Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

[DigglerontheHoof 21183]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

What @DigglerontheHoof? Come out and tell me how it's totally peaceful protesters burning shit up. Even Brisket said the that they weren't protesters. 

It's rage and I get it.  I feel like burning shit to the ground and I'm a white dude.  Cops keep killing at will with zero consequences.  The only difference I'd make, if I were them, is to go to the suburbs and start burning white people out.  

[Brisketexan 105077]

5 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Burning down and destroying a person's business who had absolutely nothing to do with the situation is not the way to handle it. 

Is it the way to handle it?  No.  The way to handle it is....go with me here....for the cops to not act like fucking jackbooted powertrippers who are above the law.

But this absolutely has everything to do with the situation.  Society as a whole (because that's who cops work for) are abusing, over and over, certain segments of society.  When pushed beyond the breaking point, those segments eventually break in a blind rage, lashing out in every direction, destroying everything they can touch, because that's what "rage" does.  It is DEFINED by its irrationality.

If person X abuses a dog, that dog is eventually going to snap and bite person X....and everyone else who gets close enough to get bitten.  Because that's what pure animal rage does.  We (our employees, acting on our behalf and in our name) should stop abusing the dog.  Just, you know, maybe we should try that.

[markstanco 12571]

You dont really believe all those people are there because they are beyond some breaking point  do you?  I think most in not nearly all of society doesnt like the police shootings, no matter the skin color.  But those "most" who arent attending riots think that is a ridiculous rebuttal that will get absolutely nothing done (except destroy innocent lives in the process and create no income for employees of these businesses).  There will always be dumb cops doing dumb things even if laws pass that they must be held accountable for their actions to the same standards as the general public. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21183]

4 minutes ago, markstanco said:

You dont really believe all those people are there because they are beyond some breaking point  do you?  I think most in not nearly all of society doesnt like the police shootings, no matter the skin color.  But those "most" who arent attending riots think that is a ridiculous rebuttal that will get absolutely nothing done (except destroy innocent lives in the process and create no income for employees of these businesses).  There will always be dumb cops doing dumb things even if laws pass that they must be held accountable for their actions to the same standards as the general public. 

[52-80 19147]

we shall continue to burn down brisketexan's house until the jackbooted powertrippers submit to the law

[markstanco 12571]

He will totally understand and say it was justified and deserved. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

Because apparently all of society is racist and is keeping people down.  Never mind personal responsibility.

[Brisketexan 105077]

1 minute ago, markstanco said:

You dont really believe all those people are there because they are beyond some breaking point  do you?  I think most in not nearly all of society doesnt like the police shootings, no matter the skin color.  But those "most" who arent attending riots think that is a ridiculous rebuttal that will get absolutely nothing done (except destroy innocent lives in the process and create no income for employees of these businesses).  There will always be dumb cops doing dumb things even if laws pass that they must be held accountable for their actions to the same standards as the general public. 

If you're talking about demonstrations happening weeks/months after the triggering event, maybe.  But in the spontaneous uprising afterwards, I know it makes you uncomfortable, but there are indeed that many people who are just fucking pissed and at the breaking point.  Whole neighborhoods, whole communities, ready to ignite into a conflagration of rage.

You think "most in society" don't like police shootings?  You aren't paying attention -- listen to the masses with "just follow orders!" and "what about black on black crime?" and "back the blue, they're heroes!"  You WAY overestimate the public opposition to brutal policing.  A shitload of America LIKES IT. 

Things aren't going to change via:

- the cops agreeing "you know, we probably need to fix some shit"

- the current political class that happens to be in charge isn't going to do shit -- shit, they've doubled down on LAW AND ORDER!  SEND IN THE TROOPS!

So.....where does that leave the people who get abused and crushed by this shit?  What are they supposed to do?  Keep hoping?  When you tell people "fuck you" at every turn, laughing at their powerlessness, it is INEVITABLE that a good chunk of them eventually explode with a "no....fuck YOU!!" and start wrecking shit.

We have built and filled a fucking tinderbox, and we keep lighting it, and then you bitch about "fire isn't the way to solve this!"  THEN STOP THE FIRE BEFORE IT STARTS.  You have more voice and power than the shat-upon people in the lousy neighborhoods in Kenosha.  Use it.  I am.  I have no shame whatsoever to tell you that part of my motivation for wanting the cops to stop this utter bullshit is selfish: I KNOW that continuing this way will lead to more explosions of rage and violence.  I own property, I do business downtown - I'd like this community to operate in a way that minimizes the risk of those things being set on fire.  There is a selfish aspect to my motivation, and that's okay.  I APPEAL to your selfishness.  If you hate the idea of angry people burning shit down indiscriminately, you should be utterly dedicated to the task of stopping the bullshit that is driving them to that.

 

[Brisketexan 105077]

6 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

we shall continue to burn down brisketexan's house until the jackbooted powertrippers submit to the law

 

5 minutes ago, markstanco said:

He will totally understand and say it was justified and deserved. 

 

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

Because apparently all of society is racist and is keeping people down.  Never mind personal responsibility.

Read my post above.  Then read it again.

I would prefer that we, as a society, avoid having shit done IN OUR NAME (and yes, "all of society" is responsible for how the cops act -- they are literally our employees), so as to avoid setting off situations where people MIGHT burn down my house.  

And good job absolutely LYING about what I have said over and over.  I have never said that burning my house, or a car lot, or a Wendy's, is "justified and deserved."  It's not -- but it is EXPECTED and PREDICTABLE.  It is the 100% guaranteed result when you fuck over people over and over.  They explode into indiscriminate rage.

And after all of that.....the problem is defined as.....people in an indiscriminate rage, and not the fucking systems that repeatedly get a pass to keep doing the exact things that we all know will push a people into indiscriminate rage.

God you fuckers are dense.

[VABuckeye 2472]

Brisket,

The angry people burning shit down have (for the most part IMO) absolutely nothing to do with the cause.  They're people that just want to burn shit.  And loot shit.  And harm people.  Because at their core they are not good people.

[Brothahorn 10087]

17 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

It's rage and I get it.  I feel like burning shit to the ground and I'm a white dude.  Cops keep killing at will with zero consequences.  The only difference I'd make, if I were them, is to go to the suburbs and start burning white people out.  

Are you ready to give up your house/business for the cause? 

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Is it the way to handle it?  No.  The way to handle it is....go with me here....for the cops to not act like fucking jackbooted powertrippers who are above the law.

But this absolutely has everything to do with the situation.  Society as a whole (because that's who cops work for) are abusing, over and over, certain segments of society.  When pushed beyond the breaking point, those segments eventually break in a blind rage, lashing out in every direction, destroying everything they can touch, because that's what "rage" does.  It is DEFINED by its irrationality.

If person X abuses a dog, that dog is eventually going to snap and bite person X....and everyone else who gets close enough to get bitten.  Because that's what pure animal rage does.  We (our employees, acting on our behalf and in our name) should stop abusing the dog.  Just, you know, maybe we should try that.

1. Rabid dogs get put down. So probably not the best analogy. Just saying.

2. Everything you said makes on a emotional level. But the reality is that the people who will get hurt the most are the ones who can least afford it. 

3. The violent outbursts didn't work in '67, '68, '92, '14 x 2, '15, and it's not working in '20. It can be rationalized at will, but the end results are not there. Because as long as you do that, you are playing the state's game. 

4. The changes will come from the voting booth, not from directionless, emotional outrage.

I'm responding to you because you typically take the time to make a reasoned point. Even if I don't always agree.

[Brisketexan 105077]

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

Brisket,

The angry people burning shit down have (for the most part IMO) absolutely nothing to do with the cause.  They're people that just want to burn shit.  And loot shit.  And harm people.  Because at their core they are not good people.

Okay.

You don't know much about rage, or collective public demonstrations of rage.  It's not like these are a unique or new thing, or a thing that only happens in America.  They have happened all over the world, throughout history.  This is how they go.  And they are all triggered by the same thing -- crushing oppression without change or apology that leaves a group feeling frustrated and powerless.  It is pure human nature.

[Brisketexan 105077]

1 minute ago, Brothahorn said:

Are you ready to give up your house/business for the cause? 

1. Rabid dogs get put down. So probably not the best analogy. Just saying.

2. Everything you said makes on a emotional level. But the reality is that the people who will get hurt the most are the ones who can least afford it. 

3. The violent outbursts didn't work in '67, '68, '92, '14 x 2, '15, and it's not working in '20. It can be rationalized at will, but the end results are not there. Because as long as you do that, you are playing the state's game. 

4. The changes will come from the voting booth, not from directionless, emotional outrage.

I'm responding to you because you typically take the time to make a reasoned point. Even if I don't always agree.

1 -- you're dead right.  The people acting out now will absolutely suffer in the short term.  They always do.  Again, this isn't a rational decision or set of actions here.  It's rage.  By definition, not rational.

2 -- yes.  100% this.  This is entirely emotional.  And yes, the short-term harm will be to the people who can lease afford it.  It's fucking awful.

3 -- it's not about them working.  It's about NOTHING ELSE working.  When all else has failed, and shit just gets worse no matter what you do, you just fly into a blind rage.  And yes, the state will eat it up, strap on their tactical gear, and get to go play even more "Marines in Fallujah HOOAH GIT SOME!" than they usually do.  The violent cop boners are at full staff, no doubt.

4 -- It's the only place they CAN come from.  But they won't.  They haven't, and they won't.  Because we the people LIKE the way it is right now.  Want to know how I know?  Check the voting booth results -- we keep voting for the same things.  This is how we WANT IT.

Which leads us back to points 1-3.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Where does the change lie?  Not in the RESULTS of the voting booth, but in the people who actually go into the voting booths.  Until we the people decide that we want things to change, they won't.  And we have demonstrated, at every possible turn, that we are mighty satisfied with the way cops presently operate.  The enemy is us.

[52-80 19147]

12 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Because apparently all of society is racist and is keeping people down.  Never mind personal responsibility.

check out these absolute dense racists

 

 

[VABuckeye 2472]

Ah, ok.  The you're not as smart or as enlightened as me argument.  Get it.  Very dismissive.

[Brisketexan 105077]

3 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Ah, ok.  The you're not as smart or as enlightened as me argument.  Get it.  Very dismissive.

No, I just truly don't understand how you completely dismiss the idea of communal rage when it's literally written throughout history.  Not everyone who erupts and decides to wreck shit "is a bad person with badness in their hearts."  The initial outburst is actually almost always the people closest to the pain and injury, lashing out as any and all human beings are wont to do.

It's so easy to casually conclude "don't need to pay any attention -- those are all bad guys who are bad.  Crush 'em all."  But it's just not true.

[VABuckeye 2472]

That isn't my conclusion.  My conclusion is that there are people mixed in who simply want anarchy and want to destroy shit.  They care absolutely nothing about the cause or the matter at hand.  Unfortunately, many BLM aren't helping because they want to be as disruptive as possible and are aiming their rage at people and businesses who might otherwise be sympathetic to their cause but are being backed into a corner when they decide to come into their neighborhoods protesting.  

So, you end up with two disruptive groups and a collective that will quickly become tired of what's going on and will turn a deaf ear at some point.

My point is that it's time for real discourse and communication.  The shouting, the looting and the disruption needs to come to an end at some point soon and real discussion needs to occur.  Right now it is absent.

[Brothahorn 10087]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

4 -- It's the only place they CAN come from.  But they won't.  They haven't, and they won't.  Because we the people LIKE the way it is right now.  Want to know how I know?  Check the voting booth results -- we keep voting for the same things.  This is how we WANT IT.

Which leads us back to points 1-3.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Where does the change lie?  Not in the RESULTS of the voting booth, but in the people who actually go into the voting booths.  Until we the people decide that we want things to change, they won't.  And we have demonstrated, at every possible turn, that we are mighty satisfied with the way cops presently operate.  The enemy is us.

You are absolutely correct. It is on us. And we really have shown as a society/nation that the status quo is more than okay. Other than taking it one person at a time, I don't know how we get everyone to understand. 

I hope the people who are out every night have that same energy when it comes time to vote. As I said earlier in this thread, the asshole in me thinks they won't show up.

Hope for the best, and expect the worse.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Some people just wanna see the world burn. They're called assholes.

[Brisketexan 105077]

7 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

You are absolutely correct. It is on us. And we really have shown as a society/nation that the status quo is more than okay. Other than taking it one person at a time, I don't know how we get everyone to understand. 

I hope the people who are out every night have that same energy when it comes time to vote. As I said earlier in this thread, the asshole in me thinks they won't show up.

Hope for the best, and expect the worse.

I'm with you, except on the "hope" shit.  Just expect the worst.  We always deliver on that.

 

7 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

My point is that it's time for real discourse and communication.  The shouting, the looting and the disruption needs to come to an end at some point soon and real discussion needs to occur.  Right now it is absent.

It has been absent.  It always has been.  That's the whole point, and the whole problem.  Black America has TRIED to have "discourse and communication.  They've tried it over, and over, and over.  And they get told the same thing every time -- STFU.  That's what leads to the rage.  It's maddening.

All we have to do is listen, and take real action.

And we won't.  We never do.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Brisketexan

[VABuckeye 2472]

So what is the solution?

I don't want to delve into politics.  Honestly when it comes to minorities and especially blacks, it's fucked up on both sides of the aisle.

[Brisketexan 105077]

9 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

So what is the solution?

I don't want to delve into politics.  Honestly when it comes to minorities and especially blacks, it's fucked up on both sides of the aisle.

I can get touchy-feely on you.  The solution is for the American people to "get right with the lord," metaphorically (and maybe actually).  We -- all of us, or at least a sizable majority of us -- have to 1) accept the fact that our institutions and systems of justice have produced shitty actions and outcomes for all, 2) those shitty actions and outcomes fall even more heavily on minority communities, and 3) we can no longer accept those shitty actions and outcomes for anyone, but we especially need to move to alleviate them with respect to the people who have had it the worst.

Once we accept and agree on those TRUTHS, then the rest is just the "how," and even though that won't be easy, it will be a lot easier than the first part.

We can't even agree, collectively, that there's major problems with how police do their job for us, nevermind agreeing on the fact that there's a lot of racism woven into that problem as well (cops are shitty to white people...they are EXTRA shitty to black people, pull them over more, etc. etc.).  If we can't even agree that something is a problem, then we'll damned well never agree on a solution (why solve something that isn't a problem?)

Public sentiment has moved some in the right direction, so there's your glimmer of hope.  I just don't believe that the interests in power will ever let that gel into a real collective belief.

[DigglerontheHoof 21183]

On 8/24/2020 at 5:24 PM, VABuckeye said:

So what is the solution?

I don't want to delve into politics.  Honestly when it comes to minorities and especially blacks, it's fucked up on both sides of the aisle.

The answer is to vote.  When is the last time the US had a 65% voter turnout or higher?  40-45% of the population doesn't care enough to vote or is being actively disenfranchised.  With the job the Reps are doing in voter suppression, I wonder if we'll hit 50% this year. 

[bad_teammate 13192]

1 hour ago, markstanco said:

Burning down and destroying a person's business who had absolutely nothing to do with the situation is not the way to handle it. 

Point 1) You might actually be incorrect about this.
The idea that positive change only happens through positive, healthy, peaceful, and calm action is more idealistic than realistic.

Point 2) Even if you are correct (which you probably aren't), the people doing it might not be acting out of cold calculation.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 8/24/2020 at 5:48 PM, DigglerontheHoof said:

The answer is to vote.  When is the last time the US had a 65% voter turnout or higher?  40-45% of the population doesn't care enough to vote or is being actively disenfranchised.  With the job the Reps are doing in voter suppression, I wonder if we'll hit 50% this year. 

That's OK with the mail in voting your fellow democrats may get to vote 2 or 3 times...

Edited August 27, 2020 by blacklab
vacation given for politics

[Brisketexan 105077]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's OK with the mail in voting your fellow democrats may get to vote 2 or 3 times...

...And with the GOP in charge of the postal service, not even the legit mail-in votes will count.

And this is why we can't solve a goddamned thing.  Any opposition to the ruling class is attacked relentlessly as illegitimate, criminal, etc.  What's the fucking point in speaking up? You just get shit on.  What's the point of voting?  It won't even be counted.

And you wonder why people end up at option 3 -- burn shit down.

[Hmmm 155]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I can get touchy-feely on you.  The solution is for the American people to "get right with the lord," metaphorically (and maybe actually).  We -- all of us, or at least a sizable majority of us -- have to 1) accept the fact that our institutions and systems of justice have produced shitty actions and outcomes for all, 2) those shitty actions and outcomes fall even more heavily on minority communities, and 3) we can no longer accept those shitty actions and outcomes for anyone, but we especially need to move to alleviate them with respect to the people who have had it the worst.

Once we accept and agree on those TRUTHS, then the rest is just the "how," and even though that won't be easy, it will be a lot easier than the first part.

We can't even agree, collectively, that there's major problems with how police do their job for us, nevermind agreeing on the fact that there's a lot of racism woven into that problem as well (cops are shitty to white people...they are EXTRA shitty to black people, pull them over more, etc. etc.).  If we can't even agree that something is a problem, then we'll damned well never agree on a solution (why solve something that isn't a problem?)

Public sentiment has moved some in the right direction, so there's your glimmer of hope.  I just don't believe that the interests in power will ever let that gel into a real collective belief.

I think the "how" is far more difficult than acknowledging the "truths" you speak of.  Most of BLM already accepts the truths.  Even a lot of city leadership accepts the truths.  The biggest problem from what I've seen is there is no unified, clear path with incremental steps to address the systematic issues.  Other than "defund the police" or "re-allocate funds".  It needs to be more clear than that with goals in mind.  Anyone at a large corporation is likely familiar with OKRs by now, and as much as I hate to say this, spelling it out in that form and fashion could be beneficial to setting a path and timeline to follow.  As we all know, things aren't getting fixed overnight or even in a few years.

Also, I do wonder if it would help to acknowledge what little progress has been made; though I fully acknowledge this could appease the movement by throwing water on the fire.  It might help to point out success stories in local areas that we can implement elsewhere.

[DigglerontheHoof 21183]

9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's OK with the mail in voting your fellow democrats may get to vote 2 or 3 times...

I never have been a Democrat; used to be a Republican but never again. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

We finally get to a point where there could be meaningful conversation in this thread and you're going tinfoil hat, Brisket?

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

gas·light

/ˈɡaslīt/

 

verb

gerund or present participle: gaslighting

1. manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.

[Brisketexan 105077]

6 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

We finally get to a point where there could be meaningful conversation in this thread and you're going tinfoil hat, Brisket?

I missed it -- am I the one who brought up our broken voting system?  No?  That's what I thought.  Bring it up, get it thrown back in your face - I note that you didn't call out Onboard for going "tinfoil hat" -- I guess that's because you think what he said about mail-in votes was the truth?  GTFO of here with that shit.  That you chose to call ME out on the ballot discussion, and not the guy who STARTED with the bullshit, unproven, 100% unsubstantiated conspiracy lies says a shitload about you.

[VABuckeye 2472]

Thicker skin man.  Thicker skin.

[VABuckeye 2472]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And with the GOP in charge of the postal service, not even the legit mail-in votes will count.

That's what prompted the tinfoil hat, comment.

[Brisketexan 105077]

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

That's what prompted the tinfoil hat, comment.

Yes.  And you let this comment pass as truthful, I guess:

 

24 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's OK with the mail in voting your fellow democrats may get to vote 2 or 3 times...

And I'm the one with the tinfoil hat?  Cool, cool.

[VABuckeye 2472]

I didn't even give it the attention that it didn't warrant.

[Brisketexan 105077]

22 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

I didn't even give it the attention that it didn't warrant.

If you agree to deem Onboard's commentary threadshittery that doesn't belong here, I'm good with that.  Although I will suggest that his comment was actually a perfect exhibit in my argument as to why nothing will ever get done.  That's where we are in this country.  Any attempt at rectifying any bullshit is relentlessly attacked and deemed illegitimate.

Vote?  If you vote against the LAW AND ORDER candidate, you're cheating!. I mean, WTF?  Why even fucking try?  It doesn't matter.  Shit sucks, and people like it sucking.  Our cities will burn, and we CHOSE THAT.  

[Sgt Hulk 13713]

Brisket seems like the type of guy just sitting at home watching riots on tv unfold just wrestling the bald headed champ non stop until he passes out  

[Hate 20106]

It's rage and I get it.  I feel like burning shit to the ground and I'm a white dude.  Cops keep killing at will with zero consequences.  The only difference I'd make, if I were them, is to go to the suburbs and start burning white people out.  

Wait, they’ve already had the trial for the cops in Minnesota? The cops in Wisconsin aren’t going to be charged?

And you really want things to escalate? Go into the suburbs and start burning stuff down. I don’t think it would achieve the action you think it would, unless you really want non stop escalating violence.

[Rougarou 594]

55 minutes ago, Hmmm said:

I think the "how" is far more difficult than acknowledging the "truths" you speak of.  Most of BLM already accepts the truths.  Even a lot of city leadership accepts the truths.  The biggest problem from what I've seen is there is no unified, clear path with incremental steps to address the systematic issues.  Other than "defund the police" or "re-allocate funds".  It needs to be more clear than that with goals in mind.  Anyone at a large corporation is likely familiar with OKRs by now, and as much as I hate to say this, spelling it out in that form and fashion could be beneficial to setting a path and timeline to follow.  As we all know, things aren't getting fixed overnight or even in a few years.

Also, I do wonder if it would help to acknowledge what little progress has been made; though I fully acknowledge this could appease the movement by throwing water on the fire.  It might help to point out success stories in local areas that we can implement elsewhere.

Trying to discuss problems and solutions in a strategic way is frowned upon, even though it's the only path to getting to where we want to go that doesn't start with an "R" and end it "evolution".

I know, I know-- cue the McKinsey jokes and Romney was a Bainie joke and scorn by all the salt of the earth and non-MBA types who are skeptical of fancy-mumbo-jumbo talk-- and I get being skeptical of consultants and their allyship, but a) when working in conjunction with the think-tanks, leading academics, and the Biden-administration and b) when remembering that the brightest business minds only loyalty is in solving problems and getting paid, there really isn't much to fear of the top 20% by the bottom 80%.

Just let them get a crack to fix this stuff and have the government cut them a check. Call it reparations, even.

Then again, this is politically toxic and is mansplaining or whitesplaining or whatever, so then you leave it to the loosely, federated leaders and movements like BLM to raise a lot of rancor and get nothing done, and the cycle repeats, turtles all the way down.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Rougarou

[Buzzrock 14903]

For the love of Pete please stop responding to the trolls in this thread. Focus, people!

[Hate 20106]

4 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

For the love of Pete please stop responding to the trolls in this thread. Focus, people!

Wait, who are the trolls?

[markstanco 12571]

Okay.
You don't know much about rage, or collective public demonstrations of rage.  It's not like these are a unique or new thing, or a thing that only happens in America.  They have happened all over the world, throughout history.  This is how they go.  And they are all triggered by the same thing -- crushing oppression without change or apology that leaves a group feeling frustrated and powerless.  It is pure human nature.

Human nature doesn't destroy other people's belongings that had noting to do with cause of the rage. You are better than that, or at least I hope.

[markstanco 12571]

Point 1) You might actually be incorrect about this.
The idea that positive change only happens through positive, healthy, peaceful, and calm action is more idealistic than realistic.
Point 2) Even if you are correct (which you probably aren't), the people doing it might not be acting out of cold calculation.

What a ridiculous take. You think these rioters have a list of businesses that they NEED to burn down? Good Lord you are looney.

[markstanco 12571]

Wait, who are the trolls?

And who is pete?

[Sgt Hulk 13713]

2 minutes ago, markstanco said:

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Point 1) You might actually be incorrect about this.
The idea that positive change only happens through positive, healthy, peaceful, and calm action is more idealistic than realistic.
Point 2) Even if you are correct (which you probably aren't), the people doing it might not be acting out of cold calculation.

What a ridiculous take. You think these rioters have a list of businesses that they NEED to burn down? Good Lord you are looney.

This the same idiot that said communism was great and had its merits. I fully expected him to say this 

[Anastasis 23463]

4 hours ago, MillerEP said:

 

insurance scam. 

[52-80 19147]

10 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

This the same idiot that said communism was great and had its merits. I fully expected him to say this 

And who the fuck let him out of the basement???

 

Lock him back in there with some kibble and a bowl of water

[markstanco 12571]

Burning cars at a Kenosha dealership that makes a huge political snafu by alienating some potential buyers by literally having a sign above a car burning that says "black lives matters".

Do your thing on anger and rage though, brisket.

Peaceful demonstration.

[RomaVicta 29902]

2 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Ah, ok.  The you're not as smart or as enlightened as me argument.  Get it.  Very dismissive.

That's some fun irony there. Aren't you and others dismissing a very potent expression of outrage as will to lawlessness? Aren't you dismissing these persons whom you don't know as morally inferior to you?

 

[MillerEP 30447]