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maninblack
maninblack
Kermit
Kermit

Jeter giving the gift of disease is one of those MLB traditions. 

pops
pops

Am i the only one that feels like clicking on the astros thread is a wormhole to texags?

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54207

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^^^

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Major League Baseball is offering players 162 games’ pay for 154 games if they agree to delay the season by approximately one month, but the Players Association believes the league’s overall proposal is not an improvement on its current situation.

MLB’s proposal does not guarantee the players will be paid for games lost to the COVID-19 pandemic, and also includes an element the players continue to oppose — an expanded postseason in 2021. The union believes the current deal governing the sport effectively guarantees 162 games of pay and service time — a point the league disputes — and wants any new arrangement to include an explicit promise of full pay, or at the least, greater gains in other areas. Its leverage is significant: The players do not have to agree to a revised arrangement for the 2021 season to be played.

The league wants to delay the season for health and economic reasons, believing a later start will give the sport the best chance of playing the greatest number of games in a safer environment for players and fans. The union is still talking to players, according to sources, and has yet to respond to the league’s proposal, which it received on Friday. With spring training scheduled to begin in approximately two weeks, the league wants an answer early this week.

Under the league’s proposal, spring training would start on March 22 and the regular season on April 28, with the postseason extending in the early part of November. The league’s network partners want the World Series to conclude on schedule in late October, but would be willing to consider an extension of about a week, sources said. If no agreement is reached, both spring training and the regular season will open on time, and the season will consist of 162 games.

One complication is that players ramping up their workouts would need to alter their preparation if the season is delayed. Another is the lingering uncertainty over whether the sport will adopt a universal DH, creating issues for the free agencies of Nelson Cruz, Marcell Ozuna and others. MLB is unwilling to agree to a universal DH unless the players agree to expanded playoffs, which they accepted in 2020 as a way to generate more revenue after a shortened 60-game regular season that was played without fans in attendance.

The players fear the inclusion of additional teams in the postseason for the second straight year will reduce club spending by disincentivizing competition. They also think it would cheapen the regular season and result in additional physical wear and tear. The league sees competitive concerns as less of an issue. Most rosters are close to set, and most of the top free agents already are signed.

The union previously rejected the league’s offer of expanded playoffs, which included an increase in the guarantee players would receive from $50 million last season to more than $80 million, the amount they received for postseason play in 2019, the last time parks were fully open to fans. The players did not view the increase as significant, believing they might get a similar amount from the usual share of the gate receipts if fans are back in the stands by October.

Looking ahead, the players also might prefer to use their opposition to expanded playoffs as leverage in larger collective-bargaining discussions. As part of the next CBA, they could seek other measures to enhance competition, including, perhaps, a draft lottery for non-playoff teams and a reverse luxury-tax mechanism that would act as a quasi-floor the way the thresholds at the top act as a quasi-cap. The current agreement expires on Dec. 1.

For now, the talks over delaying the season include another objection from the union that is exacerbated, at least in part, by a problem that often colors discussions between the parties: the players’ distrust of the league.

Under MLB’s proposal, the players believe the powers of commissioner Rob Manfred to suspend or cancel games for health and safety reasons are too broad. The regular season, after a one-month delay, would end 10 days later than its scheduled conclusion, on Oct. 10. The compression of the schedule would force the need for additional doubleheaders and reduce the margin for error, increasing the possibility that games would not be played.

The proposal states that Manfred can suspend or cancel games under the following conditions:

• Government restrictions prevent more than five clubs from staging games in their home ballparks (even without fans in attendance).

• Government restrictions prevent or materially restrict travel by clubs within the United States.

• Manfred determines, after consultation with recognized medical experts and the union, that staging those games poses an unreasonable health and safety risk to players or staff.

• The number of players who are unavailable to perform because of COVID-19 is such that the competitive integrity of the season is undermined.

The league, according to sources, believes its proposal offers players considerably more protection than the March agreement that served as the blueprint for the 2020 season. Players under that agreement received pay and service time only for the actual number of games played — a pro rata arrangement.

The current proposal, by contrast, includes language that would enable players to retain their right to fight for full pay and service under the CBA. But the March agreement was completed at a time of great uncertainty for the sport, and the players yielded power to Manfred to protect their pay and service time.

The league says Manfred did not ultimately abuse that power — the Cardinals, for example, were paid for 60 games after playing only 58 — but the union nonetheless disliked how MLB handled elements of the March agreement and is not interested in granting the commissioner more explicit unilateral powers. And while the league views the current state of the pandemic as worse than it was last July at the start of the 2020 season, the players say they have shown they can play under strict health and safety protocols and are willing to do so again.

A worst-case scenario — say, the season shutting down after one week because of government intervention — almost certainly would result in a massive dispute even under the current deal, with the players likely saying their contracts are guaranteed and the league likely saying they should not be paid in full. The league’s new offer doesn’t remove the players’ right to make that argument, but the players’ essential point remains: They want a deal promising full pay.

The league’s proposal also includes revised health and safety protocols that would include penalties similar to those adopted by the NFL and NBA for players who violate the rules, sources said. But the bigger issues, as usually is the case with these parties, are those that involve economics. Barring a change in the next few days, they remain unlikely to be resolved. And hundreds of players and staff across the league are waiting for an answer.

 

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Brew

Brew 3049

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

And f the MLBPA

I’m on this team with this one. Delay the season a month and let’s try and get the most games in we can with people in seats and back out locally. I could give a shit about the DH in the NL or expanded playoffs at this point, I want the opportunity to use my normal season tickets as much as possible. If that means a months delay and 7 inning DH’s, I’m good with it.

MLB is the only one of the big sports that is now going into year 2 of lost local revenue. 

Edited by Brew
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Brew

Brew 3049

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Posted
2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

What point are you trying to make with this?

That the owners have a legitimate reason to try and delay the season a month while still paying the players a full season. It increases the likelihood of fewer missed games and more butts in seats potentially.

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shadow_operative2.0

shadow_operative2.0 15947

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Most of you won’t bother, but Passan has a long piece up about Drew Robinson, former Ranger prospect, briefly Cardinal, trying to kill himself. E60 also has an hour-long show on ESPN+ about it, will watch that later tonight. 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30800732/san-francisco-giants-outfielder-drew-robinson-remarkable-second-act

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54207

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41 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

It seems to me that the MLBPA is more interested in making a stand in anticipation of next year’s CBA battle than doing what’s best for this season. 

You're awfully gotdam naïve if you think they're the only party not doing what's best for this season.

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Tribe171

Tribe171 10

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8 hours ago, Brew said:

I’m on this team with this one. Delay the season a month and let’s try and get the most games in we can with people in seats and back out locally. I could give a shit about the DH in the NL or expanded playoffs at this point, I want the opportunity to use my normal season tickets as much as possible. If that means a months delay and 7 inning DH’s, I’m good with it.

MLB is the only one of the big sports that is now going into year 2 of lost local revenue. 

I would be on board with the shortened season plan if it did not include expanded playoffs. A 14 team playoff makes a 162 game season redundant. MLB season will turn into the NBA season, where no one cares about results because any team with talent automatically makes the playoffs. 

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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

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That the owners have a legitimate reason to try and delay the season a month while still paying the players a full season. It increases the likelihood of fewer missed games and more butts in seats potentially.

How does more games per week, and in turn fewer off days for make-up games, decrease the likelihood of missing games?
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DanRydell

DanRydell 799

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I’m on this team with this one. Delay the season a month and let’s try and get the most games in we can with people in seats and back out locally. I could give a shit about the DH in the NL or expanded playoffs at this point, I want the opportunity to use my normal season tickets as much as possible. If that means a months delay and 7 inning DH’s, I’m good with it.
MLB is the only one of the big sports that is now going into year 2 of lost local revenue. 

Delaying the season a month isn’t a necessarily bad idea but that was a proposal that should have been made months ago, not two weeks before spring training starts.
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Brew

Brew 3049

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11 minutes ago, DanRydell said:


Delaying the season a month isn’t a necessarily bad idea but that was a proposal that should have been made months ago, not two weeks before spring training starts.

From what I have read, it was discussed for the last several months but the MLBPA wanted a complete proposal to discuss.

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Brew

Brew 3049

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27 minutes ago, DanRydell said:


How does more games per week, and in turn fewer off days for make-up games, decrease the likelihood of missing games?

Gives more time for vaccination counts to increase, infection rates to decrease, etc which should lead to fewer canceled games and hopefully more people in seats.

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Brew

Brew 3049

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11 minutes ago, Scraps said:
13 minutes ago, Brew said:
Gives more time for vaccination counts to increase, infection rates to decrease, etc which should lead to fewer canceled games and hopefully more people in seats.

Yeah thats a cool theory and all

Hence the word should.

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pops

pops 6980

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9 hours ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

Most of you won’t bother, but Passan has a long piece up about Drew Robinson, former Ranger prospect, briefly Cardinal, trying to kill himself. E60 also has an hour-long show on ESPN+ about it, will watch that later tonight. 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30800732/san-francisco-giants-outfielder-drew-robinson-remarkable-second-act

Just came to post this. Absolutely unreal. And I know this is surly, but fuck... you never know what is going on in someone's head. Even if it looks like they have everything... just be nice to people. It isn't hard and you never know if you might make a difference. 

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Helobious

Helobious 9450

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10 hours ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

Most of you won’t bother, but Passan has a long piece up about Drew Robinson, former Ranger prospect, briefly Cardinal, trying to kill himself. E60 also has an hour-long show on ESPN+ about it, will watch that later tonight. 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30800732/san-francisco-giants-outfielder-drew-robinson-remarkable-second-act

I remember hearing about that. Fucking nuts he survived shooting himself in the head, and he can still speak/think.

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C-Man

C-Man 27185

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2 hours ago, pops said:

Just came to post this. Absolutely unreal. And I know this is surly, but fuck... you never know what is going on in someone's head. Even if it looks like they have everything... just be nice to people. It isn't hard and you never know if you might make a difference. 

Read that this afternoon and was bawling like a baby in my home office. Unreal.

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Shoxthemonkey

Shoxthemonkey 1977

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8 hours ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

I watched the E60. Most of you are too cool to waste an hour on a dude trying to kill himself, but that sucks for you. 

Watch it. 

I haven't seen the show but I read the article. You are absolutely correct. Well worth the time it takes to read it.

BTW, our current rec choices suck. I want to thank you for your post but all I can do is like it. I don't do "hook'em" because I'm not a Texas alum or fan. I have noting against UT.

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DonkeyCigars

DonkeyCigars 144

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11 hours ago, Helobious said:

I remember hearing about that. Fucking nuts he survived shooting himself in the head, and he can still speak/think.

I read his eyeball exploded in his head from the bullet and he waited 20 hours before calling the medics! He brushed his teeth bleeding out of the side of his head preparing to go to the hospital.

Miracle of miracles.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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1 hour ago, shadow_operative2.0 said:

Talk about addition by subtraction. 

 

 

what's crazy is that the Cubs never recovered from the departure of Fowler. he led the MLB in pitches per plate appearance in 2016, and he was the key cog who set up the rest of our lineup for success. after he left we never replaced him, and i can honestly say that it's been the biggest reason that we went from WS champions to longer being serious contenders overnight. our lineup has been missing a lead off hitter/professional hitters since Dex left, and for me that's been the difference in the Cubs being "good" and being actual contenders. 

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