic over emotions.
 

Hopefully the other side won’t be an emotional bitch & will educate me sensibly. 

Oh we're not emotional about the fact that you're being a doofus. What you've done so far on this thread is essentially try to change your approach from "Hey guys, I don't know anything but assume that the DHS soldiers tear-gassing and abusing American citizens who haven't done anything wrong are in the right, obviously. What's up?" to "No seriously, I don't want to read, someone spoon feed me information. Just asking questions, guys." and now drifting toward "I hope everyone else isn't emotional, I just want to see these citizens prove their innocence otherwise violent assault by officers who aren't identifying themselves is perfectly understandable. Presumption of guilt is a bedrock of our nation."

Edited July 21, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

Maybe I'm misreading you, but are you saying that it's the tax base who feels like they're being taxed too much and leaves fault for the inequality?

No, I'm saying this was decades in the making. It's what happens when the generations before you have a glacial approach to addressing persistent systemic injustices and those in power benefit from continuing those structures. YOU (and the rest of us) will somehow end up paying (or not, if we kick the can down the road further to our children and their children) but @tantric superman's second paragraph was able to express what I'm getting at more clearly.

 

[Yuk 1509]

12 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

 

Of course not, reread slowly as stated I needed more feedback to assess the “cause”.   You know... logic over emotions.
 

Hopefully the other side won’t be an emotional bitch & will educate me sensibly. 

 

[Veerbone 116]

5 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Is there any cause for federal agents arresting citizens that have not committed a crime?

None that I’m aware of nor that I would support.   I’ve had two horrific experiences with law enforcement one by confusion & one that was pure assault without reason.  
 

If you haven’t committed a crime it’s a brutal pill to swallow.  

[wildcat09 29263]

22 minutes ago, Veerbone said:

 

Of course not, reread slowly as stated I needed more feedback to assess the “cause”.   You know... logic over emotions.
 

Hopefully the other side won’t be an emotional bitch & will educate me sensibly. 

Lol, we've got a facts don't care about your feelings guy over here. Let's all laugh at him.