Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

[Brisketexan 104605]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I agree with this. But you'd be hard pressed to get Brisket to admit that Virtue Signalling is hypocrisy. He BASKS in that glory.

Why do most people who rant against "virtue signalling" really rant?  Why was that crowd booing last night?  We all know the fucking answers..  You haven't answered and can't answer the most obvious questions, because you are dishonest.

The fact that we have to overcome a population that so casually lies to itself and others is one of the big reasons why shit doesn't get accomplished.  We can't even agree on obvious truths, because millions prefer the lie.

[Pam Cummings 9579]

6 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I agree with this. But you'd be hard pressed to get Brisket to admit that Virtue Signalling is hypocrisy. He BASKS in that glory.

You claim to not take them seriously because "hypocrites", but you're as full of absolute shit as anyone. As demonstrated in in my last post.

[dcar00 14035]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Why do most people who rant against "virtue signalling" really rant?  Why was that crowd booing last night?  We all know the fucking answers..  You haven't answered and can't answer the most obvious questions, because you are dishonest.

The fact that we have to overcome a population that so casually lies to itself and others is one of the big reasons why shit doesn't get accomplished.  We can't even agree on obvious truths, because millions prefer the lie.

I thought they were booing because the Texans suck and it was going to be a boring game but admit I wasn't watching that closely.

[MissingInAction 24815]

[Pam Cummings 9579]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Why do most people who rant against "virtue signalling" really rant?  Why was that crowd booing last night?  We all know the fucking answers..  You haven't answered and can't answer the most obvious questions, because you are dishonest.

The fact that we have to overcome a population that so casually lies to itself and others is one of the big reasons why shit doesn't get accomplished.  We can't even agree on obvious truths, because millions prefer the lie.

No dude, only people he disagrees with are like-minded. Those good folks booing last night had a thousand different reasons.

[Celery Man 20886]

Guys like JJ Watt and Lebron James should stop making statements about issues until they begin doing work directly to positively impact their communities.

[Hate 20103]

I'm almost positive that I've gone insane and 2020 is just a a horrible illusion created by my demented mind. 

If you only read Brisket’s post in the food or Lulz forums you will feel much better.

[MissingInAction 24815]

Just now, Celery Man said:

Guys like JJ Watt and Lebron James should stop making statements about issues until they begin doing work directly to positively impact their communities.

*not sure if serious.jpeg

[Incredulity 11564]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

If you only read Brisket’s post in the food or Lulz forums you will feel much better.

not really.

[Guest Lobo]

He's not serious.  And stop calling him 'Surly.' 

[dcar00 14035]

13 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

China effectively owns the NBA.  Contributing north of a billion a year.  They say shut up and dribble.  They do.  They say ZERO mentions of Hong Kong or other human rights violations.  The NBA obliges.  You want to get an NBA jersey with "all cops are fucking pigs" embroidered on the back.  You can.  You want one with "save HK"......mysteriously you can't....

cmon man! those people in HK can fend for themselves, they aren't oppressed.

[Guest Lobo]

Look, I'll be goddamned if, on September 11th, I'm gonna stand up to decades-long U.S. rivals like Russia and China.  I'm gonna be a fucking goddamn patriot, and instead shit on black people in my own country.  Because that's what it means to be an American!  Fuck yeah!  

[52-80 19090]

16 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

China effectively owns the NBA.  Contributing north of a billion a year.  They say shut up and dribble.  They do.  They say ZERO mentions of Hong Kong or other human rights violations.  The NBA obliges.  You want to get an NBA jersey with "all cops are fucking pigs" embroidered on the back.  You can.  You want one with "save HK"......mysteriously you can't....

clear proof the NBA is prejudiced against HKers and ethnic Han chinese.

America = 1.23% chinese

NBA coaches = 0% chinese

meanwhile, Steve Nash jumps to the front of the coaching line like the priviledged South African devil he is.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

Quotas or merit. Always a moving target 
 

[BabaYaga 15212]

14 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

cmon man! those people in HK can fend for themselves, they aren't oppressed.

Well, I do still have my fake IWC Portugieser I bought back in 2012 in some sketch as fuck HK back alley for $50 after a drunk bender at Nobu there overlooking the harbour.  Actually still works if you shake it hard enough.  

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

25 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

You claim to not take them seriously because "hypocrites", but you're as full of absolute shit as anyone. As demonstrated in in my last post.

[52-80 19090]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Actually still works if you shake it hard enough.  

That just means it had a real mechanical movement

[alincoln 2364]

If you have ever had the misfortune of attending an NFL game, you know that the vast majority of the diehard NFL fans aren't going to swallow the the NFL SJW era like so many Bloomin' Onions.  

[Rougarou 594]

I just hope a bunch of middle class, midwestern people booing at a mostly empty gesture doesn’t further fuel people into justifying why it’s okay to riot and loot, like we’ve seen the past few months. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

I'm almost positive that I've gone insane and 2020 is just a a horrible illusion created by my demented mind. 

So.... this is all your fucking fault ???!!!

[Poe It Up 126]

NFL fans booed Santa Claus for God’s sake, of course they’re going to boo a corny ass unity display. Stop being pussies. 

[workswithseed 2036]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

NFL fans booed Santa Claus for God’s sake, of course they’re going to boo a corny ass unity display. Stop being pussies. 

I heard it was much worse than just booing. Also philly.

[Thatguy 8502]

12 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Please point out where I've defended ANYONE who has broken the law. I'm not "Pro-Cop" anymore than I'm "Pro-Janitor". It's a job. You chose it. You deal with the consequences when you fuck up. I demonize morons who make shitty decisions and then cry when those decisions have consequences.

Honestly, Brisket. You and I probably would agree on 99% of things but you seem so hell bent on painting everyone with a broad brush that you can't see it.

Full of shit.

[Thatguy 8502]

12 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Is it possible for you to try and make a point absent sweeping generalizations stated as fact?  People are tired of virtue signaling because they see it time and time again for what it is.  Just that - all talk and no action.  Selective outrage and turning a blind eye to so many other items that have been around for years.  People sticking their finger in the air and reading the tea leaves on what to be outraged against when issues like this have been around for generations.  There's nothing "uncomfortable" about that in the least.   

Also full of shit

[Thatguy 8502]

On 9/10/2020 at 5:46 PM, VABuckeye said:

Maybe we can also get citizens to obey the laws of the land and not to destroy businesses already ravaged by loss of business from COVID.

  Social Contract- an implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits, for example by sacrificing some individual freedom for state protection.

   Break the contract and you have no right to expect people who made the agreement with you to honor their end as well.

  Also, one side is destroying businesses. The other side is taking lives. Yet here we are talking about businesses and those poor people who own them.

[Thatguy 8502]

12 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

China says hi.  

 

[dcar00 14035]

29 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

  Social Contract- an implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits, for example by sacrificing some individual freedom for state protection.

   Break the contract and you have no right to expect people who made the agreement with you to honor their end as well.

  Also, one side is destroying businesses. The other side is taking lives. Yet here we are talking about businesses and those poor people who own owned them and the people that worked for them.

fify

[workswithseed 2036]

33 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

  Social Contract- an implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits, for example by sacrificing some individual freedom for state protection.

   Break the contract and you have no right to expect people who made the agreement with you to honor their end as well.

  Also, one side is destroying businesses. The other side is taking lives. Yet here we are talking about businesses and those poor people who own them.

Wait, the dude who was 100% Antifa didn't take anyone's life?

[Bash Riprock 1695]

looks like Thatguy is getting caught up on this thread.

[InkaUtexas 25516]

4 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

looks like Thatguy is getting caught up on this thread.

Yep, going to push all 800+ posts tonight. 

[Thatguy 8502]

5 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Wait, the dude who was 100% Antifa didn't take anyone's life?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

11 hours ago, Thatguy said:

  Social Contract- an implicit agreement among the members of a society to cooperate for social benefits, for example by sacrificing some individual freedom for state protection.

   Break the contract and you have no right to expect people who made the agreement with you to honor their end as well.

  Also, one side is destroying businesses. The other side is taking lives. Yet here we are talking about businesses and those poor people who own them.

Do you often hear you're an idiot ?  cause you should. Yeah the "poor" people who lose their business should because why ?  Because there's social injustice in the world ? My business should be destroyed because you think people are killed by the police unjustly ?  That's my fault ?  Is it your fault you can't get people to not kill each other ?   Should you suffer the loss of your livelihood  because of that ?     Do you even have a job ?

Should black business owners all over the country have their businesses looted, and destroyed because black folks kill other black folks in Chicago, and other cities at an alarming rate ?  What have you said about that ?  What have you done about that ?   Your logic is cops are killing black people so it's perfectly OK to destroy my business ?  

Yes, the police have killed minorities so my business, and yours should be destroyed. Yep that makes 100% perfect sense..  Jesus Christ the fucking idiocy of some people. I'd love to hear your point of view on this matter when it's your business destroyed in these peaceful protests.

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[Thatguy 8502]

5 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Wait, the dude who was 100% Antifa didn't take anyone's life?

   You mean the dude who was executed without due process?

   790 Black people have been SHOT and killed by police in the last 3 years, and 123 so far this year. Who knows how many of those are justified or not. There is no database for people who get George Floyd'ed, Freddie Gray'ed, Daniel Prude'ed, Elijah McClain'ed, or Damon Grimes'ed. Who knows how many 100's more it would add if we started opening up weird deaths or the always popular mysterious deaths in custody.

   But of course, you are gonna bring up the Antifa death as your gotcha moment right? Versus the 100's of Black People who are dying at the hands of police? Of course you did. Oh you proved me wrong, right? Meanwhile, another Black man just got killed by police.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

17 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   You mean the dude who was executed without due process?

   790 Black people have been SHOT and killed by police in the last 3 years, and 123 so far this year. Who knows how many of those are justified or not. There is no database for people who get George Floyd'ed, Freddie Gray'ed, Daniel Prude'ed, Elijah McClain'ed, or Damon Grimes'ed. Who knows how many 100's more it would add if we started opening up weird deaths or the always popular mysterious deaths in custody.

   But of course, you are gonna bring up the Antifa death as your gotcha moment right? Versus the 100's of Black People who are dying at the hands of police? Of course you did. Oh you proved me wrong, right? Meanwhile, another Black man just got killed by police.

selective statistics. Bravo. 
 

 For the last five years, the police have fatally shot about 1,000 civilians annually, the vast majority of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. 

As of the June 22 update, the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootingsshowed 14 unarmed Black victims and 25 unarmed white victims in 2019.  Black people account for about 23% of those shot and killed by police

The number of unarmed Black shooting victims is down 63% from 2015, when the database began. There are about 7,300 Black homicide victims a year. The 14 unarmed victims in fatal police shootings would comprise only 0.2% of that total.

Ideally, officers would never take anyone’s life in the course of their duties. But given the number of arrests they make each year (around 10 million) and the number of deadly-weapons attacks on officers (an average of 27 per day in just two-thirds of the nation’s police departments, according to a 2014 analysis), it is not clear that these 1,000 civilian shooting deaths suggest that law enforcement is out of control.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/03/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/
 

meanwhile 10 African Americans were shot and killed in Chicago this past weekend  

Harvard University’s Ronald Fryer

An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

Edited September 12, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[52-80 19090]

6 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Wait, the dude who was 100% Antifa didn't take anyone's life?

Stop moving the goalpost.  He killed a white guy.  We only get mad when black guys are killed.

[Thatguy 8502]

28 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Do you often hear you're an idiot ?  cause you should. Yeah the "poor" people who lose their business should because why ?  Because there's social injustice in the world ? My business should be destroyed because you think people are killed by the police unjustly ?  That's my fault ?  Is it your fault you can't get people to not kill each other ?   Should you suffer the loss of your livelihood  because of that ?     Do you even have a job ?

Should black business owners all over the country have their businesses looted, and destroyed because black folks kill other black folks in Chicago, and other cities at an alarming rate ?  What have you said about that ?  What have you done about that ?   Your logic is cops are killing black people so it's perfectly OK to destroy my business ?  

Yes, the police have killed minorities so my business, and yours should be destroyed. Yep that makes 100% perfect sense..  Jesus Christ the fucking idiocy of some people. I'd love to hear your point of view on this matter when it's your business destroyed in theses peaceful protests.

 

  None of us here want protesting and rioting, but some of us here understand why it happens. You called me an idiot for my thoughts on rioting. Well, you would also call Dr. Martin Luther King an idiot as well. While he wasn't out there rioting himself, he understood why they were happening.

MLK said, “I think that we’ve got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years.”

  There is no such world where Black People can voice their disdain for police brutality and it be heard. If that world existed, then police brutality would've disappeared 150 years ago. People have ignored Black America when it told them that Police were secretly abusing them. People ignored Black America even when Rodney King was savagely beaten for the entire world to see, almost 30 years ago. Black America has waited and waited and hoped and hoped. Still nothing.

  Now here we are in the era of Black People being trained to record every police interaction, and yet and still John Q Public is still hell bent on finding ways to justify unnecessary police brutality rather than do something about it. Right on cue here you come with the, so what does damaging businesses do? I will tell you what doesn't work. Voting doesn't work. Filing reports against police doesn't work. Talking to your white friends about it doesn't work. Talking to reporters doesn't work. The only thing that has ever worked is forcing people to take notice through public demonstrations. Unfortunately, as has always been, some people will take that opportunity to riot.

  Now the question for you is why did we let it get that far? When Black People were telling us that they were being abused by the very group that was sworn to protect them, why didn't we act? Why is it 2020 and we still are watching people being suffocated until dead in the street? Answer me that.

[Thatguy 8502]

49 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

selective statistics. Bravo. 
 

 For the last five years, the police have fatally shot about 1,000 civilians annually, the vast majority of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. 

As of the June 22 update, the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootingsshowed 14 unarmed Black victims and 25 unarmed white victims in 2019.  Black people account for about 23% of those shot and killed by police

The number of unarmed Black shooting victims is down 63% from 2015, when the database began. There are about 7,300 Black homicide victims a year. The 14 unarmed victims in fatal police shootings would comprise only 0.2% of that total.

Ideally, officers would never take anyone’s life in the course of their duties. But given the number of arrests they make each year (around 10 million) and the number of deadly-weapons attacks on officers (an average of 27 per day in just two-thirds of the nation’s police departments, according to a 2014 analysis), it is not clear that these 1,000 civilian shooting deaths suggest that law enforcement is out of control.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/03/police-black-killings-homicide-rates-race-injustice-column/3235072001/
 

meanwhile 10 African Americans were shot and killed in Chicago this past weekend  

Harvard University’s Ronald Fryer

An Empirical Analysis of Racial Differences in Police Use of Force

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

  It's not selective. You are making the classic mistake of assuming there were no other ways to resolve those situations besides brutal force. You are also making the mistake of assuming the police were being honest about the suspect having a weapon. You are also dismissing the ones I cited who died at the hands of police by suffocation, being tased, bumping their head while riding in the back of a transport, or the weird way Elijah McClain went out. There is no database for those, so they do not show up in the stat sheet. How many more of these are there? Bottom line, Black People die at the hands of Police at a high rate per capita. That's what we DO know.

 

 

 

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-gttf-gladstone-plea-20190531-story.html

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Thatguy

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

14 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

  None of us here want protesting and rioting, but some of us here understand why it happens. You called me an idiot for my thoughts on rioting. Well, you would also call Dr. Martin Luther King an idiot as well. While he wasn't out there rioting himself, he understood why they were happening.

MLK said, “I think that we’ve got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years.”

  There is no such world where Black People can voice their disdain for police brutality and it be heard. If that world existed, then police brutality would've disappeared 150 years ago. People have ignored Black America when it told them that Police were secretly abusing them. People ignored Black America even when Rodney King was savagely beaten for the entire world to see, almost 30 years ago. Black America has waited and waited and hoped and hoped. Still nothing.

  Now here we are in the era of Black People being trained to record every police interaction, and yet and still John Q Public is still hell bent on finding ways to justify unnecessary police brutality rather than do something about it. Right on cue here you come with the, so what does damaging businesses do? I will tell you what doesn't work. Voting doesn't work. Filing reports against police doesn't work. Talking to your white friends about it doesn't work. Talking to reporters doesn't work. The only thing that has ever worked is forcing people to take notice through public demonstrations. Unfortunately, as has always been, some people will take that opportunity to riot.

  Now the question for you is why did we let it get that far? When Black People were telling us that they were being abused by the very group that was sworn to protect them, why didn't we act? Why is it 2020 and we still are watching people being suffocated until dead in the street? Answer me that.

Dr. king was for non violent protest. This is nothing like that. I call you an idiot for making light of the fact that people who have nothing to do with police violence have had their businesses, property, and lives destroyed. Many of those businesses they've destroyed served the very people, and communities they say they're protesting for.

Many of those protesters are nothing more than opportunistic looters. BLM. COM is a lot more than just stopping police violence against black folks (again politics).

I won't go into politics/ political agendas, but that would be involved in a direct response to your why have black people not been heard comment.  I agree with you on that point by the way.  Minorities have always bn given the short end of the stick here, and just about every other place on Earth throughout history. We have no corner on that market here.

Here's a question for you, why when Mr. Obama was president did this not become the issue it is now ?  The horrible acts we've seen by police were going on then. Why weren't there mass protests then like now ? There are no more acts now than then according to the popular narrative. Again politics are paying a role.  

 

[Brisketexan 104605]

Do you often hear you're an idiot ?  cause you should. Yeah the "poor" people who lose their business should because why ?  Because there's social injustice in the world ? My business should be destroyed because you think people are killed by the police unjustly ?  That's my fault ?  Is it your fault you can't get people to not kill each other ?   Should you suffer the loss of your livelihood  because of that ?     Do you even have a job ?
Should black business owners all over the country have their businesses looted, and destroyed because black folks kill other black folks in Chicago, and other cities at an alarming rate ?  What have you said about that ?  What have you done about that ?   Your logic is cops are killing black people so it's perfectly OK to destroy my business ?  
Yes, the police have killed minorities so my business, and yours should be destroyed. Yep that makes 100% perfect sense..  Jesus Christ the fucking idiocy of some people. I'd love to hear your point of view on this matter when it's your business destroyed in theses peaceful protests.
 

SHOULD property be destroyed etc? No. Absolutely not. It’s a terrible outcome.

But when a social contract is voided, is unrest and violence a known and expects outcome? Yep.

If you toss lit matches out your car window every day, eventually, conditions are going to be right for one to start a fire that burns a million acres and destroys towns and lives. You just tossed one little flame. That asshole “the wind” ram with shit and turned it into a conflagration that cost millions.

As a society, we shouldn’t accept our armed employees tossing lit matches; we shouldn’t accept them repeatedly and arrogantly voiding the social contract, daring the aggrieved party with “and what the fuck ya gonna do about it?” Because eventually, shit blows up. And we all get burned. That’s a shitty, shitty outcome. We should stop doing the things that make it likely/inevitable.

Oh...and why are there protests TODAY, and not under Obama? Maybe your memory is short, but....there were. Kap kneeled when Obama was president. Ferguson and numerous demonstrations happened when Obama was president. And we still didn’t get much real progress (note that we had a completely broken system after 2 yrs of his first term - Congress would agree to nothing, but still, he could and should have done more). So, when you speak up politely, when you kneel, when you march, and the dominant response is “STFU!”....and the bad shit you’ve protested keeps happening....the contract is broken.

We should keep our promises, and follow the social contract. That doesn’t seem like an outrageous demand....yet it pisses off the majority SO much. So. Here we are. Nothing will get better, because the majority is fighting with everything and every argument they have to ensure that it won’t. Hurrah. What a victory.

[leaf 681]

4 hours ago, Thatguy said:

  None of us here want protesting and rioting, but some of us here understand why it happens. You called me an idiot for my thoughts on rioting. Well, you would also call Dr. Martin Luther King an idiot as well. While he wasn't out there rioting himself, he understood why they were happening.

MLK said, “I think that we’ve got to see that a riot is the language of the unheard. And, what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the economic plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years.”

  There is no such world where Black People can voice their disdain for police brutality and it be heard. If that world existed, then police brutality would've disappeared 150 years ago. People have ignored Black America when it told them that Police were secretly abusing them. People ignored Black America even when Rodney King was savagely beaten for the entire world to see, almost 30 years ago. Black America has waited and waited and hoped and hoped. Still nothing.

  Now here we are in the era of Black People being trained to record every police interaction, and yet and still John Q Public is still hell bent on finding ways to justify unnecessary police brutality rather than do something about it. Right on cue here you come with the, so what does damaging businesses do? I will tell you what doesn't work. Voting doesn't work. Filing reports against police doesn't work. Talking to your white friends about it doesn't work. Talking to reporters doesn't work. The only thing that has ever worked is forcing people to take notice through public demonstrations. Unfortunately, as has always been, some people will take that opportunity to riot.

  Now the question for you is why did we let it get that far? When Black People were telling us that they were being abused by the very group that was sworn to protect them, why didn't we act? Why is it 2020 and we still are watching people being suffocated until dead in the street? Answer me that.

You are no Martin Luther King

[Brisketexan 104605]

You are no Martin Luther King

Pssst....back when he was alive, y’all hated MLK, too.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

13 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Full of shit.

[bad_teammate 13132]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Here's a question for you, why when Mr. Obama was president did this not become the issue it is now ? 

This is a political post and it's completely fucking stupid.

BLM started in 2013.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

This is a political post and it's completely fucking stupid.

BLM started in 2013.

Nice self portrait there sparky.

[Brisketexan 104605]

I extend the same amount of respect that I receive from anyone I meet.  That is my social contract. 
You (the group) keep talking about social contracts.  I am not breaking a social contract because the police have killed people.  My business is not tied to what the police do, and people smashing my windows, and destroying my space, hasselling people on the street, in restaurants, physically attacking anyone who doesn't toe the line completely with their views, and believe it's OK to destroy others property is breaking a social contract with me, and our fellow citizens.  
The violent protesting going on is more than just justice, and equality for everyone. You know it's also heavily political, and I'm not gonna go there here except to say this. The one party held congress for more than 50 years, and beyond the civl rights movement, I haven't seen much talk from them as a party (of and for the little man allegedly) over the last 50 years decrying police brutality.
I always appreciate that you respond rather than tag with the little angry emojis as some do.  I don't think we're far apart in our beliefs on justice, and equality, but how we get there, and via what methods is where we differ.

“I am not breaking a social contract because the police have killed people.”

But here’s the thing....you ARE breaking it. We all are. The police are us. They are our agents and employees. They wear a badge that we gave them, they wear pro flag on their uniform.

In the org chart of our society, the police answer to and work for us. And if they are doing the job - that WE gave them and WE demand they do “to protect us” — badly, then we, their bosses, need to fix that shit. And, if we look at their malfeasance and say “well, they aren’t beating ME up,” and look the other way (which is what we’ve done for decades), then we are purposefully and intentionally allowing their malfeasance to continue.

It shouldn’t just be up to black people to say “would you look at this shit? They should stop this shit.” We have power. We have votes, we have voices, we have money, we have influence (some of us more than others). If we have those, and choose not to use them to correct misconduct by our employees, then we’re just like a boss who knows his employees are beating the fuck out of people when they’re out making deliveries - we’d all hold him responsible, because 1) he knows, and 2) he’s not taking measures to stop it.

This is our society. All of ours. We the people are at the top of the org chart. And if our agents - cops, the IRS, the local garbage men - are doing wrong in our name, then it’s incumbent on us to fix that shit.

[VABuckeye 2472]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Pssst....back when he was alive, y’all hated MLK, too.

When he died I was 6 and I had zero opinion on him.  I didn't even know about him until he died so you sir, are dead wrong in your assertion.

Just keep making broad generalizations about people because their thinking doesn't exactly align with yours.

Edited September 12, 2020 by VABuckeye

[dcar00 14035]

43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

“I am not breaking a social contract because the police have killed people.”

But here’s the thing....you ARE breaking it. We all are. The police are us. They are our agents and employees. They wear a badge that we gave them, they wear pro flag on their uniform.

In the org chart of our society, the police answer to and work for us. And if they are doing the job - that WE gave them and WE demand they do “to protect us” — badly, then we, their bosses, need to fix that shit. And, if we look at their malfeasance and say “well, they aren’t beating ME up,” and look the other way (which is what we’ve done for decades), then we are purposefully and intentionally allowing their malfeasance to continue.

It shouldn’t just be up to black people to say “would you look at this shit? They should stop this shit.” We have power. We have votes, we have voices, we have money, we have influence (some of us more than others). If we have those, and choose not to use them to correct misconduct by our employees, then we’re just like a boss who knows his employees are beating the fuck out of people when they’re out making deliveries - we’d all hold him responsible, because 1) he knows, and 2) he’s not taking measures to stop it.

This is our society. All of ours. We the people are at the top of the org chart. And if our agents - cops, the IRS, the local garbage men - are doing wrong in our name, then it’s incumbent on us to fix that shit.

Brisket for Mayor!

The IRS has been bullshit from the get go and got worse very recently.  no one fixed it or rioted.  I'm gonna give the local garbage men a pass, those guys work hard.

to be honest, in the largest free and open society in the world with 330M people and the amount of violent crime, I was actually surprised it was approx 1000 people a year killed by cops.

 

[Rougarou 594]

Oh...and why are there protests TODAY, and not under Obama? Maybe your memory is short, but....there were. Kap kneeled when Obama was president. Ferguson and numerous demonstrations happened when Obama was president. And we still didn’t get much real progress... So, when you speak up politely, when you kneel, when you march, and the dominant response is “STFU!”....and the bad shit you’ve protested keeps happening....the contract is broken.

We should keep our promises, and follow the social contract. That doesn’t seem like an outrageous demand....yet it pisses off the majority SO much. So. Here we are. Nothing will get better, because the majority is fighting with everything and every argument they have to ensure that it won’t. Hurrah. What a victory.

Am I missing something in this philosophical/political science theory of social contract that the big brains of Surly have latched onto in recent months, about how it works? I did a cursory bit of googling, after first having learned of it 20 years ago and never thinking about it again, so I might not be too well versed..but what you are saying above seems to be a different animal.

Protesting is simply raising awareness; a public expression of disagreement and disapproval. Just because people--perhaps a slight, silent majority of Americans or maybe a vocal minority at a football game-- aren't moved to change their hearts and minds about the positions they hold which you are protesting doesn't mean that, "well, okay, we haven't done a good job of selling the belligerents on our position so I guess the only thing they will respond to is fires and looting and mayhem, and maybe we can get our way through destruction", does it? 

I mean, if it works then great and maybe it's a "by any means necessary" approach, but that's not non-violent protesting as we know it through the MLK Jr. coaching tree. And sure the same people who scoff at Kap probably are the same people would have probably scoffed at him now, but scoffing or booing or not agreeing with someone's stance and protest doesn't mean that the protest has failed unless we are saying that protests have evolved to mean some outcome-based vehicle and if you don't get you way after protesting then you are a failure.

[bad_teammate 13132]

3 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Protesting is simply raising awareness; a public expression of disagreement and disapproval. Just because people--perhaps a slight, silent majority of Americans or maybe a vocal minority at a football game-- aren't moved to change their hearts and minds about the positions they hold which you are protesting doesn't mean that, "well, okay, we haven't done a good job of selling the belligerents on our position so I guess the only thing they will respond to is fires and looting and mayhem, and maybe we can get our way through destruction", does it? 

It's easy to tear down strawmen that you build yourself.

Do you actually, sincerely believe that the people rioting are just people who are jaded after a long period of peaceful struggle? Do you even believe the arguments you make or are you trolling?

Quote

I mean, if it works then great and maybe it's a "by any means necessary" approach, but that's not non-violent protesting as we know it through the MLK Jr. coaching tree.

And just like in MLK's time, the people rioting aren't the same people as the ones who are peacefully protesting. As he discussed and talked about himself.

Or for more modern explanation...

He just leaving and he screamin' Jesus
(He had the highest hopes, he had the highest hopes)
People yellin', screamin' at polices
(Riots tonight, riots tonight)
Burnin', lootin', shootin', takin', thievin'
(Fire and light, fire and light)
Fill the air and most don't know the reason
(Never knew his name, never knew his name)
But they know his problems and feel his pain
(Shit's still the same, shit's still the same)
We just prey off in they deadly game
(It'll never change, it'll never change)

Riots are what you get when the needs of the people are not being met. Revolution is what happens when rioting gets organized and focuses on overthrowing government.

[dcar00 14035]

4 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

 

 

Am I missing something in this philosophical/political science theory of social contract that the big brains of Surly have latched onto in recent months, about how it works? I did a cursory bit of googling, after first having learned of it 20 years ago and never thinking about it again, so I might not be too well versed..but what you are saying above seems to be a different animal.

Protesting is simply raising awareness; a public expression of disagreement and disapproval. Just because people--perhaps a slight, silent majority of Americans or maybe a vocal minority at a football game-- aren't moved to change their hearts and minds about the positions they hold which you are protesting doesn't mean that, "well, okay, we haven't done a good job of selling the belligerents on our position so I guess the only thing they will respond to is fires and looting and mayhem, and maybe we can get our way through destruction", does it? 

I mean, if it works then great and maybe it's a "by any means necessary" approach, but that's not non-violent protesting as we know it through the MLK Jr. coaching tree. And sure the same people who scoff at Kap probably are the same people would have probably scoffed at him now, but scoffing or booing or not agreeing with someone's stance and protest doesn't mean that the protest has failed unless we are saying that protests have evolved to mean some outcome-based vehicle and if you don't get you way after protesting then you are a failure.

let me simplify Brisket for Mayor speak for you. "its all your fault"