Sean Hannity

[Dutchrudder 11115]

I wish my bank had told me about the "buy 25 years, get 15 free" when I got my mortgage...

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

We go out of our way in this country to punish people for being poor. It's sad.

Well yeah.  It's not difficult to not be poor here. 

[Brisketexan 104561]

Well yeah.  It's not difficult to not be poor here. 

Fantastic. Do tell.

[Pods 7526]

 

[safe sex 11678]

Well yeah.  It's not difficult to not be poor here. 

This might be the dumbest thing posted on the board today.

[Buzzrock 14870]

Fantastic. Do tell.

Have you tried not being poor?

[Degenerate Gardner 4081]

1 minute ago, Buzzrock said:

 

Have you tried not being poor?

 

I haven't not tried it.  Not that you're asking me.

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Fantastic. Do tell.

It was laid out on the other thread, where BT called everyone he disagreed with racists (the same BT asking if Irish are even considered people upthread).  

But the gist was finish high school (at a min), don't do drugs or abuse alcohol, don't get pregnant before you can afford kids, and don't be lazy.  If you can sneak in a CC associates even better  

I work with a shitload of "hands" that I'm surprised finished high school. Most didn't even follow the drugs, alcohol, pregnant doctrine laid out above. But they aren't lazy. They work 5 to 6, 10-12's a week and we start them at $27/hr. That's not poor.  A good chunk are veterans. Anyone is entitled to be lazy, I guess it is easy to be poor then.  And before we even get to the male/female thing, we have multiple six figure "safety managers" that are high school or associates degree wonders with OSHA 30 and a few other simple quals on the resume. 

[David Dennison 18652]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

It was laid out on the other thread, where BT called everyone he disagreed with racists (the same BT asking if Irish are even considered people upthread).  

But the gist was finish high school (at a min), don't do drugs or abuse alcohol, don't get pregnant before you can afford kids, and don't be lazy.  If you can sneak in a CC associates even better  

I work with a shitload of "hands" that I'm surprised finished high school. Most didn't even follow the drugs, alcohol, pregnant doctrine laid out above. But they aren't lazy. They work 5 to 6, 10-12's a week and we start them at $27/hr. That's not poor.  A good chunk are veterans. Anyone is entitled to be lazy, I guess it is easy to be poor then.  And before we even get to the male/female thing, we have multiple six figure "safety managers" that are high school or associates degree wonders with OSHA 30 and a few other simple quals on the resume. 

You can do all the right things and still be poor in this country. The number one predictor of success in the United States is the income of your parents.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 4/23/2018 at 8:11 AM, atomheartbevo said:

And a lot of people agreed with O’Reilly when he claimed that what he did privately wasn’t anybody’s business. 

In the span of a month, Fox News has been sued over the Seth Rich stuff that Hannity was pumping out, and now Hannity could find himself being in trouble for using Fox News to profit, or to at least cover up his dealings. 

A fucking bog jumper (seriously, all of Hannity’s grandparents were born in Ireland) making the company look really bad, especially if the Seth Rich stuff gets really ugly in court, and if the SEC investigates, is not going to go over well with the Murdochs. 

Bog Trotter or Shanty Irish are the preferred terms -- Signed, A Descendent of "West Brit" Anglo Irish

[fattyflattie 4636]

11 hours ago, David Dennison said:

You can do all the right things and still be poor in this country. The number one predictor of success in the United States is the income of your parents.

There are apartments full of kids  that are routed to the same school as my neighborhood. Same teachers. Same bus. Same textbooks.  The fact one rides to school in a luxury car and the other can’t, doesn’t have an affect on the education they receive, or are offered.   

Your statistic may be right, but I’d wage it has to to with many factors.  People have lazy parents, too. But, even with no drive or want to establish a household, all they have to do is move near a nice school, and the primary education of their children is taken care of. I pay more in fucking school taxes than my nanny pays for her years rent - her kid sits alongside mine at a highly regarded school  

Now if they are too lazy or stupid to do that, just bad luck I guess. All it takes is a modicum of give a shit.  NO ONE is forcing anyone into drugs, alcohol, pregnancy, or laziness. 

[wildcat09 29228]

40 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

There are apartments full of kids  that are routed to the same school as my neighborhood. Same teachers. Same bus. Same textbooks.  The fact one rides to school in a luxury car and the other can’t, doesn’t have an affect on the education they receive, or are offered.   

 Your statistic may be right, but I’d wage it has to to with many factors.  People have lazy parents, too. But, even with no drive or want to establish a household, all they have to do is move near a nice school, and the primary education of their children is taken care of. I pay more in fucking school taxes than my nanny pays for her years rent - her kid sits alongside mine at a highly regarded school  

 Now if they are too lazy or stupid to do that, just bad luck I guess. All it takes is a modicum of give a shit.  NO ONE is forcing anyone into drugs, alcohol, pregnancy, or laziness. 

[Born to Run 6565]

51 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

There are apartments full of kids  that are routed to the same school as my neighborhood. Same teachers. Same bus. Same textbooks.  The fact one rides to school in a luxury car and the other can’t, doesn’t have an affect on the education they receive, or are offered.   

Your statistic may be right, but I’d wage it has to to with many factors.  People have lazy parents, too. But, even with no drive or want to establish a household, all they have to do is move near a nice school, and the primary education of their children is taken care of. I pay more in fucking school taxes than my nanny pays for her years rent - her kid sits alongside mine at a highly regarded school  

Now if they are too lazy or stupid to do that, just bad luck I guess. All it takes is a modicum of give a shit.  NO ONE is forcing anyone into drugs, alcohol, pregnancy, or laziness. 

You really believe this equals the playing field? Forget for a minute that housing in better districts is often not affordable.

Do you really think most public schools alone are enough? That’s cute.

My son is in a great school district and does well because he’s had every advantage. Better pre schools.  Extra assignments and tutoring because I can afford to take off work and help him. He is in GT and advanced classes.  At some point he will likely need a math tutor and private lessons for band.

A lot of people can’t afford those advantages of time and money. 

 

 

[TornACL 7675]

The problem with this stupid fucking argument going on in this page is that it is neither "easy" to not be poor nor is it "impossible" to get out of poverty.

Just because some people can carve out a good living doesn't mean we should stop seeking ways to give everyone in this country a better opportunity. This is the Land of Opportunity after all. And no, cynics, an opportunity is not a handout.

I did particularly enjoy the suggestion that poor folks just need to go move near a good school to get their kids a good education. Are you suggesting we subsidize affordable housing construction in your upper middle class neighborhood?

[sidis 9732]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

There are apartments full of kids  that are routed to the same school as my neighborhood. Same teachers. Same bus. Same textbooks.  The fact one rides to school in a luxury car and the other can’t, doesn’t have an affect on the education they receive, or are offered.   

Your statistic may be right, but I’d wage it has to to with many factors.  People have lazy parents, too. But, even with no drive or want to establish a household, all they have to do is move near a nice school, and the primary education of their children is taken care of. I pay more in fucking school taxes than my nanny pays for her years rent - her kid sits alongside mine at a highly regarded school  

Now if they are too lazy or stupid to do that, just bad luck I guess. All it takes is a modicum of give a shit.  NO ONE is forcing anyone into drugs, alcohol, pregnancy, or laziness. 

no one can possibly be this much of a simpleton.  no one.

[wildcat09 29228]

Just now, sidis said:

no one can possibly be this much of a simpleton.  no one.

Hell, he's probably about average. That's what's terrifying.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 minutes ago, sidis said:

no one can possibly be this much of a simpleton.  no one.

No.  He's right.  Every poor person in his entire metro area should move into his nanny's apartments.  Neighborhoods with failing schools should be completely empty.  Those apartments will miraculously remain affordable even as they add 100s of 1000s more residents under the fatty plan.

[David Dennison 18652]

15 minutes ago, TornACL said:

The problem with this stupid fucking argument going on in this page is that it is neither "easy" to not be poor nor is it "impossible" to get out of poverty.

Just because some people can carve out a good living doesn't mean we should stop seeking ways to give everyone in this country a better opportunity. This is the Land of Opportunity after all. And no, cynics, an opportunity is not a handout.

I did particularly enjoy the suggestion that poor folks just need to go move near a good school to get their kids a good education. Are you suggesting we subsidize affordable housing construction in your upper middle class neighborhood?

NOT IN MY BACKYARD!!!

[fattyflattie 4636]

Born to Run, 

I do think public schools are “enough” - to not be poor.  I would guess the vast majority of posters on this site were public school kids, and next to none are “poor”.  I think your kid succeeds because you put in effort into him/her   Same as I do with mine  Same as most people who care enough to guide their kids in the right direction   

Simpleton, average, whatever the fuck. That furthers my point. I went to shitty public schools, and less than impressive college, and have been able to carve out a decent life.  I’ll never live in River Oaks but fully funded retirement, 529s for 3 kids, decent vehicles, nice house, boats, etc   - middle class.   Buncha real smart motherfuckers in here though, y’all get all the answers but still can’t seem to fix the problem. 

And you’re goddamn right I didn’t want those fucking apartments around. I work my ass off to live as far away from that shit as I can. 

Fondren, you seem intelligent. I don’t know why you diminish it with completely outlandish bullshit responses.  

[David Dennison 18652]

1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Born to Run, 

I do think public schools are “enough” - to not be poor.  I would guess the vast majority of posters on this site were public school kids, and next to none are “poor”.  I think your kid succeeds because you put in effort into him/her   Same as I do with mine  Same as most people who care enough to guide their kids in the right direction   

Simpleton, average, whatever the fuck. That furthers my point. I went to shitty public schools, and less than impressive college, and have been able to carve out a decent life.  I’ll never live in River Oaks but fully funded retirement, 529s for 3 kids, decent vehicles, nice house, boats, etc   - middle class.   Buncha real smart motherfuckers in here though, y’all get all the answers but still can’t seem to fix the problem. 

And you’re goddamn right I didn’t want those fucking apartments around. I work my ass off to live as far away from that shit as I can. 

Fondren, you seem intelligent. I don’t know why you diminish it with completely outlandish bullshit responses.  

Just out of curiosity, what did your parents do for a living?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

6 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Born to Run, 

I do think public schools are “enough” - to not be poor.  I would guess the vast majority of posters on this site were public school kids, and next to none are “poor”.  I think your kid succeeds because you put in effort into him/her   Same as I do with mine  Same as most people who care enough to guide their kids in the right direction   

Simpleton, average, whatever the fuck. That furthers my point. I went to shitty public schools, and less than impressive college, and have been able to carve out a decent life.  I’ll never live in River Oaks but fully funded retirement, 529s for 3 kids, decent vehicles, nice house, boats, etc   - middle class.   Buncha real smart motherfuckers in here though, y’all get all the answers but still can’t seem to fix the problem. 

And you’re goddamn right I didn’t want those fucking apartments around. I work my ass off to live as far away from that shit as I can. 

Fondren, you seem intelligent. I don’t know why you diminish it with completely outlandish bullshit responses.  

The vast majority of posters on this site are UT graduates.  Of course most here aren't "poor."  You are experiencing selection bias.  If this was a lottery winner board filled with nothing but lottery winners, you'd think it was easy to win the lottery.  It isn't.

You also miss the fact that poor non-strivers make it easier for you.  If everyone tried as hard as they could, some of those people are still going to have to dig ditches and mop the floor.  Everyone simply can't be rich or successful.  Capitalism doesn't allow it.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't give everyone the ability to strive if they choose to.  Right now, we don't.  Public schools should be "enough" but they aren't.  And they aren't for the same reason that your nanny has to move into an apartment complex in your school zone in order to provide an education for her kids.  If some of that school tax money you claim to pay went to schools that were failing, she wouldn't need to.  And to be sure, the complex she lives in much less affordable than one in a bad school district simply because you built a wall around your education funding.  If you fixed that bad district instead of adding expensive landscaping to yours, everyone would be better off.

[fattyflattie 4636]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Just out of curiosity, what did your parents do for a living?

Mother is dentist. First in family to go to college. Dad did drafting and put her thru school. He did not attend college.  He learned enough to not be completely replaced by ACAD, did civil consult type work once hand drafting went Dodo. Mom never owned own practice, so it was “good” job but we had less $$ than a lot of the dual earning families in the Petrochem plants that surrounded my town.  It was enough money to live in the shitty house she where she was born, in Clute, TX (not a rich, or even middle class town, we celebrated a mesquito ffs)  To be fair it was also enough for them to save properly (like a lot of their generation did not) so even with Dad getting sick, they will be able to take care of themselves. Mom is 64 and still works.   That should be enough to form your next opinion of my “simpleton” views. 

[David Dennison 18652]

4 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Mother is dentist. First in family to go to college. Dad did drafting and put her thru school. He did not attend college.  He learned enough to not be completely replaced by ACAD, did civil consult type work once hand drafting went Dodo. Mom never owned own practice, so it was “good” job but we had less $$ than a lot of the dual earning families in the Petrochem plants that surrounded my town.  It was enough money to live in the shitty house she where she was born, in Clute, TX (not a rich, or even middle class town, we celebrated a mesquito ffs)  To be fair it was also enough for them to save properly (like a lot of their generation did not) so even with Dad getting sick, they will be able to take care of themselves. Mom is 64 and still works.   That should be enough to form your next opinion of my “simpleton” views. 

See? You were born with advantages that most poor people simply do not have. You were born smack dab in the middle class.

[fattyflattie 4636]

Fondren, I don’t disagree with a single thing you said, except the nice landscaping bit.  There will always be poor people  My only point is that there will also be trailer parks full of white trash watching Jerry springer all day, too.  And they are choosing to be poor  

My school is rated high, but is by far the oldest and most outdated of the 3 within 4-5 miles of it.  Had I lived one street over in my hood, I would have gotten the fancy new schools. I was only just coming into my better wage earning years at the time, and would have been risky to swing that. Would be OK now, but who knew at the time.  

Ftr our nanny made many of the mistakes i originally outlined. When her husband left, shit got real for her. So she hustles now, and is doing better (and she makes a mint watching all my kids) But the drinking/preggo/lazy from her late teens/20’s has held her back. If she keeps what she’s doing now, she could make a decent life. 

[fattyflattie 4636]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

See? You were born with advantages that most poor people simply do not have. You were born smack dab in the middle class.

Lower middle class, yeah probably. I got to live next to a lot of people that were “poor” though, so I do understand it some. 

These were made up of the entire gambit. Lazys who watched tv and drank and smoked dope all day, to visitors from the south who worked their ass off but obv didn’t make much (or sent most of it home). 

Also, ftr, not a Hannity fan.  Never could stand the tough guy, mma, ex hockey player shit he pulled. Dude is sleazy af and I’m sure this will not end well for him  

 

[Born to Run 6565]

That’s part of the overall point.  People that grow up poor have no margin of error and every disadvantage. Get pregnant, make a mistake, date the wrong guy, run with the wrong crowd and your life is essentially over.

You may be able to claw your way out,  and there are plenty of success stories, but many failures due to misfortune despite hard work.. Every minor setback is magnified. I grew up lower middle class surrounded by poverty and it sucked.  And the poorer the family the more likely the kids dropped out, ended up in jail etc regardless of race.

If I got in a mess I could borrow some money from family, get law advice from several lawyers, or consult a CPA for free.

And it’s telling that you want the poors as far away as possible.  (I live in west Austin so I cannot throw stones.) Because poverty brings even good people down.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

7 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Fondren, I don’t disagree with a single thing you said, except the nice landscaping bit.  There will always be poor people  My only point is that there will also be trailer parks full of white trash watching Jerry springer all day, too.  And they are choosing to be poor  

My school is rated high, but is by far the oldest and most outdated of the 3 within 4-5 miles of it.  Had I lived one street over in my hood, I would have gotten the fancy new schools. I was only just coming into my better wage earning years at the time, and would have been risky to swing that. Would be OK now, but who knew at the time.  

Ftr our nanny made many of the mistakes i originally outlined. When her husband left, shit got real for her. So she hustles now, and is doing better (and she makes a mint watching all my kids) But the drinking/preggo/lazy from her late teens/20’s has held her back. If she keeps what she’s doing now, she could make a decent life. 

But it would be impossible for your nanny to succeed if everyone was trying to do so.  She succeeds because she is able to differentiate herself from the "Jerry Springer watchers."  The underlying question is whether we should just let the Jerry Springer watchers die or whether we should give them the means to have basic sustenance.  Around that trailer park, there are one or two strivers who own stores which rely on EBT sales.  There are landlords who rely on Section 8 payments.  And then there's Jerry himself who has made a mint off those trailer park eyeballs.  And there's also the fact that those people aren't just going to starve.  They're going to rob that store to eat, and they're going to rob you, and you'll be subsidizing them more expensively in prison where your paying for their "welfare" provides little to no return to the community.

[Brisketexan 104561]

Do you know why people watch Jerry Springer?  Because they're stupid.  They are not very intelligent.

You know how you correct that?

You don't.

50% of Americans are of below-median intelligence.  Telling the not-bright to "be smart and do smart stuff" would be like telling my slow ass to "run faster, and win the marathon!"  I can't do it.  No matter how much you tell me how to do it, my old, bum-knee, slow, fatass, ain't winning any marathon.

Jerry Springer watchers aren't going to be doctors and such.  Shit, many of them aren't sharp enough to hold down any real office job, or job that requires critical thought.  And blue collar jobs are drying up (yes, they're out there, but not like they were in the manufacturing boom years).

Add to that how precarious the situation is for someone on the edge of poverty (get arrested, get sick, have your car break down, and it ALL falls apart -- you lose your job, your place to live, everything), and it's really fucking easy to be poor.  It's actually somewhat hard to "not be poor."  I'm not making any excuses for anyone -- I'm simply observing the reality on the ground.  Sure, folks from the most wretched places end up being rich....but the ODDS are way against them.

Give me 100 kids from families that earn $100k plus, and pit them against 100 kids from families that earn under $40k.  Which GROUP will be the most successful?  Same schools, same city, etc. -- which one are you betting on?  Odds matter.  Chances matter.  Advantages matter.  They all figure in to your success.  In most cases, they figure in quite significantly.

But, it's much easier to pretend that you had no advantages, and tell other folks to "get off their lazy asses and work for your success like I did."  That's just fucking asinine.  I am quite successful.  Some of it is do to innate ability (I was born pretty smart - which is good, because if I was counting on my athletic ability to get me out of the hood, I'd have been fucked).  A good bit of it is due to hard work -- wherever I found myself, I worked hard (eventually -- when I was a young school kid, not so much, I coasted on being smart).  But a CRAPLOAD of it is due to the fact that I had a middle class family, good nutrition, attentive parents, who sacrificed to send me to private schools, were voracious readers and instilled a love of reading in me, etc. etc. for about 1,000 more qualities.  In short, the family I was born into was by far the BIGGEST factor in my success.  Pure, dumb luck.

My mother's half sister was a worthless junkie.  She had a daughter with some other junkie.  We helped her with the kid for a while, till we pushed her to put her daughter into the foster care and adoption system.  She was adopted at age 6, and grew up in a good, strong family with dedicated parents.  That change in circumstance took her from a dysfunctional kid, to a thriving one and then successful adulthood.  Family unit matters -- it's the biggest determinant of success, across the board.  So, what you're REALLY telling a shitload of people is "choose to be born into a better family."  Like I said, asinine.

[Sawbonz 27398]

And you can throw all the money you want at it and not fix that. We have rehashed it across 3 boards now. You need a social safety net. Call it riot insurance if you’re cynical, but we need it. You have to make it bare bones enough not to be a disincentive for *most* people to work. There will always be scammers and freeloaders working the system

I grew up what would be considered poor in this country but not in abject poverty. For all the valid criticisms of our system we don’t have much of that outside of those with mental illness and or substance abuse issues (and of course their children—that is the truly heartbreaking part of this issue and I don’t know how you fix it)  

I did not have parents who could send me to private schools. We tried the live in an apartment zoned to the “good” school, and that’s when I learned we were poor. Thrift store clothes don’t go over well with the “rich” kids. Wound up graduating from the “worst” high school, but we had plenty of high achievers, kids who wanted out and wanted more. Being really smart helped, but I had classmates not as smart but who busted their asses and are now highly successful.  I wonder if I had more shit just given to me if I would have made it this far  

I do think though if we are going to run up crazy deficits we ought to blow some of it on poor people

 

Edited April 25, 2018 by Sawbonz

[SKJ 1305]

15 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

It was laid out on the other thread, where BT called everyone he disagreed with racists (the same BT asking if Irish are even considered people upthread).  

But the gist was finish high school (at a min), don't do drugs or abuse alcohol, don't get pregnant before you can afford kids, and don't be lazy.  If you can sneak in a CC associates even better  

I work with a shitload of "hands" that I'm surprised finished high school. Most didn't even follow the drugs, alcohol, pregnant doctrine laid out above. But they aren't lazy. They work 5 to 6, 10-12's a week and we start them at $27/hr. That's not poor.  A good chunk are veterans. Anyone is entitled to be lazy, I guess it is easy to be poor then.  And before we even get to the male/female thing, we have multiple six figure "safety managers" that are high school or associates degree wonders with OSHA 30 and a few other simple quals on the resume. 

I'm ready for that job.

 

Where you at

[SKJ 1305]

Hook me up with that gig

[DixonHur 11171]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

50% of Americans are of below-median intelligence

Ok, this literally made me laugh out loud.  Thanks Brisket, I needed it.

[Sawbonz 27398]

Think of how stupid the average American is. Then realize half of them are dumber than that / George Carlin

[Brisketexan 104561]

6 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Ok, this literally made me laugh out loud.  Thanks Brisket, I needed it.

Well, I THINK I used the term correctly here.  Correct?  IQ is based on median score - half of folks score below that median score, half score above it (and, as I understand, IQ tests try to set it so that a score of 100 reflects the true median -- it's adjusted over time, as (hard to believe) we are getting smarter).

[DixonHur 11171]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, I THINK I used the term correctly here.  Correct?  IQ is based on median score - half of folks score below that median score, half score above it (and, as I understand, IQ tests try to set it so that a score of 100 reflects the true median -- it's adjusted over time, as (hard to believe) we are getting smarter).

You absolutely used it correctly, it just struck me as funny because the literal definition of median for anything is that 50% are above, and 50% below.

I wasn't saying it to be a smart ass, it just made me laugh when I read it...and after a tough battle in the market today, it was just the levity I needed.

[High Plains Drifter 10971]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, I THINK I used the term correctly here.  Correct?  IQ is based on median score - half of folks score below that median score, half score above it (and, as I understand, IQ tests try to set it so that a score of 100 reflects the true median -- it's adjusted over time, as (hard to believe) we are getting smarter).

 

You were correct before in your use of median, George Carlin was incorrect in use of the term average.

Not sure if IQ tests are set so that a score of 100 reflects the median or the average (mean).

I wouldn't say we are getting "smarter", meaning that absolute values of IQ are rising, but we are getting better educated (also hard to believe).

[FondrenRoad 4378]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, I THINK I used the term correctly here.  Correct?  IQ is based on median score - half of folks score below that median score, half score above it (and, as I understand, IQ tests try to set it so that a score of 100 reflects the true median -- it's adjusted over time, as (hard to believe) we are getting smarter).

The IQ spectrum may very well be becoming more polarized just like the political, educational, income, and religious spectrums are.  

Edited April 25, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

We’re more compartmentalized in our education and less well rounded, I’d say.

[GSU&UT 1798]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We’re more compartmentalized in our education and less well rounded, I’d say.

I think that goes without saying to anyone who actually pays attention.

[yaqdum 182]

6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We’re more compartmentalized in our education and less well rounded, I’d say.

that's particularly interesting what you say.  i totally agree, of course, and offer myself as a counterexample in the service of core-robber rating evidence.

the major part of my adult life, my career, if that's what it was, was in the pursuit of design.  not as a direct employee, but as a contractor hired to do specific work.  i had opportunities a couple times to leave the road and take work as a direct employee with the job title design engineer, but i liked being footloose.

almost always the job description for the assignment i took was design engineer and the project was almost always a fixed wing aircraft of some sort.  once i did a fair amount of design work on the tail section and cargo-ramp-and-door of the v-22 tilt rotor and later did some minor modification work on military helicopters.  attempted once to break into automotive work doing mainly body parts and the instrument panels for a star-crossed trash truck project.  but all the rest was aerospace vehicles from business jets to airliners and military planes to mod projects on the structure of the suits we use for spacewalking.  i worked alongside degreed engineers doing the exact same things they were doing, but my degree was in english.  (hey, can i help it if english and engineering have the same abbreviation?  i ask you now.)

okay, okay.  i spelled it out: E N G L I S H, and it cost me jobs a number of times, i'm sure.  but i hope to face my folks in the afterlife if there is one, and my dad would kick my ass from heaven to hell and back, or vice versa, if he caught me lying.  just on the safe side i try hard to stay out of that.

anyway, i say all this stuff to try to give the picture.  the projects i worked on were some of the most major aircraft of the generation.  top business jets and airliners and a plane that keeps our fleets safe from our president's closest allies.  names like cessna and gulfstream.  boeing and airbus.  the old grumman company.  sometimes structure work.  sometimes flight control or environmental control (think air conditioning, wing de-icing, cabin air pressure, for starters).  sometimes working alongside some of the best design people in the nation.  some knew my degree was in english and i needed more help than most, but lots of people i worked with had no idea that i wasn't brought along the same or similar as them.  truth was i had almost no hours in engineering of any sort.

so why am i saying all this?  because this is exactly the counterpoint to the truth you stated, hugo.  as a group we are highly compartmentalized in education and experience.  i was famously not.  i've studied all kinds of subjects and done lots of different stuff.  and for that reason, largely, i usually rose quickly in whatever new place i was working to doing some of the most difficult and challenging work they were doing.  in general design, i mean.  in fact, i normally set a mental counter when i went somewhere new.  if in x-amount of time i hadn't been spotted and a process of tasking-in-accordance hadn't begun, i set my tack to exit the place.  the very fact that i had never experienced the classroom conditioning and workplace mentoring that aerospace is famous for gave me one hell of an advantage in many situations.  every job i had was a new world for me, and i had to quickly begin my assimilation all over again.  coming in fresh and largely unseasoned meant every possible solution was fair game to me and i didn't have much in the way of assumptions.  contractors have encapsulated wisdom in the form of sayings to pass to the new generations.  one of my favorites of the sayings says, if it's stupid, but it works, it isn't stupid.

i made a life of breaking molds, and it served me well.  the educational and mentoring process was a harness that didn't fit me.

[NoRagrets 1125]

Can we get back to learning about the sleazy dealings of hannity?

[SideSlip 35]

2 hours ago, yaqdum said:

that's particularly interesting what you say.  i totally agree, of course, and offer myself as a counterexample in the service of core-robber rating evidence.

the major part of my adult life, my career, if that's what it was, was in the pursuit of design.  not as a direct employee, but as a contractor hired to do specific work.  i had opportunities a couple times to leave the road and take work as a direct employee with the job title design engineer, but i liked being footloose.

almost always the job description for the assignment i took was design engineer and the project was almost always a fixed wing aircraft of some sort.  once i did a fair amount of design work on the tail section and cargo-ramp-and-door of the v-22 tilt rotor and later did some minor modification work on military helicopters.  attempted once to break into automotive work doing mainly body parts and the instrument panels for a star-crossed trash truck project.  but all the rest was aerospace vehicles from business jets to airliners and military planes to mod projects on the structure of the suits we use for spacewalking.  i worked alongside degreed engineers doing the exact same things they were doing, but my degree was in english.  (hey, can i help it if english and engineering have the same abbreviation?  i ask you now.)

okay, okay.  i spelled it out: E N G L I S H, and it cost me jobs a number of times, i'm sure.  but i hope to face my folks in the afterlife if there is one, and my dad would kick my ass from heaven to hell and back, or vice versa, if he caught me lying.  just on the safe side i try hard to stay out of that.

anyway, i say all this stuff to try to give the picture.  the projects i worked on were some of the most major aircraft of the generation.  top business jets and airliners and a plane that keeps our fleets safe from our president's closest allies.  names like cessna and gulfstream.  boeing and airbus.  the old grumman company.  sometimes structure work.  sometimes flight control or environmental control (think air conditioning, wing de-icing, cabin air pressure, for starters).  sometimes working alongside some of the best design people in the nation.  some knew my degree was in english and i needed more help than most, but lots of people i worked with had no idea that i wasn't brought along the same or similar as them.  truth was i had almost no hours in engineering of any sort.

so why am i saying all this?  because this is exactly the counterpoint to the truth you stated, hugo.  as a group we are highly compartmentalized in education and experience.  i was famously not.  i've studied all kinds of subjects and done lots of different stuff.  and for that reason, largely, i usually rose quickly in whatever new place i was working to doing some of the most difficult and challenging work they were doing.  in general design, i mean.  in fact, i normally set a mental counter when i went somewhere new.  if in x-amount of time i hadn't been spotted and a process of tasking-in-accordance hadn't begun, i set my tack to exit the place.  the very fact that i had never experienced the classroom conditioning and workplace mentoring that aerospace is famous for gave me one hell of an advantage in many situations.  every job i had was a new world for me, and i had to quickly begin my assimilation all over again.  coming in fresh and largely unseasoned meant every possible solution was fair game to me and i didn't have much in the way of assumptions.  contractors have encapsulated wisdom in the form of sayings to pass to the new generations.  one of my favorites of the sayings says, if it's stupid, but it works, it isn't stupid.

i made a life of breaking molds, and it served me well.  the educational and mentoring process was a harness that didn't fit me.

So, how much would it cost for you to design a system where it’s not 50 degrees in the passenger cabin and 98 in the cockpit?  Bonus points for providing cockpit indication of temp in the back...  Thanks for figuring out how to turn several hundred degree bleed air into 38 degree cabin air through an air cycle machine, but how about letting us know what the result is?

[yaqdum 182]

17 minutes ago, SideSlip said:

So, how much would it cost for you to design a system where it’s not 50 degrees in the passenger cabin and 98 in the cockpit?  Bonus points for providing cockpit indication of temp in the back...  Thanks for figuring out how to turn several hundred degree bleed air into 38 degree cabin air through an air cycle machine, but how about letting us know what the result is?

i never worked as a systems engineer.  i designed parts and assys.

[RPM 26216]

This is just like a Hannity show. This thread has completely deflected off the topic and focused on some bullshit monkey poo flinging session.

 

Well played.

[bolverk 29397]

1 hour ago, SideSlip said:

So, how much would it cost for you to design a system where it’s not 50 degrees in the passenger cabin and 98 in the cockpit?  Bonus points for providing cockpit indication of temp in the back...  Thanks for figuring out how to turn several hundred degree bleed air into 38 degree cabin air through an air cycle machine, but how about letting us know what the result is?

For starters, you could crack open a window I imagine. Yes, I understand that might be difficult at 35,000 feet, but hear me out. I was a French major and am really good at thinking outside the box.

[SKJ 1305]

Can we just all agree hannity is a bitch and a hack?

[Jive Turkey 12568]

20 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Give me 100 kids from families that earn $100k plus, and pit them against 100 kids from families that earn under $40k.  Which GROUP will be the most successful?  Same schools, same city, etc. -- which one are you betting on?  Odds matter.  Chances matter.  Advantages matter.  They all figure in to your success.  In most cases, they figure in quite significantly.

 

I’ll take that bet. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Jive Turkey

[Anastasis 23393]

4 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

I’ll take that bet. 



It's not a terrible bet, if you get the right odds. Income level is important, but not the sole factor in economic mobility.  Among low income families, regional variations are important determinants of outcomes. There has been some work out of Harvard that demonstrates that the regional factor with the strongest association with economic mobility is the percentage of single parent households in your region. Racial segregation, school graduation rates, and community involvement are also important factors. If you want to break the cycle of poverty, one of the best things that you can do for your children is find an apartment complex in a location where there are relatively more dual parent family units and better schools. There are studies that have examined the impact of voucher programs to assist with housing costs.  Take a kid out of the milieu of a high poverty area, and put them in a relatively lower poverty neighborhood with better regional factors previously mentioned, and they kids have measurably better outcomes including both income and propensity to become single parents. But they have to get out of that environment before high school age. After high school age, the move is actually counterproductive. As brisket points out, family unit is THE factor. Hold everything other than income level equal, and those low income kids have a puncher's chance.  Of course, in reality all of regional factors, income, family unit, parental educational attainment, etc are all interrelated.   

[Mojo Hand 4580]

 It's not a terrible bet, if you get the right odds.

 

That pic means it would be a dollar bet, so odds wouldn't matter so much. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It's not a terrible bet, if you get the right odds. Income level is important, but not the sole factor in economic mobility.  Among low income families, regional variations are important determinants of outcomes. There has been some work out of Harvard that demonstrates that the regional factor with the strongest association with economic mobility is the percentage of single parent households in your region. Racial segregation, school graduation rates, and community involvement are also important factors. If you want to break the cycle of poverty, one of the best things that you can do for your children is find an apartment complex in a location where there are relatively more dual parent family units and better schools. There are studies that have examined the impact of voucher programs to assist with housing costs.  Take a kid out of the milieu of a high poverty area, and put them in a relatively lower poverty neighborhood with better regional factors previously mentioned, and they kids have measurably better outcomes including both income and propensity to become single parents. But they have to get out of that environment before high school age. After high school age, the move is actually counterproductive. As brisket points out, family unit is THE factor. Hold everything other than income level equal, and those low income kids have a puncher's chance.  Of course, in reality all of regional factors, income, family unit, parental educational attainment, etc are all interrelated.   

 

Also pulling kids out of shit schools where other kids peer pressure kids that want to be smart into thinking that an education is a bad thing, paying attention or doing your work makes you less cool. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by JimmyHoffa