Shooting at Austin protest tonight, 1 dead

[BradInATX 9208]

4 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

The driver ran an obvious red light and turned into a large crowd of people honking his horn aggressively. It looks like a possible case of road rage.

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With a gun in the car or on him. Lot of smoke.

But I'm waiting on more facts to form an opinion. Because as we've learned repeatedly recently, you can't trust the "facts" and witnesses in the first day or two after something like this. The street-level eye-witnesses are all likely to be biased, as is anything coming from the police (biased in the opposite direction) right now. Since I'm not a fool, right now I'm avoiding posting any hot takes that could make me foolish later. It was definitely a mistake for him to turn into the crowd like that, but his intent is going to be critical to getting the full picture, and we don't have that right now.

Frankly I hope it was just a drunk dude who didn't realize what was happening. The last thing we need is to stoke the fire even more.

Edited July 26, 2020 by BradInATX

[Captainant 27639]

1 minute ago, Deej said:

Did they storm them, or protest outside?

Carrying a rifle to any protest is idiotic, BTW. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/04/30/armed-protesters-storm-michigan-state-house-over-covid-19-lockdown

And yes, carrying a firearm to a peaceful protest sort of sends the wrong message imo. 

[dcar00 14159]

3 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

The driver ran an obvious red light and turned into a large crowd of people honking his horn aggressively. It looks like a possible case of road rage.

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there might be another video but the cam from across the intersection you can't tell if the guy wasn't stopped further back..how far back from a red light do you need to be stopped before you can move foward and make a right on red?

[immamac 42838]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Sure, but if you're a protester who is aware of the increasing trend of cars plowing into BLM protesters, it's not unreasonable for that person to respond with deadly force right? But regardless, the driver is the one operating the multi ton vehicle, not the protester, and a reasonably cautious driver would have easily noticed the large crowd. 

I don't understand this jumping away from who instigated the encounter in the first place. But for the driver driving into a crowd, the victim would not be dead. 

No one is arguing that the driver didn't need to kill this guy. It's obvious to everyone that we would rather no shots have been fired and asshole driver gets a ticket or goes to jail for being an idiot. 

People are saying there is no way with the current facts that you could say this guy is guilty of murder without reasonable doubt. The ONLY person shot had a fucking AK-47 and ran up on the car. 

Who cares if the guy shot his rifle or not, he had a fucking rifle and swarmed another dudes car with a group of aggressive people. That's enough for reasonable doubt with any jury that would have me or a lot of people I know on it. 

[Captainant 27639]

Just now, immamac said:

Who cares if the guy shot his rifle or not, he had a fucking rifle and swarmed another dudes car with a group of aggressive people. That's enough for reasonable doubt with any jury that would have me or a lot of people I know on it. 

Is it "swarming" a car when it drives directly into your group and people have to jump out of the way to avoid injury? I don't buy the narrative that the protesters were the aggressors when they just had to dodge a deadly weapon driving straight at them, accidental or not. 

[immamac 42838]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Is it "swarming" a car when it drives directly into your group and people have to jump out of the way to avoid injury? I don't buy the narrative that the protesters were the aggressors when they just had to dodge a deadly weapon driving straight at them, accidental or not. 

Watch the video. People ran to it after he came to a stop. Don't be a fucking asshole man I'm not telling you that you are wrong in being angry that this person is dead and it was avoidable.

This is just a really sad case of "use your fucking brain" - ak-47 guy is the only one with holes in him and the only one that is dead. No ak-47 no get shot. No rush car that drives into crowd with ak-47 no get shot. 

[Gourmand 7774]

Not just cause to aim and or fire a gun at someone in a car. 
Otherwise on Mopac, Congress, Lamar, WadaLOOpey and I-35 there would be fuck tons of legal shootings weekly. 

This is just baseless speculation that you want to be true. There's no evidence of him firing his weapon and from your posts here, you seem really quick to defend the shooting of a BLM protester without knowing key facts.

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[Brothahorn 10087]

1. Those first shots were definitely from rifle.

2. Why would you take a rifle to anti-violence/peaceful protest? I could see taking a CW, just in case shit goes crazy, but c'mon son. 

3. When keeping it real goes wrong.

[F250 28764]

The Johnny Cash song "Don't Take Your Guns to Town" comes to mind. This open carry shit creates unnecessary tension and will inevitably lead to more fatalities.

[MirrOlure 14760]

Sure, but if you're a protester who is aware of the increasing trend of cars plowing into BLM protesters, it's not unreasonable for that person to respond with deadly force right? But regardless, the driver is the one operating the multi ton vehicle, not the protester, and a reasonably cautious driver would have easily noticed the large crowd.  I don't understand this jumping away from who instigated the encounter in the first place. But for the driver driving into a crowd, the victim would not be dead. 

 

Why am I recalling some old ‘70’s variety show where a yogi folded himself into a small plexiglass box?

 

That’s some serious twisting of logic. Bravo

 

Easiest way to avoid getting “plowed over” is to stay the fuck off the street and move away from cars and not toward them. Don’t want to get shot? Don’t fuck around with guns unless you have a purpose to do so. It’s all worked for me for almost 54 years.

[RomaVicta 29902]

Seems like a lot of people want to dismiss eyewitness accounts in order to apply guessing as to what happened. They also seem to be asserting that those believing the eyewitnesses are rushing to judgment while they themselves are not as they do their guessing.

We don't know exactly what happened, no. We can see and have heard verification that the driver directed his car into a crowd and evidently had a loaded gun close at hand. I can't come up with many plausible innocent intentions on his part. I believe he also fled, did he not? Doesn't that suggest something about his own disposition towards what happened?

No matter the side, the presence of openly carried assault rifles at a public gathering strikes me as crazy and dangerous. We don't know what happened at the moment of the shooting. Still, it seems we can draw a picture of what the driver was up to.

Edited July 26, 2020 by RomaVicta

[Deej 76756]

Everyone involved should have stayed their ass at home. Flatten the curve, people. 

[clapclapclap 9000]

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by clapclapclap

[Somnio 751]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

The Johnny Cash song "Don't Take Your Guns to Town" comes to mind. This open carry shit creates unnecessary tension and will inevitably lead to more fatalities.

Open carry pertains to handguns, and you must be licensed.

Anyone whom legally owns a rifle can "open carry" anywhere at any anytime with a few exceptions.  It has always been the case in Texas.

God Bless Texas!

 

[Foggy Notion 1202]

Nevermind 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Foggy Notion
Clap got it.

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

35 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Regardless of where the mic is in that video, those shots sound very different. I'm willing to bet it isn't the same gun - not only is the 2nd barrage quieter it has a very different tone. I'm not sure how much the position would matter downtown since the sound is going to bounce off of everything regardless.

I also trust whoever said it was unmistakably an AK on the first 5. I don't know why you would comment that unless you've been around enough AK shots to know for certain.

 

Or you have watched Heartbreak Ridge a few too many times.

[Gourmand 7774]

 

Makes sense because other witnesses reported that at least nine people have been open carrying at BLM protests.

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[dcar00 14159]

16 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Seems like a lot of people want to dismiss eyewitness accounts in order to apply guessing as to what happened. They also seem to be asserting that those believing the eyewitnesses are rushing to judgment while they themselves are not as they do their guessing.

We don't know exactly what happened, no. We can see and have heard verification that the driver directed his car into a crowd and evidently had a loaded gun close at hand. I can't come up with many plausible innocent intentions on his part. I believe he also fled, did he not? Doesn't that suggest something about his own disposition towards what happened?

No matter the side, the presence of openly carried assault rifles at a public gathering strikes me as crazy and dangerous. We don't know what happened at the moment of the shooting. Still, it seems we can draw a picture of what the driver was up to.

IMO, the guy sees the opening to turn right, then sees more people in front of him and stops. it is possible he had bad intentions but it could have been just that.  he did stop.  car was then at some point surrounded.  shots get fired.  he might have exited the vehicle and ran because shots were fired, he fired back, and staying in the vehicle wasn't the safest place to be at that point.  who knows.  

Edit: it is possible the guy in the car was the first to fire, shouldn't have said he fired back

Edited July 26, 2020 by dcar00

[Judge Roybeanbag 11819]

6 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

 

Well that makes it sound like there was a third person.  Unless they’re considering charging the dead guy.

[Gourmand 7774]

See post 210. 
I don't "want" anything to be true.
What I stated is that you can't legally shoot at someone because you witnessed road rage. 
Care to dispute that statement?

I agree with that and I bet Garrett Walker would too. He didn't fire his weapon, so why are you insinuating otherwise?

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[Brothahorn 10087]

3 minutes ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

Or you have watched Heartbreak Ridge a few too many times.

 

2 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Well that makes it sound like there was a third person.  Unless they’re considering charging the dead guy.

It was definitely a rifle. And I can accept the possibility that it was not the victims. But when shot's start going off, people do stupid shit. Like the firing into the crowd. 

[dcar00 14159]

so we have white on white shooting here correct?  

[Neonmoon 38129]

No one can definitely prove the first gunshots were fired from the AK. I'm going to assume Surly gun sound detectives will not be testifying in court. 

 

 

[Brisketexan 105082]

Driver started a traffic violation, not a violent act based on facts reported. 

Incorrect, based on both reported facts and video, because they both show this:

The driver ran an obvious red light and turned into a large crowd of people honking his horn aggressively. It looks like a possible case of road rage.

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The people in the street who were marching before the car turned into them didn’t create the confrontation. They may well have escalated it, though...and that turned out poorly. As for this,..

Same for the people in the street, yes?
its dumb to try to assign motive based off sketchy info. Could he have simply been drunk?

I agree, no way to assign any motive at this point. Shit, I really do hope it was just a drunk who made a shorty decision. We don’t need any more ratcheting up of tension.

The Johnny Cash song "Don't Take Your Guns to Town" comes to mind. This open carry shit creates unnecessary tension and will inevitably lead to more fatalities.

And yeah...I’ve said this 1,000 times: if you show up with a gun, then ANY confrontation that occurs ends up being a gunfight. That’s a bad fucking outcome. Open carry may be legal....but it’s a terrible fucking idea. Kind of like saying the n-word may be legal...but especially if you’re a white dude hanging out in an area with a lot of black people, it’s a terrible idea.
Open carry is intended to start shit. It’s intended to intimidate, and to tell the world that “any confrontation with me will be a gunfight.” That tells any opponent who may have a gun to skip all intermediate steps, and in the event of a confrontation, he best shoot you. Looks like in this case, the opponent took him up on it. No matter who was legally in the right, it shouldn’t have ended up in a gunfight. Leave the AK at home.

[Gourmand 7774]

No one can definitely prove the first gunshots were fired from the AK. I'm going to assume Surly gun sound detectives will not be testifying in court. 
 
 

Yet they are quick to disavow anyone who was right there.

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[dcar00 14159]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

No one can definitely prove the first gunshots were fired from the AK. I'm going to assume Surly gun sound detectives will not be testifying in court. 

 

 

correct, we don't know yet.  

[Brisketexan 105082]

I agree with that and I bet Garrett Walker would too. He didn't fire his weapon, so why are you insinuating otherwise?

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APD is now reporting that two people were shooting. One of them may have been the victim - we don’t know one way or the other. Burnteyes’ posts above have been really good. Read them again.
Facts are still way underdeveloped. There are very few things that we know with much level of certainty. We know what the video shows the car doing at the beginning. We know the victim is dead. We don’t KNOW much about the in between period.

[Gourmand 7774]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

APD is now reporting that two people were shooting. One of them may have been the victim - we don’t know one way or the other. Burnteyes’ posts above have been really good. Read them again.
Facts are still way underdeveloped. There are very few things that we know with much level of certainty. We know what the video shows the car doing at the beginning. We know the victim is dead. We don’t KNOW much about the in between period.

Does APD charge dead people?

[F250 28764]

3 minutes ago, Somnio said:

Open carry pertains to handguns, and you must be licensed.

Anyone whom legally owns a rifle can "open carry" anywhere at any anytime with a few exceptions.  It has always been the case in Texas.

God Bless Texas!

 

An open display of any firearm creates unnecessary tension. As in this case, someonwas killed while doing it and some believe that the shooter may have been justified in doing it if they perceived their life was in danger.

I started a thread on ToS about 6 years ago about the open carry loons standing in rush hour traffic. I remember feeling very uncomfortable stuck in traffic while strangers were standing at lights holding rifles. I assume a lot of people would feel threatened in such a situation. It creates unnecessary tension. Of course it's legal but only knuckleheads exercise that right. It's just takes two knuckleheads to escalate the situation.

Now we are seeing people all over the country carrying weapons in public where tensions are very high.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Open carry all you want.  Better not shoulder it and point it.  Did that happen here?  Did dead guy shoulder his AK?

[Gourmand 7774]

4 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Does APD charge dead people?

But granted, that's assuming Plohetski's follow up tweet is an accurate statement. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

13 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

so we have white on white shooting here correct?  

[RomaVicta 29902]

Well, back when I was fighting alongside Charlie and Hanoi Jane, we all used AKs, so I think I'm something of an expert on that myself.

[Deej 76756]

2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Well, back when I was fighting alongside Charlie and Hanoi Jane, we all used AKs, so I think I'm something of an expert on that myself.

First you was down with the AK
And now I see you on a video with Michel'le?

[hayden_horn 11362]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Open carry all you want.  Better not shoulder it and point it.  Did that happen here?  Did dead guy shoulder his AK?

the very presence of a fucking ak is going to escalate any tension at all. 

don't carry guns to protests. it's a sure fire way to escalate any confusing situation.

again, i'm not defending the shooter necessarily, as we don't know all the facts or the order of events.

but, man, carrying a rifle at low ready in a charged situation is a ticket for trouble. even just slinging it over your back would be very different than walking around in the dark with a gun at low ready. no one can really see your trigger finger, and it only takes a second to make a mistake.

no cloaky, but gun owners, yall need to have a think about what happened here, because it ain't gonna be the last time. 

[BradInATX 9208]

2 minutes ago, F250 said:

An open display of any firearm creates unnecessary tension. As in this case, someonwas killed while doing it and some believe that the shooter may have been justified in doing it if they perceived their life was in danger.

I started a thread on ToS about 6 years ago about the open carry loons standing in rush hour traffic. I remember feeling very uncomfortable stuck in traffic while strangers were standing at lights holding rifles. I assume a lot of people would feel threatened in such a situation. It creates unnecessary tension. Of course it's legal but only knuckleheads exercise that right. It's just takes two knuckleheads to escalate the situation.

Now we are seeing people all over the country carrying weapons in public where tensions are very high.

 

It's ridiculous and it's purely to either try to look cool and assert some perceived authority over other people, or to start shit. It's Eric Cartman nonsense. I fear another CHL holder much more than I fear the guy carrying the AR around with a tactical vest. All the open carry rifle guys are doing is limiting the options of someone in confrontation with them. A trained, gun-savvy CHL guy is going to instantly remove "talk it out" and "punch them in the face" from their set of options should they end up dealing with one of those morons. You've left him two options - flee or kill you. That's not smart.

[hayden_horn 11362]

8 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

But granted, that's assuming Plohetski's follow up tweet is an accurate statement. 

correct, but he is one of the better local reporters.

[MirrOlure 14760]

Does APD charge dead people?

Or it could have been a poorly worded tweet by using the word “they”.

In any event, can’t they easily determine whether the AK was fired at all? Or have I been watching too much CSI?

[Fondren & Main 6703]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Open carry all you want.  Better not shoulder it and point it.  Did that happen here?  Did dead guy shoulder his AK?

Cannot say for certain because of the lack of video evidence.

There is an exceedingly strong possibility that a few rifle rounds were fired first followed by pistol rounds later.  It sounds like this to me.

The other exceedingly probable event is that the AK47 owner indeed fires first as he was the only casualty.  He’s already on video aggressively seeking a confrontation.

[mdmost 43001]

Is this the first instance of an open carry person getting shot at a protest? I was assuming this would've happened a lot sooner. 

[Somnio 751]

9 minutes ago, F250 said:

An open display of any firearm creates unnecessary tension. As in this case, someonwas killed while doing it and some believe that the shooter may have been justified in doing it if they perceived their life was in danger.

I started a thread on ToS about 6 years ago about the open carry loons standing in rush hour traffic. I remember feeling very uncomfortable stuck in traffic while strangers were standing at lights holding rifles. I assume a lot of people would feel threatened in such a situation. It creates unnecessary tension. Of course it's legal but only knuckleheads exercise that right. It's just takes two knuckleheads to escalate the situation.

Now we are seeing people all over the country carrying weapons in public where tensions are very high.

I concur, as do most Texans I believe since it's a very rare occurrence to see anyone other than law enforcement or certain security officers openly carrying handguns or long guns.

However,  like many others I wholeheartedly support the right to do so for a myriad of reasons.

[Deej 76756]

6 hours ago, immamac said:

First civilian on civilian gun related death in Austin correct? 

I invite you to my neighborhood any day of the week. 

[BradInATX 9208]

 

FWIW

[Foggy Notion 1202]

I’m not on Facebook so I can’t link to it, but there’s a discussion going on in the comments on Foster’s page. A guy claiming to be a “medic” and part of an armed group says he fired the last three shots at the car as it drove away. 

[ztejas 43414]

Buddy who has been around more guns than probably anyone on this site also thinks it is AK then handgun. 

(Actually didnt say that - just said 2nd set of shots is definitely a handgun)

Edited July 26, 2020 by ztejas

[hayden_horn 11362]

Quote

On Sunday afternoon, KVUE Senior Reporter Tony Plohetski confirmed with police that two people opened fire during the shooting. Neither shooter was the man who was killed.

Officials believe one shooter was the driver of a car and the other was in the crowd and may have opened fire on the car as it drove away. The investigation remains fluid, but as of 2 p.m. Sunday, this is the account police have of what happened.

is it possible that the car shooter had a rifle or an ar-15? some of yall seem very convinced that it was a rifle in the first couple of shots, for reasons that are a bit confusing to me. gunshots can sound like all sorts of things depending on where you are standing.

why are yall so convinced that it was a long gun in the first reports?

[Kavinsky 417]

7 hours ago, Lat22 said:

At least one of them isn’t. Lol. 

 

[cabowabo 4484]

Fucking idiot. 

[hayden_horn 11362]

listened to the tape: i don't know guns. but the two shots are definitely different. i have a 9mm, but have fired all kinds of guns. the first five shots are heavier caliber than what sounds to me like a 9mm for the second set of shots. i'd be willing the car driver had a .45 or something along those lines. i've shot an ar-15 (not an ak-47), but those shots just sounded like "real handgun" to me more than rifle shots.

your mileage may vary.

[Gourmand 7774]