Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

[Dahobbs 17437]

12 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

VOX, lol.  You are utterly hopeless and just babbling at this point.  Pre-determined narrative.  Jesus man, look in the damn mirror. 

We saw the rise in homicides after Ferguson.  We saw it again in Baltimore after Freddy Gray.  We are seeing it again now after Flloyd in the cities demonizing their local LE.

 

Which is the point

Again, the point

Not the point.  This ins't about the location of protests, but how the city leadership is messaging the police.

And again, this is just too rich to not repeat...

Why are career criminals emboldened to murder but not do things that actually make them money? Why is the rise in crime isolated to one particular type of crime rather than crime in general? You've made an assertion, now try to support it with facts and analysis. I know you can do neither because (1) you are allergic to facts, and (2) you are completely incapable of anything resembling rational analysis. 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, from June. There were other articles discussing an increase in murders that really started in the first three months of the year and then leveled off. Now, the numbers are actually in line with a typical year. 

Again, if career criminals feel emboldened due to lack of police presence, don't you think they'd be doing things to... and pay attention here... make money? For career criminals, murder isn't the goal, but rather an artifact of their profession. The point of crime for the career criminal is cash. 

I don't know that gun violence is clearly up, do you have any statistics on that? I do know that gun sales are up. 

Burglaries....spitballing here but much more difficult if everyone is staying at home. 
 

What stores are open for theft right now? When you shit the majority of businesses down for half a year, the business of crime will also slow. The parasite needs a healthy host. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Why are career criminals emboldened to murder but not do things that actually make them money? Why is the rise in crime isolated to one particular type of crime rather than crime in general? You've made an assertion, now try to support it with facts and analysis. I know you can do neither because (1) you are allergic to facts, and (2) you are completely incapable of anything resembling rational analysis. 

Do these crime statistics include all of the burglaries of hundred of businesses during the riots?  

[Dahobbs 17437]

Just now, ChickenSandwich said:

Burglaries....spitballing here but much more difficult if everyone is staying at home. 
 

What stores are open for theft right now?  

Robberies of homes? Of persons? Again, the theory is that murder is the rise because police are sidelined. Why would that happen? What does the career criminal gain from murder? Shouldn't we be seeing a massive rise in bank robberies? Robberies of people in their homes? 

[Dahobbs 17437]

Just now, ChickenSandwich said:

Do these crime statistics include all of the burglaries of hundred of businesses during the riots?  

You exaggerate the extent of the problem of the riots, but as far as I know, yes. They include reported crime. If you have a better listing of statistics, I'd love to see it. 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

When did the majority of murders go from crime of passion to crime of profit?

[Dahobbs 17437]

2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

When did the majority of murders go from crime of passion to crime of profit?

What profit is there in murder? Do you think we live in a John Wick world where there is a massive, secret worldwide assassin organization with its own currency? If the murder happens in connection with a robbery, that would make sense. But, as we just discussed, robberies are down. So, either (1) the robberies that are happening are for whatever reason significantly more likely to result in death or (2) something else is driving the increase in murders. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Dahobbs

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

What profit is there in murder? Do you think we live in a John Wick world where there is a massive, secret worldwide assassin organization with its own currency? If the murder happens in connection with a robbery, that would make sense. But, as we just discussed, robberies are down. 

You asked why career criminals weren’t taking advantage of the situation to make a profit when talking about increased murder and gun violence rates. 
 

I agree 100% with your paragraph here. 

[Dahobbs 17437]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-deaths-usa/personal-conflicts-biggest-cause-of-murders-in-u-s-idUSTRE64C53R20100513

Quote

 

Personal conflicts biggest cause of murders in U.S.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The first systematic, in-depth look at murder and suicide in the United States shows that personal conflicts are the major factor in such deaths, as opposed to random violence or other crime.

Guns are the most commonly used weapons in both murders and suicides, according to the analysis of data from 2007 released on Thursday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“The pattern that stands out the most is we see a lot of intimate partner violence, mental health problems and substance abuse,” said the CDC’s Debra Karch, who led the study.

While police and politicians may stress crime-fighting to try to lower murder rates, the study suggests that equipping people to better handle conflict may be more effective.

Karch and colleagues started collecting their data in 2003 and it so far covers just 16 states, so she says it cannot yet be used as either representative of the United States as a whole, or as a basis for predicting trends.

The researchers go beyond death certificates or police reports to try to find all the factors involved in a violent death, including substance abuse, personal problems and relationships.

The CDC estimates that 50,000 people die violently every year in the United States. Homicide is the second leading cause of death, after accidents, for 15- to 24-year-olds and the third leading cause of death for children aged 10 to 14, with suicide following right after in both age groups.

"For homicides and suicides, relationship problems, interpersonal conflicts, mental-health problems, and recent crises were among the primary precipitating factors," Karch and colleagues wrote in their report, available here

Some of the findings from the report:

* Firearms were used in more than 50 percent of suicides, with hanging or suffocation accounting for 23 percent and poisoning 18 percent.

* Firearms were used in 66 percent of homicides and 80 percent of murder-suicides.

* Suicide rates were higher among people aged 45 to 54 — a shift from previous years when the highest rates of suicide were among those over 80.

* Murder rates were more than three times higher among males than females. One third of women who were murdered were killed by a current or former spouse or partner, compared to five percent of men killed by intimate partners.

* Blacks made up the majority of homicide deaths and had the highest rate of homicide of any racial or ethnic group.

* Military suicides were frequently linked to a physical health problem.

 

 

[BabaYaga 15208]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Why are career criminals emboldened to murder but not do things that actually make them money? Why is the rise in crime isolated to one particular type of crime rather than crime in general? You've made an assertion, now try to support it with facts and analysis. I know you can do neither because (1) you are allergic to facts, and (2) you are completely incapable of anything resembling rational analysis. 

Oh,I don't know.  Maybe, just maybe your faulty assumption is faulty.  Many speculations are that these are gang related and turf wars spilling out into the streets

As for facts?  Again, you are just babbling.  This isn't speculation about which crimes are rising.  There is a clear statistical increase in homicides.  As already stated, in Minneapolis (for example), shootings have more than doubled this year compared to last. Nearly half of all those shootings have occurred since George Floyd’s death.  Similar trends popping up in many other locales.  AS THEY DID years back after Ferguson.  In St Louis.  In Baltimore.  In NY.  Now we are seeing a spike again in the wake of another tragedy.  How are you not getting this?  

[Captainant 27442]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

Many speculations are that these are gang related and turf wars spilling out into the streets

"Many people are saying" "People tell me" 

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

As for facts?  Again, you are just babbling.  This isn't speculation about which crimes are rising.

[Dahobbs 17437]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Oh,I don't know.  Maybe, just maybe your faulty assumption is faulty.  Many speculations are that these are gang related and turf wars spilling out into the streets

As for facts?  Again, you are just babbling.  This isn't speculation about which crimes are rising.  There is a clear statistical increase in homicides.  As already stated, in Minneapolis (for example), shootings have more than doubled this year compared to last. Nearly half of all those shootings have occurred since George Floyd’s death.  Similar trends popping up in many other locales.  AS THEY DID years back after Ferguson.  In St Louis.  In Baltimore.  In NY.  Now we are seeing a spike again in the wake of another tragedy.  How are you not getting this?  

Let's just assume everything you said above is true (the factual portions, not the analysis). Doesn't it suggest that increase in violence surrounding these events is not the result of career criminals feeling emboldened by the sidelining of police, but rather rising racial tensions and inter-personal conflict? If career criminals were the problem, you'd be seeing an increase in crime that could actually make them money. That isn't the pattern you've alleged or the pattern we've seen. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Dahobbs

[bolverk 29397]

25 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, from June. There were other articles discussing an increase in murders that really started in the first three months of the year and then leveled off. Now, the numbers are actually in line with a typical year. 

That's exactly what the APD detective said in that interview. Local murders were increasing prior to Covid, slowed down, and has picked back up. 

[BabaYaga 15208]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

Let's just assume everything you said above is true (the factual portions, not the analysis). Doesn't it suggest that increase in violence surrounding these events is not the result of career criminals feeling emboldened by the sidelining of police, but rather rising racial tensions? If career criminals were the problem, you'd be seeing an increase in crime that could actually make them money. That isn't the pattern you've alleged or the pattern we've seen. 

You keep saying look at the numbers, then you ignore the damn numbers.  For the third time, look at the doubling of shootings in MN in the wake of Floyd's death?  Coincidence?  A city that has moved past defunding, and actively proclaiming they are going to completely disband the entire precinct.  It's getting so bad there are now roaming bands of citizen patrols in the city because the precinct burned to the ground and the neighborhoods are left vulnerable.

We have seen this before, so again you assertion that this is COVID related is asinine.  There was 16% spike in homicide from 2014 to 2015 in 56 of the nation’s largest cities after Ferguson.  This isn't up for debate.  Only the correlative impact.  But pre-covid spikes identical to what we are seeing today all but rule that hypothesis out.  In Baltimore after Freddie Gray, police simply stop patrolling certain areas, resulting in a wave of killings.  It reached an all-time high of 342 deaths.  The most the city had ever seen.  We know this because the number of field interviews – instances in which the police approach someone for questioning – dropped 70 percent.

 

Quote

“Immediately upon the riot, policing changed in Baltimore, and it changed very dramatically,” says Donald Norris, an emeritus professor at the University of Maryland Baltimore County. “The outcome of that change in policing has been a lot more crime in Baltimore, especially murders, and people are getting away with those murders.”

Police officials acknowledge the change. "In all candor, officers are not as aggressive as they once were, pre-2015. It’s just that fact," says acting Police Commissioner Gary Tuggle, who took command of Baltimore's police force in May.

 

[Dahobbs 17437]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

You keep saying look at the numbers, then you ignore the damn numbers.  For the third time, look at the doubling of shootings in MN in the wake of Floyd's death?  Coincidence?  A city that has moved past defunding, and actively proclaiming they are going to completely disband the entire precinct.  It's getting so bad there are now roaming bands of citizen patrols in the city because the precinct burned to the ground and the neighborhoods are left vulnerable.

We have seen this before, so again you assertion that this is COVID related is asinine.  There was 16% spike in homicide from 2014 to 2015 in 56 of the nation’s largest cities after Ferguson.  This isn't up for debate.  Only the correlative impact.  But pre-covid spikes identical to what we are seeing today all but rule that hypothesis out.  In Baltimore after Freddie Gray, police simply stop patrolling certain areas, resulting in a wave of killings.  It reached an all-time high of 342 deaths.  The most the city had ever seen.  We know this because the number of field interviews – instances in which the police approach someone for questioning – dropped 70 percent.

 

 

I have no idea what point you're making any more. Everything you just wrote is consistent with violence caused by rising racial tension and inter-personal conflict, not predicated on career criminals feeling emboldened by the sidelining of police as initially asserted. 

[BabaYaga 15208]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I have no idea what point you're making any more. Everything you just wrote is consistent with violence caused by rising racial tension and inter-personal conflict, not predicated on career criminals feeling emboldened by the sidelining of police as initially asserted. 

Ok, so you are just willfully blind and not even interested in any opinions other than your own preconceived ideas.  Got it.  Guessing you glossed right over this part...

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

“Immediately upon the riot, policing changed in Baltimore, and it changed very dramatically,” says Donald Norris, an emeritus professor at the University of Maryland Baltimore County. “The outcome of that change in policing has been a lot more crime in Baltimore, especially murders, and people are getting away with those murders.”

Police officials acknowledge the change. "In all candor, officers are not as aggressive as they once were, pre-2015. It’s just that fact," says acting Police Commissioner Gary Tuggle, who took command of Baltimore's police force in May.

 

[Dahobbs 17437]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Ok, so you are just willfully blind and not even interested in any opinions other than your own preconceived ideas.  Got it.  Guessing you glossed right over this part...

 

It is strange that you don't provide the source of your quotes. I saw it, but my point was that you're now making a different argument than the original assertion. At any rate, Baltimore did show a jump in murders starting in 2015. Prior to that point it looks like it averaged between 200 and 300. After that point it has averaged ~340. So far this year it has seen 196, which is right in line with its number since 2015. So, apparently for Baltimore at least, the protests and surrounding issues haven't resulted in any increase in murder. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Dahobbs

[BabaYaga 15208]

10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I saw it, but my point was that you're now making a different argument than the original assertion

To say this confirms you are utterly lost and just flailing around with partisan blinders on.  You started with the regurgitated talking point that this was all COVID driven.  Then you punted on that and moved on to violence in general.  Then moved on to "racial tensions", which can conveniently mean whatever the fuck you want it to mean.  Anything but the most direct, historically verifiable, and inconvenient:  that this narrative of continually attacking the police is resulting in a spike in shootings and homicides (Again, 16% spike in 56 major cities post Ferguson, the chaos on MN now, etc).  You won't touch it because you can't touch it, because to do so would be an admission that your actions are causing a direct degradation of the vulnerable communities you profess to care so much about. 

And Baltimore, who's own police chief ADMITTED was seeing passive policing because of concerns of public backlash - was directly responsible for the spike in violence, verified again by a SEVENTY percent drop in LE/public questioning (read as "stops").  Well guess what, those stops are back up to normal levels, so what did you say again about the current murder rate?  

[clapclapclap 9000]

At least it's American Graffiti

Edit:  Lots more at this account:

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by clapclapclap

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

At least it's American Graffiti

Edit:  Lots more at this account:

 

I wonder what the score of the football game was ?  I'm sure Dahobbs wants to know as well.  I mean that's all that was, just some post game traffic or some such...  The peaceful protesters were just asking for directions probably.

[Dahobbs 17437]

14 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

To say this confirms you are utterly lost and just flailing around with partisan blinders on.  You started with the regurgitated talking point that this was all COVID driven.  Then you punted on that and moved on to violence in general.  Then moved on to "racial tensions", which can conveniently mean whatever the fuck you want it to mean.  Anything but the most direct, historically verifiable, and inconvenient:  that this narrative of continually attacking the police is resulting in a spike in shootings and homicides (Again, 16% spike in 56 major cities post Ferguson, the chaos on MN now, etc).  You won't touch it because you can't touch it, because to do so would be an admission that your actions are causing a direct degradation of the vulnerable communities you profess to care so much about. 

You're really upset about something. I have no idea what. I don't even know what partisan side you believe I stand on. 

You made the following assertion: 

Quote

This is happening as most types of crime have not gone up at all over the past few months...."Homicides, on the other hand, are up because violent criminals have been emboldened by the sidelining of police, courts, schools, churches and an array of other social institutions"

(Post #837, FYI). You quoted something, but I don't actually know what because, again, you didn't include a link.

Onboard followed up with the assertion that "Criminals are people who take advantage of situations presented. Knowing cops aren't out in the force they were makes them bolder, and more apt to attempt to get away with more. Pretty much human nature." (Post #850). 

I've said that this explanation makes little sense. If criminals felt emboldened by lack of police presence, we should expect to see an increase in the type of targeted crimes that criminals profit from: robberies, burglaries, and thefts. It would make sense that a criminal could decide to rob a bank after observing that he is likely to succeed given reduced police presence. But  We aren't seeing that. Instead, the increase is limited to one particular type of crime, homicides. Again, that is a type of crime, particularly when committed in isolation of another crime like robbery, that is driven by inter-personal conflict (Prior Link). 

I've posited that part of the increase could be driven by financial desperation (and free time) as a result of pandemic (e.g., connection between poverty and crime). However, you indirectly raised another scenario that made sense to me: the increase in murders is a result of inflamed passions from racial tensions. You've even identified the pattern (event raising racial tensions followed by increase in murders).

Quote

And Baltimore, who's own police chief ADMITTED was seeing passive policing because of concerns of public backlash - was directly responsible for the spike in violence, verified again by a SEVENTY percent drop in LE/public questioning (read as "stops").  Well guess what, those stops are back up to normal levels, so what did you say again about the current murder rate?      

It's exactly the same as it has been since 2015? Doesn't that suggest that something else is drove the surge that started in 2015 and continues even in the face of re-increased police "stops"?

[Dahobbs 17437]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I wonder what the score of the football game was ?  I'm sure Dahobbs wants to know as well.  I mean that's all that was, just some post game traffic or some such...  The peaceful protesters were just asking for directions probably.

? I have no idea what triggered that particular incident. Every video you linked starts like 3 seconds before the truck drives off. There was collision with a motorcycle, some people approached the car, and then the guy drove off (over the motorcycle). There isn't any context to explain what was happening, if anything, beforehand. Hell, I don't even know how I'm supposed to know that it was associated with protests. It looks like a generic block party to me. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

? I have no idea what triggered that particular incident. Every video you linked starts like 3 seconds before the truck drives off. There was collision with a motorcycle, some people approached the car, and then the guy drove off (over the motorcycle). There isn't any context to explain what was happening, if anything, beforehand. Hell, I don't even know how I'm supposed to know that it was associated with protests. It looks like a generic block party to me. 

I didn't post it originally. I merely responded to it. Your post football traffic jam comment has just given me good material to troll for a while.  It's all in fun though.

[Dahobbs 17437]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I didn't post it originally. I merely responded to it. Your post football traffic jam comment has just given me good material to troll for a while.  It's all in fun though.

I'm sad for you that you think this clever and that point of my comparison flew so far over your head. 

[BabaYaga 15208]

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I've said that this explanation makes little sense.

Again, it doesn't matter if it makes sense to you, me, or anyone else.  This is a faulty assumption.  Homicide rates spiked after each police death and subsequent attacks to defund, disband, and generally attack the police.  We have the historical numbers to back this up localized by region and incident date.  You asked for "the numbers" and "the facts" and then completely ignore this aspect.  Then you make another faulty assumption by conflating homicides in general, across the entire nation, with what we are seeing in specific instances that I have already detailed.  This indicates you really have no idea what is going on or you are being disingenuous.  

Then this convenient pivot to "racial tensions", which can mean anything you want it to mean again completely ignores the landscape that facilitates tension of any kind:  a lack of LE presence.  Which again, the Police Chief admitted outright.  

[BabaYaga 15208]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm sad for you that you think this clever and that point of my comparison flew so far over your head. 

There's always that sophomoric mouth breather that thinks they are the smartest person in the class and wonders why everyone laughs at them.......

[workswithseed 2035]

34 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

At least it's American Graffiti

Edit:  Lots more at this account:

 

Fuck, I'm glad I don't live in those apartments anymore.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm sad for you that you think this clever and that point of my comparison flew so far over your head. 

I;m more sad for you thinking a riot in the streets is akin to a post football game traffic jam.

[workswithseed 2035]

24 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

? I have no idea what triggered that particular incident. Every video you linked starts like 3 seconds before the truck drives off. There was collision with a motorcycle, some people approached the car, and then the guy drove off (over the motorcycle). There isn't any context to explain what was happening, if anything, beforehand. Hell, I don't even know how I'm supposed to know that it was associated with protests. It looks like a generic block party to me. 

You can see on the very last video in that string is the motor cyclist goes through the parking lot to get in front of the truck.

Edited August 5, 2020 by workswithseed

[Dahobbs 17437]

10 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

There's always that sophomoric mouth breather that thinks they are the smartest person in the class and wonders why everyone laughs at them.......

Yeah, how does that feel? 

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

You can see on the very last video in that string is the motor cyclist goes through the Heavenly Donuts parking lot to get in front of the truck.

I saw that. Again, I have no idea why the motorcyclist did that. He went in front and then the truck appeared to accelerate and hit the motorcycle. I assume something happened before the videos started, but I really have no idea what. 

[Dahobbs 17437]

10 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I;m more sad for you thinking a riot in the streets is akin to a post football game traffic jam.

I never said that a violent riot is the same as a football game traffic jam. In fact, I expressly agreed with you that it would be different. Your original post that spawned the discussion said nothing of violence, you interjected that later. You may have intended it from the beginning, but isn't what you originally said. 

[BabaYaga 15208]

22 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, how does that feel? 

[Js1 85095]

56 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I;m more sad for you thinking a riot in the streets is akin to a post football game traffic jam.

You said people blocking highways was akin to being kidnapped.  

This ain’t the dunk you think it is. 

[high side 3 way 54]

2 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

At least it's American Graffiti

Edit:  Lots more at this account:

 

[Captainant 27442]

Are the tactics used by law enforcement fair game for this thread? Specifically their use of dragnet surveillance and how they lied about their blanket spying on the protesters?

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200801/16413745019/dhs-obtained-protesters-encrypted-messages-used-them-to-craft-intelligence-reports.shtml

Quote

A senior Department of Homeland Security official told a Senate committee earlier this month that the department had not collected, exploited or analyzed information from the electronic devices or accounts of protesters in Portland, Ore.

But an internal DHS document obtained by The Washington Post shows the department did have access to protesters’ electronic messages and that their conversations were written up in an “intelligence report” that was disseminated to federal law enforcement agencies, including the FBI, as well as state and local governments.

This news broke on July 31. On July 23, acting DHS undersecretary Brian Murphy told the Senate Intelligence Committee the agency's Intelligence and Analysis division had "neither collected nor exploited or analyzed information" obtained from "accounts" belonging to protesters or detainees.

Murphy had to have known his statements to the Intelligence Committee were false.

A DHS Open Source Intelligence Report dated six days before Murphy’s briefing to the committee shows that the I & A office analyzed messages that protesters exchanged on the Telegram messaging app. They discussed which routes to take during marches and how to avoid the police.

The messages quoted in the so-called "Open Source" report don't detail any planned wrongdoing. (Also: Telegram's encrypted messaging system cannot honestly be called "open source." It's not like viewing public accounts on social media, which is what "open source" usually means in this context.) Instead, the "analyzed" messages show protesters pointing out the obvious to each other. Walking towards or through residential neighborhoods draws less federal law enforcement attention. This makes sense because the feds are only there to defend the federal buildings located in downtown Portland. They're not in Portland to conduct normal law enforcement work Here's a representative quote:

“Seems they’re less inclined to go into residential neighborhoods which makes sense.”

And here's how those communications -- possibly obtained from an informant or undercover officer with access to the Telegram group -- were portrayed by DHS I&A.

[d]iscussing [...] TTPs [tactics, techniques and procedures] to evade law enforcement when being pursued…

The DHS has no business infiltrating groups participating in protected speech, just like it has no business compiling dossiers on journalists. Whatever pressure it may be feeling from an administration seemingly hellbent on portraying organic anti-police protests as organized antifa riots doesn't excuse these actions. The DHS may want to please its boss by bringing him some evidence of paid protesting, but it can't just ignore the Constitution until agents find what they're looking for.

 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

if the video and information is posted on a public forum why would you have a problem with the police using it as evidence in a crime?  If we are talking about phone confiscation without a warrant or a warrantless search of cell phone tower and GPS information etc. I understand.  If we are talking tik tok and instagram, or facebook public posts and groups that are open to all? fair game.

[Dahobbs 17437]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

if the video and information is posted on a public forum why would you have a problem with the police using it as evidence in a crime?  If we are talking about phone confiscation without a warrant or a warrantless search of cell phone tower and GPS information etc. I understand.  If we are talking tik tok and instagram, or facebook public posts and groups that are open to all? fair game.

I don't think you know what Telegram is (end-to-end encrypted messaging service). 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Dahobbs

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

was unfamiliar with Telegram.  I stand corrected

[krevo 142]

I still can't believe some dipshit tried to compare driving away from the stadium after a home game to marxists mobs surrounding vehicles who are trying to drive down a road.  I just want to go down the road freely.  I dont want to participate.  Don't block my vehicle and then get mad when I try to move around you.  Don't arm yourselves to shoot at me if I try to go around you. That is not protesting.  That is 100% the definition of terrorism.  Look up the fuckin definition, please.  Actually fuck that - I'll do it for you.

 

Quote

Terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. Terrorism has been practiced by political organizations with both rightist and leftist objectives, by nationalistic and religious groups, by revolutionaries, and even by state institutions such as armies, intelligence services, and police.

 

Also - if the purpose of blocking roadways and inciting violence or verbal intimidation is supposed to be the way to get people to notice whats being protested (as some other fuckin retard here suggested) that's not going to work out very well lol.  If you have to surround my car and yell obscenities at me to get me to notice what you're protesting - you're 100% assuring I don't side with you.

Edited August 5, 2020 by krevo

[Armybrat 40725]

Well Krevo, useful idiots gonna idiot.

[krevo 142]

While I'm on the topic - NOT participating in a protest against police brutality, for BLM, or for any anti-government / police defunding campaign does not automatically mean you subscribe to or support police brutality/are racist/are pro-police.  I keep hearing this same 'silence is violence' bullshit about how you can't just be silently against something, you have to be actively fighting against it.  What if I can't do that?  What if I actively support it financially or politically without screaming at people and blocking highways?

That is whole concept is complete horseshit and you all know it.  These people are hurting their own cause cause they keep letting their marxist bullshit philosophy show through.

[Captainant 27442]

13 minutes ago, krevo said:

I still can't believe some dipshit tried to compare driving away from the stadium after a home game to marxists mobs surrounding vehicles who are trying to drive down a road.  I just want to go down the road freely.  I dont want to participate.  Don't block my vehicle and then get mad when I try to move around you.  Don't arm yourselves to shoot at me if I try to go around you. That is not protesting.  That is 100% the definition of terrorism.  Look up the fuckin definition, please.  Actually fuck that - I'll do it for you.

Also - if the purpose of blocking roadways and inciting violence or verbal intimidation is supposed to be the way to get people to notice whats being protested (as some other fuckin retard here suggested) that's not going to work out very well lol.  If you have to surround my car and yell obscenities at me to get me to notice what you're protesting - you're 100% assuring I don't side with you.

1) Protesters are not mobbing cars just for funsies. Every notable case of protesters interacting with cars has been from a car driving into a crowd of protesters, typically driving around barricades set up by the protesters.

2) Blocking a road is not. fucking. violence.

3) By the definition of terrorism you provided, the feds are domestic terrorists for using violence and the threat of violence against peaceful protesters (shooting rubber bullets at moms, teargas at people with their hands up, etc) to achieve their political objective of red meat for the right and video clips for campaign ads.

[krevo 142]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

1) Protesters are not mobbing cars just for funsies. Every notable case of protesters interacting with cars has been from a car driving into a crowd of protesters, typically driving around barricades set up by the protesters.

2) Blocking a road is not. fucking. violence.

3) By the definition of terrorism you provided, the feds are domestic terrorists for using violence and the threat of violence against peaceful protesters (shooting rubber bullets at moms, teargas at people with their hands up, etc) to achieve their political objective of red meat for the right and video clips for campaign ads.

Blocking a road is basically acknowledging the fact that you're ready to start some shit with someone trying to use it.   When they try to use the road you're illegally blocking, you swarm their car and start being on it and screaming at them.  It's a recipe for creating violence from either side.  These morons know when they obstruct a roadway, someone is going to try and use it as they should.  

I didn't say anything about the government not being terroristic.  They absolutely are.  At least we agree on something.   

[Dahobbs 17437]

32 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Well Krevo, useful idiots gonna idiot.

You're right. You and @krevo are occasionally useful.

At any rate, as I've explained numerous times, I agree that a violent/aggressive mob swarming a car is not the same thing as a football game crowd (I guess it depends on the game?). What is roughly the same is a crowd peacefully (but without legal permit) marching down a road and obstructing the flow of traffic or a crowd peacefully sitting/standing in the middle of the road. I said, quite correctly, that it would be an exaggeration to compare those latter scenarios to "kidnapping" or "terrorism." I have no idea why y'all think this has to be a black and white issue where either all protests are violent mobs or none of them are.  

Edited August 5, 2020 by Dahobbs

[Cajun 11675]

58 minutes ago, krevo said:

 

 

 

Also - if the purpose of blocking roadways and inciting violence or verbal intimidation is supposed to be the way to get people to notice whats being protested (as some other fuckin retard here suggested) that's not going to work out very well lol.  If you have to surround my car and yell obscenities at me to get me to notice what you're protesting - you're 100% assuring I don't side with you.

There's a lot of common ground that I have with what these protestors claim they want (see my history of posting on "Heroes").

Problem with LEOs, in so many cases, is they use intimidation, become bullies, deprive people of freedom, and act in ways counter to the behavior that they expect from the rest of us mere citizens.  These mobs have taken all of those traits and cranked that shit up to eleven.  In essence, you've (the Royal "you") become what you hate and you are every bit as shitty, just going in the opposite direction.

Yeah, sorry, ya lost me.  And I don't think I'm unique.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Cajun

[Cajun 11675]

20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You're right. You and @krevo are occasionally useful.

At any rate, as I've explained numerous times, I agree that a violent/aggressive mob swarming a car is not the same thing as a football game crowd (I guess it depends on the game?). What is roughly the same is a crowd peacefully (but without legal permit) marching down a road and obstructing the flow of traffic or a crowd peacefully sitting/standing in the middle of the road. I said, quite correctly, that it would be an exaggeration to compare those latter scenarios to "kidnapping" or "terrorism." I have no idea why y'all think this has to be a black and white issue where either all protests are violent mobs or none of them are.  

Yeah, should have been in Fayettenam after Vince killed their fantasies.

Lat22 can attest to the things those nice hillbillies threatened us with.

My favorite, "Hey Longhorn!  I hope you fuckin' die tonight!!!"

[Mappable 37]

5 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

? I have no idea what triggered that particular incident. Every video you linked starts like 3 seconds before the truck drives off. There was collision with a motorcycle, some people approached the car, and then the guy drove off (over the motorcycle). There isn't any context to explain what was happening, if anything, beforehand. Hell, I don't even know how I'm supposed to know that it was associated with protests. It looks like a generic block party to me. 

12 seconds in the first video, Peaceful Protesters, attempt to communicate with the truck driver using morse code and a crow bar on his windshield.

[Dahobbs 17437]

14 minutes ago, Mappable said:

12 seconds in the first video, Peaceful Protesters, attempt to communicate with the truck driver using morse code and a crow bar on his windshield.

(1) Again, what establishes these are protesters?

(2) That occurred after the first collision with the motorcycle.

(3) Something happened that led to the motorcycle chasing down the truck.

Seriously, I have no way of judging what is happening here or why. We have no context for this video. Was this truck just passing through? Was he involved in a prior incident with the motorcycle? Had he driven through the area several times? 

Could this be an example of violent protesters lashing out at any car that dares drive near them? Sure. Could it be an example of a hit and run followed by attempted vigilante justice? Sure. There are a ton of other potential scenarios. I need something than a few videos that all start seconds before the interaction to judge . You should too. 

[Armybrat 40725]

If you don’t have a permit, stay the fuck off the streets and stop impeding traffic.

Those assholes are NOT winning any support for the BLM cause any more that the rioting looters & vandals, and that is a fact.

 

[Dahobbs 17437]

6 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

If you don’t have a permit, stay the fuck off the streets and stop impeding traffic.

Those assholes are NOT winning any support for the BLM cause any more that the rioting looters & vandals, and that is a fact.

 

You're free to dislike their actions and dismiss their cause. But that doesn't make peaceful disruptions of street traffic "kidnapping" or "terrorism."  Incidences of violence are another matter entirely.