Chevy 5.3 LM7 engine rebuild.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

I am starting to collect my thoughts on a rebuild of a bone-stock 5.3 LM7 out of a bone-stock Silverado 1500. It's a daily driver. 3.73 rear end. Tow/Haul transmission switch.

I don't care about boosting the HP. The vehicle is used for in-town errands and a fair amount of highway driving between 65mph and 80 mph. I want to bump the gas mileage (currently around 17mpg). I don't want to drop below 280hp, and anything above 320hp means nothing to me if it costs gas mileage. I don't want it to be appreciably louder than it was off the showroom floor.

My mechanical engineering background is about as impressive as my ability to speak Italian. Which is pretty much zero.

What direction should I start when planning this rebuild? Not especially time sensitive, but I need to get started on this project.

I'm guessing port the heads and have a tune applied to the control module. At some point, I expect to have to go over the transmission, so changing the gears in the transmission is in theory an option.

How do I accomplish the objective of my rebuild?

[TwiceHorn 31536]

23 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

I am starting to collect my thoughts on a rebuild of a bone-stock 5.3 LM7 out of a bone-stock Silverado 1500. It's a daily driver. 3.73 rear end. Tow/Haul transmission switch.

I don't care about boosting the HP. The vehicle is used for in-town errands and a fair amount of highway driving between 65mph and 80 mph. I want to bump the gas mileage (currently around 17mpg). I don't want to drop below 280hp, and anything above 320hp means nothing to me if it costs gas mileage. I don't want it to be appreciably louder than it was off the showroom floor.

My mechanical engineering background is about as impressive as my ability to speak Italian. Which is pretty much zero.

What direction should I start when planning this rebuild? Not especially time sensitive, but I need to get started on this project.

I'm guessing port the heads and have a tune applied to the control module. At some point, I expect to have to go over the transmission, so changing the gears in the transmission is in theory an option.

How do I accomplish the objective of my rebuild?

Hmmm.

What's wrong with it currently?  It looks to be at least 10 years old, so some stuff is probably worn.

Usually, one "rebuilds" either to achieve HP targets or when something breaks or wears out that presents the opportunity to replace a lot of parts.

If you just need to replace a worn engine, a rebuilt or crate engine might be more economical than a "rebuild" using your own block.

The two things you mentioned, porting heads and a "tune," are not generally regarded as "rebuilding" tasks, but rather performance enhancements that are done when one is convinced that the block, heads, and rotating/reciprocating gear are in good condition.  Yes, they frequently get done when rebuilding an engine, but they are not rebuilding tasks per se.

Rebuilding usually entails boring the cylinders**, replacing piston rings and/or pistons, possibly connecting rods and caps and the associated bearings; grinding valve seats, replacing valves (this is where porting can come in) and valve gear (springs, lifters, cam), maybe even crankshaft and main bearings.

**because boring cylinders involves a small displacement bump, some consider it a performance mod, but really, it is to recondition the cylinder walls and get a good fit with new piston rings to improve compression.

Edited July 18, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Randolph Duke 4034]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Hmmm.

What's wrong with it currently?  It looks to be at least 10 years old, so some stuff is probably worn.

Usually, one "rebuilds" either to achieve HP targets or when something breaks or wears out that presents the opportunity to replace a lot of parts.

If you just need to replace a worn engine, a rebuilt or crate engine might be more economical than a "rebuild" using your own block.

The two things you mentioned, porting heads and a "tune," are not generally regarded as "rebuilding" tasks, but rather performance enhancements that are done when one is convinced that the block, heads, and rotating/reciprocating gear are in good condition.  Yes, they frequently get done when rebuilding an engine, but they are not rebuilding tasks per se.

Rebuilding usually entails boring the cylinders, replacing piston rings and/or pistons, possibly connecting rods and caps and the associated bearings; grinding valve seats, replacing valves (this is where porting can come in) and valve gear (springs, lifters, cam), maybe even crankshaft and main bearings.

 

I've currently got 256,000 reasons to expect I'm going to have to do something within the next year or so. Sent the oil out to Blackstone about 35k ago and they said to change oil every 3k and don't touch it. That is what I am currently doing. I'm about to send another sample out to see what's going on. It should be ok, but I need to start thinking through some sort of a rebuild, and I would much rather do it planned than as a forced option.

[TwiceHorn 31536]

There are a couple of folks here that maintain fleets of trucks @G650 is one, I think @deadshank is another.

They may have some advice on what to do for longevity.

An unworn or less worn version of the same engine is going to produce better mileage and power, almost automatically, over a version with 1/4 million miles on it.

Again, I am thinking that a rebuilt engine or a crate engine is probably more economical than attempting to rebuild using your block, unless you had a specific project in mind.

These owners tend to think run it into the ground and replace with a crate engine. https://www.silveradosierra.com/vortec-5-3l-v8/high-miles-t712785.html

Plus you probably get a better warranty with a reputable rebuilt or crate engine.  "Rebuilt" and "crate" engine are probably only semantic differences.  By rebuilt, I mean a basically OEM spec remanufactured engine that you basically drop in.  Crate engines vary from that, to more performance-oriented variants.

Edited July 18, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[ROFL BOX 6649]

Keep the oil changes going on a regular schedule, put a filtermag on & keep up with whatever it attracts.

Maintain your radiator fluids & replace accessory components as needed (water pump, alternator, power steering, etc).

That kind of mileage isn't too uncommon for a "modern" vehicle.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Randolph Duke 4034]

1 minute ago, ROFL BOX said:

Keep the oil changes going on a regular schedule, put a filtermag on & keep up with whatever it attracts.

Maintain your radiator fluids & replace accessory components as needed (water pump, alternator, power steering, etc).

That kind of mileage isn't too uncommon for a "modern" vehicle.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

I log my maintenance better than some aircraft. I'm rather aggressive on the maintenance (OEM parts, K&N/Napa filters, regular fluid/ filter change on diffs, transfer case, trans). Did the intake manifold gasket a few months ago. Pretty much everything I can think of. The thing runs fine. Doesn't even go through a qt of oil between oil changes. but I know when I hit 300k the bearings are probably going to go out on me and I want to have my plan in place to deal with that so I am not stuck making a forced decision on what to do.

[TwiceHorn 31536]

1 minute ago, Randolph Duke said:

I log my maintenance better than some aircraft. I'm rather aggressive on the maintenance (OEM parts, K&N/Napa filters, regular fluid/ filter change on diffs, transfer case, trans). Did the intake manifold gasket a few months ago. Pretty much everything I can think of. The thing runs fine. Doesn't even go through a qt of oil between oil changes. but I know when I hit 300k the bearings are probably going to go out on me and I want to have my plan in place to deal with that so I am not stuck making a forced decision on what to do.

Assuming you mean the main bearings, which is probably rather unlikely, actually.  Nonetheless, for a major item that is going to involve pulling the engine, you are going to need to choose to make 1) just that repair 2) some or most of the repairs/replacements constituting a rebuild or 3) drop in a new engine.

Dropping in a new engine is probably the most cost-effective, reliable, and certainly fastest option.

As pointed out on that Silverado thread, your tranny is more likely to blow than your engine.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

12 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Assuming you mean the main bearings, which is probably rather unlikely, actually.  Nonetheless, for a major item that is going to involve pulling the engine, you are going to need to choose to make 1) just that repair 2) some or most of the repairs/replacements constituting a rebuild or 3) drop in a new engine.

Dropping in a new engine is probably the most cost-effective, reliable, and certainly fastest option.

As pointed out on that Silverado thread, your tranny is more likely to blow than your engine.

I pinged 650 and deadshank. I will see what they have to say.

My though is to drop in a new engine (this is the first pushrod V8 I have ever owner and I like it a lot). Maybe porting and a tune after.

My one advantage is I don't have to do anything now, so I will give it some time and see what happens.

Thanks for the advice. I owe you some beers.

[G650 14277]

1 hour ago, Randolph Duke said:

I am starting to collect my thoughts on a rebuild of a bone-stock 5.3 LM7 out of a bone-stock Silverado 1500. It's a daily driver. 3.73 rear end. Tow/Haul transmission switch.

I don't care about boosting the HP. The vehicle is used for in-town errands and a fair amount of highway driving between 65mph and 80 mph. I want to bump the gas mileage (currently around 17mpg). I don't want to drop below 280hp, and anything above 320hp means nothing to me if it costs gas mileage. I don't want it to be appreciably louder than it was off the showroom floor.

My mechanical engineering background is about as impressive as my ability to speak Italian. Which is pretty much zero.

What direction should I start when planning this rebuild? Not especially time sensitive, but I need to get started on this project.

I'm guessing port the heads and have a tune applied to the control module. At some point, I expect to have to go over the transmission, so changing the gears in the transmission is in theory an option.

How do I accomplish the objective of my rebuild?

 

58 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There are a couple of folks here that maintain fleets of trucks @G650 is one, I think @deadshank is another.

They may have some advice on what to do for longevity.

An unworn or less worn version of the same engine is going to produce better mileage and power, almost automatically, over a version with 1/4 million miles on it.

Again, I am thinking that a rebuilt engine or a crate engine is probably more economical than attempting to rebuild using your block, unless you had a specific project in mind.

These owners tend to think run it into the ground and replace with a crate engine. https://www.silveradosierra.com/vortec-5-3l-v8/high-miles-t712785.html

Plus you probably get a better warranty with a reputable rebuilt or crate engine.  "Rebuilt" and "crate" engine are probably only semantic differences.  By rebuilt, I mean a basically OEM spec remanufactured engine that you basically drop in.  Crate engines vary from that, to more performance-oriented variants.

Not only do I maintain a fleet, but I used to build truck motors for bogging, pulling and general mayhem. Plus mechanical engineering was my major.

 

I'll have to get back to this when I have more time to type, but generally the answer is "it depends". A crate motor is definitely the easiest and most efficient way, but it could just be a fun project to do.

[TwiceHorn 31536]

36 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

I pinged 650 and deadshank. I will see what they have to say.

My though is to drop in a new engine (this is the first pushrod V8 I have ever owner and I like it a lot). Maybe porting and a tune after.

My one advantage is I don't have to do anything now, so I will give it some time and see what happens.

Thanks for the advice. I owe you some beers.

Well, if you are interested in porting and a tune, you might be well off to spend a little more money on a better crate engine.

Tunes are a great way to get power and torque, but they are limited by the hardware, both in the sense that they can only do so much if the hardware is limited and often what they do is pretty stressful on the hardware.  Tunes play with various parameters of air/fuel mixture and spark timing, as well as valve lift and timing (if a variable valve engine, which I don't believe the Vortec is). 

Factory tunes are generally pretty optimal for the balance of power, mileage, and stress on engine components, maybe with a priority to mileage and stress over power.  An aftermarket tune usually goes for power while sacrificing mileage and stressing engine components, especially pistons and valves, with heat and combustion stress.

The fundamental way to make an engine more efficient/powerful is to improve it's "breathing," that is, the intake and exhaust of air and fuel and combustion products.  Porting cylinder heads aims to improve breathing, usually more on the intake end.  Headers and low-restriction exhaust are what you do on the exhaust end.  Doing one without the other is less effective.

A better crate engine is going to have ported heads a matched intake manifold (probably), better fuel injection, be built for headers, and have higher quality pistons and rods to take the stress of its higher output and will thus be more "fun" to tune than a stock engine.

[Gil Bang 26022]

yeah, bearings don't really "go out".  They occasionally "spin" because of oil issues.  But that's rare.  Something else will likely fail before the bearings cause trouble.

[Gil Bang 26022]

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/category/GENG.html

[Gil Bang 26022]

https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/19367777.html

[Jerry Callo 8727]

If you'd just like to replace it with an engine with less miles, I'll sell you mine.  It only has 246,000 and comes with a 2004 Suburban wrapped around it.

[Bevo&Pevo 5219]

If you are losing oil pressure and there are no visible oil leaks on the side of the engine, the main bearings have probably lost some tolerance.   Those Gen III LS units are hard to beat.

[Jkwellborn 6744]

If you are losing oil pressure and there are no visible oil leaks on the side of the engine, the main bearings have probably lost some tolerance.   Those Gen III LS units are hard to beat.

Yup yup. You will be better off just getting a crate engine. Put a small turbo on it for shiggles. In reality, a tune will probably help. If that truck still has the factory transmission, it’s on borrowed time.

[G650 14277]

15 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

yeah, bearings don't really "go out".  They occasionally "spin" because of oil issues.  But that's rare.  Something else will likely fail before the bearings cause trouble.

I'd say roughly 90% of bearing failure I've seen are from oil pump failure causing spun bearings.

 

Edit:Actually, I have to qualify this. 99.9999% of bearing failure I see is from idiots not checking the oil.

Edited July 19, 2020 by G650

[Randolph Duke 4034]

I absolutely appreciate all the feedback.

I somewhat had the truck forced on me a few years back. A 2000 Silverado 1500 LS with 185k for $3k. Perfectly fine interior. The previous owner was a lady who used it as a second vehicle, mostly to tow her fishing boat. She spent silly on replacing engine mounts, trans mounts, trans seals, u-joints, alternator, power steering pump, a/c compressor, water pump, parking light sockets (seriously-$150), all within in the previous 18 months, all done by the same local Firestone. Even though she replaced the a/c compressor and clutch, the a/c never really worked, and that matters in Texas. So she decided it was time to trade it in. The dealer offered $3k, she was offended, went away in a huff, and sold it to me that afternoon. For $3k.

The problem with the a/c was easy to diagnose, once I started changing all the filters. In spite of advising the client to spend for such bullshit things as replace parking light socket(s), in the almost 17 years she had the vehicle, no one ever mentioned she needed to occasionally change the cabin air filter. The worst clogged filter I have ever seen of any type in my life. So now I'm $3,015 into this.

New front brake pads (always do if I get a used car, just so I know how much wear I have on my front brakes). While I'm down there, might as well also do new front shocks. No one ever advised her she might want new shocks. Ever. In almost 200,000 miles. They were worthless. The vehicle had no front shocks, for all intents and purposes. So now I'm $3,200 into a truck that is getting into even better shape quite easily. I bought a random orbital polisher from Harbor Freight, spent a little extra for decent pads and good polishes. The polisher, along with an assortment pack of wet/dry sandpaper from Walmart wonderfully cleaned up the oxidation off the plastic lenses. Colinite 845 on the paint. I swear by that stuff. Now the truck runs well and looks pretty good.

Long story short, since spring I've gone over the truck from bumper to bumper doing a HEAVY 250,000 maintenance. Only EOM parts. I learned the OEM parts lesson the hard way. But even that was maybe $1,000 in parts (I now swear by Rockauto. The price differentials between dealer, local auto parts stores and Rockauto stunned me).

The thing runs like a champ (17mpg hwy). But at some point, I need to plan what to do with the engine and trans when they go. Nothing urgent. Until then, oil change every 3,000. Costco for the oil. I'm a believer on spending a few extra for decent filters, so I grab a K&N or NAPA Gold for the engine oil filter. I send an oil sample to Blackstone for $25 every 35k or so (every two years). The info from Blackstone is giving me a better idea how much longer the engine will last.

When I first got my drivers license, my dad gave me a used vehicle and a set a wrenches and laughed as he said "good luck, have fun, and if I were you, I'd buy a Chilton's manual." My curiosity with this truck project is a) is it still possible to give a new driver a used vehicle and a set of wrenches and tell them "good luck, have fun, the videos you're going to need are on youtube" toss them a few dollars, and let them learn the old fashioned way, and b) How much money and how much sweat equity would it take to make it happen? So far, my belief is at least if you get a decent Silverado, it absolutely is possible. I'm about $5k into this ($3k purchase, $2k filters, parts, etc, outside of tires) over the four years I've had it. 65k miles. We're talking $100/mo, and I could probably still dump this truck for my original $3k. Now I have to start factoring in the engine and tranny.

This is the first pushrod V8 I have ever owned, and I know because it is such a popular vehicle there are a ton of options for my engine and transmission situation. I'm just trying to get a handle on future expenditures and if I have to choose any options, tend toward the ones that will allow me to bump fuel economy and stay away from the bells and whistles I would have wasted money on back when I first got my license.

Eventually I am going to tire of this project and some lucky kid willing to forego the glitz of a new truck and who is willing to drive a 25+ yr old one is going to get gifted a rather bulletproof vehicle, but between now and then I'm curious to see just how possible it is to keep the thing on the road and properly maintained.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

I'd say roughly 90% of bearing failure I've seen are from oil pump failure causing spun bearings.

 

Edit:Actually, I have to qualify this. 99.9999% of bearing failure I see is from idiots not checking the oil.

Pffffft....  Oil.... soooooo over rated.....

[Randolph Duke 4034]

1 hour ago, G650 said:

I'd say roughly 90% of bearing failure I've seen are from oil pump failure causing spun bearings.

 

Edit:Actually, I have to qualify this. 99.9999% of bearing failure I see is from idiots not checking the oil.

What is the first sign of an oil pump failure? Will the pump give me warning by noticeably lower output over time (similar to an alternator slowly wearing out and giving warning because the lights are all dimmer) or will it be an "oh shit, I have a problem" situation like when a water pump seal starts leaking all over the ground?

[Jkwellborn 6744]

What is the first sign of an oil pump failure? Will the pump give me warning by noticeably lower output over time (similar to an alternator slowly wearing out and giving warning because the lights are all dimmer) or will it be an "oh shit, I have a problem" situation like when a water pump seal starts leaking all over the ground?

I’ve seen both. You’ll notice less pressure most of the time. Don’t get caught up trying to get great mileage on that thing. It only got 17 or 18 from the factory I think.

Anyone else actually surprised that OP works on vehicles? I’m not gonna lie, I figured you spent all of your time looking stuff up to piss off aggy.

[TwiceHorn 31536]

55 minutes ago, Randolph Duke said:

I absolutely appreciate all the feedback.

I somewhat had the truck forced on me a few years back. A 2000 Silverado 1500 LS with 185k for $3k. Perfectly fine interior. The previous owner was a lady who used it as a second vehicle, mostly to tow her fishing boat. She spent silly on replacing engine mounts, trans mounts, trans seals, u-joints, alternator, power steering pump, a/c compressor, water pump, parking light sockets (seriously-$150), all within in the previous 18 months, all done by the same local Firestone. Even though she replaced the a/c compressor and clutch, the a/c never really worked, and that matters in Texas. So she decided it was time to trade it in. The dealer offered $3k, she was offended, went away in a huff, and sold it to me that afternoon. For $3k.

The problem with the a/c was easy to diagnose, once I started changing all the filters. In spite of advising the client to spend for such bullshit things as replace parking light socket(s), in the almost 17 years she had the vehicle, no one ever mentioned she needed to occasionally change the cabin air filter. The worst clogged filter I have ever seen of any type in my life. So now I'm $3,015 into this.

New front brake pads (always do if I get a used car, just so I know how much wear I have on my front brakes). While I'm down there, might as well also do new front shocks. No one ever advised her she might want new shocks. Ever. In almost 200,000 miles. They were worthless. The vehicle had no front shocks, for all intents and purposes. So now I'm $3,200 into a truck that is getting into even better shape quite easily. I bought a random orbital polisher from Harbor Freight, spent a little extra for decent pads and good polishes. The polisher, along with an assortment pack of wet/dry sandpaper from Walmart wonderfully cleaned up the oxidation off the plastic lenses. Colinite 845 on the paint. I swear by that stuff. Now the truck runs well and looks pretty good.

Long story short, since spring I've gone over the truck from bumper to bumper doing a HEAVY 250,000 maintenance. Only EOM parts. I learned the OEM parts lesson the hard way. But even that was maybe $1,000 in parts (I now swear by Rockauto. The price differentials between dealer, local auto parts stores and Rockauto stunned me).

The thing runs like a champ (17mpg hwy). But at some point, I need to plan what to do with the engine and trans when they go. Nothing urgent. Until then, oil change every 3,000. Costco for the oil. I'm a believer on spending a few extra for decent filters, so I grab a K&N or NAPA Gold for the engine oil filter. I send an oil sample to Blackstone for $25 every 35k or so (every two years). The info from Blackstone is giving me a better idea how much longer the engine will last.

When I first got my drivers license, my dad gave me a used vehicle and a set a wrenches and laughed as he said "good luck, have fun, and if I were you, I'd buy a Chilton's manual." My curiosity with this truck project is a) is it still possible to give a new driver a used vehicle and a set of wrenches and tell them "good luck, have fun, the videos you're going to need are on youtube" toss them a few dollars, and let them learn the old fashioned way, and b) How much money and how much sweat equity would it take to make it happen? So far, my belief is at least if you get a decent Silverado, it absolutely is possible. I'm about $5k into this ($3k purchase, $2k filters, parts, etc, outside of tires) over the four years I've had it. 65k miles. We're talking $100/mo, and I could probably still dump this truck for my original $3k. Now I have to start factoring in the engine and tranny.

This is the first pushrod V8 I have ever owned, and I know because it is such a popular vehicle there are a ton of options for my engine and transmission situation. I'm just trying to get a handle on future expenditures and if I have to choose any options, tend toward the ones that will allow me to bump fuel economy and stay away from the bells and whistles I would have wasted money on back when I first got my license.

Eventually I am going to tire of this project and some lucky kid willing to forego the glitz of a new truck and who is willing to drive a 25+ yr old one is going to get gifted a rather bulletproof vehicle, but between now and then I'm curious to see just how possible it is to keep the thing on the road and properly maintained.

That's awesome about the cabin air filter inasmuch as dealers and every quiklube place under the sun wants to sell you one any time you come in.

Also, pro tip.  The term "pushrod V8" describes probably 99% of V8s ever sold.  It is used to distinguish V8s using pushrods and a single cam in the block from overhead cam (OHC) V8s, which are comparatively rare.

The term is currently used in a mildly derogatory fashion, as in "the Corvette still uses a pushrod V8."

Gearheads know from context whether a V8 is a pushrod (almost all trucks, most American cars) or OHC (racecars, European luxobarges, and supercars ).  Ford has sold an OHC V8 for quite some time, but it is an oddball.

So you can just say "V8."  Pushrod is redundant.

Edited July 19, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Randolph Duke 4034]

41 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's awesome about the cabin air filter inasmuch as dealers and every quiklube place under the sun wants to sell you one any time you come in.

Also, pro tip.  The term "pushrod V8" describes probably 99% of V8s ever sold.  It is used to distinguish V8s using pushrods and a single cam in the block from overhead cam (OHC) V8s, which are comparatively rare.

The term is currently used in a mildly derogatory fashion, as in "the Corvette still uses a pushrod V8."

Gearheads know from context whether a V8 is a pushrod (almost all trucks, most American cars) or OHC (racecars, European luxobarges, and supercars ).  Ford has sold an OHC V8 for quite some time, but it is an oddball.

So you can just say "V8."  Pushrod is redundant.

I specified a pushrod, because I once heard the story of when in the early 90s, GM built two prototypes for their next gen big block engine - a pushrod and a DOHC. GM evidently tested the hell out of both engines and decided the pushrod was just more fun to drive than the DOHC. That basic pushrod design became the LS series. (They were right. My LM7 is a really fun ride. And with ceramic pads, the front brakes on that beast are actually not bad.)

I grew up on SOHC and DOHC cam engines. To me, a pushrod and a DOHC are as different as a manual and an automatic transmission. I'm used to matching trans gears and the final drive with the engine to get the car dialed in for what type of driving one wants to do. I'm trying to apply that approach to this vehicle with the objective to stay within the same performance I'm getting now at +/- 290hp, but by optimizing available options for gas mileage.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[Parliament 14297]

If your oil pressure is low because of wallered out bearings, you can probably switch oil grades and help yourself some.  Other than that, run'er til she pukes, and know that we in the salt belt are envious of folks who own pickups that can go that long.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

I'll post the next Blackstone oil analysis report just in case anyone is curious.

[Jkwellborn 6744]

What did it cost to have that done?

[ROFL BOX 6649]

What did it cost to have that done?

He mentioned $ 25.00 in a prior post.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Jkwellborn 6744]

He mentioned $ 25.00 in a prior post.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Saw that now.

[Gil Bang 26022]

6 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

I absolutely appreciate all the feedback.

I somewhat had the truck forced on me a few years back. A 2000 Silverado 1500 LS with 185k for $3k. Perfectly fine interior. The previous owner was a lady who used it as a second vehicle, mostly to tow her fishing boat. She spent silly on replacing engine mounts, trans mounts, trans seals, u-joints, alternator, power steering pump, a/c compressor, water pump, parking light sockets (seriously-$150), all within in the previous 18 months, all done by the same local Firestone. Even though she replaced the a/c compressor and clutch, the a/c never really worked, and that matters in Texas. So she decided it was time to trade it in. The dealer offered $3k, she was offended, went away in a huff, and sold it to me that afternoon. For $3k.

The problem with the a/c was easy to diagnose, once I started changing all the filters. In spite of advising the client to spend for such bullshit things as replace parking light socket(s), in the almost 17 years she had the vehicle, no one ever mentioned she needed to occasionally change the cabin air filter. The worst clogged filter I have ever seen of any type in my life. So now I'm $3,015 into this.

New front brake pads (always do if I get a used car, just so I know how much wear I have on my front brakes). While I'm down there, might as well also do new front shocks. No one ever advised her she might want new shocks. Ever. In almost 200,000 miles. They were worthless. The vehicle had no front shocks, for all intents and purposes. So now I'm $3,200 into a truck that is getting into even better shape quite easily. I bought a random orbital polisher from Harbor Freight, spent a little extra for decent pads and good polishes. The polisher, along with an assortment pack of wet/dry sandpaper from Walmart wonderfully cleaned up the oxidation off the plastic lenses. Colinite 845 on the paint. I swear by that stuff. Now the truck runs well and looks pretty good.

Long story short, since spring I've gone over the truck from bumper to bumper doing a HEAVY 250,000 maintenance. Only EOM parts. I learned the OEM parts lesson the hard way. But even that was maybe $1,000 in parts (I now swear by Rockauto. The price differentials between dealer, local auto parts stores and Rockauto stunned me).

The thing runs like a champ (17mpg hwy). But at some point, I need to plan what to do with the engine and trans when they go. Nothing urgent. Until then, oil change every 3,000. Costco for the oil. I'm a believer on spending a few extra for decent filters, so I grab a K&N or NAPA Gold for the engine oil filter. I send an oil sample to Blackstone for $25 every 35k or so (every two years). The info from Blackstone is giving me a better idea how much longer the engine will last.

When I first got my drivers license, my dad gave me a used vehicle and a set a wrenches and laughed as he said "good luck, have fun, and if I were you, I'd buy a Chilton's manual." My curiosity with this truck project is a) is it still possible to give a new driver a used vehicle and a set of wrenches and tell them "good luck, have fun, the videos you're going to need are on youtube" toss them a few dollars, and let them learn the old fashioned way, and b) How much money and how much sweat equity would it take to make it happen? So far, my belief is at least if you get a decent Silverado, it absolutely is possible. I'm about $5k into this ($3k purchase, $2k filters, parts, etc, outside of tires) over the four years I've had it. 65k miles. We're talking $100/mo, and I could probably still dump this truck for my original $3k. Now I have to start factoring in the engine and tranny.

This is the first pushrod V8 I have ever owned, and I know because it is such a popular vehicle there are a ton of options for my engine and transmission situation. I'm just trying to get a handle on future expenditures and if I have to choose any options, tend toward the ones that will allow me to bump fuel economy and stay away from the bells and whistles I would have wasted money on back when I first got my license.

Eventually I am going to tire of this project and some lucky kid willing to forego the glitz of a new truck and who is willing to drive a 25+ yr old one is going to get gifted a rather bulletproof vehicle, but between now and then I'm curious to see just how possible it is to keep the thing on the road and properly maintained.

11,000 miles per year is a shitload for a "second vehicle", and it's REALLY a shitload of boat towing.   Unless she lived in Texas and liked to fish the Pacific Ocean every weekend.

[torre 1286]

6 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

What is the first sign of an oil pump failure? Will the pump give me warning by noticeably lower output over time (similar to an alternator slowly wearing out and giving warning because the lights are all dimmer) or will it be an "oh shit, I have a problem" situation like when a water pump seal starts leaking all over the ground?

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Discussion-t11114_ds628022

 

Solid advice in the thread.    

 

I retired your same vehicle (2000 Silv, 5.3) with 316K miles. (second vehicle).    Engine and transmission were fairly solid till the end.  Did develop seal leaks and the low oil pressure at idle described in link above which I chose not to repair.   No oil pump or bearing failure.    Just monitor the oil pressure gauge.

[TwiceHorn 31536]

The other thing worth mentioning is that bearings get oil-starved from clogged galleys and passages.  So high pressure, or a change in pressure can signal oiling problems, as well.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

Here is the report from two years ago (~30k miles). I'm sending a sample out today for analysis.

"Unfortunately, this engine has a coolant leak. Coolant shows up as potassium and sodium, and maybe silicon. Silicon could be dirt getting past the air filter or from a harmless sealer or lube too. Make sure the air filter/intake is okay. Iron tracks with oil use and it's fine on a per-mile basis, but lead (and other wear metals) should stay closer to average regardless, so lead shows some extra bearing wear. Universal averages are based on ~5,600 miles of oil use. The thick viscosity is due to Lucas (harmless). Use just 3,000 miles or less and watch for coolant loss."

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[Randolph Duke 4034]

23 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

What did it cost to have that done?

$30. If you are trying to decide to nurse an older car or bite the bullet and replace, I HIGHLY suggest getting an analysis done.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/about-us/?session-id=5cagui55dromyoyrgovxcr45&timeout=20&bslauth=&urlbase=https%3a%2f%2fwww.blackstone-labs.net%2fBstone%2f(S(5cagui55dromyoyrgovxcr45))%2f

Edited July 20, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[Randolph Duke 4034]

19 hours ago, torre said:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Discussion-t11114_ds628022

 

Solid advice in the thread.    

 

I retired your same vehicle (2000 Silv, 5.3) with 316K miles. (second vehicle).    Engine and transmission were fairly solid till the end.  Did develop seal leaks and the low oil pressure at idle described in link above which I chose not to repair.   No oil pump or bearing failure.    Just monitor the oil pressure gauge.

No seal leaks. I've replaced the rear diff gasket and the transmission pan gasket relying on a HF torque wrench and no leaks from there, either. I've had the wild oil pressure gauge at idle for 50k mil, but no noise from the engine and nothing in the analysis tells me I have some sore of an oil supply problem (we will see what the new analysis says). I'm loath to replace the oil pressure sensor/ screen because of how much access to the damned thing seems to be, but I may just do it some afternoon in the fall, considering I may have some extra time on my hands this fall. I'm pretty sure its a sludge issue that I can get to when I decide to get to it.

My next project will probably be proactive total brake system maintenance. At 250,000 miles, I might as well just go over everything in the brake system so I know I probably won't have to do it again any time in the foreseeable future (probably never again).

To me, doing proactive work on various components that may not quite yet need it, but probably will soon (the aircraft maintenance approach), is far more preferable than dealing with a 20-yr old vehicle that always has at least three things wrong with it and can leave me stranded at a very inconvenient time.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

The second oil sample came back from Blackstone

"The coolant leak is progressing. Both potassium and sodium increased, and wear metals have as well. Aluminum and iron are starting to show poor wear at the pistons and steel parts, like the cam/crankshaft or cylinders. The increased copper and lead show more wear from brass and bronze parts like bushings or bearings. This sample tested positive for water, which is likely from the coolant. The contamination is causing the oil to rapidly oxidize, shown in the high insolubles at 0.9%. Keep oil changes to around 2,000 miles to limit wear until the leak can be fixed. Caution."

[Jkwellborn 6744]

The other thing worth mentioning is that bearings get oil-starved from clogged galleys and passages.  So high pressure, or a change in pressure can signal oiling problems, as well.

I knew a guy that built a hot rod with a high flow pump and factory galley restrictors. Couple of passes down the track and engine go boom.

[fattyflattie 4638]

On 7/19/2020 at 7:39 AM, Randolph Duke said:

(I now swear by Rockauto. The price differentials between dealer, local auto parts stores and Rockauto stunned me).

Sometimes I feel I am keeping them in business.  Pro tip, if you buy enough shit, they will start sending you discounts randomly.  

On 7/19/2020 at 8:08 AM, Jkwellborn said:

Anyone else actually surprised that OP works on vehicles? I’m not gonna lie, I figured you spent all of your time looking stuff up to piss off aggy.

raises hand.

On 7/20/2020 at 10:29 AM, Randolph Duke said:

I'm loath to replace the oil pressure sensor/ screen because of how much access to the damned thing seems to be, but I may just do it some afternoon in the fall, considering I may have some extra time on my hands this fall. I'm pretty sure its a sludge issue that I can get to when I decide to get to it.

This isn't as bad as people claim.  At all.  It's tight, and it's no fun, but people act as if its absolutely inaccessible.  Not the case.

 

Sounds like you might have a headgasket.   Other than that, the 5.3 should loooooooong outlast the 4L60E its attached to.  I've got a 2000 that's still ticking that passed 250k in '08.  If it blows up, give me a shout.  I need a straight bed, and pass door/rocker.   Or dump a modern 6.2 in it.  They are good for several hundred thousand miles as well. 

[G650 14277]

34 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

raises hand.

Guilty as well

[Randolph Duke 4034]

5 hours ago, G650 said:

Guilty as well

$2500 for a stock crate engine (Summit). About $1500 to have it installed. Talked with the sales guy at Summit about my upgrade options. After learning how the fuel pump, injectors, etc, are matched to the engine, I’m leaning away from straying too far away from stock. 

Local shop doing a rebuild-$2300 (plus tax)  drive out. 

Going to drive it until it starts giving me a reason to deal with the engine and I will go from there. I’m thinking of having it rebuilt at the local shop. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Randolph Duke

[Jkwellborn 6744]

Those LS based engines are tough as hell.

[Gil Bang 26022]

$2500 for a stock crate engine (Summit). About $1500 to have it installed. Talked with the sales guy at Summit about my upgrade options. After learning how the fuel pump, injectors, etc, are matched to the engine, I’m leaning away from straying too far away from stock. 
Local shop doing a rebuild-$2300 (plus tax)  drive out. 
Going to drive it until it starts giving me a reason to deal with the engine and I will go from there. I’m thinking of having it rebuilt at the local shop. 

You get what you pay for.

[Jkwellborn 6744]

$2500 for a stock crate engine (Summit). About $1500 to have it installed. Talked with the sales guy at Summit about my upgrade options. After learning how the fuel pump, injectors, etc, are matched to the engine, I’m leaning away from straying too far away from stock. 
Local shop doing a rebuild-$2300 (plus tax)  drive out. 
Going to drive it until it starts giving me a reason to deal with the engine and I will go from there. I’m thinking of having it rebuilt at the local shop. 

You know the computer can take care of whatever mods you do to those things right?

[TwiceHorn 31536]

On 8/7/2020 at 6:20 PM, Randolph Duke said:

$2500 for a stock crate engine (Summit). About $1500 to have it installed. Talked with the sales guy at Summit about my upgrade options. After learning how the fuel pump, injectors, etc, are matched to the engine, I’m leaning away from straying too far away from stock. 

Local shop doing a rebuild-$2300 (plus tax)  drive out. 

Going to drive it until it starts giving me a reason to deal with the engine and I will go from there. I’m thinking of having it rebuilt at the local shop. 

I'm going to guess that that's a long block (maybe even a short block after looking at prices) not a crate engine, although I guess there's some wiggle in the terminology.  A crate engine should have almost all of the things that hang off the block, whereas a long block assumes you BYOB a fair number of parts.  

At any rate, I think you'd want to change out fuel pump and injectors along with the rest of the engine.

And yeah, the engine control unit can be adapted to most variants in electronically controlled things, but that's just another cost. A few items might even be "plug & play."

I'm actually somewhat skeptical that local shop can do it that much cheaper than a reman short or long block.  Makes me wonder what they consider a "rebuild."

But the biggest issue here is the transmission.  

[Gil Bang 26022]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm going to guess that that's a long block (maybe even a short block after looking at prices) not a crate engine, although I guess there's some wiggle in the terminology.  A crate engine should have almost all of the things that hang off the block, whereas a long block assumes you BYOB a fair number of parts.  

At any rate, I think you'd want to change out fuel pump and injectors along with the rest of the engine.

And yeah, the engine control unit can be adapted to most variants in electronically controlled things, but that's just another cost. A few items might even be "plug & play."

I'm actually somewhat skeptical that local shop can do it that much cheaper than a reman short or long block.  Makes me wonder what they consider a "rebuild."

But the biggest issue here is the transmission.  

Long block.

 

Actual Engine Displacement:5.3L/325

Engine Assembly Style:Long block

Assembled:Yes

Intake Manifold Included:No

Cylinder Heads Included:Yes

Carburetor Included:No

Throttle Body Included:No

Distributor Included:No

Oil Pan Included:No

Valve Covers Included:No

Timing Cover Included:No

Water Pump Included:No

Harmonic Balancer Included:No

Flexplate Included:No

Flywheel Included:No

Air Cleaner Included:No

Spark Plugs Included:No

Spark Plug Wires Included:No

Computer Included:No

Wiring Harness Included:No

[SurlyBDR 22843]

$3788 for a GM reman long block that comes with a 3yr/100k mile nationwide warranty, if installed by an ASE certified shop

[ROFL BOX 6649]

I got a Jasper once for my '98 Chebby 3500 (the 'White Whale" that some of you may have met years ago) & there was a fuckup with the cam & distributor gearing (pre-coilpacks).

Jasper wouldn't warranty a replacement block, only the cam & distributor.  Pissed me TF off, nothing I could do about it.

[Gil Bang 26022]

7 hours ago, SurlyBDR said:

$3788 for a GM reman long block that comes with a 3yr/100k mile nationwide warranty, if installed by an ASE certified shop

do they still do the "Target" engines?  I had one of those, many years ago.  It was terrific.

[SurlyBDR 22843]

I had to Google that just to see what it was. Haha... no, that's not a thing anymore. 

[TwiceHorn 31536]

Target Master?  I vaguely remember those.

The TV guide that came in the Sunday paper every week was always full of car part ads, and long and short block sellers.  I seem to remember seeing Target Master (maybe one word) a lot.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

On 8/10/2020 at 8:28 AM, TwiceHorn said:

I'm going to guess that that's a long block (maybe even a short block after looking at prices) not a crate engine, although I guess there's some wiggle in the terminology.  A crate engine should have almost all of the things that hang off the block, whereas a long block assumes you BYOB a fair number of parts.  

At any rate, I think you'd want to change out fuel pump and injectors along with the rest of the engine.

And yeah, the engine control unit can be adapted to most variants in electronically controlled things, but that's just another cost. A few items might even be "plug & play."

I'm actually somewhat skeptical that local shop can do it that much cheaper than a reman short or long block.  Makes me wonder what they consider a "rebuild."

But the biggest issue here is the transmission.  

The fuel pump was already changed out (the gas gauge sensor and the check valve wore out on the original). I will change out injectors when I do the engine. The "crate" engine is from Summit and comes with a 3yr warranty for parts, plus $50/hr labor reimbursement.

PS pump, alternator, A/C compressor, water pump, have all been replaced fairly recently. I'm just going to hang those off the new/ rebuilt block.

New oil pump, pistons, rings, rod bearings, main bearings, camshaft bearings, timing set, upper/ lower gaskets,  camshaft, lifters, freeze plug.

The LM7 is such an easy engine to work on, and they are really common, so I'm leaning toward letting the local shop do the work. Probably staying very close to stock.

Here was the video I needed to start working out the rebuild: