Trump’s Gestapo in Portland

Anastasis · July 23, 2020

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, I think they can and should all have a role. I just see libertarians as the ultimate ineffective fart-sniffers. Which is hugely disappointing, as my beliefs significantly overlap with a lot of libertarian positions.

If you are referring to capital L libertarians, I totally agree. They are not a serious political party. Gary Johnson was a fucking joke of a candidate, when they needed to put their best foot forward. And perhaps they did.

That being said, I think certain libertarian principles have a place in American governance and especially political dialog. Dogmatism is your enemy, not libertarianism. But it is curious that you hold such a high standard when judging the ineffectiveness of libertarians, but give the long and storied legislative accomplishments of the democratic socialists a pass. And highlighting ineffectiveness in that regard is not intended to take anything away from Bernie for shifting the dialog around universal healthcare, for example. That is an example of precisely why we need voices from the "extremes" arguing from strong ideological positions. They contribute to the dialog and move the squishy people in the middle around. Just like we need folks with libertarian inclinations arguing, back to relevance in this thread, about 1033, militarization of the domestic police state, and funding of our MIC, etc.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Anastasis

Dnaguy · July 23, 2020

IG fired in T-minus......

Foosters · July 23, 2020

6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I totally agree.

Nivek · July 23, 2020

There aren't any. And, the average teenager at JITB has more courage and integrity than the average cop (I mean, in fairness, he DOES have to make those mystery tacos that haven't gone up in price in 40 years).
Firefighters run into a fire, knowing every time there's a chance they won't come out. Cops won't do their job if they have to listen to people saying hurtful things about them, and when they can't take a club to and gas those people (note -- nobody is saying that the cops can't defend themselves against any given protester who commits a violent act against a cop -- throw a brick at a cop, and the cop can take you down. That's not what they're pouting about. They want free-reign to beat the fuck out of people who don't "RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!") Petulant cowards, proving the point every day.

So is the path forward to simply fire all police and then hire a security force that performs the role but with a new name ala Prince?

Brisketexan · July 23, 2020

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If you are referring to capital L libertarians, I totally agree. They are not a serious political party. Gary Johnson was a fucking joke of a candidate, when they needed to put their best foot forward. And perhaps they did.

That being said, I think certain libertarian principles have a place in American governance and especially political dialog. Dogmatism is your enemy, not libertarianism. But it is curious that you hold such a high standard when judging the ineffectiveness of libertarians, but give the long and storied legislative accomplishments of the democratic socialists a pass. And highlighting ineffectiveness in that regard is not intended to take anything away from Bernie for shifting the dialog around universal healthcare, for example. That is an example of precisely why we need voices from the "extremes" arguing from strong ideological positions. They contribute to the dialog and move the squishy people in the middle around. Just like we need folks with libertarian inclinations arguing, back to relevance in this thread, about 1033, militarization of the domestic police state, and funding of our MIC, etc.

Big differences here. Bernie actually holds office. AOC actually holds office. They are literally in positions where there take, even if not completely adopted, can meaningfully contribute to policy conversations.

What are libertarians (yeah, small "l") doing? "Liberty and freedom" are just code words for racism and discrimination. If you hear a candidate saying they are the "liberty and freedom" candidate, run the fuck away. Rand Paul? Come the fuck on -- if he's the "libertarian" voice, then "libertarian" equals "suck Trump's mushroom dick at every opportunity." Amash is it. He's literally all "libertarianism" has, and when you take into account the existential crisis we are in, he's more of a hindrance than a help. For whatever the reason(s), when it comes to being a conduit for ideas of merit that might actually take root, libertarianism is a miserable fucking failure. What you hear from me is contempt, but it comes from disappointment, not disagreement.

Brisketexan · July 23, 2020

9 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Fucking Louie Anderson.

I'll never forgive him for his betrayal of April and Billy.

elfenix · July 23, 2020

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If you are referring to capital L libertarians, I totally agree. They are not a serious political party. Gary Johnson was a fucking joke of a candidate, when they needed to put their best foot forward. And perhaps they did.

That being said, I think certain libertarian principles have a place in American governance and especially political dialog. Dogmatism is your enemy, not libertarianism. But it is curious that you hold such a high standard when judging the ineffectiveness of libertarians, but give the long and storied legislative accomplishments of the democratic socialists a pass. And highlighting ineffectiveness in that regard is not intended to take anything away from Bernie for shifting the dialog around universal healthcare, for example. That is an example of precisely why we need voices from the "extremes" arguing from strong ideological positions. They contribute to the dialog and move the squishy people in the middle around. Just like we need folks with libertarian inclinations arguing, back to relevance in this thread, about 1033, militarization of the domestic police state, and funding of our MIC, etc.

democratic socialists don't seem to be everywhere you look on the internet, while nearly every comment section is littered with people whinging about statists and collectivists from people who got their government degrees from youtube u.

Foosters · July 23, 2020

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Fucking Louie Anderson.

I'll never forgive him for his betrayal of April and Billy.

His performance in "Baskets" taught me forgiveness.

HenryJames · July 23, 2020

46 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Last night the protestors started breaking windows on the 5th and 6th floor of the federal courthouse, apparently with large ball bearings.

RDCanecutter · July 23, 2020

K so I got this genius idea maybe cuz I started drankin wine at 2:30, listen up and lemme know what you think.

So ICE and Border Patrol are sposed to cut down on illegal immigration, right?

So what if we took ALL of ICE, and maybe half of Border Patrol, and put them to work, for a year, as roofers?

They'd totally get all their pay and perks. It'd count towards retirement. Think how many traditional illegal immigrant jobs that would dry up. "No mang, I ain't goin to that yob, ees ICE mang." [/Cheechvoice]

I guess some of you more sadistic types might enjoy the idea of cops frying up there in the hell sun. Honestly, that never occurred to me.

Since the American taxpayer is already paying them, roofs could become a right, like texting while driving.

If we set up some sort of apprenticeship program, after 3 years we should have enough native-born roofers trained up to go fix the roofs the cops worked on.

Anastasis · July 23, 2020

13 minutes ago, elfenix said:

democratic socialists don't seem to be everywhere you look on the internet...

Not sure if serious.

UpperWestside · July 23, 2020

49 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, I think they can and should all have a role. I just see libertarians as the ultimate ineffective fart-sniffers. Which is hugely disappointing, as my beliefs significantly overlap with a lot of libertarian positions. It just turns out that in practical terms, libertarians turn out mostly to be Ron Paul wingnut types, with a shitload of dope-addled brains and racism thrown in for fun (and don't forget the lizard people who control us from underneath the Denver airport). What is Aleppo?

What I'd love is to hear some actual effective, practical libertarians. Amash provides some helpful perspective....but ultimately, the result of his stand will most likely be strengthening Trumpism because he won't get the fuck out of the way and let real, effective opposition do its work.

It's a bunch of "now, now, let's cogitate on Mises" tweed jacket fart-sniffing, and it's fucking maddening.

Amash can get bent and so can the majority of Libertarians. They talk a big game, but do nothing of value to help anyone except themselves when it comes to nut-cuttin' time.

Captainant · July 23, 2020

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Not sure if serious.

Annie, just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a democratic socialist

Brisketexan · July 23, 2020

3 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Amash can get bent and so can the majority of Libertarians. They talk a big game, but do nothing of value to help anyone except themselves when it comes to nut-cuttin' time.

Yep.

I don't give a flying fuck about what you say. The only thing that matters is what you actually accomplish. Modern libertarians have accomplished jack shit outside of becoming experts in the smell of their own farts. Again, it's maddening.

Hugo Stiglitz · July 23, 2020

Like everything else, it comes down to a deficiency of leadership with the libertarians. They aren’t exactly programmed to work collectively either because you know, they’re libertarians.

Mdhorn · July 23, 2020

46 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

IG fired in T-minus......

Are these federal agents wearing gas masks? I was told earlier these were weapons. Why does one side get to wear them and the other doesn't? It's not against the law to wear a gas mask.

Dahobbs · July 23, 2020

35 minutes ago, Nivek said:

So is the path forward to simply fire all police and then hire a security force that performs the role but with a new name ala Prince?

The department formerly known as police.

Mdhorn · July 23, 2020

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yep.

I don't give a flying fuck about what you say. The only thing that matters is what you actually accomplish. Modern libertarians have accomplished jack shit outside of becoming experts in the smell of their own farts. Again, it's maddening.

It appeals to college kids and the both sides folks, except the both sides folks who will then pull the Trump lever while claiming Libertarianism.

Brisketexan · July 23, 2020

6 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Are these federal agents wearing gas masks? I was told earlier these were weapons. Why does one side get to wear them and the other doesn't? It's not against the law to wear a gas mask.

No, see, when a protester carries a shield and a gas mask to protect against violent attack, they are [checks notes] evil marxists bent on destroying America, as evidenced by the fact that they are carrying things that only evil people intent on doing bad things would carry. But when an irregular paramilitary force that's actually deploying weapons of war indiscriminately against civilians carries a shield and a mask, they are heroes, who we should thank.

It's like you didn't even get the memo. Are you not on the America Freedom Eagle Flag Gun mailing list? I thought you were.

Mdhorn · July 23, 2020

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

Last night the protestors started breaking windows on the 5th and 6th floor of the federal courthouse, apparently with large ball bearings. CS gas wafted into the offices and now everyone is working remotely.

And the civil service types are all royally pissed at Trump. I think it's safe to assume they're all voting for Biden. Apparently the Hatch act went out the window with rule of law.

Were they using sling shots? Seems difficult to get much trajectory with force by hand from street level--also, they'd be further away from immediately beneath the building. And protesters are aiming for the buildings rather than their assailants? Maybe some stray rubber bullets or other flying objects being cast by officers made it higher up. Seems like they'd have more force. Doesn't really make much sense--why not blow out the windows on the lower floors? So many questions amid so much bullshit. Apparently, fed agents are afraid for their lives and have to beat unarmed civilians standing there not threatening them. That kind of chicken shit fear shouldn't be keeping the peace.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Mdhorn

burntorangebongos · July 23, 2020

Fuck me, I can't keep up with labels. Dumb question amnesty: Does democratic socialist = progressive????

I thought progressive = liberal???

Mdhorn · July 23, 2020

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, see, when a protester carries a shield and a gas mask to protect against violent attack, they are [checks notes] evil marxists bent on destroying America, as evidenced by the fact that they are carrying things that only evil people intent on doing bad things would carry. But when an irregular paramilitary force that's actually deploying weapons of war indiscriminately against civilians carries a shield and a mask, they are heroes, who we should thank.

It's like you didn't even get the memo. Are you not on the America Freedom Eagle Flag Christian Gun mailing list? I thought you were.

You missed a word in your recruiting message. I'm not currently wearing a flag pin so probably just got overlooked. I'm going to check out the army navy store and see if they carry any illegal gas masks or trash can lids. I hear when you go into combat, a metal lid is pretty high tech because it's lightweight and crumbles easily. Do you think it was an improvised metal lid or IML for people in the know?

Brisketexan · July 23, 2020

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

The department formerly known as police.

Don't you sully Prince's name. As we learned from Chappelle, Prince could ball. The police have no balls.

Chooky · July 23, 2020

Bastropo, imo.

Mdhorn · July 23, 2020

2 minutes ago, burntorangebongos said:

Fuck me, I can't keep up with labels. Dumb question amnesty: Does democratic socialist = progressive????

I thought progressive = liberal???

Socialism is quite broad: moderate=socialist, reasonable=socialist, common sense=socialist, pro-medicine/science=socialist, facts=socialist. And socialist and communist are interchangeable. Now Trump getting his marching orders from Putin is not communist, nor soliciting prostitutes from communists or undermining democracy with hacking from communist countries, and neither is campaign contributions from communist nations. With this handy dandy guide, you can now decipher fake news.

Nivek · July 23, 2020

Don't you sully Prince's name. As we learned from Chappelle, Prince could ball. The police have no balls.

You leave Sting out of this. He showed GREAT courage.

Brisketexan · July 23, 2020

13 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

Socialism is quite broad: moderate=socialist, reasonable=socialist, common sense=socialist, pro-medicine/science=socialist, facts=socialist. And socialist and communist are interchangeable. Now Trump getting his marching orders from Putin is not communist, nor soliciting prostitutes from communists or undermining democracy with hacking from communist countries, and neither is campaign contributions from communist nations. With this handy dandy guide, you can now decipher fake news.

You're really fucking this up. It's so much simpler.

Anyone who is not 100% loyal to Trump and Trumpism = "SOCIALIST!!!!" That's it. That's the entire analysis.

workswithseed · July 23, 2020

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Isn't that last sentence exactly what police should do? If people are protesting then stand back, let them protest, and address only illegal activities when they happen.

Have they been instructed not to address any crimes against people? Just property crimes?

Seriously trying to get a better picture of the whole situation before the feds turned it up past 11.

This and the clashes between antifa and proud boys/Patriot prayer have been happening since Trump's election. It hasn't stopped, and the cops have been told to just wait and get the stragglers.

This is one of the officers talking about some of what's happening. I'm thinking of talking to an officer and go back to the protestors and ask them what they think, and what's going on.

MaybeACoordinator · July 23, 2020

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Another thought I've had -- y'all know how those pussy libtards at [checks notes] the Pentagon and the War College all acknowledged that military action needs to be careful so as to NOT cause unnecessary civilian casualties, because brutalizing civilians is a 100% guaranteed way to radicalize them and turn them against us forever? (Not that we do this worth a shit, but we know it's a thing).

That's exactly what's happening, right now, here in the US. The GOP and their fascist regime isn't just turning people against them -- it is radicalizing them against the GOP/fascists. Ordinary folks -- moms, dads, just regular people -- aren't just going to vote against the GOP. They HATE the GOP. They are willing to risk their lives to protest the regime.

If the GOP wanted to create a massive movement of people who will HATE them for eternity, they couldn't execute a better plan. They are in the process of radicalizing tens of millions of Americans who will dedicate their lives to working against them.

That's why I say they should keep this shit up. They should gas MORE women, and MORE children. Every attack, they create more of us. Every move they make, we win.

I would also submit that the GOP and it fascist regime has managed to radicalize the military against it as well as the people.

Basically its cops + racists versus America right now.

Mrs Whiggins · July 23, 2020

3 hours ago, Nivek said:

So is the path forward to simply fire all police and then hire a security force that performs the role but with a new name ala Prince?

Although you mean the artist, Prince, I believe any security force currently employed in Portland probably already has a Prince on the payroll, namely Erik.

bad_teammate · July 23, 2020

I laughed so hard at the 2:15 close-up when the black cop says "black-owned business" (you can feel the erection the right-wing video editor had when putting that clip together) I had to find the full interview so I could listen to this guy completely. The zooms broke my concentration.

Here's the full 27 minutes...

His harrowing tale of almost being killed starts ~12 minutes in. No real details because he seems to have not actually been injured at all, just scared.

Which, great, I'd be scared too. That sounds like it sucks ass. But when I'm supposed to believe this line about idiots out in violent crowds of thousands... show me some blood. At least tell me about the wounds and injuries and deaths, because I'm just not buying that thousands of people are intent upon violence for two months but have somehow been completely incapable of catching bodies or at least hospital admissions. There's a massive incongruity.

Also, you know... the video we can watch with our eyes.

At 20 he and his cop interviewer are asked about the discrepancy between police accounts of police being beautiful angels and the protesters slavering with Soros-funded murder drools, he doesn't really address it. In typical form, the most critical view of policing you get from the cops themselves is, "There are bad ones and we don't like them" and it always ends there. Always.

JimmyJames · July 23, 2020

4 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Last night the protestors started breaking windows on the 5th and 6th floor of the federal courthouse, apparently with large ball bearings. CS gas wafted into the offices and now everyone is working remotely.

And the civil service types are all royally pissed at Trump. I think it's safe to assume they're all voting for Biden. Apparently the Hatch act went out the window with rule of law.

Says who? The cops? Trump? Mickey Mouse? The civil service types?

JimmyJames · July 23, 2020

The other night bearschlong threw a large ball bearing through my office window. He then farted in my office spreading gas wafting through my office so now everyone is working remotely.

He needs a severe trump private army beat down, in camo. Apparently the hatch act went out the window.

BearSchlong · July 24, 2020

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Says who? The cops? Trump? Mickey Mouse? The civil service types?

My sister works on the 5th floor of that building.

bad_teammate · July 24, 2020

Sounds like it sucks shit to have that job right now. I hope that the federal and local authorities are able to make reforms that please the people of Portland (the people who pay their salaries, ya know) such that the people of Portland no longer feel the need to get beaten and tear gassed by cops to achieve their goals!

RDCanecutter · July 24, 2020

4 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

Were they using sling shots?

I have been told, that if you stretch a bicycle inner tube across an open window, or who knows, between two trees, that you can use it to heave some things pretty impressive distances.

Hugo Stiglitz · July 24, 2020

F250 · July 24, 2020

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I voted for him.....but quickly criticized a shitload of his actions. I admit that I (wrongly) supported action in Iraq, but I also opposed the Patriot Act like a mofo, and I quickly soured on Iraq when I saw what our (non) strategy turned out to be.

I've damned well ALWAYS been an early warning siren on the destruction of the 4th amendment, things like civil asset forfeiture, and the pitfall of qualified immunity.

My positions on things have evolved, for sure. Which I'm proud of -- all I can do is try to do better each day, and to accomplish something each day. And I learned long ago, from a career spent in the world of conflict (it's literally my job), that ideological purity is not just not helpful, it's destructive to accomplishing anything meaningful. There's a reason that 98% of lawsuits SETTLE, as opposed to fight on to total and pure victory or defeat -- because that's how shit gets done in the real world.

Don't conflate ideological purity for basic principles. Principles are for guidance they are not necessarily dogmatic. They create boundaries that should not be compromised. It's easy to be against locking kids in cages but much more difficult to oppose reactionary legislation that will end up locking kids up in cages in the future.

Onboard 2.0 · July 24, 2020

15 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

My sister works on the 5th floor of that building.

Oh no... anecdotal evidence doesn't mean shit around here.

JimmyJames · July 24, 2020

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh no... anecdotal evidence doesn't mean shit around here.

So was it Antifa or not?

JimmyJames · July 24, 2020

19 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

My sister works on the 5th floor of that building.

So riddle me this. Why was the private trump army somehow not able to stop a volley of large ball bearings crashing through the windows along with “CS” gas, whatever that is, wafting through the building?

JimmyJames · July 24, 2020

And in this day of cell phones. Surely there is some video footage of this.

Huckleberry · July 24, 2020

11 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh no... anecdotal evidence doesn't mean shit around here.

lol Onboard found something to respond to on this thread.

Anastasis · July 24, 2020

4 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

Fuck me, I can't keep up with labels. Dumb question amnesty: Does democratic socialist = progressive????

I thought progressive = liberal???

Democratic socialist is a self applied term that Bernie Sanders, AOC and Tlaib use. The latter two are actual DSA members I think. The former is nominally a Democrat but labels himself a democratic socialist. These aren’t my terms, they are the terms they have chosen to represent their own ideology. Brisket brought up AOC so that’s why they came into that portion of the discussion. And yes the DSA has a large online presence. And I’ve never suggested that everybody who disagrees with me is a democratic socialist. That’s pissant nonsense.

bad_teammate · July 24, 2020

I wouldn't find it unbelievable that a few people could do it and have sufficient motivation to do so. This has been going on a long time so organizing and planning has been going on, all the more reason for governments to ensure domestic tranquility by guaranteeing fairness and justice and not allowing an abusive police state to provoke the citizenry into unrest.

JimmyJames · July 24, 2020

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

lol Onboard found something to respond to on this thread.

You should be proud of him. He left his safe space.

Progress.

Huckleberry · July 24, 2020

18 minutes ago, F250 said:

Don't conflate ideological purity for basic principles. Principles are for guidance they are not necessarily dogmatic. They create boundaries that should not be compromised. It's easy to be against locking kids in cages but much more difficult to oppose reactionary legislation that will end up locking kids up in cages in the future.

Yep, basic principles are in rare supply these days. It's pretty easy to say that paramilitary federal soldiers arresting and using chemical agents against citizens whom they have no evidence or even reasonable suspicion of having been involved in a crime is wrong. All the time. Whenever it happens. No matter which "side" the citizens are on.

Well it's pretty easy for some people. I guess it's not so easy for others.

JimmyJames · July 24, 2020

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I wouldn't find it unbelievable that a few people could do it and have sufficient motivation to do so. This has been going on a long time so organizing and planning has been going on, all the more reason for governments to ensure domestic tranquility by guaranteeing fairness and justice and not allowing an abusive police state to provoke the citizenry into unrest.

I don’t find it unbelievable. I would just like to see some semblance of proof. If so, just arrest those fucks and move on.

Instead the Nazi gestapo is moving on from the white race traitors of Portland to the true enemy in Chicago.

Huckleberry · July 24, 2020

3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

I don’t find it unbelievable. I would just like to see some semblance of proof. If so, just arrest those fucks and move on.

Instead the Nazi gestapo is moving on from the white race traitors of Portland to the true enemy in Chicago.

Yep, the people who damaged the building should be arrested and prosecuted. Should probably be noted that if the issue is bearing sized holes in windows then the office space could still be utilized if it wasn't for the tear gas issue.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Huckleberry

BearSchlong · July 24, 2020

11 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

So riddle me this. Why was the private trump army somehow not able to stop a volley of large ball bearings crashing through the windows along with “CS” gas, whatever that is, wafting through the building?

I have no fucking idea, I'm only relaying what local federal employees have been told. The CS gas was used by the feds and apparently it wafted back into the offices. No idea how many windows were broken as my sister is tucked away safely behind a VPN in her enclave of Happy Valley, OR and she hasn't been to the office today.

This place. . .just wow.

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