Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

[Sgt Hulk 13648]

you guys that continually engage these 2 are a glutton for punishment.  Masochist i tell ya. 

[BrazilHorn 6576]

Have the protests stopped? Not seeing anything on news anymore about these. Went from nightly updates now to nothing. Just weirdly quiet.

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Still going on but smaller. Media lost interest.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

50 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

  I are a psychopath or have you never seen the Tamir Rice video? Tamir Rice was a 12 year old kid. 12 fucking years old man. He was playing with a toy gun. Someone called police and said a Black Kid had a gun in the park. Police recklessly drove right through the grass, right up next to him and shot him. There is no world where anything they did is justifiable. You making an attempt to justify what happened to that kid with this video says a lot more about you than you think. Check yourself man. A 12 year old is gonna 12 year old. Right now, you are doing EXACTLY what Brisket said, and looking for anyway to justify even the most reckless instance of police being out of bounds.

I grew up with toy machine guns, and pistols in my hands most days, along with my buds. Playing army, and cowboys and Indians was the order of the day.  No justification for shooting a 12 year, let alone the first action you employ to diffuse a situation.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

Have the protests stopped? Not seeing anything on news anymore about these. Went from nightly updates now to nothing. Just weirdly quiet.

 

Just re grouping. I mean they've burned, and destroyed a lot of shit.  They need to resupply, and scout out new locations.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I grew up with toy machine guns, and pistols in my hands most days, along with my buds. Playing army, and cowboys and Indians was the order of the day.  No justification for shooting a 12 year, let alone the first action you employ to diffuse a situation.

This.  Fuck, that's one of the things that immediately flipped me out about that situation.  From age 8-13, probably, my summer days and afternoon goof-off time was spent playing army with my buddies in my neighborhood.  Some of us had cap guns etc. that looked pretty damned realistic (hell, we LIKED the more realistic ones).  We were fucking kids.  With toy guns.  But you know, we were in a somewhat NICER neighborhood (modest, but not a lot of minorities).....so would we have been treated differently by officer Rambo?  Maybe yes, maybe no -- both are shitty answers.

[workswithseed 2037]

13 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

Have the protests stopped? Not seeing anything on news anymore about these. Went from nightly updates now to nothing. Just weirdly quiet.

 

Smoke, going to Washington, and being prosecuted by the feds instead of local DA.

[BrazilHorn 6576]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Just re grouping. I mean they've burned, and destroyed a lot of shit.  They need to resupply, and scout out new locations.

I was curious if fires in oregon/wash state curtailed protests there as the ones in portland had gone on so long that it seemed random that they just stopped.

I do believe that you can only protest so long before you are like "fuck it", I am just wondering if that is case here. 100+ days in portland is a long time to stay actively pissed off.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  Fuck, that's one of the things that immediately flipped me out about that situation.  From age 8-13, probably, my summer days and afternoon goof-off time was spent playing army with my buddies in my neighborhood.  Some of us had cap guns etc. that looked pretty damned realistic (hell, we LIKED the more realistic ones).  We were fucking kids.  With toy guns.  But you know, we were in a somewhat NICER neighborhood (modest, but not a lot of minorities).....so would we have been treated differently by officer Rambo?  Maybe yes, maybe no -- both are shitty answers.

The cousin had an M-16 that was about as realistic as you could get. We had fist fights over who got to use that gun.

Our son played Airsoft with a scoped long gun. The only give away was the small orange ring on the end of the barrel.  He'd be dead today in the wrong neighborhood, or meeting up with the wrong cop.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, BrazilHorn said:

I was curious if fires in oregon/wash state curtailed protests there as the ones in portland had gone on so long that it seemed random that they just stopped.

I do believe that you can only protest so long before you are like "fuck it", I am just wondering if that is case here. 100+ days in portland is a long time to stay actively pissed off.

Round 2 is coming I believe.

[BabaYaga 15212]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The cousin had an M-16 that was about as realistic as you could get. We had fist fights over who got to use that gun.

Our son played Airsoft with a scoped long gun. The only give away was the small orange ring on the end of the barrel.  He'd be dead today in the wrong neighborhood, or meeting up with the wrong cop.

They used to teach marksmanship in school and I had a gun-rack with guns in my truck on campus in HS.  A lot has changed across the entire spectrum. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

They used to teach marksmanship in school and I had a gun-rack with guns in my truck on campus in HS.  A lot has changed across the entire spectrum. 

Oh hell yeah, hunting before or after school so you'd have your shot gun or rifle in your trucks rear window gun rack in the school parking lot. That was the late 70's early 80's of course.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

16 hours ago, Foosters said:

Is it your position that America has been receptive to the complaints from people of color regarding police brutality? 

Define "receptive". Do most American's want a system that is fair regardless of race, I would say "yes". Do most American's want a "black national anthem" played at NFL games? I would say "no". The thought of "you are 100% with us or you are against us/ Silence is Violence" is UnAmerican. 

[BabaYaga 15212]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh hell yeah, hunting before or after school so you'd have your shot gun or rifle in your trucks rear window gun rack in the school parking lot. That was the late 70's early 80's of course.

Yep.  Went to McCallum HS.  We'd hit classes, then bail and head out to Lampasas for shennanigans abound.  We'd hit that drive-through margarita place first or grab a Top-Notch on the way out of town.  Different times.  But this was the late 80's for me.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Define "receptive". Do most American's want a system that is fair regardless of race, I would say "yes". Do most American's want a "black national anthem" played at NFL games? I would say "no". The thought of "you are 100% with us or you are against us/ Silence is Violence" is UnAmerican. 

Yeah there's one national anthem.  And fuck that you're fer or agin us Bullshit.  

There are no absolutes in this issue other than all people should be treated fairly, and with respect whenever possible

Edited September 18, 2020 by Onboard 2.0

[BabaYaga 15212]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

The thought of "you are 100% with us or you are against us/ Silence is Violence" is UnAmerican. 

Shhhhhh, dude, you can't say that or you will get doxxed and deplatformed.  

[bad_teammate 13132]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Shhhhhh, dude, you can't say that or you will get doxxed and deplatformed.  

False victimhood from pathetic white suburban men.

[BabaYaga 15212]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

False victimhood from pathetic white suburban men.

Not sure why any of you engage BT. Just ignore him and move on.

I deleted a post here that BT is now using to claim everyone is a white supremacist. BT if you're just going to name call please find another board to post on. 

-Blacklab

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

12 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Shhhhhh, dude, you can't say that or you will get doxxed and deplatformed.  

Having nothing to lose is an awesome place to be in.

And FWIW, this was a serious question. In order for our country to be "receptive" we need to understand what we are expected to be "receptive" to.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Cheeseweasel

[dcar00 14035]

26 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Round 2 is coming I believe.

agreed.  mid oct.  a couple of weeks of some good old fashioned rioting is in the works.  need that next stimulus check though to make it to Nov.

[Brisketexan 104628]

39 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

Have the protests stopped? Not seeing anything on news anymore about these. Went from nightly updates now to nothing. Just weirdly quiet.

 

I hope that the lull will allow for the violent elements to subside and be better managed, so that when protests ramp up again, they are focused, on-message, and peaceful.

17 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Oh hell yeah, hunting before or after school so you'd have your shot gun or rifle in your trucks rear window gun rack in the school parking lot. That was the late 70's early 80's of course.

Late 80s here -- I remember our dean of students helping us transfer shotguns from my friends' cars to mine as we all headed out for a dove hunting weekend.  In the school parking lot, moving shotguns around.

13 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 

There are no absolutes in this issue other than all people should be treated fairly, and with respect whenever possible

Yes.....but not just this.  We have to acknowledge and have a reckoning about our past -- a past that isn't all in the past (that's the point -- freeing the slaves didn't end racism, the Civil Rights Act didn't end racism, etc.).  It's okay to acknowledge our failings and flaws -- it's important.  You can't solve a problem until you acknowledge and know what the problem is, and how it manifests.  Those things are necessary to get to the goal of truly treating people fairly and with respect.  Because people are different.  Shit, think of how you treat your male friends "fairly and with respect" versus how you treat women "fairly and with respect" -- a lot of things are identical, but some are different, because how you show respect to different people in different situations can differ.

As a society, we have treated black people pretty shitty.  And in many respects, we still do.  It's okay to acknowledge those things -- it doesn't mean you're a bad person, you've done something bad or racist, it's just acknowledging that there's a big, broad, social problem, and we all have a role in it.  And we can all have a role in making things better.  That's what Americans do, right?  Work hard, together, to make things better?  So let's do that.

[bad_teammate 13132]

22 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Define "receptive". Do most American's want a system that is fair regardless of race, I would say "yes". Do most American's want a "black national anthem" played at NFL games? I would say "no". The thought of "you are 100% with us or you are against us/ Silence is Violence" is UnAmerican. 

No, most Americans do not want a black national anthem played at NFL games.

And sure, most Americans want a system that is fair regardless of race in the same way a fat guy plowing beer and donuts wants to be thin. The ideal is nice, but the nanosecond it requires sacrifice or compromise or self-reflection or change, NO THANKS.

Look at what governments and police forces have offered in the wake of George Floyd's murder and subsequent protests. Not the symbolic garbage like painting "BLACK LIVES MATTER" on a street or a cop doing the Dougie with a group of kids. What systematic reforms have either been implemented or are on their way through that shows a significant desire on the part of America's power structure to address these problems?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. And there's basically no pudding to speak of.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I hope that the lull will allow for the violent elements to subside and be better managed, so that when protests ramp up again, they are focused, on-message, and peaceful.

Late 80s here -- I remember our dean of students helping us transfer shotguns from my friends' cars to mine as we all headed out for a dove hunting weekend.  In the school parking lot, moving shotguns around.

Yes.....but not just this.  We have to acknowledge and have a reckoning about our past -- a past that isn't all in the past (that's the point -- freeing the slaves didn't end racism, the Civil Rights Act didn't end racism, etc.).  It's okay to acknowledge our failings and flaws -- it's important.  You can't solve a problem until you acknowledge and know what the problem is, and how it manifests.  Those things are necessary to get to the goal of truly treating people fairly and with respect.  Because people are different.  Shit, think of how you treat your male friends "fairly and with respect" versus how you treat women "fairly and with respect" -- a lot of things are identical, but some are different, because how you show respect to different people in different situations can differ.

As a society, we have treated black people pretty shitty.  And in many respects, we still do.  It's okay to acknowledge those things -- it doesn't mean you're a bad person, you've done something bad or racist, it's just acknowledging that there's a big, broad, social problem, and we all have a role in it.  And we can all have a role in making things better.  That's what Americans do, right?  Work hard, together, to make things better?  So let's do that.

You get no argument from me on that. But... our nation, our gov't has tried to address those issues.   Individuals haven't always bought into those moves (you can't legislate morality). I see a bright future for that acceptance, and change as old ways die out, and people with those fucked up ideas of supremacy of one race over others die away.

[Brisketexan 104628]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

You get no argument from me on that. But... our nation, our gov't has tried to address those issues.   Individuals haven't always bought into those moves (you can't legislate morality). I see a bright future for that acceptance, and change as old ways die out, and people with those fucked up ideas of supremacy of one race over others die away.

It is absolutely an ongoing and continuing struggle.  I mean, seriously, internally, that's the term used -- it's a struggle.  And it has lulls, and hot spots in history.  We're in a hot spot, and we have been for a while (yes, this pre-dates the current POTUS, significantly).

Ultimately, the way to address these issues does involve government action -- after all, the police are a government entity.  And many other broader issues will need a governmental component to address them.  But a huge part of it is society, too.  Opening our perspective, and understanding and purposefully addressing the racism and inequities that are all around us -- many of which we are blissfully unaware of -- is part of it.  But social change matters.

For example, integrating the military was one of the most important events in civil rights history.  Black men got to see and experience how the "other half" lived, and when they got back to the world, they weren't eager to accept second-class status again.  And white men got to see their black comrades as just that -- their fellow Americans, their brothers in arms, placing their lives in each other's hands. It's really hard to be racist against a guy who saved your ass when the VC were about to overrun your position (there's a book on the black experience in Vietnam, "Bloods" -- one of the best war books I've ever read, period, I highly recommend).  The point is, change comes when you 1) change laws and 2) change minds.  Both are necessary.  You can't change minds by operation of law, but good laws (like the action of integrating the military) can help lead to the conditions that change minds.  Laws alone won't do it, though.  It's hard work.  I sure would like it if all of us would pitch in.

[Thatguy 8505]

1 hour ago, VABuckeye said:

That isn't what he was stating at all.  He was saying that this shit does and can happen to all people regardless of race.

 

1 hour ago, VABuckeye said:

I know he was a kid and it's tragic.  Stil, the point remains that in many instances police have shot first and asked questions later.  Nothing makes that right.

Or do you want to argue just to fucking argue because at times that's all you do.

 

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Yeah bro, that's a totally sincere description.  Like the police were instructed "there is a 12 year old playing with a toy gun at the park".

 

Nevermind the call to the police reported a person pointing a gun at multiple people.  The person looked to be 20 (caller's description).  The toy gun looked like a real gun (yellow tip was missing). 

 

Fact:  911 dispatch relayed that a person with a gun was pointing it at multiple people.  Police came, gun was raised at them, and police fired.

Fact:  911 dispatch relayed that a person walking around a trailer park with a rifle.  Police came, gun was raised at them, and police within split second.

 

If you want to make the claim police are quick triggered, that's fine.  But I don't see you crying why they didn't check how old James Bradley was, or if his rifle was an Airsoft

  Not even remotely the same. One, the cop comes around a blind corner and encounters a man pointing what looks to be a shotgun at him. The other the police drive through the grass right to where Tamir is. It's wide open. There are no walls. Nothing blocking their vision. They could see him the entire time. Knowing exactly where he was, they could've taken a myriad of different routes. They drove right up next to him and executed him. The story was he pointed the gun, but if you watch the video where do you see that?

  You guys who are arguing about these things are the reason the shit that's going on is happening. Blame your damn selves. You refuse to listen to any reason put forth. You refuse to listen when even Black People are giving you first hand accounts. So when you turn on the TV and see more stupidity and violence you can walk right over to the mirror and take a long hard look, because had you guys got off your asses and done something. Anything! We wouldn't be here in 2020. I can see why the other Black People stay off threads like these because they are fucking infuriating. Tell Tamir's parents it was a good shoot. Tell them it was his fault that he got shot. I'm out.

[Thatguy 8505]

 

nm

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Thatguy

[dcar00 14035]

Bye

[BabaYaga 15212]

5 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

 Not even remotely the same. One, the cop comes around a blind corner and encounters a man pointing what looks to be a shotgun at him. The other the police drive through the grass right to where Tamir is. It's wide open. There are no walls. Nothing blocking their vision. They could see him the entire time. Knowing exactly where he was, they could've taken a myriad of different routes. They drove right up next to him and executed him. The story was he pointed the gun, but if you watch the video where do you see that?

  You guys who are arguing about these things are the reason the shit that's going on is happening. Blame your damn selves. You refuse to listen to any reason put forth. You refuse to listen when even Black People are giving you first hand accounts. So when you turn on the TV and see more stupidity and violence you can walk right over to the mirror and take a long hard look, because had you guys got off your asses and done something. Anything! We wouldn't be here in 2020. I can see why the other Black People stay off threads like these because they are fucking infuriating. Tell Tamir's parents it was a good shoot. Tell them it was his fault that he got shot. I'm out.

Straw man much?  The quotes you posted are agreeing with you?

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

As a society, we have treated black people pretty shitty.  And in many respects, we still do.  It's okay to acknowledge those things -- it doesn't mean you're a bad person, you've done something bad or racist, it's just acknowledging that there's a big, broad, social problem, and we all have a role in it. 

Hard to disagree with this and I believe that a huge majority of the population acknowledges and understands that we have work to do. I would also say it is frustrating to hear people discount all the things we have done as if they are like they were in the '60's. We've come so far. More to go... but so far.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

27 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Blame your damn selves

I'm white, I don't pretend for a moment that I understand what it is like to be black.

I'm not a cop, I also don't pretend for a moment that I understand what it is like to be a cop. 

Where there is ambiguity, I give people grace. Where there is evidence of clear wrongdoing, I hope that our system of justice works.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Hard to disagree with this and I believe that a huge majority of the population acknowledges and understands that we have work to do. I would also say it is frustrating to hear people discount all the things we have done as if they are like they were in the '60's. We've come so far. More to go... but so far.

I get that.  I really do.  It absolutely feels frustrating in both directions, and I understand both perspectives.

A message of "you used to get the shit beaten out of you 10 times a year and had to live in a house with no electricity....we worked with you, and now you have a house with electricity and AC, and only get beaten 5 times a year" IS a positive message.  The world moves incrementally, not all at once.

But then, hearing a message of "hey, you only get beaten 5 times a year" is still a message of "you get beaten 5 times a year."  So, the recipient of that message is understandably pissed off that they are still beaten 5 times a year.

We've come a long way.  We have a long way to go.  The only way for either of those things to matter is for us to engage in meaningful conversations where we listen, not just talk.  Black people have been telling us, or trying to tell us, about police abuse for decades.  We haven't just not listened -- we've actively resisted listening.  It's only in the past decade or so, when cellphone video has made incident after incident too visible to ignore, that society as a whole has started to listen.  Not really listened, but at least started to.

[Armybrat 40744]

28 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Bye

What did he edit? Just curious.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The only way for either of those things to matter is for us to engage in meaningful conversations where we listen, not just talk. 

I just don't see enough of that. Surly is a good example. Way too much finger pointing and yelling vs. actual conversations. 

[52-80 19096]

58 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

  It's okay to acknowledge those things -- it doesn't mean you're a bad person, you've done something bad or racist, it's just acknowledging that there's a big, broad, social problem, and we all have a role in it. 

And how gentle they whisper it, too

 

[Brisketexan 104628]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I'm white, I don't pretend for a moment that I understand what it is like to be black.

I'm not a cop, I also don't pretend for a moment that I understand what it is like to be a cop. 

I have been around both groups where they expressed their sincere experiences and beliefs.  Sure, from each group, I have heard stories where I thought "yeah....I know you think that would make my sympathize with you, but you were a dick, or I don't believe you," and I've heard stories that made my sympathize with their situation.

But on balance......it wasn't even close.  Yeah, being a cop has its challenges, but it also involves incredible power (and thus responsibility) -- maybe too much.  Being black involves....just being.  Trying to live your life, as any other American.  And when I look at the collective challenges for both, and our responsibility as a people who speak and act through our government......I hold the police to a higher standard than they are willing to hold themselves to.  I'm good with that.

[dcar00 14035]

5 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

What did he edit? Just curious.

no idea...

[Brisketexan 104628]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

And how gentle they whisper it, too

 

And millions of others engage in it in more constructive ways.  But that's what you focus on.  

Which is why it's really hard not to conclude that this conversation isn't pointless.  We could have ten million doing things the right way, but if 10 act like dicks, the entire perspective of an entire race is garbage.

Why don't you play the 8 minute long interview of a black Portland native, who spoke powerfully to the camera, and spoke pointedly to the white allies in the protest crowd, both thanking them for their assistance, and suggesting ways they can truly help.  There are millions of conversations like those.

But you only see what you want to see.  Because it allows you to do what you want to do - dismiss the issue.

[dcar00 14035]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I get that.  I really do.  It absolutely feels frustrating in both directions, and I understand both perspectives.

A message of "you used to get the shit beaten out of you 10 times a year and had to live in a house with no electricity....we worked with you, and now you have a house with electricity and AC, and only get beaten 5 times a year" IS a positive message.  The world moves incrementally, not all at once.

But then, hearing a message of "hey, you only get beaten 5 times a year" is still a message of "you get beaten 5 times a year."  So, the recipient of that message is understandably pissed off that they are still beaten 5 times a year.

We've come a long way.  We have a long way to go.  The only way for either of those things to matter is for us to engage in meaningful conversations where we listen, not just talk.  Black people have been telling us, or trying to tell us, about police abuse for decades.  We haven't just not listened -- we've actively resisted listening.  It's only in the past decade or so, when cellphone video has made incident after incident too visible to ignore, that society as a whole has started to listen.  Not really listened, but at least started to.

haven't killings by police(all races as well as black) dropped dramatically over the past 30 years?

[hayden_horn 11360]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I get that.  I really do.  It absolutely feels frustrating in both directions, and I understand both perspectives.

A message of "you used to get the shit beaten out of you 10 times a year and had to live in a house with no electricity....we worked with you, and now you have a house with electricity and AC, and only get beaten 5 times a year" IS a positive message.  The world moves incrementally, not all at once.

But then, hearing a message of "hey, you only get beaten 5 times a year" is still a message of "you get beaten 5 times a year."  So, the recipient of that message is understandably pissed off that they are still beaten 5 times a year.

We've come a long way.  We have a long way to go.  The only way for either of those things to matter is for us to engage in meaningful conversations where we listen, not just talk.  Black people have been telling us, or trying to tell us, about police abuse for decades.  We haven't just not listened -- we've actively resisted listening.  It's only in the past decade or so, when cellphone video has made incident after incident too visible to ignore, that society as a whole has started to listen.  Not really listened, but at least started to.

rodney king, march 3, 1991. it's now 2020. what has actually changed in the subsequent TWENTY FUCKING NINE years?

[Brisketexan 104628]

Just now, dcar00 said:

haven't killings by police(all races as well as black) dropped dramatically over the past 30 years?

They've dropped significantly, as has all crime.

But....incarceration rates have gone way up.  And the factor above doesn't measure for other negative police interactions, of course.  It's a mixed bag.

[VABuckeye 2472]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

And millions of others engage in it in more constructive ways.  But that's what you focus on.

That isn't what the media is putting out there.  They show the outiers.

[Brisketexan 104628]

1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

rodney king, march 3, 1991. it's now 2020. what has actually changed in the subsequent TWENTY FUCKING NINE years?

A lot more cameras.  Rodney King was the beginning of the "video documentation of police abuse" era, but it didn't really kick in until the last 10 years or so.

[Hate 20103]

Well, there were riots 29 years ago and a lot of LA and other cities burned. So everything should have been good because riots are the only way things change, right?

[Brisketexan 104628]

Just now, VABuckeye said:

That isn't what the media is putting out there.  They show the outiers.

Depends on the media you choose to consume, and the stories they post that you choose to consume.  People self-select both the source, and the menu items that source offers that they want to consume.  People should seek out a balanced perspective.  They'll see the whole picture.  That's important to do.

[dcar00 14035]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They've dropped significantly, as has all crime.

But....incarceration rates have gone way up.  And the factor above doesn't measure for other negative police interactions, of course.  It's a mixed bag.

hmmm crime has dropped dramatically but incarcerations have risen dramtically...

[bad_teammate 13132]

18 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I would also say it is frustrating to hear people discount all the things we have done as if they are like they were in the '60's. We've come so far. More to go... but so far.

Why is it frustrating?

Serious question.

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 minutes ago, Hate said:

Well, there were riots 29 years ago and a lot of LA and other cities burned. So everything should have been good because riots are the only way things change, right?

really?

[VABuckeye 2472]

Yes they should and people should be willing to communicate and listen but I don't see a lot of that going on.  I'm a "the truth is somewhere in the middle" kind of guy so I do like to see different perspectives on issues.  Sadly, this is rarely the case and the voice of reason gets lost in the middle of it all.

 

By truth, I do not mean the events that occured that incited what is going on.  I'm talking about the messages, videos and media portrayals of protests and rioting.

Edited September 18, 2020 by VABuckeye

[Hate 20103]

really?

It’s something that’s been repeated in this thread several times.

[52-80 19096]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Which is why it's really hard not to conclude that this conversation isn't pointless.  We could have ten million doing things the right way, but if 10 act like dicks, the entire perspective of an entire race is garbage.

Just like when you have ten million stops go without incident, but if 10 go awry, the entire police force is typecast as garbage.