Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

[immortal13 4059]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We'll get there, no need for abortion factories.  Let this pandemic and the next one go free-range, take away ACA healthcare, deport anyone whose parents might not have been natural born citizens, continue to encourage white supremacists to go hunting brown people (border Wal-Marts are like hunting deer over a feeder, I hear).....you'll get to your dream soon enough.

The ACA hasn't been anything short of an unmitigated disaster 

[alincoln 2364]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

We'll get there, no need for abortion factories.  Let this pandemic and the next one go free-range, take away ACA healthcare, deport anyone whose parents might not have been natural born citizens, continue to encourage white supremacists to go hunting brown people (border Wal-Marts are like hunting deer over a feeder, I hear).....you'll get to your dream soon enough.

It's going to take a while though if the white supremacists are only taking out 64 people every five years per your statistics above.  Better to rely on Free Abortions for All.  I am fine with a per capita reduction based on whatever groups you folks are currently splitting up the humans into.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

If you're concerned about costs, the billions that the public has had to pay out in settlements for police misconduct should make your blood boil.  Dollars that come out of each and every one of ours' pockets.

It does. The fact that the lawyers know it is easier to settle those cases because it's "free money" pisses me off and opens them up to more suits. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Tell you what, I'll make a wager with you right now -- there will be more people, including armed "troops" acting under the command of GOP officials, intimidating voters in historically minority districts than "antifa" interference at a polling place in the Woodlands.

You mean police at polling station to make sure there isn't violence ?  Sure there probably will be, and the Black panthers will be at theIr usual polling places in Philly "helping people" fill out their voting slips.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 minute ago, alincoln said:

only taking out 64 people every five years per your statistics above.

That's a slow weekend in Chicago. You know, all those "white supremacists"  gunning each other down there.

[JBJ 3649]

43 minutes ago, alincoln said:

No.  We are now at the point where we are talking about the intentional overselling of white supremacy to redirect attention from the intentional overselling of the rising danger of antifa. 

It is progress that they equate the two.

[workswithseed 2035]

28 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh yeah for sure, those white supremacists have destroyed enough of our cities this Summer with their rioting, looting, violence...

 

[Captainant 27447]

Just now, workswithseed said:

 

You're posting that as a joke, but there have been multiple police investigations conclusively finding that white supremacists have been inciting riots (read: property damage) at otherwise peaceful demonstrations. 

[Foosters 17730]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

You're posting that as a joke, but there have been multiple police investigations conclusively finding that white supremacists have been inciting riots (read: property damage) at otherwise peaceful demonstrations. 

Also, one of em killed a cop, but whatever.

[BabaYaga 15210]

8 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

It does. The fact that the lawyers know it is easier to settle those cases because it's "free money" pisses me off and opens them up to more suits. 

Could not be farther apart in terms on community impact.  These riots are destroying the very communities that need it the most.  Baltimore never recovered.  MN will likely struggle to recover.  Portland?  Right.  These communities are being devastated and the businesses are done.  We talk about investing in certain areas.  Predominantly it is done through incentives to create a landscape attractive to investors and small businesses.  Not any more. 

EX.  Seattle is royally fucked.  

Seattle facing insurance risks

Quote

As a summer dominated by street demonstrations against racism and police brutality winds down, more than 40 legal claims have piled up against Seattle for its handling of the protests.

But money is tight at City Hall as the COVID-19 pandemic has demanded emergency spending and sapped revenues. Insurance coverage that Seattle may need to settle claims was recently slashed, and two insurers threatened to drop their policies entirely, apparently because of concerns over law enforcement and public safety.

 

Consequently, Seattle has less coverage than it used to. For the year ending May 30, the city was insured for losses up to $100 million per occurrence. For the current term, that limit has dropped to $35 million.

King County also is more exposed, with a current limit of about $68 million, down from about $113 million, Frey said.

To make matters worse for Seattle, two of the city's six insurers Axis Surplus Insurance and an insurer that FAS declined to name recently said they would be canceling their policies.

The city asked the insurers to rethink their decisions, and both rescinded their notices.

 

[alincoln 2364]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

That's a slow weekend in Chicago. You know, all those "white supremacists"  gunning each other down there.

I don't care who is doing the killing as long as there is plenty of it!!!  I certainly don't give a shit that blacks kill twice as many whites every year than vice versa as long as the killing gets done.  We should require Antifa and the white supremacists to battle on the streets of Portland until everyone on each side is dead and the city is burned to the ground.  Access to the livestream can be sold as a pay per view and the proceeds can be used to remove the rubble and return the land to the Multnomah.  The carcasses of the dead can be repurposed as fertilizer for the organic fields that will be planted where Portland once stood.  

[BabaYaga 15210]

1 minute ago, alincoln said:

I don't care who is doing the killing as long as there is plenty of it!!!  I certainly don't give a shit that blacks kill twice as many whites every year than vice versa as long as the killing gets done.  We should require Antifa and the white supremacists to battle on the streets of Portland until everyone on each side is dead and the city is burned to the ground.  Access to the livestream can be sold as a pay per view and the proceeds can be used to remove the rubble and return the land to the Multnomah.  The carcasses of the dead can be repurposed as fertilizer for the organic fields that will be planted where Portland once stood.  

[Brisketexan 104593]

19 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

It does. The fact that the lawyers know it is easier to settle those cases because it's "free money" pisses me off and opens them up to more suits. 

Those aren't "free money" cases.  Cities actually have pretty good defenses - like, MUCH better than other types of defendants....unless the PD ROYALLY fucked up.  That cities are paying that much money tells you that the fuckups are pretty egregious.

18 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You mean police at polling station to make sure there isn't violence ?  Sure there probably will be, and the Black panthers will be at theIr usual polling places in Philly "helping people" fill out their voting slips.

Yes.  That's exactly why Trump will dispatch armed groups to the polls.  For protection.  They'll just happen to be in heavily minority districts.  Pure coincidence.

7 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You're posting that as a joke, but there have been multiple police investigations conclusively finding that white supremacists have been inciting riots (read: property damage) at otherwise peaceful demonstrations. 

Fake news.

6 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Also, one of em killed a cop, but whatever.

I mean, one of em went hunting at a Wal-Mart and went WAY over his "beaner bag limit," but whatever.

[workswithseed 2035]

5 minutes ago, alincoln said:

I don't care who is doing the killing as long as there is plenty of it!!!  I certainly don't give a shit that blacks kill twice as many whites every year than vice versa as long as the killing gets done.  We should require Antifa and the white supremacists to battle on the streets of Portland until everyone on each side is dead and the city is burned to the ground.  Access to the livestream can be sold as a pay per view and the proceeds can be used to remove the rubble and return the land to the Multnomah.  The carcasses of the dead can be repurposed as fertilizer for the organic fields that will be planted where Portland once stood.  

I'll stream for y'all on the cheap.... 

[immortal13 4059]

14 minutes ago, alincoln said:

I don't care who is doing the killing as long as there is plenty of it!!!  I certainly don't give a shit that blacks kill twice as many whites every year than vice versa as long as the killing gets done.  We should require Antifa and the white supremacists to battle on the streets of Portland until everyone on each side is dead and the city is burned to the ground.  Access to the livestream can be sold as a pay per view and the proceeds can be used to remove the rubble and return the land to the Multnomah.  The carcasses of the dead can be repurposed as fertilizer for the organic fields that will be planted where Portland once stood.  

The Purge 3!

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Those aren't "free money" cases.  Cities actually have pretty good defenses - like, MUCH better than other types of defendants....unless the PD ROYALLY fucked up.  That cities are paying that much money tells you that the fuckups are pretty egregious.

John Jay College Professor Eugene O’Donnell said the city is quick to settle claims against the police.

“This is the most anti-police administration in city history and it permeates everything that they do and they have definitely cut checks in cases that are very dubious — giant checks,” O’Donnell said. “Rather than explain and defend policing they have handed over taxpayer money.”

https://nypost.com/2020/01/31/city-payouts-in-nypd-misconduct-cases-up-by-nearly-30m/

[Brisketexan 104593]

4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

John Jay College Professor Eugene O’Donnell said the city is quick to settle claims against the police.

“This is the most anti-police administration in city history and it permeates everything that they do and they have definitely cut checks in cases that are very dubious — giant checks,” O’Donnell said. “Rather than explain and defend policing they have handed over taxpayer money.”

https://nypost.com/2020/01/31/city-payouts-in-nypd-misconduct-cases-up-by-nearly-30m/

Cool.  And I can point to cases where cities have foolishly stood behind their PD and either 1) encouraged the cops to continue misconduct, because leadership would cover for them, and/or 2) got popped for big judgments because they didn't settle the cases they should.  Of course, the evaluation of a city as being too plaintiff-friendly or too PD friendly can be found for literally every city in the country -- there's gonna be someone with each opinion for every city.  Collectively, police misconduct costs taxpayers millions upon millions, every year.  Some cases, the settlement may be more than deserved, in a lot of others, it's less.  When it all comes out in the wash, the result remains: lots of taxpayer dollars blown, lots of PDs continuing business-as-usual, continuing to rack up the bills.

Seems like a really good fiscally conservative move would be to look into loss-mitigation by correcting high-risk, high-cost conduct by one of your business units, instead of fighting with everything you've got to keep the same conduct repeating, every year.  That's what any business enterprise worth a shit would do.....But, I mean, what do Fortune 500 companies know?

Edited September 10, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

Common sense would indicate that we need tort reform, but since most of our legislators are lawyers...

[BabaYaga 15210]

8 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Common sense would indicate that we need tort reform, but since most of our legislators are lawyers...

Or simply create a database to track bad cops so they can't precinct hop and remove the mechanism protecting bad actors:  unions

[Captainant 27447]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Or simply create a database to track bad cops so they can't precinct hop and remove the mechanism protecting bad actors:  unions

Frankly it's not even the unions specifically - it's the terms of the union contracts that are signed and threatened out of cities. I do think it's important for groups with common interests to be able to organize and coordinate, but they shouldn't ride roughshod over the communities they proclaim to """protect and serve""".

It's pretty fucking transparent when you use abusive and dangerous police union contracts to then promote "uNiOnS bAd!!"

[Brisketexan 104593]

45 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Common sense would indicate that we need tort reform, but since most of our legislators are lawyers...

Yes, that's the ticket.  Let's give cops even MORE shielding from liability -- what a BRILLIANT idea.  Cop gets to murder me, the sole provider for my family, either bar my family from suing, or cap the damages at $500k (so, like a couple of years of the earnings they would otherwise get if I wasn't murdered).  What a GREAT idea.  That will SURELY produce a great public policy outcome!

Or, maybe....and work with me here.....we could take measures to keep the cops, our employees, from being beat-y and murder-y.  I mean, I know, that's just CRAZY talk, but here we are, in 2020, the year of crazy shit, so why not give that a whirl!

[Gatorubet 30088]

Common sense would indicate that we need tort reform, but since most of our legislators are lawyers...

Go fuck yourself in your tort reform ass with a cactus. You know the myth of easy money lawsuits is false, as false as the demonstrably untrue lie that tort reform lowers insurance rates. Tort reform hurts the most vulnerable in society while giving nothing in return.

We are 30 years in on medmal tort reform. Suits are way down, awards down, with damages set at 30 year old caps not increased with inflation, and insurance rates still go up while insurers’ profits rise. All you do with tort reform is punish those injured who can least afford it, and push the families onto the state benefit tit instead of letting the defendant take personal responsibility for their actions.


Common sense? You are just peddling more talk radio lies.

[VABuckeye 2472]

Maybe we can also get citizens to obey the laws of the land and not to destroy businesses already ravaged by loss of business from COVID.

[Thatguy 8495]

2 hours ago, alincoln said:

I don't care who is doing the killing as long as there is plenty of it!!!  I certainly don't give a shit that blacks kill twice as many whites every year than vice versa as long as the killing gets done.  We should require Antifa and the white supremacists to battle on the streets of Portland until everyone on each side is dead and the city is burned to the ground.  Access to the livestream can be sold as a pay per view and the proceeds can be used to remove the rubble and return the land to the Multnomah.  The carcasses of the dead can be repurposed as fertilizer for the organic fields that will be planted where Portland once stood.  

  What a complete crock of shit. Very misleading.

[Thatguy 8495]

2 hours ago, alincoln said:

I don't care who is doing the killing as long as there is plenty of it!!!  I certainly don't give a shit that blacks kill twice as many whites every year than vice versa as long as the killing gets done.  We should require Antifa and the white supremacists to battle on the streets of Portland until everyone on each side is dead and the city is burned to the ground.  Access to the livestream can be sold as a pay per view and the proceeds can be used to remove the rubble and return the land to the Multnomah.  The carcasses of the dead can be repurposed as fertilizer for the organic fields that will be planted where Portland once stood.  

double

Edited September 10, 2020 by Thatguy

[Thatguy 8495]

21 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

Maybe we can also get citizens to obey the laws of the land and not to destroy businesses already ravaged by loss of business from COVID.

  Social contracts.....how do they work?

[Brisketexan 104593]

  Social contracts.....how do they work?

Bingo.

We demand of the general public what we fight like hell to keep from demanding from the specialized group of public employees who are literally charged with upholding the law....and who steadfastly refuse to do so.

Pretty messed up.

[Rougarou 594]

John Locke was wrong.

[Rougarou 594]

The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society.

[Incredulity 11564]

19 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society.

 

[Celery Man 20883]

Protests

 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

13 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Go fuck yourself in your tort reform ass with a cactus.

I thought we wanted to be like "The Rest of the Modern World"?  They have very strict limits on torts. BUT MUH EUROPE!!!

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

13 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

we could take measures to keep the cops, our employees, from being beat-y and murder-y. 

End the Union that protects them.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

15 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I thought we wanted to be like "The Rest of the Modern World"?  They have very strict limits on torts. BUT MUH EUROPE!!!

Only when it doesn't affect your personal bottom line or doesn't fit your predetermined narrative of what should be.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[BabaYaga 15210]

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

End the Union that protects them.

We all know unions have made it extremely difficult to investigate misconduct claims and terminate officers who break the rules.  The contractual, substantive, and procedural protections that come with union membership, coupled with a complicated disciplinary process absolutely discourages supervisors from disciplining rank and file officers engaged in misconduct.  Just the miles of red tape alone is a deterrent.  So whether they are drastically neutered or ended all together, they are the single most significant mechanism of reform that could be changed overnight; yet drowned out by shouts of DEFUND.  

[MissingInAction 24814]

As a member of a Union I can confirm.

The amount of useless cock stains retaining jobs in the gubment is truly disgusting.

[Brisketexan 104593]

2 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I thought we wanted to be like "The Rest of the Modern World"?  They have very strict limits on torts. BUT MUH EUROPE!!!

Tort reform is about socializing costs.  If you are in favor of a European model of socializing costs (along with much more strict regulations of entities that, for example, sell dangerous products, operate recklessly to injure people, etc.), then let's go for it.  It's not really an a la carte approach.  In fact, the approach of privatizing profits while socializing costs is a uniquely stupid, and uniquely American, approach that we call tort reform.

But we can absolutely do that -- we can absolutely agree to socialize those costs.  There are models to follow that are efficient and fair.  I doubt you'd like them much.

[Bevo 13526]

44 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

We all know unions have made it extremely difficult to investigate misconduct claims and terminate officers who break the rules.  The contractual, substantive, and procedural protections that come with union membership, coupled with a complicated disciplinary process absolutely discourages supervisors from disciplining rank and file officers engaged in misconduct.  Just the miles of red tape alone is a deterrent.  So whether they are drastically neutered or ended all together, they are the single most significant mechanism of reform that could be changed overnight; yet drowned out by shouts of DEFUND.  

I would love to end unions for all public sector employees.

[Brisketexan 104593]

10 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Protests

 

.....that were booed. 

"We don't have a problem with peaceful protests!"  Add that one to the mountain of lies.  

[MonkeyDoughnut 10145]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

.....that were booed. 

"We don't have a problem with peaceful protests!"  Add that one to the mountain of lies.  

Seemed to me the booing was when the Texans were taking the field, not a statement on their protest

[Celery Man 20883]

fuller context

 

[MissingInAction 24814]

4 minutes ago, Bevo said:

I would love to end unions for all public sector employees.

It may have its drawbacks, but it's the only way public sector entities can retain what little talent they have. There is legislation every two years trying to fuck us out of our pensions, health care, and already shitty pay. Our union is the only thing stopping those cunts who want to privatize everything. 

[Pam Cummings 9576]

15 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Maybe we can also get citizens to obey the laws of the land and not to destroy businesses already ravaged by loss of business from COVID.

When everyone gets held to the same standard for breaking laws, maybe you can have that discussion. As long as one class of people has a different legal system, fuck that.

[Guest Lobo]

6 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Seemed to me the booing was when the Texans were taking the field, not a statement on their protest

They had already been on the field for some time.  Millions of Americans are an embarrassment to our nation, it's okay to say it.  

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

.....that were booed. 

"We don't have a problem with peaceful protests!"  Add that one to the mountain of lies.  

I have a problem with Virtue Signalling. 

[Brisketexan 104593]

Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

I have a problem with Virtue Signalling. 

Cool.  I'm thinking that so long as people of influence and public visibility don't use their positions to draw attention to important issues, keep their mouths shut, and only discuss such things in the privacy of their own homes, we're all good, right?

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I have a problem with Virtue Signalling. 

That's what half of the NFL is these days.  

[Brisketexan 104593]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

That's what half of the NFL is these days.  

In fairness, the other half is "domestic abuse and then looking the other way."  You know, gotta strike a balance.  

[Guest Lobo]

See...right there.  The NFL and Law Enforcement have so much more in common than most people realize.  

Start with love of firearms and domestic violence...and go from there.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool.  I'm thinking that so long as people of influence and public visibility don't use their positions to draw attention to important issues, keep their mouths shut, and only discuss such things in the privacy of their own homes, we're all good, right?

I'd rather people do things than talk about things. We live in a world where Tweeting something is considered noble. Fuck that noise. Do something or STFU with your Virtue Signalling.