The WNBA is BACK!!!!!

[UpperWestside 6,104]

On 8/20/2023 at 10:38 PM, Deej said:

Wait...some of you watch this garbage?

I am not a fan of WNBA basketball, but to disparage it seems to be on the decidedly not cool side. I know people who watch more high school football in Texas than should be humanly possible, but it’s what they enjoy watching. To people here where I live it comes across as crazy that people are that passionate about teenagers playing a sport. I still try to watch my high school when they have their broadcast on YouTube so I see the enjoyment you can get from the sport. The WNBA has a small fanbase and that’s fine. It gives hope to a lot of young girls that want to look to be a professional athlete one day. Anything that is positive in nature such as the WNBA is cool by me. 
 

Now OU football on the other hand, well, that can just be bombed back to the Stone Age. Nobody should be subjected to the war crime that is that team.

[Deej 76,511]

I understand, but how many young girls are posting on this site. 

[UpperWestside 6,104]

37 minutes ago, Deej said:

I understand, but how many young girls are posting on this site. 

Well one would hope none. It’s just more the sentiment I think. I ran across someone earlier this week that wants to go see the Liberty play. I told her it would probably be an enjoyable experience. I will probably go at some point just to have attended at least one game. I enjoy watching how we all interact with each other and when you get to see the pure joy a child has when they are watching someone they look up to play ball or act on Broadway or any of that stuff it seems worth experiencing. I mean I definitely would not be there for the below the rim play. I can usually count on the Knicks for that.

[Deej 76,511]

Again, as Bill Burr pointed out, if women and girls even cared, the WNBA would be a huge success. But they don't. 

[YGIFS 19,449]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

I understand, but how many young girls are posting on this site. 

Check your PM's from Pilot's Error

[UpperWestside 6,104]

2 hours ago, Deej said:

Again, as Bill Burr pointed out, if women and girls even cared, the WNBA would be a huge success. But they don't. 

To be honest here I probably would not want a man’s perspective when it comes to the interest, or lack thereof, in a women’s professional sport. I like Bill Burr though and find him to be really funny. I try to remember that they are still less than 30 years into things. The NBA, which is now a worldwide product with the sport being the 2nd most popular in the world, had finals games on tape delay as recently as 1980. They were about 35 years in at that point and had a very niche following when it came to sports in America.

I will say that I was surprised to read that viewership is up 21 percent this year and the attendance figures, while they pale in comparison to the NBA, were around 6600 per game. Expanding to 40 game schedules seem to have helped. That is some significant growth for them. If they could ever completely stand on their own two feet without any assistance from the NBA then I would probably say they would then be a league worth taking seriously. The hardest obstacle they have is that when people want to see basketball they are going to watch the NBA first because of the incredible athleticism. There is not much the WNBA can do about that discrepancy. Again I am not a fan of the league, but I just try to be mindful that they do have a loyal fan base and that in general they do good in the communities they are in, which is cool.

[ChickenSandwich 9,797]

Try to remeber it’s a business to play professional basketball, not a charity. 
 

The IRS would consider it a hobby at this point for losing money 25 years straight. 
 

They should have way more focus on trying to attract paying customers than seeking pity for their 6 figure salaries. 

[UpperWestside 6,104]

21 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Try to remeber it’s a business to play professional basketball, not a charity. 
 

The IRS would consider it a hobby at this point for losing money 25 years straight. 
 

They should have way more focus on trying to attract paying customers than seeking pity for their 6 figure salaries. 

I think it has been commendable that the NBA has done so much to ensure the growth of the women’s game over the last 25 years. Seeing people like Wade now investing in the Chicago Sky is a positive step. My guess is that financially they will have a degree of independence within the next three years. The NBA still owns half of the league and honestly the financial investment for them to keep the league afloat has been couch change overall. If it really were a dire detriment to the NBA they would have pulled the plug a long time ago.

 

I looked at a brief overview and of their financials and they look like they are on solid footing. Again what is good for them seems like a drop in the bucket in comparison to other pro sports leagues in the US. I would say that they should look at expanding the footprint by four teams. Getting players to stop playing overseas is easier now that the Russian oligarch tap has been turned off. That league was basically a competition between billionaire Russians that was never meant to turn a profit. A longer season along with more sponsors seems to be helping them as well. I am all for them succeeding in the short and long-term. Giving women another outlet to become pro athletes is good for society as a whole. Right now the best bet has been soccer and tennis and rightfully so. I just don’t have a dismissive attitude towards women’s sports. I believe they are important as a whole. Europe has made wholesale investments in their women’s football programs and they are bearing fruit in the results and financially as well. I see no reason that there will not be positive growth in the WNBA as the league now positions itself as the best place for women to earn a living playing the sport. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by UpperWestside

[Knoxtnhorn 5,928]

On 9/15/2023 at 9:43 PM, UpperWestside said:

To be honest here I probably would not want a man’s perspective when it comes to the interest, or lack thereof, in a women’s professional sport.  

Well, you might when the entire league is subsidized by men.  There aren't a hell of a lot of sports that are able to lose money 25 years straight w/o some sort of help.

[UpperWestside 6,104]

1 hour ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Well, you might when the entire league is subsidized by men.  There aren't a hell of a lot of sports that are able to lose money 25 years straight w/o some sort of help.

The most powerful governor in the league is a woman and she’s solidly behind the WNBA. Again the lack of understanding that the NBA is fine with this makes very little sense. They see the long-term growth of the WNBA and now the money is starting to come in. We too often in our society judge things on how things operated in the past or in our own experience. The NBA took a different route here with women’s basketball.
 

The NBA as a whole, governors and players alike, are supporters of the league and should be applauded for the investment they made in getting things to where they currently are which has been a doubling within four years of league revenue from 102 million in 2019 to almost 200 million this season. That sounds like chump change for NBA teams with the contracts they hand out, but this is a significant amount of money for a 12 team league (144 players I believe) coming out of a worldwide pandemic. I think it’s awesome that women have this avenue in the professional sports world. Good on the NBA for their support as well as those who are now investing their money in the product. 

[ChickenSandwich 9,797]

14 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Well, you might when the entire league is subsidized by men.  There aren't a hell of a lot of sports that are able to lose money 25 years straight w/o some sort of help.

And the only people watching

Silver:

”“It’s interesting: Women’s basketball is largely supported — just in terms of the demographics — by older men, for whatever reason, who like fundamental basketball, and it’s something I’ve talked a lot to the players about,” he said. “We’re not connecting with almost the same demographic that our players are. I’m always saying our players are roughly, let’s say, 21 to 34, in that age range. I’m saying [to the players], ‘Why do you think it is that we’re not getting your peers to want to watch women’s basketball?’”

[ChickenSandwich 9,797]

Maybe just don’t go to the club one night and give that money to us lol

 

[Pam Cummings 9,553]

I legit never think about the WNBA but some of yall are really obsessed with trashing it. It's one of those things where like yeah obviously were gonna make fun of them tripping around and playing bad. Yeah were gonna bag on Griner. But like why would you be mad about it's very existence? "I cant BELIEVE the NBA subsidizes this!!!!!!!" Calm down, old man. The NBA loses what, $10m a year on this? I think they'll be OK. A guy like James Harden is a much bigger insult to the game. He gets paid to literally do nothing. But where are the crocodile tears for those dollars wasted?

Edited September 19, 2023 by Pam Cummings

[UpperWestside 6,104]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:15 AM, Pam Cummings said:

I legit never think about the WNBA but some of yall are really obsessed with trashing it. It's one of those things where like yeah obviously were gonna make fun of them tripping around and playing bad. Yeah were gonna bag on Griner. But like why would you be mad about it's very existence? "I cant BELIEVE the NBA subsidizes this!!!!!!!" Calm down, old man. The NBA loses what, $10m a year on this? I think they'll be OK. A guy like James Harden is a much bigger insult to the game. He gets paid to literally do nothing. But where are the crocodile tears for those dollars wasted?

I also do not give much thought to the WNBA. I vaguely keep up with it, but hope that it is successful. The trashing of the league that I read from men on here and elsewhere is really something. I hope that none of them do not have daughters that aspire to be pro athletes. The negativity that is posted is just unfortunate.

[Braff Zacklin 13,399]

2 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

I hope that none of them do not have daughters that aspire to be pro athletes. The negativity that is posted is just unfortunate.

Do you have a daughter? Does she aspire to competing in the LPGA or the WTA or some other pro league with a proven track record of success? Godspeed and good luck. There are millions to be made for those with the right stuff.

Or does she hope to be a professional in a sport that lacks a fanbase and, therefore, a solid foundation for existence? If so, maybe it would be wise and supportive of you as a father figure to steer her elsewhere.

The WNBA is a glorified charity case. If someone objects to it, maybe it's because they don't find it entertaining, which is a matter of taste, or maybe it's because they don't find the business model to be reasonable, which is based in objective fact. Odds are, their objection is not born of misogynistic hate as you seem to want to believe.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Braff Zacklin

[blacklab 11,841]

One of my female coworkers played Div I basketball and played pro ball in Europe.

She can't stand watching the WNBA but loves watching the NBA. 

Is she "trashing the league" because she can't stand watching it?

Does she get a free pass or do you consider her a self loathing misogynist? 

Do you also hope she doesn't have a daughter?

[ztejas 43,244]

I like how I come here and it's:

* Pam Cummings awful take *

* Dipshit I have on ignore *

* Dipshit I have on ignore *

@blacklab sort of curious about the whole ordeal 

 

If you love basketball you will find a spot in your heart for the WNBA. @blacklab I'm not sure that you love basketball like that.

I do - I really enjoy watching the game whenever it's exhibited at a high level. A pretty good high school game in Austin can completely steal my attention.

If you are someone that only watches ball when it's March Madness or the NBA Finals - yeah - you are going to have zero interest in the WNBA. You can definitely leave this thread alone. 

[UpperWestside 6,104]

16 hours ago, blacklab said:

One of my female coworkers played Div I basketball and played pro ball in Europe.

She can't stand watching the WNBA but loves watching the NBA. 

Is she "trashing the league" because she can't stand watching it?

Does she get a free pass or do you consider her a self loathing misogynist? 

Do you also hope she doesn't have a daughter?

I have stayed pretty clearly here that I do not watch much of the WNBA, but it does not mean I do not support their existence and growth because it is both good for young girls  who have a dream of playing professionally at the highest level of the sport as well as being good for society overall.

 

What your friend does she does of her own accord. Nobody gets to tell her how to think. To your question of if she has a daughter, as well as anyone else who has a daughter that perhaps has a dream of being a professional basketball player, I would say that passing on unwarranted vitriol and misogyny in some cases are unhelpful to the future of the sport. If you have nothing good to say it’s best to just say nothing and keep your thoughts to yourself in some situations. 
 

I look at this through the lens of people that trash other sports they do not like nor understand. I have said this before that people here where I live think people in Texas are crazy in the devotion they put into high school football. I personally enjoy the sport still from a distance (I try to watch Lampasas when I can. Perhaps tonight when they play Wimberley) and can appreciate why people like seeing it do well. The head coach of the largest high school in the state is from Lampasas, (And was a coach in Lampasas his first year out of Angelo State, which was my freshman year of HS) which I think is pretty cool. 
 

That’s a long way to say I find the negativity surrounding the WNBA to be excessive and to serve no purpose other than to make someone feel good about their own limited point of view. Would I rather watch the NBA? 100 times out of a 100. Does it mean I am going to go out of my way to be negative towards women that are competing at the peak of their sport? I will not and again I am glad the NBA and their players are so supportive of the league. It’s great to now see it at a point where turning a profit is finally within their grasp.

[ChickenSandwich 9,797]

No one is trying to take away their opportunity. Your lens on any cristisim directed their way is clear. 
 

They are entitled to /deserve every dollar they can earn.   They are also incredibly privileged to make 6 figures for a buisness that loses millions of dollars every season.
 

People have the right to not support their campaign for more money based on arguments of “fairness” instead of the buisness reality of the league they play in. This has nothing to do with the auto response of “mysogoney” or “hate.”  Women ignore the WNBA at a higher rate than men. 
 

They should be doing everything they can to grow the sport and court half the population to watch them instead of real houswives.  
 

Instead we have ambassadors like Lisa Leslie telling Lebron and D Green they should not go to the casino or club and instead give the extra money to WNBA players. 
 

The victimhood is exhausting

[Pam Cummings 9,553]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:31 PM, UpperWestside said:

I have stayed pretty clearly here that I do not watch much of the WNBA, but it does not mean I do not support their existence and growth because it is both good for young girls  who have a dream of playing professionally at the highest level of the sport as well as being good for society overall.

 

What your friend does she does of her own accord. Nobody gets to tell her how to think. To your question of if she has a daughter, as well as anyone else who has a daughter that perhaps has a dream of being a professional basketball player, I would say that passing on unwarranted vitriol and misogyny in some cases are unhelpful to the future of the sport. If you have nothing good to say it’s best to just say nothing and keep your thoughts to yourself in some situations. 
 

I look at this through the lens of people that trash other sports they do not like nor understand. I have said this before that people here where I live think people in Texas are crazy in the devotion they put into high school football. I personally enjoy the sport still from a distance (I try to watch Lampasas when I can. Perhaps tonight when they play Wimberley) and can appreciate why people like seeing it do well. The head coach of the largest high school in the state is from Lampasas, (And was a coach in Lampasas his first year out of Angelo State, which was my freshman year of HS) which I think is pretty cool. 
 

That’s a long way to say I find the negativity surrounding the WNBA to be excessive and to serve no purpose other than to make someone feel good about their own limited point of view. Would I rather watch the NBA? 100 times out of a 100. Does it mean I am going to go out of my way to be negative towards women that are competing at the peak of their sport? I will not and again I am glad the NBA and their players are so supportive of the league. It’s great to now see it at a point where turning a profit is finally within their grasp.

Some people feel like they gotta blow out someone else's candle in order for their own to burn brighter.

[d2o 1,602]

To each his own.   I LOVE the NBA and I LOVE the W.   Not sure why some feel the need to down the women's game.   Its different but I thoroughly enjoy the games.   The talent level is visibly better from yr to yr with more younger players coming up who have been playing at higher levels earlier.   There are some real ballers in the W and I like that the NBA players represent and show up for them.   

Agree with what was said earlier.   The league is still in its early state at 30 yrs old.   The NBA was not anywhere near where it is now at that age and there was even talk of the league going under at that time so expecting the W to be a money making machine right now are not reasonable.    Sports teams are investments just like houses.   They cost you money every yr but over the long term the value increases.

If you dont enjoy the game, cool.   Why bash it?   It doesnt effect you in any way if you dont watch it.

Edited September 27, 2023 by d2o

[UpperWestside 6,104]

When I see the WNBA what I see is a much, much higher level of skill and talent than what I would’ve seen just 10 years ago. A’ja Wilson is a player that probably would’ve put up 30 a game with her skill level had she played in the WNBA when it first started. They push tempo better, shoot from deep better and are more athletic across the board. That’s a fun product to me that is growing.
 

I think it’s cool seeing women have this opportunity and I hope the money catches up. I think the cap for a player is 235k. That’s a great living by most standards. The salary floor is 62k though. I assume that as revenue continues to grow that the floor will probably be around 100k within the next 5 years. To get the best of the best to not play in Europe in the off-season is going to need to see the league double their revenue again within the next four years. These women realize they have a limited window to make this money and Europe provides them the opportunity to double their salary. I know the WNBA discourages playing over there, but how do you tell someone not take a few hundred thousand playing basketball while traveling through Europe? The only feasible way seems continued growth domestically. I am pulling for them to keep doing better.

[ATXbronco 4,060]

If Hammon wins her second straight WNBA championship as a coach, she's got to be under serious consideration to be the next Spurs coach after Pop retires.

If he ever retires.

[ztejas 43,244]

17 minutes ago, ATXbronco said:

If Hammon wins her second straight WNBA championship as a coach, she's got to be under serious consideration to be the next Spurs coach after Pop retires.

If he ever retires.

She's good but their team is pretty stacked. 

I wouldn't be against giving her a shot with the Spurs. I worry about NBA players listening to a female HC.

[d2o 1,602]

On 10/1/2023 at 7:49 PM, ztejas said:

She's good but their team is pretty stacked. 

I wouldn't be against giving her a shot with the Spurs. I worry about NBA players listening to a female HC.

She's been gone a couple yrs but she has plenty of respect in the Spurs org.  If she was given the job I dont think most players would have a problem listening to her.  Especially if Pop gives her his blessing which I'm positive he would do.   He's been an incredible advocate for her and women in coaching in general.

[d2o 1,602]

 

Seems weird to only add one team to a 12 team league but progress.

[d2o 1,602]

This matchup was pretty much set before the season started but its really good that both were able to keep their ends of the bargain.    Should be an epic finals

[ztejas 43,244]

8 hours ago, d2o said:

This matchup was pretty much set before the season started but its really good that both were able to keep their ends of the bargain.    Should be an epic finals

Yeah I'm going to try and tune in for at least a couple games. 

[Pimphand 5,587]

You want a thread started by Uncle Boobs to be a safe space?

[UpperWestside 6,104]

On 10/6/2023 at 12:45 PM, d2o said:

This matchup was pretty much set before the season started but its really good that both were able to keep their ends of the bargain.    Should be an epic finals

There’s a writer on a website I subscribe to called Defector that covers the WNBA really well. I know she’s really pumped about this matchup. This should be a really entertaining finals. So much talent on the floor for both squads. I guess this is kinda how it must have been back in the 60’s to watch an NBA Finals game when the league had just 8 teams and they’d have multiple HOF’s on each team.

[d2o 1,602]

Aces came out smoking last night.    They got a little too hyped close to the end of the first half and the Liberty closed the gap.   They regrouped at halftime and blasted the Liberty.   Stewie getting shut down is really surprising. In the MVP matchup Aja is really showing her up.   Crazy she was 3rd in voting anyway after having a better season than last yr and her team setting the reg season win record.  

[ztejas 43,244]

Aja is the best player in the league. Her finishing 3rd in MVP was a joke, granted their team is stacked.

Stew is really good and she was deserving for MVP but you're right that it's very Hakeem/DRob / Jordan/Barkley etc.

Crazy that they lost Candace and are still whipping everyone's ass.

[d2o 1,602]

34 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Aja is the best player in the league. Her finishing 3rd in MVP was a joke, granted their team is stacked.

Stew is really good and she was deserving for MVP but you're right that it's very Hakeem/DRob / Jordan/Barkley etc.

Crazy that they lost Candace and are still whipping everyone's ass.

That is definitely the vibe I get.   She (and they as a team) wants to show she is the better of the two.   They dont matchup 1v1 quite as much as Hakeem/Robinson did but the idea is still there.

And yeah that really sucks about Candace.   I was really looking forward to her being an active part of getting that 3rd ring for a 3rd team.

[Underdog 28,437]

The up and under move she pulled was a thing of beauty, odd spacing on the in between games. 

[d2o 1,602]

Interesting news on both sides.   The liberty sold out Barclay's for game 3.   A full 17k+ in the building.  The games are drawing pretty good ratings despite playing at 3pm on a NFL Sunday.

 

Then there is this.    On the one hand its good that the W owners are spending for better coaches.  On the other hiring a guy with no HC experience from a bad org and no connection to the W or the womens game and making him the highest paid coach in league history doesnt seem a good look and is definitely gonna have some blowback

 

 

 

[ztejas 43,244]

Just watched the G3 highlights. NY runs a really pretty offense to get shooters open and they can stroke it. 

Also their fans are better than Nets fans. 

[d2o 1,602]

No Chelsea Gray or Kiah Stokes for LV tonight.   They werent a deep team to begin with.   This might be too much to make up.   Still they only need to get one win.

[TommysTinyTowels 785]

29 minutes ago, d2o said:

No Chelsea Gray or Kiah Stokes for LV tonight.   They werent a deep team to begin with.   This might be too much to make up.   Still they only need to get one win.

Both in boots yesterday, so doesn't look good for the Aces. Probably back to Vegas, and Aja is going to have to carry the team more than she already does on Friday.

[TommysTinyTowels 785]

23 hours ago, TommysTinyTowels said:

Probably back to Vegas,

Or not.  Wild finish.

Aces the WNBA’s 1st repeat champions in 21 years. Congrats to Becky and the ladies.

[ATXbronco 4,060]

On 10/6/2023 at 11:42 AM, d2o said:

 

Seems weird to only add one team to a 12 team league but progress.

Noun. warrioress (plural warrioresses)

[d2o 1,602]

3 hours ago, TommysTinyTowels said:

Or not.  Wild finish.

Aces the WNBA’s 1st repeat champions in 21 years. Congrats to Becky and the ladies.

Yeah, really surprised they got it done but happy for them.    Aja brought in a major way.    The clips of their postgame pressers are pretty amazing.   They were LIT last yr and they actually looked like they turned it up from then last night.   They are a well built roster and if they add some depth in cases of injury they should be right back next yr.

Stewie would be getting skewered if W coverage was similar to NBA coverage.   An MVP getting completely outplayed by the 3rd place finisher and going 3-17 in the closeout is a tough way to go out.

 

 

 

[closetohumping 17,380]

Caitlin Clark has quite a few haters including Sheryl swoopes:

 

 

[d2o 1,602]

21 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Caitlin Clark has quite a few haters including Sheryl swoopes:

 

 

Swoopes was uniformed on the record talk.   I wouldnt consider her take on Caitlin not coming in and dominating is hating though.  She said Cait would be a superstar but there are very few players that have come in as a rookie and dominated the W.   Candace Parker is about the only one I can think of.

 

Kelsey Plum who's record Clark is about to break didnt come into the league and dominate.   She took quite a few yrs to become a real star player and she still is not the best player on her team.  Not even the 2nd best actually.

Edited February 8 by d2o

[closetohumping 17,380]

4 minutes ago, d2o said:

Swoopes was uniformed on the record talk.   I wouldnt consider her take on Caitlin not coming in and dominating is hating though.  She said Cait would be a superstar but there are very few players that have come in as a rookie and dominated the W.   Candace Parker is about the only one I can think of.

She called Clark a 25 year old ball hog.   She needs to make sure she has her facts straight before spewing garbage. Bad look

[d2o 1,602]

10 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

She called Clark a 25 year old ball hog.   She needs to make sure she has her facts straight before spewing garbage. Bad look

Is this a quote?

 

[closetohumping 17,380]

2 minutes ago, d2o said:

Is this a quote?

 

Did you listen to the entire interview?

[TommysTinyTowels 785]

58 minutes ago, d2o said:

Is this a quote?

Swoopes:

• That Clark is a 25-year-old beating up on young kids. (She’s 22.)
• That Clark takes “about 40 shots a game.” (She’s at 22.3 field goal attempts for the season and 19.7 for her career, while Swoopes averaged 24.9 in two years at Texas Tech.)
• That the all-time Division I scoring record Clark is about to break isn’t legitimate because she has a fifth year of eligibility due to COVID-19. (Clark will break the record in less than four.)

[d2o 1,602]

40 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Did you listen to the entire interview?

Not every single minute.  Did you?   

She was prolly hating a bit but I cant find anything  saying she called her a "ball hog".   She did say she shot "40 times a gm" which was hyperbole.  She is definitely shooting a lot at 22 times a gm.   To contrast, only one player in the W shot more than 20 times a game (Jewell Loyd 20.3) last yr.   No one else shot more 19 times a gm.     

Its wack when old heads hate but its not new nor is Caitlyn unique is receiving it.

[TommysTinyTowels 785]

Swoopes called our game vs K State  on January 13th and was very complimentary of our team and expressed sadness at Rori's ACL injury.

I thought she did a fine job, not sure why she was negative about Clark.

[Brothahorn 10,085]

Caitlin Clark has quite a few haters including Sheryl swoopes: