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Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

50 years ago mobs of people threatened to burn people's houses down that flew the American flag.

Are "mobs of people" threatening to do that today? I see one unsubstantiated claim from one guy.

What COULD someone's motivation be to spread fear-mongering about a racial justice movement?? So weird.

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Armybrat
Armybrat

Jesus Christ, you are so fucking wrong. I am goddamned done trying to talk to you rationionally.

blacklab
blacklab

You can post videos, some of which are inside tweets that have other content. Post a tweet that's all political content with a random static image, you're taking a day off like elguapo is I

clapclapclap
clapclapclap

Can y'all stop arguing in circles with BT and Brisket?  Make your point and move on.  Their whole game is to filibuster and spam a thread with endless posts until the vids, pics, and news they don't l

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Are "mobs of people" threatening to do that today? I see one unsubstantiated claim from one guy.

What COULD someone's motivation be to spread fear-mongering about a racial justice movement?? So weird.

Yeah, you're right, no mobs telling people they're gonna burn their houses.. it was just all of their businesses that they DID fucking burn.

 I guess all those BLM folks telling other folks (white people apparently) to get out of their houses, and give them up is just made up or not supported by BLM, who was doing it at the time, but I guess just not supported by them...when it made it to video.

 

You are the king goal post mover on Surly, so I'll sit back while you move them again in your response....

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Posted
1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah, you're right, no mobs telling people they're gonna burn their houses.. it was just all of their businesses that they DID fucking burn.

"all of their businesses"

More lying Fake News designed to stoke fear and hatred against a racial justice movement. Melodramatic and hysterical grown men desperate to feel something, but they choose rage and fear. #Sad

Quote

I guess all those BLM folks telling other folks (white people apparently) to get out of their houses, and give them up is just made up or not supported by BLM, who was doing it at the time, but I guess just not supported by them...when it made it to video.

How common and widespread was it? How often did it happen? What moves were made to actually force people out of their homes?

Quote

You are the king goal post mover on Surly, so I'll sit back while you move them again in your response....

What goalposts did I move.

A small fraction of BLM-sympathetic demonstrators have destroyed property and acted a fool in general. People like you and many in this thread try desperately to make it seem like it's happening constantly everywhere because you are opposed to a racial justice movement.

You guys keep lying, I'll keep pointing out the lies.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

How many does it need to be, before you consider it a problem?

That's kind of vague, but it's a good conversation-starter and I appreciate it.

For us? It's not a problem at all. None of us are going to be impacted by any of this stuff. Even if there are full-on riots when Chauvin is eventually exonerated pretty much none of us will experience it in day-to-day life. But that's true of a lot of stuff we discuss.

For the nation? A mild problem. It's not very widespread in terms of area, it's not very common in terms of frequency and the flare-ups are predictable.

These looters/rioters/jerks/whatever aren't really killing people (very very few, and even 1 is too many) and they aren't really hurting many people, so that would make all this property destruction and yelling a much bigger problem. Which is great, because peace is the goal.

For the relatively small number of people whose businesses have been damaged/destroyed? A massive problem.

What about you? What do you think?

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Thatguy

Thatguy 9293

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Sandy Vag is extra raw today....notice how he totally glossed over his earlier bullshit lie about how 50 years ago people threatened to burn houses displaying the American flag....

Perhaps no issue epitomized the controversial nature of the American flag during the 1960s more than flag burning. When some burned the flag to protest government policies, others rushed to defend the flag from attack. State laws against flag desecration originally passed in the late 1800s were revived and enforced. In 1968, Congress passed the Federal Flag Desecration Law, making it a federal crime to “knowingly cast contempt upon any flag of the United States by publicly mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning, or trampling upon it.”

 

https://amhistory.si.edu/starspangledbanner/the-flag-in-the-sixties.aspx

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Hate

Hate 20232

Posted
Posted
Perhaps no issue epitomized the controversial nature of the American flag during the 1960s more than flag burning. When some burned the flag to protest government policies, others rushed to defend the flag from attack. State laws against flag desecration originally passed in the late 1800s were revived and enforced. In 1968, Congress passed the Federal Flag Desecration Law, making it a federal crime to “knowingly cast contempt upon any flag of the United States by publicly mutilating, defacing, defiling, burning, or trampling upon it.”
 
https://amhistory.si.edu/starspangledbanner/the-flag-in-the-sixties.aspx

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

What about you? What do you think?

I don't know. Aside from Covid concerns, I have quite literally 0 problem with the daytime (peaceful) protests.  I actually think they are good for the country, let peoples voices be heard, knowing there are many that feel like them, etc.  I think there was ALOT of positive that came from the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people that protested over the last few months.   Stealing from stores is bullshit.  I think the stopping traffic on the highway is bullshit.  Screaming at people in restaurants is bullshit.  While it wouldn't do anything more than piss me off, my wife would have a fucking panic attack if several dozen people cascaded into a restaurant with bullhorns, flipping tables and shit.  But on the whole, not the worst things in the world.    Threatening to burn someones house down?  The place where my wife and children sleep?  Shoot them in the gut and leave them in the fucking street. That person provides nothing to society, and obviously places no value on the lives of others.    That person making threats is the only one undermining anyone's movement or talking point (how can black lives matter if the lives in my house don't?).   And over a flag? gtfo.  I've traveled and lived all over this fucked up world.  90% of the people that hate this country couldn't make it outside of it.   That dude could catch on fire and I couldn't muster up a good piss to put him out.  Fuck him. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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11 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Threatening to burn someones house down?  The place where my wife and children sleep?  Shoot them in the gut and leave them in the fucking street.

"Shut the fuck up. Nobody here has cheered it." - Hate

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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That person provides nothing to society, and obviously places no value on the lives of others.    That person making threats is the only one undermining anyone's movement or talking point (how can black lives matter if the lives in my house don't?).   And over a flag? gtfo.  I've traveled and lived all over this fucked up world.  90% of the people that hate this country couldn't make it outside of it.   That dude could catch on fire and I couldn't muster up a good piss to put him out.  Fuck him. 

I meant in terms of whether or not it is "a problem", not what you think.

While I don't think the extrajudicial murder of pricks is a good goal, I think they're assholes who need to cut it out. But I don't think they're a real danger or problem in the country. Do you?

 

 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"Shut the fuck up. Nobody here has cheered it." - Hate

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I meant in terms of whether or not it is "a problem", not what you think.

While I don't think the extrajudicial murder of pricks is a good goal, I think they're assholes who need to cut it out. But I don't think they're a real danger or problem in the country. Do you?

 

 

Yes I believe its a problem.  It is undermining their goals, to some people.  I'm pretty much a law and order guy.  I find myself pretty upset with the cops and their tactics during the day, and laughing as they crack skulls of these assholes at night.  I don't believe looting is the "voice of the unheard".  It's the voice of the opportunist, thief, and shitheel.  

And yeah, you threaten to kill someone and their family.  Fuck them, shoot em. I'll stand by that all day.  Serious question.  What kind of reform can you expect out of someone who will threaten to come back and burn your house down because you display a flag?  Fuck him, replace him with someone from somewhere that actually sucks and give them a chance at making the world better.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yes I believe its a problem.  It is undermining their goals, to some people.  I'm pretty much a law and order guy.  I find myself pretty upset with the cops and their tactics during the day, and laughing as they crack skulls of these assholes at night.  I don't believe looting is the "voice of the unheard".  It's the voice of the opportunist, thief, and shitheel.  

And yeah, you threaten to kill someone and their family.  Fuck them, shoot em. I'll stand by that all day.  Serious question.  What kind of reform can you expect out of someone who will threaten to come back and burn your house down because you display a flag?  Fuck him, replace him with someone from somewhere that actually sucks and give them a chance at making the world better.

I don't know what the bolded portion means.

Are you talking about the individual making a threat being reformed into a better person? Or are you talking about the individual making a threat being someone who he himself is going to actually enact reforms?

If the first, I think decent people say and do bad shit.
If the second, I don't think the guy who said that has any power so I don't think the question is relevant.

Regarding the constant murder fantasies, it speaks to what I was talking about earlier. It's horrifically toxic and destructive.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Regarding the constant murder fantasies, it speaks to what I was talking about earlier. It's horrifically toxic and destructive.

No fantasy here, brother.  I would much rather the guy not threatened to burn the other gentlemens house down.  But, since it appears we cant have civil things, I'm siding with the homeowner.  Fuck the other guy, who has shown us he has no regard for civility, or life. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Just now, fattyflattie said:

No fantasy here, brother.  I would much rather the guy not threatened to burn the other gentlemens house down.  But, since it appears we cant have civil things, I'm siding with the homeowner.  Fuck the other guy, who has shown us he has no regard for civility, or life. 

We can't? Your ability to behave in a way you believe is consistent with your values depends on literally every other human on earth doing it first?

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
Just now, bad_teammate said:

We can't? Your ability to behave in a way you believe is consistent with your values depends on literally every other human on earth doing it first?

Well, it appears that you and I can.  But we aren't the ones out burning, looting, and threatening.  I don't need anyone else to determine my values.  But I also don't need to value someone that would threaten someone else like that.  

I'm all for having discussion B_T, but this one liner DD act is tiresome.  Give me a paragraph to read and think on. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Posted
15 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Well, it appears that you and I can.  But we aren't the ones out burning, looting, and threatening.  I don't need anyone else to determine my values.  But I also don't need to value someone that would threaten someone else like that. 

Yes, you do, otherwise you have no actual ethics worth listening to. Not trying to be an asshole with that, but it is what it is. You have control of yourself, those other people you don't know and never will know don't control you. You are responsible for yourself; they are not responsible for you.

A massive problem we have with civility (which can be politeness in conversation or adherence to the rules of civil society) is toxic, anger-reinforcing echo chambers. If someone spends a significant amount of time primarily consuming information or commentary that is designed to make them hate/fear a group they already hated/feared. This is why I asked what the intention was behind the same people just pounding the fear drums over and over with increasing levels of hyperbole and overreaction.

Back to your opening question, though, in what sense is a guy who says "I WILL BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN FOR HAVING AN AMERICAN FLAG!" a "problem" in a larger sense? Do you believe he represents a large number of other people who would actually do that? Has that been happening and he's just giving voice to it?  Because it seems to me that his primary role in this forum is just to keep the hate-fires burning. I don't think he actually represents any movement.

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Hate

Hate 20232

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, you do, otherwise you have no actual ethics worth listening to. Not trying to be an asshole with that, but it is what it is. You have control of yourself, those other people you don't know and never will know don't control you. You are responsible for yourself; they are not responsible for you.

A massive problem we have with civility (which can be politeness in conversation or adherence to the rules of civil society) is toxic, anger-reinforcing echo chambers. If someone spends a significant amount of time primarily consuming information or commentary that is designed to make them hate/fear a group they already hated/feared. This is why I asked what the intention was behind the same people just pounding the fear drums over and over with increasing levels of hyperbole and overreaction.

Back to your opening question, though, in what sense is a guy who says "I WILL BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN FOR HAVING AN AMERICAN FLAG!" a "problem" in a larger sense? Do you believe he represents a large number of other people who would actually do that? Has that been happening and he's just giving voice to it?  Because it seems to me that his primary role in this forum is just to keep the hate-fires burning. I don't think he actually represents any movement.

Go spend some time in the Ruth Ginsburg thread. 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

I don't think he actually represents any movement.

I don't either.   But I do believe him, and a sizable amount of Americans share the same disdain for this country, civics, and hell, probably you and me.  I'm certain he aligns with several movements.  Does that undermine those movements, or their purpose?  No.  But if the movement ever becomes run by a majority of folks like him, then yeah, fuck that movement.  

At the end of the day, what the fuck was he trying to accomplish?  To strike fear into someone minding their own business, who happens to show pride in their country by flying a flag?  That's the minimum reaction he was attempting to provoke.  Every single thing he did was un-Amercian.  I'm not rooting for the gun owner to burn him down right there on the spot, but if he had, meh.  That's all.  No fantasy.  I would expect the same if I came to your house and acted like that.  It was a stupid game, and you know exactly what that wins you.  

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Hate said:

Go spend some time in the Ruth Ginsburg thread. 

Sure. If you look in that thread you'll see I'm far from orthodox in terms of my beliefs about the groups involved in that entire drama. Let's have that conversation there, though, since it's political.

Just now, fattyflattie said:

At the end of the day, what the fuck was he trying to accomplish?

The same thing that many posters here attempt to accomplish when they say similar things: Express rage. He was saying, "FUCK YOU!" to the other guy.

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I would expect the same if I came to your house and acted like that.

No you wouldn't. You're saying something you don't believe. You do not actually believe a just penalty for a threat is death.

Just like that guy doesn't actually believe the flag-guy's house should literally be burned down. It's just rage expressed without reason or maturity.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4640

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Posted
4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Just like that guy doesn't actually believe the flag-guy's house should literally be burned down.

Neither of us are certain about that. 

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's just rage expressed without reason or maturity.

And herein lies the problem.  The guy needs to get a grip on life, before he gives an unplanned donation of his. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Posted
25 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Neither of us are certain about that.

Did the house get burned down?

When people are mad, they say and do things that they normally wouldn't and that violate what they would consider to be their code of ethics. That's true of many demonstrators. That's true of many posters.

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Moby Ric

Moby Ric 2058

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I find it hilarious that BT started another one of these threads in the political forum and called everyone in the DT thread right wing morons and lying cowards, but yet he still can't stay away. It's almost as if he's being completely disingenuous, weird. 

That's where he goes to cry.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13479

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Posted

Posting the same picture over and over again in an active attempt to derail someone else's conversation seems like it would be considered "shitposting", but what do I know?

On topic, what culpability does the state have in a situation it knows is coming and is actively causing itself?

------------------------------
Greg Fischer, the mayor of Louisville, Ky., said Tuesday he has declared a state of emergency for the city "due to the potential for civil unrest."

Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron is poised to announce whether his office will bring charges against the police officers who fatally shot 26-year-old Breonna Taylor during a botched narcotics raid at her home on March 13.

The mayor reiterated he has no insight about when Cameron's decision will be announced, but he said the city must be prepared.
------------------------------

What are people supposed to do when peaceful protest doesn't work?

2 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I find it hilarious that BT started another one of these threads in the political forum and called everyone in the DT thread right wing morons and lying cowards, but yet he still can't stay away. It's almost as if he's being completely disingenuous, weird. 

Not "everyone", just many, but why would that absolutely true reality keep me away? I know a lot of people are only comfortable talking to people who agree with them, but that's not me. You're kind of proving the "coward" part of it for me, bud. :)

I'd rather be challenged than agreed with.

Everyone has political beliefs, but I'm assuming the purpose of DT is to not talk about those directly and instead try to focus on larger ideas without constantly getting bogged down in parties and politicians. If y'all want to talk parties/politicians y'all can meet me there. I even started a thread encouraging it. :)

 

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Captainant

Captainant 28387

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

I find it hilarious that BT started another one of these threads in the political forum and called everyone in the DT thread right wing morons and lying cowards, but yet he still can't stay away. It's almost as if he's being completely disingenuous, weird. 

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