Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

[Buzzrock 15136]

Po­lice, re­searchers, may­ors and com­mu­nity lead­ers see a con­flu­ence of forces at work in the homi­cide spike. In­sti­tu­tions that keep city com­mu­ni­ties safe have been desta­bi­lized by lock­down and protests against po­lice. Lock­downs and re­ces­sion also mean ten­sions are run­ning high and streets have been emp­tied of eyes and ears on their com­mu­ni­ties. Some at­tribute the rise to an in­crease in gang vi­o­lence.

[dcar00 14971]

10 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Paywall.

wow not good for Chicago being at 1 or 2 on both charts

[bad_teammate 13524]

[Foosters 18280]

27 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Afgfyygvbrfvg....no proof/surly leftist 

 

 

Leftists on surly argue that Chicago doesn't suffer from high rates of violent crime? 

[JimmyJames 12271]

32 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Afgfyygvbrfvg....no proof/surly leftist 

 

 

Says the bootlicker. 

[bad_teammate 13524]

They do better when they argue against strawmen.

(Also, is "leftist" an attempt to start a political argument?)

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Wait does that include Che? Do I need to burn all my Che shirts now? Fuck.

Nah just use em as toilet paper.

[Buzzrock 15136]

It’s just a tactic.

[Foosters 18280]

Cops don't learn good

Hands up . . . shoot?

 

[Cajun 11777]

7 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/08/01/louisville-cuban-community-rally-support-la-bodeguita-de-mima/5562669002/

...The release states that La Bodeguita de Mima was forced to close July 24 during a demonstration that shut down East Market Street, at which several protesters presented Martinez with the list of demands and said he "better put the letter on the door so your business is not f*cked with."

The restaurant remained closed the next two days because "management and staff were concerned about safety," according to the release. "30+ staff members (mostly immigrants) were unable to earn a paycheck."

On Thursday, a small group of protesters returned to the restaurant after seeing Martinez's post about the demands on Facebook. While there, one protester smashed a flower pot outside the business, while the rest spoke with Martinez and other employees about why the demands are needed.

The demands and an attached contract, which were created by local organizers and activists, ask NuLu business owners to:

Adequately represent the Black population of Louisville by having a minimum of 23% Black staff;

Purchase a minimum of 23% inventory from Black retailers or make a recurring monthly donation of 1.5% of net sales to a local Black nonprofit or organization;

Require diversity and inclusion training for all staff members on a bi-annual basis;

And display a visible sign that increases awareness and shows support for the reparations movement.

Phelix Crittenden, an activist who works with Black Lives Matter Louisville, said the demands and related "NuLu social justice health and wellness ratings" were not meant to be a threat but were instead intended to start a conversation with owners about how their businesses can better reflect and support Black people....

Crittenden, who also founded the organization Blacks Organizing Strategic Success, said several NuLu business owners have volunteered to sign the contract created by the protesters and are open to discussing their roles in the gentrification of the area, which has undergone hundreds of millions of dollars in development in recent years.

A row of LMPD officers stand across from dozens of people protesting for Breonna Taylor Friday afternoon on East Market. Dozens were arrested after officers' ordered them to stop blocking East Market Street.

Police use the tables that were blocking East Market to write arrest reports as 76 people were arrested after protesting for Breonna Taylor and blocking East Market Street and refusing to leave Friday afternoon. Charges were obstructing a highway and disorderly conduct. A few were charged with assault.

A list of demands for business owners propped up in downtown Louisville on July 24, 2020.

I'd say that's extortion all right.

LMAO

Such peaceful people.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 hours ago, Hate said:

Yeah, didn’t happen - seven

Well when you head is buried up your own ass it's hard to see anything.

[Dahobbs 18324]

Guys, come on. No politics. Also, please avoid the use of facts. It is best if we stick to unverified opinions, innuendo, and rumors. For instance, did you know that Austin barely survived a massive riot over the weekend? It is only because of the brave actions of police, placing snipers on every building and multiple officers at every corner, that the massive caravan of paid professional protesters from the west was turned back. Keep in mind, this post is completely politically neutral. 

[William_Cannon 86]

Just factual reporting of events.
No, DT is the Antichrist or Antifa is a Marxist invasion.
 
Not that hard.

Like CNN? What’s the point? people can get that from the news and any other social media platform. However, people come here for the assholes and opinions.

[Cajun 11777]

1 hour ago, William_Cannon said:

Like CNN? What’s the point? people can get that from the news and any other social media platform. However, people come here for the assholes and opinions.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Cajun

[sidis 10017]

On 7/26/2020 at 11:12 AM, Incredulity said:

Just factual reporting of events.

No, DT is the Antichrist or Antifa is a Marxist invasion.

 

Not that hard.

 

3 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Afgfyygvbrfvg....no proof/surly leftist 

 

 

Somewhat hard it would seem. 

[VABuckeye 2481]

From the you've got to be kidding me files.

Seattle protesters file federal lawsuit because protective gear is too expensive

Edited August 4, 2020 by VABuckeye

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Pussies every single one of them. Their parents should all be collectively bitch slapped continually for 48 hours, then presented with a bill for all the "peaceful protesting" aftermath these little dears have caused.  

Fuck em all. They've lost their legitimacy. If you side with them at this point, you're part of the problem.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[Hate 20249]

From the you've got to be kidding me files.
Seattle protesters file federal lawsuit because protective gear is too expensive

I fully expected that to be from The Onion, but alas it was real.

[ChickenSandwich 9959]

Attorneys involved need to surrender their Licenses 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, ChickenSandwich said:

Attorneys involved need to surrender their Licenses 

Nah, just make em live with the little deals for a while.....

[high side 3 way 54]

It’s mostly white trust fund kids protesting in Seattle/Portland. Who could have seen this coming?

[Dahobbs 18324]

Y'all are idiots. The Fox News article and complaint say nothing of "trust funds." Although the Fox News article makes it sound like an action for money, the plaintiffs are actually seeking an injunction to prevent the city of Seattle from violating their rights under the 1st, 4th, and 14th amendments. The fact that protective gear is expensive is just part of the explanation of how those rights are infringed by the City's actions, not part of a request for monetary relief. 

Anyway, here is an article with a bit more detail (Link) also, here is the complaint (Copy of Complaint) :

Quote

 

A lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Seattle alleges that protesters in the Black Lives Matter movement are being priced out of their civil rights by the prohibitive costs of defending themselves against police violence.

The five plaintiffs in the lawsuit allege that the purchase of helmets, gas masks, protective clothing, goggles, gloves, boots, umbrellas and other gear they say are needed to fend off police pepper spray, less-lethal projectiles and other crowd-dispersal tools has impinged on their civil right to peacefully protest.

All five — Jessica Benton, Shelby Bryant, Anne Marie Cavanaugh, Alyssa Garrison, and Clare Thomas — say they were the victims of “indiscriminate” police violence during protests on Capitol Hill on June 25. They claim that repeated use of force by SPD during more than six weeks of civil unrest over systemic racism and police brutality against people of color has made it impossible to exercise their right to gather and protest without personal protective gear, which isn’t cheap.

“Because protesters now must purchase expensive equipment to be assured that they will be able to protest safely, the indiscriminate use of weapons by SPD implicates equal protection,” the lawsuit alleges.

“Because the Seattle Police Department has acted above and outside the law in
dispensing its unbridled force, and the City has failed to prevent same, the
government effect is to establish a de facto protest tax: individual protesters
subjected to SPD’s unabated and indiscriminate violence now must purchase cost-prohibitive gear to withstand munitions — even when peacefully protesting — as a condition to exercising their right to free speech and peaceable assembly,” wrote attorney Talitha Hazelton of Renton, who filed the lawsuit Monday.

The Seattle City Attorney’s Office will “look into these new claims and intend(s) to defend the City in this matter,” said spokesperson Dan Nolte.

The lawsuit, assigned to Chief Judge Ricardo Martinez, seeks a temporary restraining order prohibiting the department from using force or crowd-dispersal munitions. That order would join an injunction against police violence against peaceful protesters already in place in a separate lawsuit filed by Black Lives Matter Seattle-King County last month before U.S. District Judge Richard Jones.

Another federal judge, U.S. District Judge James Robart, has temporarily prevented a new City Council ordinance blocking SPD’s use of tear gas and other crowd-control weapons from taking effect until the court and others have had a chance to review its impact on a seven-year-old overhaul of the Seattle Police Department’s policies, procedures and data-collection resulting from a 2012 consent-decree with the Department of Justice. DOJ civil-rights lawyers had sued SPD over findings that its officers routinely engaged in excessive use of force.

Meanwhile, Black Lives Matter Seattle-King County has asked Jones to hold SPD in contempt of the injunction issued in his court last month after weeks of clashes between mostly peaceful protesters and police.

Jones found that police, in earlier protests, violated the civil rights of thousands of Seattle protesters by deploying tear gas, concussion grenades, blast balls, and streams of pepper-spray to disperse otherwise peaceful crowds.

Police have reacted after isolated but destructive incidents of arson and vandalism by some involved in the protests, and say dozens of officers have suffered injuries from thrown objects and fireworks.

Jones has set a hearing on that motion for Aug. 25.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Dahobbs

[BabaYaga 15625]

On 8/3/2020 at 6:26 PM, Foosters said:

Leftists on surly argue that Chicago doesn't suffer from high rates of violent crime? 

Quit being obtuse.  Posters on Surly argue ad nauseum that there is virtually no correlation between the protests, the attacks on the police, and the corresponding rise in crime across these communities. 

[Foosters 18280]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Quit being obtuse.  Leftists on Surly argue ad nauseum that there is virtually no correlation between the protests, the attacks on the police, and the corresponding rise in crime across these communities. 

Damn, that's a lot to read into a statement that claimed leftists believe there's no proof that Chicago has a high crime rate

Out of curiosity, what was your handle on TOS before you were run off? 

[BabaYaga 15625]

9 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Damn, that's a lot to read into a statement that claimed leftists believe there's no proof that Chicago has a high crime rate

Out of curiosity, what was your handle on TOS before you were run off? 

Cute.  Unfortunately, that wasn't the point you either are unwilling or unable to grasp.  It's not Chicago's high crime rate in a vacuum, it's the recent statistical spike in crime both in Chicago and across the rest of the country in the wake of the relentless attacks on the police.

Quote

This is happening as most types of crime have not gone up at all over the past few months...."Homicides, on the other hand, are up because violent criminals have been emboldened by the sidelining of police, courts, schools, churches and an array of other social institutions"

 

[davidg 4057]

Maybe they should just get an unplanned donation from some cops.

[bad_teammate 13524]

There's a politics forum for ranting about "leftists" and I'm not sure this is it.

[MillerEP 30907]

www.facebook.com/73949382289/videos/702225707014052/

 

 

 

[Foosters 18280]

Quote

This is happening as most types of crime have not gone up at all over the past few months...."Homicides, on the other hand, are up because violent criminals have been emboldened by the sidelining of police, courts, schools, churches and an array of other social institutions"

You realize that is a pro-law enforcement opinion, right? That's not a factual statement. Do you think the interrogation went like this:

Q: So, we know you're good for it. Just tell us man, why'd you do it?

A:  I was emboldened by the sidelining of police, courts, schools, churches and an array of other social institutions.

My opinion is that homicides are up because police are too busy pouting about losing their hero status and firing projectiles into the faces of protesters. 

[Dahobbs 18324]

23 minutes ago, Foosters said:

You realize that is a pro-law enforcement opinion, right? That's not a factual statement. Do you think the interrogation went like this:

Q: So, we know you're good for it. Just tell us man, why'd you do it?

A:  I was emboldened by the sidelining of police, courts, schools, churches and an array of other social institutions.

My opinion is that homicides are up because police are too busy pouting about losing their hero status and firing projectiles into the faces of protesters. 

I assume homicides are up because people are out of work and tensions are high. The typical homicide is a crime of passion rather than an intricate plot. Heat of the moment crimes aren't likely to be influenced by what the cops are or are not doing. It would be interesting to see more data about this rather than conjecture. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Foosters 18280]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I assume homicides are up because people are out of work and tensions are high. The typical homicide is a crime of passion rather than an intricate plot. Heat of the moment crimes aren't likely to be influenced by what the cops are or are not doing. It would be interesting to see more data about this rather than conjecture. 

Yeah, my "opinion" was a sarcastic attempt to show that such proclamations are worthless.

[seven 1368]

4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I assume homicides are up because people are out of work and tensions are high. The typical homicide is a crime of passion rather than an intricate plot. Heat of the moment crimes aren't likely to be influenced by what the cops are or are not doing. It would be interesting to see more data about this rather than conjecture. 

Exactly this, it's amazing that people willfully ignore high unemployment as a factor. 

[Hate 20249]

Exactly this, it's amazing that people willfully ignore high unemployment as a factor. 

They should protest unemployment by burning down and vandalizing more places of business.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

10 hours ago, Hate said:

They should protest unemployment by burning down and vandalizing more places of business.

Funny how unemployment was at record level lows a mere 3 -4  months ago........  Chicago was still killing itself in record numbers....

 

EDIT:  Scratch 3-4 months ago, pre March, and pre March there were still record numbers of gun related incidents in Chicago, people don't suddenly start shooting each other. Criminals know cops are off the streets in the way they were pre covid, and BLM.  They're just taking advantage, and the results are piling up.  

Nah it's just people out of work, that's all it is..... I wonder how many  people involved in these shooting had jobs pre covid ?  I'd like to see the stat.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[Dahobbs 18324]

18 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Funny how unemployment was at record level lows a mere 3 -4  months ago........  Chicago was still killing itself in record numbers....

You think unemployment was at a record low in April? What planet are you on? 

Also, and just think about this, the whole point of this thread is that violent crime is up because of protests and calls to defund the police. But, those events didn't start until late May. Last I checked, causality still only flows one way temporally.  Assuming that is still true, haven't you just defeated your own argument? 

I'll wait. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

15 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You think unemployment was at a record low in April? What planet are you on? 

Also, and just think about this, the whole point of this thread is that violent crime is up because of protests and calls to defund the police. But, those events didn't start until late May. Last I checked, causality still only flows one way temporally.  Assuming that is still true, haven't you just defeated your own argument? 

I'll wait. 

Sure, fine,  before covid. I just threw out a number.  Before Covid Chicago was still killing itself, so unemployment isn't a pat answer for people killing other people.

[Dahobbs 18324]

21 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Sure, fine,  before covid. I just threw out a number.  Before Covid Chicago was still killing itself, so unemployment isn't a pat answer for people killing other people.

Did you seriously believe I or anyone else was contending that the only reason murder exists is because of Covid/unemployment (maybe Covid motivated Cain!)? I said it explained the increase over the last few months. It certainly explains it better than the "sidelining of the police" as argued above.

What, pray tell, is the reason why you believe Chicago has had issues? 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Did you seriously believe I or anyone else was contending that the only reason murder exists is because of Covid/unemployment (maybe Covid motivated Cain!)? I said it explained the increase over the last few months. It certainly explains it better than the "sidelining of the police" as argued above.

What, pray tell, is the reason why you believe Chicago has had issues? 

Criminals are people who take advantage of situations presented. Knowing cops aren't out in the force they were makes them bolder, and more apt to attempt to get away with more. Pretty much human nature.

The people willing to kill were probably unemployed before all the covid shit erupted.  They're typically career criminals.  

[Dahobbs 18324]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Criminals are people who take advantage of situations presented. Knowing cops aren't out in the force they were makes them bolder, and more apt to attempt to get away with more. Pretty much human nature.

The people willing to kill were probably unemployed before all the covid shit erupted.  They're typically career criminals.  

So, your argument is that Chicago's problem existed before cops were sidelined, so sidelining the cops caused Chicago's problem? Yeah, sure, that follows. 

A very large portion of murders are a result of domestic or personal disputes, not desire for monetary gain. It would be interesting to break down the recent homicide surge (not universal mind you, just some areas of some cities: https://www.vox.com/2020/8/3/21334149/murders-crime-shootings-2020-coronavirus-pandemic) and see which buckets grew the most. As far as I know, that data isn't available anywhere (yet). 

 

[washparkhorn 9973]

Speaking of vigilantes - Southern California Conflict gets karen's boyfriend popped hard (after she throws an iced coffee at a guy who consider spoiling a California burrito is sacrilege. You can't smash an iced coffee against some guy just eating a burrito - in Southern California. There are rules.

https://www.foxla.com/news/bloody-brawl-breaks-out-after-woman-throws-coffee-in-mans-face-for-not-wearing-mask

 

 

 

 

‍

3

Spoiler

Bloody brawl breaks out after woman throws coffee in man’s face for not wearing mask

Bill Melugin23 hours ago

article

MANHATTAN BEACH, Calif. - A bloody brawl broke out in Manhattan Beach after a couple confronted two men for not wearing masks, causing an argument that turned violent when the woman threw coffee into the face of one of the men.

Mask wearing confrontation in Manhattan Beach

A fistfight breaks out in Manhattan Beach after a couple confronts two men for not wearing masks while eating their lunch outside. And the bloody clash was all caught on video.

The brawl was all caught on video, recorded by James Hernandez’s bodycam, which he says he has to wear as a Trump supporter.

“Because I wear a trump hat I’ve had a lot of confrontations, I guess,” he said.

His camera was rolling on Friday when he says he and his friend, Matthew Roy, were eating burritos outside without masks on, and a couple criticized them.

“Y’all need to be wearing masks,” the woman can be heard saying.

“No we don’t,” Hernandez replies. “We’re locals here but were on the other side of the fence, we don’t believe in this stuff.”

“I hadn’t even gotten to start eating the burrito yet before someone wanted to give me a mask lecture,” Roy said.

“I guess the guy really wanted to impress his girlfriend because I was pretty dismissive, I thought when I turned my back on them they would just move on, but he wanted to stand there and engage me.”

Roy says the woman then stuck her middle finger in his face, and tensions escalated further until she threw her coffee in his face. Roy immediately gets up, and begins punching the woman’s boyfriend in response.“She decided to slam her coffee into my head and that’s when I decided to get up and beat up her boyfriend,” Roy said.“I got a few licks in and I have brothers at home and as soon as the gentleman or the gentler man said stop, I did, I backed off.” The bloodied man called police and reported he’d been assaulted. Police responded, but no arrests were made.

“They really wanted to force us to put a mask on, they just thought we were killing their grandma,” Hernandez said. “Nobody really believes in the masks, but everybody is scared of Ken and Karen and I’m not, I don’t care anymore,” Roy said.

The men told FOX 11 they declined to press charges.

Manhattan Beach PD told FOX 11 no arrests were made, and no charges are pending.

California Rule No. 1 - No messing around with someone's burrito out here. It is just not done in polite company. 

 

 

[washparkhorn 9973]

2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

So, your argument is that Chicago's problem existed before cops were sidelined, so sidelining the cops caused Chicago's problem? Yeah, sure, that follows. 

A very large portion of murders are a result of domestic or personal disputes, not desire for monetary gain. It would be interesting to break down the recent homicide surge (not universal mind you, just some areas of some cities: https://www.vox.com/2020/8/3/21334149/murders-crime-shootings-2020-coronavirus-pandemic) and see which buckets grew the most. As far as I know, that data isn't available anywhere (yet). 

 

Chicago has been and always will be a city of ill-repute. I lived there for a couple of years. Great city culture, but the rot goes deep. It is a Dark Knight type culture out there. 

At the tippy top - it is swell. Northern burbs are run well (the best high school is New Trier for you parents out there). There is a lot of grit in Chicago - and too much grime. Great people from all over the world.

It is a miniaturized globe in one cold-ass city (people walk underground in the winter through tunnels/retail/food underground). Great place to live with enough money. Old city with chronic old city problems. and no haste to fix them because the city works for the ones that matter. 

Chicago would be a tough place to live during Covid. The lake is more of a barrier and there are miles upon miles of density. I felt a little trapped in when I lived there -- and I was traveling a lot for work while there. It was a long ride to the airport to get on a plane. It was a long drive to nature.

Stuck in a crap apartment in a crowded building must be gnawing on people's nerves. With the unbelievable levels of unemployment/underemployment out there right now and rent past due for many - that is a powder keg. Those forced evictions will be tense. 

Covid and its effects are just frosting on top of the cake for Chicagoans. 

[washparkhorn 9973]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Criminals are people who take advantage of situations presented. Knowing cops aren't out in the force they were makes them bolder, and more apt to attempt to get away with more. Pretty much human nature.

The people willing to kill were probably unemployed before all the covid shit erupted.  They're typically career criminals.  

Chicago polices high crime areas as if they are prison yards. Cabrini Green (horrible experiment gone way wrong) was avoid by Chicago Police and Fire. If they needed to go in, they went in with overwhelming force. After the secret jail was surfaced, I am surprised anyone trust the police. It is going to take time to fix Chicago. 

[BabaYaga 15625]

15 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

I assume homicides are up because people are out of work and tensions are high. The typical homicide is a crime of passion rather than an intricate plot. Heat of the moment crimes aren't likely to be influenced by what the cops are or are not doing. It would be interesting to see more data about this rather than conjecture. 

Then why aren't they up across all locations?  Homicides are rising in striking numbers in areas where the local LE has been berated and sidelined.  Nor is this new.  We saw it after Ferguson as well.  Baltimore.  It was termed the "Ferguson Effect" by the St Louis Police chief in 2014.  It's been debated back and forth, but here we are seeing it yet again., so to attribute this to COVID is utterly absurd.  

Criminals know policing and patrolling is down.  They know the LE will not put themselves in harm's way and they take advantage of the situation.  Many of these are of course emboldened gang attacks that spill into the streets, decimating the local communities.  Often minority communities.  

The rising carnage in the inner city is the consequence of this official repudiation of the criminal-justice system. The current tolerance and justification for vandalism and violence; the silencing of police supporters; and police unwillingness to intervene, even when their own precincts are assaulted—all send a clear message to criminals that society has lost the will to prevent lawlessness. In Minneapolis, shootings have more than doubled this year compared to last. Nearly half of all those shootings have occurred since George Floyd’s death.

[Dahobbs 18324]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Then why aren't they up across all locations?  Homicides are rising in striking numbers in areas where the local LE has been berated and sidelined.  Nor is this new.  We saw it after Ferguson as well.  Baltimore.  It was termed the "Ferguson Effect" by the St Louis Police chief in 2014.  It's been debated back and forth, but here we are seeing it yet again., so to attribute this to COVID is utterly absurd.  

Criminals know policing and patrolling is down.  They know the LE will not put themselves in harm's way and they take advantage of the situation.  Many of these are of course emboldened gang attacks that spill into the streets, decimating the local communities.  Often minority communities.  

The rising carnage in the inner city is the consequence of this official repudiation of the criminal-justice system. The current tolerance and justification for vandalism and violence; the silencing of police supporters; and police unwillingness to intervene, even when their own precincts are assaulted—all send a clear message to criminals that society has lost the will to prevent lawlessness. In Minneapolis, shootings have more than doubled this year compared to last. Nearly half of all those shootings have occurred since George Floyd’s death.

Facts? Murder is up in certain cities, but overall crime is down, violent crime is down, and property crime is down (see vox link in my previous post for a good overview of data). If this were the work of career criminals now feeling safe to loot common citizens, you'd expect a rise in burglaries, robberies, and thefts. Instead, you see a rise in one particular crime: homicide. Besides, not all cities that have had significant protests have seen increases in murder. Dallas, Oakland, Las Vegas, Newark, Baltimore, and Austin are either seeing typical or below typical # of homicides. Would I be shocked to learn that rolled back policing has caused some of the increase? No. But the data simply doesn't support the narrative that murders are up primarily because criminals feel safe. As I said earlier, it would be really interesting to see a breakdown of the type of murders we've seen this year. Are we looking at murders related to underlying crime like robberies (which, given that crime like that is down, would indicate that crimes are unusually deadly, but not unusually prevalent)? Or are we looking murders committed in the heat of the moment or as a result of personal grievances?  

But, sure, rather than actually analyze data, jump to conclusions that fit your pre-determined narrative. Conjecture and chest beating are fun after all. 

[bolverk 30324]

KXAN story and interview of APD homicide detective.

https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/why-is-austins-murder-rate-on-the-rise/

[ChickenSandwich 9959]

11 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Facts? Murder is up in certain cities, but overall crime is down, violent crime is down, and property crime is down (see vox link in my previous post for a good overview of data). If this were the work of career criminals now feeling safe to loot common citizens, you'd expect a rise in burglaries, robberies, and thefts. Instead, you see a rise in one particular crime: homicide. Besides, not all cities that have had significant protests have seen increases in murder. Dallas, Oakland, Las Vegas, Newark, Baltimore, and Austin are either seeing typical or below typical # of homicides. Would I be shocked to learn that rolled back policing has caused some of the increase? No. But the data simply doesn't support the narrative that murders are up primarily because criminals feel safe. As I said earlier, it would be really interesting to see a breakdown of the type of murders we've seen this year. Are we looking at murders related to underlying crime like robberies (which, given that crime like that is down, would indicate that crimes are unusually deadly, but not unusually prevalent)? Or are we looking murders committed in the heat of the moment or as a result of personal grievances?  

But, sure, rather than actually analyze data, jump to conclusions that fit your pre-determined narrative. Conjecture and chest beating are fun after all. 

Robberies and burglaries could also be down due to Covid because everyone has been stuck at home almost half a year, and many businesses have been closed or severely restricted. Stores won’t replace inventory from looting just be be looted again. (Not to mention adding all of the looting to the burglary and robbery statistics makes this point invalid as well). 
Gun violence and murders are clearly up in most major population centers.  With many spiking after G Floyd’s death. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[BabaYaga 15625]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

see vox link

VOX, lol.  You are utterly hopeless and just babbling at this point.  Pre-determined narrative.  Jesus man, look in the damn mirror. 

We saw the rise in homicides after Ferguson.  We saw it again in Baltimore after Freddy Gray.  We are seeing it again now after Flloyd in the cities demonizing their local LE.

 

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Murder is up in certain cities,

Which is the point

6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

you see a rise in one particular crime: homicide.

Again, the point

7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Besides, not all cities that have had significant protests have seen increases in murder.

Not the point.  This ins't about the location of protests, but how the city leadership is messaging the police.

And again, this is just too rich to not repeat...

10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

jump to conclusions that fit your pre-determined narrative......see vox link

 

[Captainant 28539]

@Dahobbsyoure fighting a losing battle. BLM == marxist terrorists now per marching orders from the president. Unless you can disprove that using Breitbart, andy ngo reporting, and infowars sourcing they won't believe you

Edited August 5, 2020 by Captainant

[Dahobbs 18324]

14 minutes ago, bolverk said:

KXAN story and interview of APD homicide detective.

https://www.kxan.com/news/crime/why-is-austins-murder-rate-on-the-rise/

Yeah, from June. There were other articles discussing an increase in murders that really started in the first three months of the year and then leveled off. Now, the numbers are actually in line with a typical year. 

9 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Robberies and burglaries could also be down due to Covid because everyone has been stuck at home almost half a year, and many businesses have been closed or severely restricted. Stores won’t replace inventory from looting just be be looted again. (Not to mention adding all of the looting to the burglary and robbery statistics makes this point invalid as well). 
Gun violence and murders are clearly up in most major population centers.  With many spiking after G Floyd’s death. 

Again, if career criminals feel emboldened due to lack of police presence, don't you think they'd be doing things to... and pay attention here... make money? For career criminals, murder isn't the goal, but rather an artifact of their profession. The point of crime for the career criminal is cash. 

I don't know that gun violence is clearly up, do you have any statistics on that? I do know that gun sales are up. 

[ChickenSandwich 9959]

BLM leaders don’t hide their Marxist indoctrination or training. Nothing to do with talking points.