Shooting at Austin protest tonight, 1 dead

[Telegraph_it 3364]

3 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

He made a right turn on red. Are right turns on red not legal in Texas?

Just be glad Austin doesn’t have hook turns. We would be debating traffic law until the Covid vaccine is released at best. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

Just now, dcar00 said:

I don't know but I assumed it would be on this thread if they had.

I figured but don't want to get out over my skis. Seems strange going on 24 hours now. 

Is it true APD is stating they've released the suspect?

[justhookit 4191]

Yeah this whole ran a red light and drove into a crowd of protestors is lunacy. He rolled a stop to turn right on red. Watch the video again. A pedestrian crosses right in front of him before he makes the right turn. Then he turns right and comes to a stop pretty quickly. If his intent was drive into the crowd he would have fucking gone straight, you know where the big mob of people were that you see on the video.

[Hate 20155]

1 minute ago, justhookit said:

Yeah this whole ran a red light and drove into a crowd of protestors is lunacy. He rolled a stop to turn right on red. Watch the video again. A pedestrian crosses right in front of him before he makes the right turn. Then he turns right and comes to a stop pretty quickly. If his intent was drive into the crowd he would have fucking gone straight, you know where the big mob of people were that you see on the video.

Stop making sense.  This person wanted to drive into a crowd...but a much smaller one than the one right in front of him. 

[dcar00 14466]

3 minutes ago, Hate said:

Stop making sense.  This person wanted to drive into a crowd...but a much smaller one than the one right in front of him. 

maybe he didn't want to "block the box"...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Why is everyone okay with a guy turning into a crowd of people? Take motive out of it. Take intent out of it. Someone please explain to me why you believe a car has the right to drive into a crowd of people?

The car had no right to drive into a crowd of people.  Black, white, or otherwise, cars have no rights.

[dimyh 1874]

34 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Center console holstered.  Loaded but not chambered.

Ok so quickly available, say 1 to 2 seconds, if someone was feeling threatened. Seems plausible considering reaction time after turn till shots fired. Nothing indicates driver was looking to do harm since he did stop the car initially and then after the shooting he did turn himself. He does look guilty of being a shitty driver and then panicking once he saw crowd swarming him. Will be interesting to see how they charge this one out.

 

Is central console locked for those situations where you can't conceal carry? And are you having to make a lot of trips back and forth throughout the day to stash your gun as some locations allow if and some places don't?

[Brisketexan 105490]

you are pretending that the "pedestrians" were innocent people just walking away from the bars and clubs or from a UT game.....you are trying to obfuscate the fact that they were in fact attempting to violate one of the most basic civil rights of freedom of movement without obstruction
their stated purpose is to disrupt others and the freedoms of others because of their perceived notion that the police do that to those they support
because you believe you are on the side of "good" that does not mean you can do the very things you accuse "evil" of doing especially when you are doing it to random people that you know nothing at all about

that court case has nothing to do with some random asshole telling you that "you can't pass down some place you have the right to be because I say so"
if you are going to attempt to make that claim then surely you are also in favor of people in neighborhoods telling those they do not like the look of that they cannot travel the public roads and sidewalks in that neighborhood because they have decided they can say that and enforce it?
or does only one side get to infringe on others rights like that.....even if they know absolutely nothing about those they are infringing on the rights of
when you are out and armed and looking to randomly infringe on others rights then you get what you get and no one should try and spin it where the person that gave you what you were looking for was in the wrong because they should have accepted the illegal and wrongful behavior of others and given in to their violation of civil rights (laughably in the name of defending civil rights)

Holy shit. What terrible takes.

Neon, let's not lose sight of the fact that these posters believe that jaywalking is justification for driving your car into a crowd (whether intentionally or unintentionally).
You are not going to have a reasonable conversation with these people. They are happy about what happened. They can hardly contain it.

Even assuming all is correct - the crowd is impeding traffic, in violation of the law - that would not justify the use of deadly force (if that’s what the driver was doing by driving towards the crowd).
You don’t get to use deadly force against anyone you see breaking the law. You just don’t, it’s clearly fucking established law. You only get to use deadly force to respond to criminal acts (outside of your home) that create a threat of death or serious bodily injury. Blocking traffic by being an asshole isn’t that.

[ButtFumble 5186]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

 

Holy shit. What terrible takes.

Even assuming all is correct - the crowd is impeding traffic, in violation of the law - that would not justify the use of deadly force (if that’s what the driver was doing by driving towards the crowd).
You don’t get to use deadly force against anyone you see breaking the law. You just don’t, it’s clearly fucking established law. You only get to use deadly force to respond to criminal acts (outside of your home) that create a threat of death or serious bodily injury. Blocking traffic by being an asshole isn’t that.

 

and so far there is nothing that shows he used deadly force towards the crowd with his car

he has not been charged with that nor has he been charged in the shooting

no one has been shown to have any injuries by the car or was touched by the car

if you want to go out and block streets while armed to try and intimidate random people and make people feel uncomfortable them you should expect you might get some of that back (never mind there is no proof that was what the driver was doing since no one was touched or injured by the car and the driver stopped)

and even if the driver was doing that....well when you go out armed to impeded people and intimidate them and make them uncomfortable and you get some of that back....well if you cannot stand down before you pose a threat with your weapon then you might get your ass shot off.....or if you are not fast enough with your tool of intimidation and uncomfortableness than the other person....well you lose sucks to be you......next time be faster or less of a pussy

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

10 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Didn't see this answered but apparently yes. At least two people were questioned and released from what I understand. Not sure it was confirmed it was the shooters. 

Damn. Just googling what I can find on the killing the most recent update I found was this with statements from Police Chief Manley indicating that APD still was still grappling with a lot of unanswered questions regarding the killing.

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/downtown-austin-shooting-congress-sixth-street/269-9cd396c1-169c-45be-9529-c1e4662f838e

[Brisketexan 105490]

Your glee at this is pretty fucking sad.

Cool. You like the fact that someone died because they were assholes blocking traffic - that’s your core principle here. Thats fucking sick.

[clapclapclap 9000]

48 minutes ago, Telegraph_it said:

Just be glad Austin doesn’t have hook turns. We would be debating traffic law until the Covid vaccine is released at best. 

I had to look it up:

 

But seriously, I think we can all agree that this death could have been prevented if Austin had only traffic circles.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

Isn't there/wasn't there a thread on TOS linked to APD bookings for everyone who got arrested?

[clapclapclap 9000]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Your glee at this is pretty fucking sad.

Cool. You like the fact that someone died because they were assholes blocking traffic - that’s your core principle here. Thats fucking sick.

I don't think Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand is being gleeful about the death.  You're out of line. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by clapclapclap

[ztejas 43615]

6 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

I had to look it up:

 

But seriously, I think we can all agree that this death could have been prevented if Austin had only traffic circles.

Do they even have these in the US? I've never seen that anywhere. 

[Cajun 11760]

58 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

I figured but don't want to get out over my skis. Seems strange going on 24 hours now. 

Is it true APD is stating they've released the suspect?

FFS I've posted this about 3 times already, but I literally heard Manley on KLBJ around 5pm saying that both shooters were detained and are now released.  Here's a cut and paste from KVUE to back that up...

Quote

Manley said detectives are reviewing "precise actions" of those involved, investigators are coordinating with Travis County prosecutors, and the two people who fired shots have been released "pending further investigation." 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Cajun
I'm just kinda yanking your chain here a bit as I'm aware that not everyone has the time or desire to read every post.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

6 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

I don't think Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand is being gleeful about the death.  You're out of line. 

I'm good. Don't think it was directed at me, but good even if so.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

3 minutes ago, Cajun said:

FFS I've posted this about 3 times already, but I literally heard Manley on KLBJ around 5pm saying that both shooters were detained and are now released.  Here's a cut and paste from KVUE to back that up...

 

Who are the 2 shooters?

[Cajun 11760]

Dude.

 

[Cajun 11760]

Obligatory...

 

Quote

Police identify Downtown Austin protest shooting victim; say he reportedly pointed weapon at car before being shot, killed

Manley confirmed on July 26 that one shooter was the driver of a car and said the other was in the crowd and may have opened fire on the car as it drove away.

 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

...and I appreciate the response.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

8 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Obligatory...

 

 

They detained a dead guy? That would account for one out of two. 

[Fondren & Main 6754]

40 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Ok so quickly available, say 1 to 2 seconds, if someone was feeling threatened. Seems plausible considering reaction time after turn till shots fired. Nothing indicates driver was looking to do harm since he did stop the car initially and then after the shooting he did turn himself. He does look guilty of being a shitty driver and then panicking once he saw crowd swarming him. Will be interesting to see how they charge this one out.

 

Is central console locked for those situations where you can't conceal carry? And are you having to make a lot of trips back and forth throughout the day to stash your gun as some locations allow if and some places don't?

Don’t have to have a license to stow it like I have it, but I do have a license.  In Texas you could have a chambered weapon on the passenger seat as long as it is covered with a shirt or not visible.  You can keep the gun in the car 99% of the places you go with zero issues too.  Federal places like a courthouse parking lot or post office parking lot it’s a felony.  If I went to the post office I would park across the street or not on the premises.  I leave the gun in the car, but o drive an older model car so I’m not worried about a break in.  

[Cajun 11760]

2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

They detained a dead guy? That would account for one out of two. 

Donny, please.

[dcar00 14466]

32 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

and so far there is nothing that shows he used deadly force towards the crowd with his car

he has not been charged with that nor has he been charged in the shooting

no one has been shown to have any injuries by the car or was touched by the car

if you want to go out and block streets while armed to try and intimidate random people and make people feel uncomfortable them you should expect you might get some of that back (never mind there is no proof that was what the driver was doing since no one was touched or injured by the car and the driver stopped)

and even if the driver was doing that....well when you go out armed to impeded people and intimidate them and make them uncomfortable and you get some of that back....well if you cannot stand down before you pose a threat with your weapon then you might get your ass shot off.....or if you are not fast enough with your tool of intimidation and uncomfortableness than the other person....well you lose sucks to be you......next time be faster or less of a pussy

but its CLEARLY FUCKING ESTABLISHED LAW!

[ButtFumble 5186]

https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/ems-at-least-one-critically-injured-in-downtown-austin-shooting/

James Sasinowski, a local organizer who said he was present during the incident, said that earlier in the day, people had organized a demonstration in downtown Austin in solidarity with protesters in Portland, but by the evening the event had shifted into a Black Lives Matter-focused event.

Sasinowski said he met Foster and his fiancée very briefly, noting they were easy to spot throughout the marching because Foster was pushing his fiancée’s wheelchair and was carrying a rifle.

Sasinowski recalled as the demonstrators were heading north on Congress Avenue, a black Sedan turned right onto Congress. He noted that some people jumped in the way of this car and started banging on it, afraid that the car was attempting to run people over.

 

yea that seems reasonable.....people jumped in front of the car because they thought the car was trying to run people over 🤣

 

 

[Fondren & Main 6754]

40 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Ok so quickly available, say 1 to 2 seconds, if someone was feeling threatened. Seems plausible considering reaction time after turn till shots fired. Nothing indicates driver was looking to do harm since he did stop the car initially and then after the shooting he did turn himself. He does look guilty of being a shitty driver and then panicking once he saw crowd swarming him. Will be interesting to see how they charge this one out.

 

Is central console locked for those situations where you can't conceal carry? And are you having to make a lot of trips back and forth throughout the day to stash your gun as some locations allow if and some places don't?

Don’t have to have a license to stow it like I have it, but I do have a license.  In Texas you could have a chambered weapon on the passenger seat as long as it is covered with a shirt or not visible.  You can keep the gun in the car 99% of the places you go with zero issues too.  Federal places like a courthouse parking lot or post office parking lot it’s a felony.  If I went to the post office I would park across the street or not on the premises.  I leave the gun in the car, but I drive an older model car so I’m not worried about a break in.  

[Fondren & Main 6754]

40 minutes ago, dimyh said:

Ok so quickly available, say 1 to 2 seconds, if someone was feeling threatened. Seems plausible considering reaction time after turn till shots fired. Nothing indicates driver was looking to do harm since he did stop the car initially and then after the shooting he did turn himself. He does look guilty of being a shitty driver and then panicking once he saw crowd swarming him. Will be interesting to see how they charge this one out.

 

Is central console locked for those situations where you can't conceal carry? And are you having to make a lot of trips back and forth throughout the day to stash your gun as some locations allow if and some places don't?

Don’t have to have a license to stow it like I have it, but I do have a license.  In Texas you could have a chambered weapon on the passenger seat as long as it is covered with a shirt or not visible.  You can keep the gun in the car 99% of the places you go with zero issues too.  Federal places like a courthouse parking lot or post office parking lot it’s a felony.  If I went to the post office I would park across the street or not on the premises.  I leave the gun in the car, but I drive an older model car so I’m not worried about a break in.  

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

Actually, they said the dead guy MAY have opened fire. I'll neg myself if I can.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

1 minute ago, Cajun said:

Donny, please.

Please what.

Who are the 2 shooters?

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

31 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

I had to look it up:

 

But seriously, I think we can all agree that this death could have been prevented if Austin had only traffic circles.

Yeah.  That would be a fucking disaster.  Why does it even exist?? 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Xian

[bad_teammate 13228]

So this might be the scenario...

- Protest of people walking down the street
- Guy tries to take a right on red, ends up very near protesters
- Some protesters see this as an attempted vehicle attack
- One protesters brandishes/fires weapon
- Driver pulls weapon and kills brandishing/firing protester

Fucking tragic

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

Also, just a PSA. You can't neg yourself.

[ButtFumble 5186]

Just now, dcar00 said:

but its CLEARLY FUCKING ESTABLISHED LAW!

what is established law?

the driver was not charged with using his vehicle to intimidate anyone, nor was he charged with striking anyone with it nor, was he charged with a hit and run

just because a group of people do not like you driving on the street they are attempting to block that does not mean you are trying to run them over

and as I quoted above at least one "organizer" stated that people actually RAN IN FRONT OF THE CAR

[JohnnyRage 1617]

1 hour ago, VABuckeye said:

He made a right turn on red. Are right turns on red not legal in Texas?

When you don't come to a stop just before entering the intersection it is plainly illegal.

[ztejas 43615]

1 minute ago, Xian said:

Yeah.  That would be a ducking disaster.  Why does it even exist?? 

It's like a semi-protected left (or right, depending on where you drive). Seems overly complicated and like it would cause more problems than it solves unless everyone was stringently on board.

So, I'm guessing the British came up with it.

[dcar00 14466]

5 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/ems-at-least-one-critically-injured-in-downtown-austin-shooting/

James Sasinowski, a local organizer who said he was present during the incident, said that earlier in the day, people had organized a demonstration in downtown Austin in solidarity with protesters in Portland, but by the evening the event had shifted into a Black Lives Matter-focused event.

Sasinowski said he met Foster and his fiancée very briefly, noting they were easy to spot throughout the marching because Foster was pushing his fiancée’s wheelchair and was carrying a rifle.

Sasinowski recalled as the demonstrators were heading north on Congress Avenue, a black Sedan turned right onto Congress. He noted that some people jumped in the way of this car and started banging on it, afraid that the car was attempting to run people over.

 

yea that seems reasonable.....people jumped in front of the car because they thought the car was trying to run people over 🤣

 

 

This car is going to be Christine by the end of this thread...

[dcar00 14466]

2 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

what is established law?

the driver was not charged with using his vehicle to intimidate anyone, nor was he charged with striking anyone with it nor, was he charged with a hit and run

just because a group of people do not like you driving on the street they are attempting to block that does not mean you are trying to run them over

and as I quoted above at least one "organizer" stated that people actually RAN IN FRONT OF THE CAR

busted meter...

[ztejas 43615]

I have multiple people on my instagram treating this guy like some sort of hero turned martyr.

Social media is going to be our undoing.

[Captainant 27889]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

So this might be the scenario...

- Protest of people walking down the street
- Guy tries to take a right on red, ends up very near protesters
- Some protesters see this as an attempted vehicle attack
- One protesters brandishes/fires weapon
- Driver pulls weapon and kills brandishing/firing protester

Fucking tragic

This seems to be the most likely based on what we know right now

[StruggleBus 3922]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Holy shit. What terrible takes.

Even assuming all is correct - the crowd is impeding traffic, in violation of the law - that would not justify the use of deadly force (if that’s what the driver was doing by driving towards the crowd).
You don’t get to use deadly force against anyone you see breaking the law. You just don’t, it’s clearly fucking established law. You only get to use deadly force to respond to criminal acts (outside of your home) that create a threat of death or serious bodily injury. Blocking traffic by being an asshole isn’t that.

 

Is there a video I haven’t seen that illustrates the deadly force you’re talking about?

[Telegraph_it 3364]

51 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Do they even have these in the US? I've never seen that anywhere. 

Only place I have seen a hook turn is in Melbourne. I thought about trying it in the rental once. I declined. 

[Brisketexan 105490]

Is there a video I haven’t seen that illustrates the deadly force you’re talking about?

I don’t know if the driver was using it. Im waiting to see the whole story. I’m commenting on the fact that buttfumble seems to think it would be just fine to use deadly force in response to the heinous crime of...people impeding traffic.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13595]

10 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Is there a video I haven’t seen that illustrates the deadly force you’re talking about?

 

[bad_teammate 13228]

6 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Is there a video I haven’t seen that illustrates the deadly force you’re talking about?

A car is a deadly weapon both in colloquial and legal terms.

Unfortunately, there is a history of people using vehicles to attack left-wing/anti-fascist/anti-racist protesters, sometimes with fatal results. So participants in these types of protests often view aggressive driving as attempted violence.

Also unfortunately, there is a history of people using weapons to attack all kinds of people in America. So the man who had the gun pointed at him often view brandishing as attempted violence.

This might have just been a dude trying to get home who found himself surrounded by people and saw a gun. Fucking stupid fucking country.

[Enchubben 5545]

2 hours ago, Bill Brasky said:

well, she is single now.   may as well shoot my shot.   no pun intended.   

That’s fucked up man, too soon. Hopefully she has friends or family to give her a hand.

[Enchubben 5545]

.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Enchubben
Double post

[blacklab 11957]

16 hours ago, bolverk said:

Different angle.

 

If you watch this video again it appears the main part of the intersection is pretty well lit, but the area past the intersection is not.

I could find it plausible that he came to the intersection, saw all the protesters, said aw fuck, I need to get out of here, glanced right, did not see additional protesters due to the lighting, glanced left to check to make sure no cars were coming, then after turning realized there were more protesters that he didn't see before turning and slammed on his breaks to prevent hitting them. 

If he wanted to cause a ruckus he could have just driven strait ahead into the much larger group.

I have no way of knowing what he was thinking or knowing why he did what he did, just offering this as a possibility.

 

[ButtFumble 5186]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

I don’t know if the driver was using it. Im waiting to see the whole story. I’m commenting on the fact that buttfumble seems to think it would be just fine to use deadly force in response to the heinous crime of...people impeding traffic.

so far there is no proof that the driver used any type of force much less deadly force

if you feel that your grievance allows you to try and intimidate others and prevent their freedom of movement and you want to be armed while doing that and surround people's cars and pound on them...and you get fucking shot then you get what you get

if these "protesters" were a group of white people trying to stop black people from driving through their neighborhood by blocking the street we all know you would not be taking the same position you are now you would be talking about racist, violent racist, civil rights violations and on and on.....you would not be talking about people simply "blocking the street" and someone "using their car as a weapon"

if it was a group of white people blocking that street and some were armed and they surrounded a car of black people and were beating on it you would have no issue with many of them getting shot or run over....because people like you believe in selective civil rights and you do not think that some people can be or have the right to be threatened by others.....while also thinking that others do have the right to feel threatened by people just because they feel those people do not support their cause....and they have the right to infringe on their civil rights as well

 

never mind that an "organizer" says that people RAN IN FRONT OF THE CAR TO STOP IT

if you run in front of a car to stop it and you are pounding on it (as the article states) and then someone comes up armed and that armed person gets shot and killed them fuck them

[Js1 85659]

6 minutes ago, ButtFumble said:

so far there is no proof that the driver used any type of force much less deadly force

if you feel that your grievance allows you to try and intimidate others and prevent their freedom of movement and you want to be armed while doing that and surround people's cars and pound on them...and you get fucking shot then you get what you get

if these "protesters" were a group of white people trying to stop black people from driving through their neighborhood by blocking the street we all know you would not be taking the same position you are now you would be talking about racist, violent racist, civil rights violations and on and on.....you would not be talking about people simply "blocking the street" and someone "using their car as a weapon"

if it was a group of white people blocking that street and some were armed and they surrounded a car of black people and were beating on it you would have no issue with many of them getting shot or run over....because people like you believe in selective civil rights and you do not think that some people can be or have the right to be threatened by others.....while also thinking that others do have the right to feel threatened by people just because they feel those people do not support their cause....and they have the right to infringe on their civil rights as well

 

never mind that an "organizer" says that people RAN IN FRONT OF THE CAR TO STOP IT

if you run in front of a car to stop it and you are pounding on it (as the article states) and then someone comes up armed and that armed person gets shot and killed them fuck them

You type too much stupid shit and too many run on sentences.