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Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

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By clapclapclap
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Armybrat
Armybrat

Jesus Christ, you are so fucking wrong. I am goddamned done trying to talk to you rationionally.

blacklab
blacklab

You can post videos, some of which are inside tweets that have other content. Post a tweet that's all political content with a random static image, you're taking a day off like elguapo is I

clapclapclap
clapclapclap

Can y'all stop arguing in circles with BT and Brisket?  Make your point and move on.  Their whole game is to filibuster and spam a thread with endless posts until the vids, pics, and news they don't l

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,511

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Posted
6 hours ago, Captainant said:

Chiming back in to make sure yall are aware: per GAO, turns out DHS was acting without legal authority in Portland. So they were non-legal actors using force and the threat of force along with kidnapping to intimidate a civilian population and to coerce the state and local government into action.

Sounds like domestic terrorism to me

One would imagine that the federal government acting with physical violence outside the bounds of law would worry and bother people who claim that liberty is their primary value.

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4,141

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6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Then anyone outside your home with a weapon should face those charges first.

We have a real fucking problem with assholes slinging around guns to intimidate people/show what badasses they are/show how serious I am about my rights and such.  We have fetishized a serious fucking thing -- a tool that can easily take human life.  It's fucked up.

100% agree, and I’ve been living in homes with guns since literally the day I was born. OK, since literally the day they brought me and my Mom home from the hospital....

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Sgt Hulk

Sgt Hulk 14,428

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Posted
7 hours ago, MillerEP said:

Still moving into the burbs since last week. I personally don't think "Give us your house" is a good tactic to win people over either, but aside from disturbing the peace it looks largely non-violent. Also, kudos to whomever's Patreon this is, they've found a way to get paid to watch protesters.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.  As parents who raised these brain dead idiots the blame should not be pointed at them. They are stupid as fuck and don’t know any better blame their idiot ass parents 

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 5,059

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

One would imagine that the federal government acting with physical violence outside the bounds of law would worry and bother people who claim that liberty is their primary value.

If you are a true libertarian it does.  But don’t act like the government overstepping is unusual.  Our system does a better job protecting our rights after an overstep than it does before.

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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10,097

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4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

What these groups should do is just stroll through rich enclaves on the reg. Take a walk through River Oaks or the Park Cities. Make it a daily event. Those neighborhoods are serviced by public thoroughfares and sidewalks. Use them.

When are you giving up your house/job to the less privileged?

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TKthunder2

TKthunder2 5,059

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Ok, why do you think there are so few "true libertarians" around right now?

Likely because we don’t fit into either camps.  True Libertarianism is pretty straight forward on every issue except abortion rights.  Practical Libertarianism in the US has to make peace with the social contracts the rest of society has forced upon us (like public roads, schools, healthcare, etc) so when the police kill a black man for no reason that is a major violation of that social contract.  This why many Libertarians like myself want to disarm the police (though it wouldn’t have helped in GF’s murder) and support most reforms that take away power from the government (like the police).

Still in the “two wrongs don’t make a right” category, the protesters blocking the highways (also an agreed upon social contract that we pay taxes for), in addition to the vandalism, looting and many lesser violations also flies in the face of the deal Libertarians have with society.

Now obviously murder is far worse when comparing apples to apples but these lesser violations are more impactful on your day to day life (which is the goal obviously) but in both instances people’s liberty is being infringed upon so it’s hard to get a true Libertarian (like myself) to fully commit to a single side.  GF’s murder will face justice, but many of the looters and vandals will not and those property owners whose rights were infringed on will likely never be made whole through our justice system.

But if you want to know my stance, defunding the police for more targeted/quailed/unarmed (or lightly armed with tasers/clubs) professionals to deal with non violent segments of the our population (homeless, mentally infirm, elder, juveniles, traffic, parking, wellness checks) would be ideal.  That being said the anarchy in the streets, peaceful or otherwise should stop.  Your right to free speech ends as soon as it infringes on my rights and private property is second only to personal safety so it should also be respected. In these cases when it’s not, ironically it emboldens the police state supporters and allows many not participating in team politics to dismiss the movement as Brisket has previously stated.  I could type more but most people won’t read this far so I’ll just stop here.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,511

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47 minutes ago, TKthunder2 said:

Now obviously murder is far worse when comparing apples to apples but these lesser violations are more impactful on your day to day life (which is the goal obviously) but in both instances people’s liberty is being infringed upon so it’s hard to get a true Libertarian (like myself) to fully commit to a single side.  

I can see the push/pull, but if you look at the conversations here and elsewhere, people who regularly identify as "libertarian" don't really have a hard time committing to a single side and when one like Ammon Bundy commits to the anti-government side his fellows are... upset. It seems like the consistent thing to do would be to call out the continuing abuse of police power (it didn't end with the arrest of Floyd's killers) alongside the vandalism and looting, but that's not happening.

I don't have a real answer, but it's an interesting quandry.

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I could type more but most people won’t read this far so I’ll just stop here.

I appreciate your thoroughness! Thank you!

 

 

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9,973

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14 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Not that easy.  Brandishing means showing the weapon, or exhibiting it to another person, “in a rude, angry or threatening manner” or using it in a “fight or quarrel.”  Technically, one does not need to point the weapon at the other person.  It can even be concealed.  That's my point.  There is such a measure of discretion associated with this that even in the situation you are referencing, you could face charges.  

 

That's up to the DA and its charging decision. Know your local DA policies. My guess is they prefer police handle the situation. Vigilantism is third-worldish and a relic.

I wouldn't walk around with my shotgun. Too much time for someone to identify me as a target for violence. And it encourages sociopathic individuals to act on their worst instincts. Chilling out in your castle - however big or small - and waiting for the cops is a much better strategy for building occupants. Never let them see you sweat.  

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Enchubben

Enchubben 5,600

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3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Especially when it's right next to home. Makes you feel good, and warm.

This is why it’s important we march down river oaks and keep people up with drums and megaphones so they can locate and extinguish the fires. 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4,640

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21 hours ago, David Dennison said:

What these groups should do is just stroll through rich enclaves on the reg. Take a walk through River Oaks or the Park Cities. Make it a daily event. Those neighborhoods are serviced by public thoroughfares and sidewalks. Use them.

Definitely should further alienate the few that have the actual power and money to bring change. Like it or not, those folks make the rules. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,511

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12 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

If I alienate and irritate important people, they’ll fall inline and I’ll get my way!!  Let’s go irritate and intimidate them at their houses!!!

It would be interesting to see you and people like you attempt to make sincere arguments, because the constant sarcasm you guys use is childish, pointless, divisive, and poisonous.

The wealth class is already alienated from the poorer classes. That's the entire point of our enclaves. Those within the enclaves are not in-tune with the needs of the poorer classes and are not political or economic allies of the poorer classes. Again, that's the entire point of the enclaves.

The purpose can simply be to say, "FUCK YOU!" to people who are hostile to you and have essentially put you where you are. The idea that it is everyone else's job to cater to the feelings and whims of rich white people is a problem in itself.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4,640

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17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

have essentially put you where you are.

Interesting.  We see that differently. I see it as people who have worked and achieved that by being smarter, and harder working. I assume you think it’s all inherited. You live in the nice little villages around memorial iirc?  You get all that thru inheritance? 

It’s the American dream. Be smarter and work harder, and one day you can live in a place where unemployed fucksticks will march through your neighborhood, waking you up at all hours of the night, because life’s just so unfair.   Being poor sucks but there are many more variables than the color of your skin.  Huge poverty stricken white population in US out front should have told you. 
 

Rioter: “Let me guess, you work for Amazon right? Right?  And didn’t like your commute so you came and took this hood thru gentrification!”   
 

Productive member of society: “Yeah dipshit, I’m smarter and work harder than you.  World needs ditch diggers too, gtfo.”

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,511

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1 minute ago, fattyflattie said:

Interesting.  We see that differently. I see it as people who have worked and achieved that by being smarter, and harder working.

That is naive, but it also doesn't conflict with what I said.

If I am smarter and harder-working than you then it's even easier for me to put you in a lower position and to exploit you for my own benefit.

Quote

I assume you think it’s all inherited. You live in the nice little villages around memorial iirc?  You get all that thru inheritance? 

It's not simply about inheritance, but for many it is. Making that even worse is that those inheritance kids spend their lives with people like you telling them they hit a triple.

Quote

Productive member of society: “Yeah dipshit, I’m smarter and work harder than you.  World needs ditch diggers too, gtfo.”

"Productive"? What does "productive" mean, in your mind?

I can see why you live in the world of emotional sarcasm; your reasoning skills are underdeveloped.

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VABuckeye

VABuckeye 2,481

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

put you in a lower position and to exploit you for my own benefit.

The fuck is this supposed to mean?  By being an employer I provide opportunities for people to better themselves.  Exploit them for my benefit?  Fuck you.

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22,310

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

That is naive, but it also doesn't conflict with what I said.

If I am smarter and harder-working than you then it's even easier for me to put you in a lower position and to exploit you for my own benefit.

It's not simply about inheritance, but for many it is. Making that even worse is that those inheritance kids spend their lives with people like you telling them they hit a triple.

"Productive"? What does "productive" mean, in your mind?

I can see why you live in the world of emotional sarcasm; your reasoning skills are underdeveloped.

Priorities. Gosh. Taking responsibility for one’s own actions. Valuing some kind of family structure. Being held accountable for your own decisions. Valuing education. And hard work. 

Wait. Sorry. Those are the people risking their lives crossing the border and hiding in fear Of being deported and yet still work, on top of which they have to learn a second language. 
—————————————-
 

 that’s what the vast majority will be thinking. Not my opinion. Just sounding it out. The longer the riots go on and destruction happens the less the 87% of America will give a fuck. 

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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10,097

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6 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

It would be interesting to see you and people like you attempt to make sincere arguments, because the constant sarcasm you guys use is childish, pointless, divisive, and poisonous.

The wealth class is already alienated from the poorer classes. That's the entire point of our enclaves. Those within the enclaves are not in-tune with the needs of the poorer classes and are not political or economic allies of the poorer classes. Again, that's the entire point of the enclaves.

The purpose can simply be to say, "FUCK YOU!" to people who are hostile to you and have essentially put you where you are. The idea that it is everyone else's job to cater to the feelings and whims of rich white people is a problem in itself.

That's an irrational, emotional statement made out of hurt, not out of reason.

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Cajun

Cajun 11,776

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

It would be interesting to see you and people like you attempt to make sincere arguments, because the constant sarcasm you guys use is childish, pointless, divisive, and poisonous.

 

LMAO!!!!  Holy shit!

And winner of the Most Self-Unaware/Take My Advice I Won't Be Using It Award is (drumroll)..........................................................................

 

Image 8-15-20 at 9.42 PM.jpeg

Edited by Cajun
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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,511

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5 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Are you going to continue to paint everything with a broad stroke from your high and mighty judgemental viewpoint?

I guess you don't really believe the things you were saying, that's ok. :)

6 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Life's a bitch.....  you should ask to get off the fry line, and move up to burgers.

If the attitude those of us with wealth/power/capital have is "fuck you, you're less than me" then we deserve everything they're doing now and more.

It's inhuman.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,511

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1 hour ago, Cajun said:

LMAO!!!!  Holy shit!

And winner of the Most Self-Unaware/Take My Advice I Won't Be Using It Award is (drumroll)..........................................................................

Sarcasm is a little spice you mix in. The problem is when you make it your rhetorical main course, which is very common here.

The reality is that exploitation is real and exploitation leads to disparity and inequality and disparity/inequality leads to unrest. If we lie to ourselves about the reality of exploitation we find ourselves looking at unrest and being shocked/horrified/aghast and telling ourselves it's a matter of personal morality instead of a simple social inevitability.

Luckily for us, our protesters/rioters aren't really harming people all that much and most of the harm being done could be easily addressed with proper social and government action (from repairing buildings to making small business owners whole). This could go a different direction where there are rising body counts, and we all should hope it never comes to that.

But what we shouldn't do is ignore the lessons of history and pretend we can lecture away an inevitable social and economic upheaval. It's staring us in the face.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4,640

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6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This could go a different direction where there are rising body counts, and we all should hope it never comes to that.

We should hope it doesn’t come to that. But if it does, I’m putting my money on the 98% of the population that aren’t in the streets.  The people who have actual things worth protecting. 

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