Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

Just like when you have ten million stops go without incident, but if 10 go awry, the entire police force is typecast as garbage.

Yes. Being the flipside of a coin you hate doesn't accomplish anything.

So yeah, just like that.

[Willfully Horn 7916]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. And there's basically no pudding to speak of.

Doesn’t pudding need a rest, to set? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia/philadelphia-police-reform-bill-bans-chokeholds-20200917.html%3foutputType=amp

Granted, single data point. But there are other, similar, data points. As is any one poll showing the number of citizens who realize BLM has a valid claim: that black citizens experience violence disproportionate to their population.

Should we be so lucky as to continue our great experiment, I am bullish on character becoming an individual’s litmus test. Rule of law is the more immediate concern, IMO, and a clear re-affirmation will also further BLM’s goals. Discrimination based on race is illegal. 

BLM needs to factor the ease with which their message can be hijacked. Equal treatment under the law is a simple sell. 

 

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

12 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

hmmm crime has dropped dramatically but incarcerations have risen dramtically...

While correlation doesn't equal causation, sure, it follows that if you imprison an entire population, the crime rate will be zero.  But most all analysis of the issue demonstrates a closer tracking to better economic outcomes -- when people at the bottom are secure, crime goes down (which is an interesting irony of our current socioeconomic situation -- the bottom tier has marginally improved their lot; it's the middle class that's taking it in the shorts).

When you realize that most of our incarcerations are "war on drugs" related, that's a bad kicker.

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Just like when you have ten million stops go without incident, but if 10 go awry, the entire police force is typecast as garbage.

Nope.  The PD isn't garbage because 10 are bad.  It's garbage because 67% of them openly admit that the PD's culture is one of silence, covering for and protecting those 10 bad cops.  You never get to that point in your analysis, which makes it a half-truth and just a false statement.

PDs aren't bad because they have 10 shitbags.  They are bad because they have a culture that protects the shitbags at the expense of the people they are supposed to protect.

[Brisketexan 104628]

2 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Equal treatment under the law is a simple sell. 

Conceptually, yes.  In reality.....is it?

When you compare how police treat black people and white people in similar situations -- before the justice system even gets involved -- we have a large segment of society that reflexively finds the smallest thing the black guy did wrong, ignoring all the times a white "suspect" acted similarly or even worse, but got the benefit of the doubt and even kid glove treatment.  It's not just how the cops treat them, it's how we as a society contort ourselves to justify that disparate treatment.

[52-80 19096]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Depends on the media you choose to consume, and the stories they post that you choose to consume.  People self-select both the source, and the menu items that source offers that they want to consume.  People should seek out a balanced perspective.  They'll see the whole picture.  That's important to do.

Goes right back to 2 of my theses.  There is no real balanced media.  You have the Fox and the CNN that fan the flames, that people swallow head to tail, and then it's about being in My side vs Yours, total polar opposites only. 

I guarantee we probably share 80, 90% of the same views.  It's the last 20% that is a major turn-off. 

I'll support your peaceful march, your call out of corrupt PDs, but when you start excusing unruly conduct "because the people have been frustrated for so long", or cry outrage over some pretty questionable cases.... then i'm checking the fuck out.

[52-80 19096]

6 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Doesn’t pudding need a rest, to set? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia/philadelphia-police-reform-bill-bans-chokeholds-20200917.html%3foutputType=amp

Granted, single data point. But there are other, similar, data points. As is any one poll showing the number of citizens who realize BLM has a valid claim: that black citizens experience violence disproportionate to their population.

Should we be so lucky as to continue our great experiment, I am bullish on character becoming an individual’s litmus test. Rule of law is the more immediate concern, IMO, and a clear re-affirmation will also further BLM’s goals. Discrimination based on race is illegal. 

BLM needs to factor the ease with which their message can be hijacked. Equal treatment under the law is a simple sell. 

 

 

hi, based on your post count, you are new here. 

if so, a kind reminder that we try not to engage the resident goblin.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

29 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And millions of others engage in it in more constructive ways.  But that's what you focus on.

This same argument can be used against the BLM movement.

[Willfully Horn 7916]

No argument that the law is not being enforced equally. And I am glad that, too, has been made clear to a greater percentage of citizens. 

[Brisketexan 104628]

20 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why is it frustrating?

Serious question.

Because human psychology.  When you are evaluating another person's performance, and the main thing you mention, indeed, the only thing you focus on, is their failings, that's bad messaging.

I evaluate people all the time -- as an employer, as a board member on several bodies, etc.  One of my cardinal rules is that EVERY evaluation, unless it's one that is expressly setting the stage for a termination of a failure of an employee/director/etc., is that you have to begin by acknowledging and praising what they do and have done WELL. 

Point to their strengths, which naturally leads to a discussion of their abilities, which you can then point to for the areas where they've fallen short -- "you can clearly do better here in terms of X -- look how well you do in Y and Z."  If you leave people feeling ONLY criticized, or with ONLY the message that they have fallen short, then they are discouraged, and they tend to think "why fucking bother?  Whatever I do won't be good enough."  If your goal is progress, if your goal is for those people to do more and do it better, balanced messaging is the way to optimize things.

The goal is for American society to perform even better in terms of racial equality, equal application of the rule of law, and fundamental fairness and mutual cooperation.  The way to get there is not to either 1) brutally criticize, or 2) say "man, we've done a lot, shut the fuck up with your bitching."  The way to get there is to both acknowledge our progress, and use that as an example of what we can do, and to acknowledge the work that still needs to be done, and call Americans to action, to use the very abilities we have seen on display in our previous progress.

[workswithseed 2037]

This seems like a good time for Anastasis to both side on this.

[hayden_horn 11360]

19 minutes ago, Hate said:

It’s something that’s been repeated in this thread several times.

oh!

good zinger then! 

amazing.

[Willfully Horn 7916]

Brisket accurately notes the actions of folks who instinctively reject that we are not living up to our promise, and look to frame circumstance within our standard.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Willfully Horn
Clarity

[Brisketexan 104628]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

This same argument can be used against the BLM movement.

But it really can't.  Again, we seem to have a fundamental disconnect as to what we see as the problem with policing.

You seem to see it as the "10 bad cops."

You might find it shocking that I don't actually see the "10 bad cops" as the problem.  EVERY group will have shitheels in it.  I can go to a hospital, and find a few doctors at every one who are utter dicks (as just one example).

Rather, I see the problem as the culture of PDs that PROTECTS those "10 bad cops," at the expense of the very people they are sworn to protect.  I see the problem as the 67% of cops who say "yep, that's our culture, we don't turn on our brother officers."

To use the analogy, the problem isn't a few viruses hitting your nose every now and then -- it happens.  The problem is when your immune system, the very thing that's supposed to protect you from those viruses, PROTECTS those viruses and allows them to run amok in your body, doing great harm.

But we really can't even agree on that, because the refrain in response is "don't extrapolate the actions of the bad 10 cops onto whole PDs."  I don't.  That's not what I'm doing.  I'm holding the PDs accountable for their OWN actions, in perpetuating and fighting tooth and nail to preserve the culture that PROTECTS those 10 bad cops.

[dcar00 14035]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Because human psychology.  When you are evaluating another person's performance, and the main thing you mention, indeed, the only thing you focus on, is their failings, that's bad messaging.

I evaluate people all the time -- as an employer, as a board member on several bodies, etc.  One of my cardinal rules is that EVERY evaluation, unless it's one that is expressly setting the stage for a termination of a failure of an employee/director/etc., is that you have to begin by acknowledging and praising what they do and have done WELL. 

Point to their strengths, which naturally leads to a discussion of their abilities, which you can then point to for the areas where they've fallen short -- "you can clearly do better here in terms of X -- look how well you do in Y and Z."  If you leave people feeling ONLY criticized, or with ONLY the message that they have fallen short, then they are discouraged, and they tend to think "why fucking bother?  Whatever I do won't be good enough."  If your goal is progress, if your goal is for those people to do more and do it better, balanced messaging is the way to optimize things.

The goal is for American society to perform even better in terms of racial equality, equal application of the rule of law, and fundamental fairness and mutual cooperation.  The way to get there is not to either 1) brutally criticize, or 2) say "man, we've done a lot, shut the fuck up with your bitching."  The way to get there is to both acknowledge our progress, and use that as an example of what we can do, and to acknowledge the work that still needs to be done, and call Americans to action, to use the very abilities we have seen on display in our previous progress.

a shit ton of people don't care about bitching.  go ahead. its a free country.  just do it in a orderly fucking fashion.

[Brisketexan 104628]

Just now, dcar00 said:

a shit ton of people don't care about bitching.  go ahead. its a free country.  just do it in a orderly fucking fashion.

Is that really true?  Dude.....a crowd booed a symbolic UNITY line in a football pre-game.  There is ample evidence that a shitload of Americans don't like any grumbling, dissent, or even the hint that THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD is anything less than perfect.

You are saying what they all like to say....but when people peacefully make statements like this, they are pilloried, and not just by one or two random guys at the trailer park.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But it really can't.

Sure it can. As shitty as it sounds, their entire discussion point is statistically insignificant. 

I agree with you that we need a better job of "policing the police" and (IMNSHO) that starts by disbanding the union that protects them.

[dcar00 14035]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Is that really true?  Dude.....a crowd booed a symbolic UNITY line in a football pre-game.  There is ample evidence that a shitload of Americans don't like any grumbling, dissent, or even the hint that THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD is anything less than perfect.

You are saying what they all like to say....but when people peacefully make statements like this, they are pilloried, and not just by one or two random guys at the trailer park.

yep its a free country...so far.  I wouldn't boo anything, but stupid NFL fan gonna stupid NFL fan. at least both sides were orderly which was the point...which you missed.

 

[Hate 20103]

oh!
good zinger then! 
amazing.

Thanks?

[52-80 19096]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nope.  The PD isn't garbage because 10 are bad.  It's garbage because 67% of them openly admit that the PD's culture is one of silence, covering for and protecting those 10 bad cops.  You never get to that point in your analysis, which makes it a half-truth and just a false statement.

PDs aren't bad because they have 10 shitbags.  They are bad because they have a culture that protects the shitbags at the expense of the people they are supposed to protect.

Well you must be a very wily attorney indeed, because, you completely distorted the numbers that you yourself presented a few pages back.  Less than half-truth, I'd say.

Before starting, I'll remind you again it was in my earliest post that I completely support police reform and fully-independent IA reviews, however it happens.

So here are numbers from YOUR link that you didnt bother to show:

* It is sometimes acceptable to use more force than legally allowable to control someone assaulting an officer:  75% disagree or strongly disagree

* The code of silence is an essential part necessary to good policing:  83% disagree or strongly disagree

* Whistleblowing is not worth it:  75% disagree or strongly disagree

* Your PD takes a tough stance on improper behavior:  93% agree to strongly agree

 

 

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Well you must be a very wily attorney indeed, because, you completely distorted the numbers that you yourself presented a few pages back.  Less than half-truth, I'd say.

Before starting, I'll remind you again it was in my earliest post that I completely support police reform and fully-independent IA reviews, however it happens.

So here are numbers from YOUR link that you didnt bother to show:

* It is sometimes acceptable to use more force than legally allowable to control someone assaulting an officer:  75% disagree or strongly disagree

* The code of silence is an essential part necessary to good policing:  83% disagree or strongly disagree

* Whistleblowing is not worth it:  75% disagree or strongly disagree

* Your PD takes a tough stance on improper behavior:  93% agree to strongly agree

 

 

 

Keep reading the report.  The questions that ask not what they believe, but the ones that ask what they DO.  Paints a pretty clear picture: 1) a majority of cops know that culture is wrong, but 2) they participate in it anyway.

I don't give a fuck in the guy in the German army believed that it was wrong to march jews onto the trains.  What matters is whether he actually did it, or protected those who did.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Brisketexan

[52-80 19096]

You can critique it's a self survey.  Their answers are naturally biased.  Just like if you were to ask yourself if you're a saintly person...

But:

(1) Theres no evidence of a widespread conspiracy to keep things suppressed

(2) It is a human nature to protect your "kind" - in any circumstances, for any cohort.  And most importantly

(3) A tendency to protect your kind DOES NOT EQUATE to "we beat black people for sport"

[Willfully Horn 7916]

I have yet to see a reasonable linkage of BLM to Marxism. Nor have I seen BLM condoning rioting and violence. I’d like to learn if I am misinformed. After all, I accept that a group ought not be judged by the actions of a few, 
 

When an organization’s actions merit a negative reputation, consequences follow. The tipping point on policing has been reached. Defend the Constitution, and change gonna come.

[hayden_horn 11360]

12 minutes ago, Hate said:

Thanks?

are you at all interested in actually discussing the topic?

because riots are the result of a thing. not the cause of a thing. you know that right?

[Brisketexan 104628]

9 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yep its a free country...so far.  I wouldn't boo anything, but stupid NFL fan gonna stupid NFL fan. at least both sides were orderly which was the point...which you missed.

 

No, you're making that point pretty clearly.  The most important thing is that everyone is orderly.  Not that we actually make some damned progress.  I mean, the clearest path to being orderly would be for everyone to just shut up and take it.....but that's not a good thing.

Your STATED point was ACTUALLY that "a shit ton of people don't care about bitching," so long as it's orderly -- and I posted a refutation of that point.  Don't move the goalposts.

Violent protests are bad.

Orderly public statements are bad.

That's some pretty consistent messaging we're getting from a large percentage of society.  If you want to turn that into "hey, at least we should he happy that the racists didn't violently attack the unity line at the game".....well, ok then.  That doesn't speak particularly well for you -- you're getting damned close to "man, it's a lot better than when we used to lynch 'em for being mouthy, be grateful."

[52-80 19096]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Keep reading the report.

Police officers often treat whites better than blacks and other minorities.

Black officer response:  51.3% agree.  48.7% disagree

Minority officer response:  23.4% agree.  76.6%

Police officers are more likely to use physical force against blacks and other minorities
than against whites in similar situations.

Black officer reponse:  57.1% agree.  42.9% disagree.

Minority officer response:  12.5% agree.  87.5% disagree.

 

If you think this shows a concerted effort to be consciously discriminatory... i'd say you're full of shit, or playing dumb. 

In a perfect world, all the answers would be 100% disagree.

Answers split down the middle suggests it is definitely contentious... but not definitive.

Maybe you want to suggest that all the non-black minorities are racist against black too?

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by 52-80

[VABuckeye 2472]

BLM could separate themselves from the rioters further.  Stop the tactics that involve harrasment of citizens.  They'll be more likely to be sympathetic to your cause.  Stop screaming into peoples faces and using a megaphone in their face.  It's insulting and demeaning and just makes them want you to go away and diminishes your message.

Don't protest during hours when the rioters are out (after curfews).  Make it clear that the rioting is not something you encourage, participate in or embrace.  Not shouting burn it down would be a good start because apparently many people take that line literally and are in fact, burning it down.

Setup open public lines of communication where there can be real discussion and discourse.  Be open to listening and not shouting down anything that is viewed as not being 100% in lockstep with your thought process.  LLISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN.  This applies to anyone despite their views on the matter.

Edited September 18, 2020 by VABuckeye

[BabaYaga 15212]

7 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

I have yet to see a reasonable linkage of BLM to Marxism. Nor have I seen BLM condoning rioting and violence. I’d like to learn if I am misinformed. After all, I accept that a group ought not be judged by the actions of a few, 
 

When an organization’s actions merit a negative reputation, consequences follow. The tipping point on policing has been reached. Defend the Constitution, and change gonna come.

Happened with the TEA party as well.  A group concerned with spending and fiscal responsibility now inexorably linked in the minds of many with racism and white supremacy.   

[Brisketexan 104628]

5 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

You can critique it's a self survey.  Their answers are naturally biased.  Just like if you were to ask yourself if you're a saintly person...

But:

(1) Theres no evidence of a widespread conspiracy to keep things suppressed

(2) It is a human nature to protect your "kind" - in any circumstances, for any cohort.  And most importantly

(3) A tendency to protect your kind DOES NOT EQUATE to "we beat black people for sport"

1) they literally admit that their culture -- to not rock the boat and report shit. It's not ambiguous.

2) yeah, it's human nature....but it's particularly dangerous in law enforcement, and it's become an actual ingrained and proud part of their culture, inflating itself beyond the normal baseline.

3) straw man.  Again, the PD as a whole doesn't "beat black people for sport."  But a certain subset of them does, and profiles, and cuffs a black kid when they would just have a conversation with a white kid.  But THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM.  The problem is points 1-2 -- the culture that enables, supports, and protects that subset.  I don't know how many times I need to say that, whether my English is bad, or what.

All cops don't beat black people for sport.  Only some cops do.  But a MAJORITY of cops get in line with a culture that protects the cops who beat black people for sport.

All Germans didn't want to murder jews.  Only some cops did.  But the German people and the German army got in line with a culture that pursued the final solution.  The final solution wouldn't have happened without their support, both active and tacit.

Bad policing wouldn't happen without the support of their fellow officers, both active and tacit.

[BabaYaga 15212]

2 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

BLM could separate themselves from the rioters further.  Stop the tactics that involve harrasment of citizens.  They'll be more likely to be sympathetic to your cause. 

Don't protest during hours when the rioters are out (after curfews).  Make it clear that the rioting is not something you encourage, participate in or embrace.  Not shouting burn it down would be a good start because apparently many people take that line literally and are in fact, burning it down.

Setup open public lines of communication where there can be real discussion and discourse.  Be open to listening and not shouting down anything that is viewed as not being 100% in lockstep with your thought process.  LLISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN.  This applies to anyone despite their views on the matter.

Holding my breath.  When the ambulance comes, someone please feed the dogs and turn off the lights.....

[BabaYaga 15212]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

All Germans didn't want to murder jews.  Only some cops did.  But the German people and the German army got in line with a culture that pursued the final solution.  The final solution wouldn't have happened without their support, both active and tacit.

There it is.  Been waiting patiently....

[dcar00 14035]

9 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

I have yet to see a reasonable linkage of BLM to Marxism. Nor have I seen BLM condoning rioting and violence. I’d like to learn if I am misinformed. After all, I accept that a group ought not be judged by the actions of a few, 
 

When an organization’s actions merit a negative reputation, consequences follow. The tipping point on policing has been reached. Defend the Constitution, and change gonna come.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

 

[52-80 19096]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

There it is.  Been waiting patiently....

congratulations brisket!

 

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

3 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Police officers often treat whites better than blacks and other minorities.

Black officer response:  51.3% agree.  48.7% disagree

Minority officer response:  23.4% agree.  76.6%

Police officers are more likely to use physical force against blacks and other minorities
than against whites in similar situations.

Black officer reponse:  57.1% agree.  42.9% disagree.

Minority officer response:  12.5% agree.  87.5% disagree.

 

If you think this shows a concerted effort to be consciously discriminatory... i'd say you're full of shit, or playing dumb. 

In a perfect world, all the answers would be 100% disagree.

Answers split down the middle suggests it is definitely contentious... but not definitive.

Maybe you want to suggest that all the non-black minorities are racist against black too?

 

What do you think that shows?  You think that having a 50-50-ish divide in the opinion of black officers speaks WELL of policing?  Really?  Do you think that even the lower, but still not insignificant, responses of white officers speaks well of policing?

And keep reading.  Get to the questions about culture, and about what happens to "rats," and whether cops let shit slide.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, 52-80 said:

congratulations brisket!

 

 

Blah blah blah.  It's an analogy about how the crime isn't just the action, it's about being complicit.

I could say the same thing about the white majority in the south at the turn of the century.  Maybe only 10% liked to turn out for a good old lynching....but the remainder tacitly accepted it, and kept voting for the white sheriff who threw open the jail doors to let the mob take the black prisoner to the hanging tree.

Bad actors include those who are complicit. In fact, the complicit are the engine that allows the bad actors to do real and lasting damage.  Without them, the bad actors are a fringe that gets stopped soon after they get started

[dcar00 14035]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, you're making that point pretty clearly.  The most important thing is that everyone is orderly.  Not that we actually make some damned progress.  I mean, the clearest path to being orderly would be for everyone to just shut up and take it.....but that's not a good thing.

Your STATED point was ACTUALLY that "a shit ton of people don't care about bitching," so long as it's orderly -- and I posted a refutation of that point.  Don't move the goalposts.

Violent protests are bad.

Orderly public statements are bad.

That's some pretty consistent messaging we're getting from a large percentage of society.  If you want to turn that into "hey, at least we should he happy that the racists didn't violently attack the unity line at the game".....well, ok then.  That doesn't speak particularly well for you -- you're getting damned close to "man, it's a lot better than when we used to lynch 'em for being mouthy, be grateful."

Fuck you and your race baiting bullshit.

and your point was that 20K or whatever the number was NFL fans booed as the precursor to arguing that a shit ton of people have a problem with bitching.  put 100K ramdom US citizens in there and then you might have a point.  you have no idea or data that proves a large percentage of the population has a problem with people peacefully protesting/bitching.

who the fuck said orderly public statements are bad?  not me.  as long as it isn't "fire" in crowded theater its all good.

file a petition to protest 365 days a year for all I care(BLM, KKK, gun rights, whoever). just let me know so I can avoid the area and that the people who are protesting are safe.

I didn't move any goalposts but you set up big strawmen on a daily basis.  you need to stop with the calling people racists at the drop of a hat

[VABuckeye 2472]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

you need to stop with the calling people racists at the drop of a hat

A friend does that.  I'm not sure he fully undertands what the word means.

[52-80 19096]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What do you think that shows?  You think that having a 50-50-ish divide in the opinion of black officers speaks WELL of policing?  Really?  Do you think that even the lower, but still not insignificant, responses of white officers speaks well of policing?

Did I stutter?  100% disagree means it is unanimous there is no problem.  no racial bias. kumfuckingbaya.

50%/50% doesnt mean there is 50% bias.  it means it is DISPUTED, and the responses is completely BALANCED.

It is a flawed design of survey not to do this in linear scale, but rather in a binary manner....

But the fact that only 10% bin in the STRONGLY agree/disagree category, means the opinions are not that FAR along the POLAR ends of the spectrum.

 

 

 

 

Nobody , ever, in this 100 page thread says policing is perfect.  We all agree it is far from it.  But it is also FAR from your claim of whatever catastrophe you seem to conjure.

 

[BabaYaga 15212]

7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Fuck you and your race baiting bullshit.

and your point was that 20K or whatever the number was NFL fans booed as the precursor to arguing that a shit ton of people have a problem with bitching.  put 100K ramdom US citizens in there and then you might have a point.  you have no idea or data that proves a large percentage of the population has a problem with people peacefully protesting/bitching.

who the fuck said orderly public statements are bad?  not me.  as long as it isn't "fire" in crowded theater its all good.

file a petition to protest 365 days a year for all I care(BLM, KKK, gun rights, whoever). just let me know so I can avoid the area and that the people who are protesting are safe.

I didn't move any goalposts but you set up big strawmen on a daily basis.  you need to stop with the calling people racists at the drop of a hat

Put him on ignore - he's back on his bi-polar, critical race theory, fucking soap box

[Willfully Horn 7916]

23 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

 

Thanks for the information. I know that the three ladies whose tweets began the BLM movement were taught Marxist politics, but  I have read their 13 principles, and didn’t understand which ones promoted Marxism. I admit I am not knowledgeable about what Marxism actually entails. The principles came across like liberal Protestantism, to me. I’d appreciate being shown the Marxism therein, though I’ll have to get up to speed.

I read the conclusions of an academic study on the social media postings of BLM, which described the posts that were political, as non controversial. I assume Marxist politics are controversial.

 

https://csdd.northwestern.edu/documents/working-papers/alvin-tillery_what-kind-of-movement-is-black-lives-matter-the-view-from-twitter.pdf

Edited September 18, 2020 by Willfully Horn
Grammar

[BabaYaga 15212]

1 minute ago, Willfully Horn said:

Thanks for the information. I know that the three ladies whose tweets began the BLM movement were taught Marxist politics, but  I have read their 13 principles, and didn’t understand which ones promoted Marxism. I admit I am not knowledgeable about what Marxism actually entails. The principles came across like liberal Protestantism, to me. I’d appreciate being shown the Marxism therein, though I’ll have to get up to speed.

I read the conclusions of an academic study on the social media’s a postings of BLM, which described the posts that were political, as non controversial. I assume Marxist politics are controversial.

 

https://csdd.northwestern.edu/documents/working-papers/alvin-tillery_what-kind-of-movement-is-black-lives-matter-the-view-from-twitter.pdf

Read or listen to the Gulag Archipeligo lectures and their inception and layer on tactics today.  

[Hate 20103]

are you at all interested in actually discussing the topic?
because riots are the result of a thing. not the cause of a thing. you know that right?

Absolutely, but it has been said many times that riots are what leads to change if the peaceful protest don’t. You pointed out that it’s been 29 years since the “Rodney King” riots and nothing had changed. What happened?

[Willfully Horn 7916]

I will, Baba. Thanks.

[52-80 19096]

The correct way to conduct that survey would be:

"How fairly is XX treated - from 0-10"

NOT "is this as fair as that, agree or disagree"

The collected responses would be much more instructive

Edited September 18, 2020 by 52-80

[hayden_horn 11360]

3 minutes ago, Hate said:

Absolutely, but it has been said many times that riots are what leads to change if the peaceful protest don’t. You pointed out that it’s been 29 years since the “Rodney King” riots and nothing had changed. What happened?

um, i pointed out it has been 29 years since the rodney king beating. you focus on the riots. i focus on the police beating people up.

 

[BabaYaga 15212]

6 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

I will, Baba. Thanks.

The Gulag Archipelago

Book by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

[VABuckeye 2472]

Full circle.  Now it's being compared to the Holocaust and the inaction of oppressed and terrorized people to take action when the vast majority of them didn't even know the atrocities that were taking place.

[davidg 4029]

So are there any more peaceful/violent/protests/riots going on or is it just arguing the same stuff back and forth now?

[VABuckeye 2472]

Yes

[BabaYaga 15212]

3 minutes ago, davidg said:

So are there any more peaceful/violent/protests/riots going on or is it just arguing the same stuff back and forth now?

same same....

[Brisketexan 104628]

31 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Fuck you and your race baiting bullshit.

and your point was that 20K or whatever the number was NFL fans booed as the precursor to arguing that a shit ton of people have a problem with bitching.  put 100K ramdom US citizens in there and then you might have a point.  you have no idea or data that proves a large percentage of the population has a problem with people peacefully protesting/bitching.

who the fuck said orderly public statements are bad?  not me.  as long as it isn't "fire" in crowded theater its all good.

file a petition to protest 365 days a year for all I care(BLM, KKK, gun rights, whoever). just let me know so I can avoid the area and that the people who are protesting are safe.

I didn't move any goalposts but you set up big strawmen on a daily basis.  you need to stop with the calling people racists at the drop of a hat

1 -- you stated that a shit ton of people don't care about bitching, so long as it's peaceful. I pointed to an example of a substantial group - this wasn't a crowd of 10 people, it was a crowd of thousands -- who publicly acted contrary to your stated position.  And we can find many more -- people who indeed are offended by the very idea of black people daring to speak up.   Shit, read the comments on any news story about a peaceful protest or public statement.  It ain't just one guy.  It's a cascade.  Sorry that refutation upsets you, but it doesn't make it any less true -- a shitload of Americans are pissed off that black people are even speaking up.

2) I'm glad that YOU don't feel that way.  Really, I am.  It's what we need.

3) but plenty -- as in not one or two, but a sizable number, enough to launch into an audible chorus of boos, for example -- feel otherwise.  What pisses them off isn't violence, it's the message itself, even when presented in the most milquetoast verbiage of "unity."  That's a problem.  It speaks poorly of our society.