Trump’s Gestapo in Portland

[StruggleBus 3922]

I'm way out of the loop. What exactly is it that we are protesting in Portland right now?

[Anastasis 23699]

1 minute ago, StruggleBus said:

I'm way out of the loop. What exactly is it that we are protesting in Portland right now?

[wildcat09 29556]

2 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

I'm way out of the loop. What exactly is it that we are protesting in Portland right now?

The protests were against the oppressive violence from the Portland Police Bureau, but a courthouse got tagged with some graffiti and Trump wanted to make a big show of force so now it's also against the illegal and oppressive violence of the federal government.

[Dahobbs 18190]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

The protests were against the oppressive violence from the Portland Police Bureau, but a courthouse got tagged with some graffiti and Trump wanted to make a big show of force so now it's also against the illegal and oppressive violence of the federal government.

That's what funny. I'm pretty sure everything would have calmed down on its own had the feds not come in. 

[Mdhorn 6153]

2 hours ago, hpslugga said:

What else would you expect...

 

 

 

FROM A DOMESTIC TERRORIST???

The masks are defenses for gas and the shield that looks like it's taken some abuse, too, is a defensive item.  I'm surprised Ken didn't add a hammer and sickle, for the double entendre. 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

That's what funny. I'm pretty sure everything would have calmed down on its own had the feds not come in. 

the reaction from the jump has to only worsen things.  immediately after the murder of floyd, the police reaction was to make a human wall around the murderer's house.  all that had to happen was have one police chief say "holy shit.  did you see that cop murder that guy?  looks like it's time to make some arrests."  then you can make a human wall all you want because we can't have vigilante justice and all that.  instead, they only do the act that says "i support the cops' side no matter the facts."  of fucking course that is going to escalate things.

[lemonlime 5503]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's what funny. I'm pretty sure everything would have calmed down on its own had the feds not come in. 

Which was the entire point of the feds coming in.  Need to drum up fear in time for the election.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's what funny. I'm pretty sure everything would have calmed down on its own had the feds not come in. 

This.

Pretty much every local reporter that I have followed (save the outside/local media that are aligned with far right hate groups like the Proud Boys) has reported that things were stable and the police and locals had reached I dunno what the term would be for it--detente? An understanding? A lessening of aggression maybe? It is why they (reporters) were pleading with the WH to be allowed to ask questions at these briefings by Wolf, et al.

This is the show of force designed to reassure the fearful (LAW AND ORDER) at the same time it scares them (CARAVANS!!). It works.

 

[BearSchlong 8231]

10 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Now other people who sympathize with the protesters shouldn't go to Portland to join them? I'm so confused by these right-wing takes.

I'm not a right winger by any stretch.  I usually stay out of the cloak room because it's so binary.  Thanks for proving my theory.

[Brisketexan 106618]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The protests were against the oppressive violence from the Portland Police Bureau, but a courthouse got tagged with some graffiti and Trump wanted to make a big show of force so now it's also against the illegal and oppressive violence of the federal government.

 

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's what funny. I'm pretty sure everything would have calmed down on its own had the feds not come in. 

These.  Anyone with two braincells who has ever dealt with adversarial conflict (so, I mean, even a lowly fucking lawyer like me) knows that in most situations, so long as the harm is relatively minor and contained (and I'd say that tagging a building with paint is the definition of de minimis harm), then the proven way to calm a situation down is to stand off and let the pot of boiling water cool off on its own.

I truly can't tell you how many times I've advised a client to just hold their horses, don't engage, and the problem will peter out on its own.  It's been the correct advice pretty close to 100% of the time.

The Trump show of force wasn't about protecting property, or protecting people, or anything like that.  It was about a show of force by the little-dick-energy crowd, who live to be bullies.  It wasn't the response of the leader of a democratic republic who wants to allow for peaceful protests while limiting harm; it was the response of an authoritarian fascist regime which, contrary to their cries of "LAW AND ORDER," wanted to go out and prove that law and order only applies to the people, not to the regime.  And they've proven their point.

Now, we prove ours.

[Brisketexan 106618]

3 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

I'm not a right winger by any stretch.  I usually stay out of the cloak room because it's so binary.  Thanks for proving my theory.

I didn't call you a right winger - I know you aren't.  I did ask you a question, though, and I thought it was a good one.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

8 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

What an idiot.

 

"Here are three defensive devices which protect specifically against the rubber bullets and tear gas used by my gestapo.  Notice that none of these three devices are offensive weaponry."

-fixed it for him.

[wildcat09 29556]

6 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

I'm not a right winger by any stretch.  I usually stay out of the cloak room because it's so binary.  Thanks for proving my theory.

If you’re gonna dip your toe in these waters to bitch about protesters and not the stormtroopers, you might be more right wing than you’re willing to acknowledge.

Edited July 23, 2020 by wildcat09

[Anastasis 23699]

Gotta admire the improvised shield made out of a water heater drain pan.  

[BearSchlong 8231]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I didn't call you a right winger - I know you aren't.  I did ask you a question, though, and I thought it was a good one.

Sorry, was multitasking. Rule of law went out the window a loooooong time ago in this country, if it ever existed at all.  I don't really think it did.  That's just the way it is.

[Continental Op 3934]

Today I learned that it's totally cool to bust a billy club on a protester's head if they're from out if state!

Edited July 23, 2020 by Continental Op

[Brisketexan 106618]

Just now, BearSchlong said:

Sorry, was multitasking. Rule of law went out the window a loooooong time ago in this country, if it ever existed at all.  I don't really think it did.  That's just the way it is.

Well, then, once you concede that......then what action taken by the people against an oppressive regime can be deemed "wrong?"

Kind of our entire point for those of us who have been warning for years that the natural outcome of one party opting out of the Rule of Law is anarchy.  And despite all of our warnings, the regime and its sycophants cheerfully barreled-ass towards absolutely destroying the Rule of Law.  And now they bitch about anarchy?

[Huckleberry 34407]

6 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Sorry, was multitasking. Rule of law went out the window a loooooong time ago in this country, if it ever existed at all.  I don't really think it did.  That's just the way it is.

You should probably tell your sister to stop indicting people then.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Huckleberry

[BearSchlong 8231]

15 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

If you’re gonna dip your toe in these waters to bitch about protesters and not the stormtroopers, you might be more right wing than you’re willing to acknowledge.

I'm not bitching about protestors, I'm just reporting what the local, permanent DOJ contingent is dealing with, not suggesting any solutions.  I've honestly been learning about Oregon as that is where half my family now lives and I've spent an increasing amount of time there in the last few years.

[Brisketexan 106618]

Just now, BearSchlong said:

I'm not bitching about protestors, I'm just reporting what the local, permanent DOJ contingent is dealing with, not suggesting any solutions.  I've honestly been learning about Oregon as that is where half my family now lives and I've spent an increasing amount of time there in the last few years.

I ask this honestly and genuinely -- I'd like to know what the local DOJ thinks of imported federal shock troops coming in and cracking skulls, including of innocents.

[wildcat09 29556]

Just now, BearSchlong said:

I'm not bitching about protestors, I'm just reporting what the local, permanent DOJ contingent is dealing with, not suggesting any solutions.  I've honestly been learning about Oregon as that is where half my family now lives and I've spent an increasing amount of time there in the last few years.

Alright. Sorry for the broad brush. Most posters who duck in to Cloak Room right now to make similar comments have been right-wing trolls trying to delegitimize protest against fascism and our patience is thin.

[F250 29174]

53 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Anastasis completely agrees with Hugo right now but can't stop saying both sides or trying to withdraw from the specific actions actually happening in order to seem like he's not blaming a particular group. It's funny.

It's obvious that he is blaming federal law enforcement in a thread about the abuse of federal law enforcement started by a poster that had a recent crush on federal law enforcement.

 

 

[Mole 4338]

34 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's what funny. I'm pretty sure everything would have calmed down on its own had the feds not come in. 

It’s kneeling during the National Anthem part 2. Take a wedge conflict that’s dying down and amp it back up to make it into a political crisis.

[Huckleberry 34407]

18 minutes ago, F250 said:

It's obvious that he is blaming federal law enforcement in a thread about the abuse of federal law enforcement started by a poster that had a recent crush on federal law enforcement.

Yes he is. But as always, is unable to specifically discuss the abuses happening in the currently happening event without trying to draw parallels to other things. Hugo's a doofus, but Anastasis is equally unable to modify his behavior.

Their conversation could be summed up as "This sucks." "Yeah, you're right, this sucks." But neither of them can do that.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

59 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's what funny. I'm pretty sure everything would have calmed down on its own had the feds not come in. 

It was calming down. Protests were dwindling signifcantly in NYC, but are coming back now.  I think it was @Wulaw Horn who said that he thought all this would quietly go away with very little change in policing. I agreed and I think that had already started happening before the feds rushed in. Now, I think something will change because of it.  Whether it changes for the worse or the better remains to be seen. 

[Beau Vine 55824]

Not to be stupid, but what is keeping the Portland police and ONG from arresting the fed goons?

[Nivek 17330]

Not to be stupid, but what is keeping the Portland police and ONG from arresting the fed goons?

A spine.

[wildcat09 29556]

3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Not to be stupid, but what is keeping the Portland police and ONG from arresting the fed goons?

Why would fascists arrest other fascists?

[Beau Vine 55824]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

In all fairness, there are like 12 black people in Portland. 

Actually, they're all in Orlando this month.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why would fascists arrest other fascists?

Fascists don't like competition. There's only one king in Portland and that is the President of the Portland Police Association.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

31 minutes ago, F250 said:

It's obvious that he is blaming federal law enforcement in a thread about the abuse of federal law enforcement started by a poster that had a recent crush on federal law enforcement.

Excuse me for pulling for obvious criminals to get caught.  Maybe I’m capable of realizing my previous perception of law enforcement was misguided and naive. Maybe I have seen the error of my ways and come to a new understanding.  I’m completely different from where I was politically five years ago and I was a huge piece of shit in my youth.  End of Rockie IV speech. 

[RomaVicta 30501]

52 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Gotta admire the improvised shield made out of a water heater drain pan.  

Respect for recognizing it. 

[F250 29174]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Excuse me for pulling for obvious criminals to get caught.  Maybe I’m capable of realizing my previous perception of law enforcement was misguided and naive. Maybe I have seen the error of my ways and come to a new understanding.  I’m completely different from where I was politically five years ago and I was a huge piece of shit in my youth.  End of Rockie IV speech. 

I'll take it into consideration but your politics do shift around a lot. Some of things you were advocating for a couple of years ago would have been tools that the Trump administration would totally have abused. See the section 230 fuckery for example.

[RDCanecutter 26853]

11 hours ago, ousuxndallas said:

If history holds true, there will be a response to the Marxist/communist violence. And it will likely be groups of far, far right people that start rounding up agitators, and taking things into their own hands. If the Marxists can't self police, and the local governments don't keep them in check, then it falls to the feds to intervene. If that is rejected, history shows us the ensuing response will not be favorable to the Marxists. Examples abound in Central America and Eastern Europe post WWII.

Pick your poison. Be careful what you wish for.

Those Central American and Eastern European far right folks were rangy soccer-playing guys who'd chase you up a hill and jump a few walls doing it. American ones will waste hours looking for a parking spot next to the door.

[Anastasis 23699]

23 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Why would fascists arrest other fascists?

"Call the police if the police are breaking the law."

/Holds breath/

[Anastasis 23699]

  

22 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yes he is. But as always, is unable to specifically discuss the abuses happening in the currently happening event without trying to draw parallels to other things. Hugo's a doofus, but Anastasis is equally unable to modify his behavior.

Their conversation could be summed up as "This sucks." "Yeah, you're right, this sucks." But neither of them can do that.

The passive aggressiveness is real. I don't know what your issue is, but if you want to engage me, go ahead and quote what you disagree with and engage it. And your summary is inaccurate. I specifically indicated agreement with Hugo after he echoed the same thing that I posted.

Discussion of current events within the broader context of our long-term fascination with militarizing our police force is relevant. The parallels to long standing abuses by federal three letter agencies, the role of the MIC, and the influence of our foreign policy posture on domestic LE posture are more than just relevant parallels, they are completely integrated issues. I think that these things need to be highlighted, at least if you actually want any of this to really fundamentally change in a meaningful way.

The acute problem is the Trump administration deploying federal law enforcement resources against US citizens exercising their first amendment rights. The broader issue is the very existence of those federal, domestically facing law enforcement capabilities in their current form. We never should have vested these types of powers in the Executive branch. Some of us, including yourself if my memory serves correctly, were inclined to warn about the potential for abuse and threat to liberty.  Well, here we are.  But Carter Page or something!

[BearSchlong 8231]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I ask this honestly and genuinely -- I'd like to know what the local DOJ thinks of imported federal shock troops coming in and cracking skulls, including of innocents.

He hasn't addressed this directly with his staff - but he is an Obama appointee, and his staff is investigating every allegation of violence against protestors.  I expect federal agents to be charged.

Anecdotally, his people hate what Trump did - especially since he's using them to get reelected.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

 Some of things you were advocating for a couple of years ago would have been tools that the Trump administration would totally have abused. See the section 230 fuckery for example.

I honestly would like to know more specifically about what you’re talking about. I don’t remember advocating for anything beyond outlawing bots or exploring ways to limit online foreign election interference. 

[Yuk 1612]

11 hours ago, ousuxndallas said:

If history holds true, there will be a response to the Marxist/communist violence. And it will likely be groups of far, far right people that start rounding up agitators, and taking things into their own hands. If the Marxists can't self police, and the local governments don't keep them in check, then it falls to the feds to intervene. If that is rejected, history shows us the ensuing response will not be favorable to the Marxists. Examples abound in Central America and Eastern Europe post WWII.

Pick your poison. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Brisketexan 106618]

3 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

He hasn't addressed this directly with his staff - but he is an Obama appointee, and his staff is investigating every allegation of violence against protestors.  I expect federal agents to be charged.

Anecdotally, his people hate what Trump did - especially since he's using them to get reelected.

That's good to hear.  My experience with local DOJ folks has generally been that they are good folks, law and order sticklers (maybe more than I'd care for, but they ARE consistent), and ethical.  I am encouraged to hear that at least some of them are maintaining that position in the face of an utter shitstorm.

[workswithseed 2201]

Portland police are ordered by the mayor, and I doubt he's fascist. I also doubt that the police in Portland are that way as well. Portland police have had problems since many have left, and they try to get surrounding city police to help, but they said fuck that shit.

[wildcat09 29556]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

Portland police are ordered by the mayor, and I doubt he's fascist. I also doubt that the police in Portland are that way as well. Portland police have had problems since many have left, and they try to get surrounding city police to help, but they said fuck that shit.

It varies from city to city, but most police departments despise the civilian government and have the de facto ability to ignore any orders they don’t like. NYPD is the most obvious example. Their union literally declared war on the City and tweeted out the home address of the mayor’s daughter. They openly defy the local mask order. De Blasio came into office as a reformer and they’ve completely broken him.

If Wheeler ordered the PPB to stand down, there’s a good chance they’d tell him to fuck himself.

[elfenix 34658]

11 hours ago, ousuxndallas said:

If history holds true, there will be a response to the Marxist/communist violence. And it will likely be groups of far, far right people that start rounding up agitators, and taking things into their own hands. If the Marxists can't self police, and the local governments don't keep them in check, then it falls to the feds to intervene. If that is rejected, history shows us the ensuing response will not be favorable to the Marxists. Examples abound in Central America and Eastern Europe post WWII.

Pick your poison. Be careful what you wish for.

gosh all these central american counterrevolutionaries just keep happening to find big caches of guns and money that were just laying around!

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

In all fairness, there are like 12 black people in Portland. 

Yeah but there are a whole shitload of white liberal apologists who are a “traitor to their race.” It’s why trump/miller chose Portland first as it’s test run. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by JimmyJames
Forgot the quotes

[workswithseed 2201]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

It varies from city to city, but most police departments despise the civilian government and have the de facto ability to ignore any orders they don’t like. NYPD is the most obvious example. Their union literally declared war on the City and tweeted out the home address of the mayor’s daughter. They openly defy the local mask order. De Blasio came into office as a reformer and they’ve completely broken him.

If Wheeler ordered the PPB to stand down, there’s a good chance they’d tell him to fuck himself.

There's a reason many of the police have left from Portland.

This is from 5 months ago where the camera man gets chased while being called a fascists, and runs into the police for protection, and the police say "We're not going out there to protect you."

[BrickHorn 18424]

57 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Not to be stupid, but what is keeping the Portland police and ONG from arresting the fed goons?

[JimmyJames 12271]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

There's a reason many of the police have left from Portland.

This is from 5 months ago where the camera man gets chased while being called a fascists, and runs into the police for protection, and the police say "We're not going out there to protect you."

So have the police left yet or not? 

[workswithseed 2201]

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

So have the police left yet or not? 

I mean there is still police, but like the homeless, they're staying on the outskirts of South Portland right now for the most part. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by workswithseed

[Brisketexan 106618]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I mean there is still police, but like the homeless, they're staying on the outskirts of South Portland right now for the most part. 

So, instead of engaging with protest leadership and trying to forge a path forward that is best for all concerned, they are going to pout in their corner until everyone gives them a pat on the back and open-ended permission to crack skulls to their hearts' content.  I mean, it's a hard task -- but super manly men with tactical everything, down to their tactical underwear, should be able to handle it.  Instead.....Cowardice and petulance over leadership and courage.  Cool, cool.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Brisketexan

[F250 29174]

14 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I honestly would like to know more specifically about what you’re talking about. I don’t remember advocating for anything beyond outlawing bots or exploring ways to limit online foreign election interference. 

It was on ToS. You were casting a pretty broad net (disinformation censorship) as you considered foreign election interference a major threat on social media platforms. We had a few heated exchanges on the topic. This was back when you thought everyone was a Russian asset like Glenn Greenwald.