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Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

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Armybrat
Armybrat

Jesus Christ, you are so fucking wrong. I am goddamned done trying to talk to you rationionally.

blacklab
blacklab

You can post videos, some of which are inside tweets that have other content. Post a tweet that's all political content with a random static image, you're taking a day off like elguapo is I

clapclapclap
clapclapclap

Can y'all stop arguing in circles with BT and Brisket?  Make your point and move on.  Their whole game is to filibuster and spam a thread with endless posts until the vids, pics, and news they don't l

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Hate

Hate 20103

Posted
Posted

I would argue it was the million man march and the constant peaceful pressure applied that led to the changes e saw in the 60’s. I wasn’t alive for it, but I’ve always been just stunned and appalled that people were actually sprayed with fire hoses and all of the other things that were done. I’ve grown up seeing those Images and always found it utterly disgusting that could happen. I will admit that while I was disgusted at what happened to Rodney King I also fell for the “he was on drugs” line. I absolutely believe that police should treaty people more compassionately. I think the images of George Floyd slowly being choked to death were enough for a lot of people to come to the same conclusions I have and support real change. But then the riots start and people lose focus whether they should or not. It’s been 4 months and there have been many peaceful protests but how much attention have they gathered? Here we are still talking about riots rather than a march on Washington for change that we all can support and get behind. Where is the “I have a dream” moment to capture the despair but also to provide hope? You won’t find it burning buildings, cars, and assaulting people. Do you think that couple at the restaurant a few posts up are more likely to support change after that event or less likely?

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Captainant

Captainant 27467

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Hate said:

I would argue it was the million man march and the constant peaceful pressure applied that led to the changes e saw in the 60’s. I wasn’t alive for it, but I’ve always been just stunned and appalled that people were actually sprayed with fire hoses and all of the other things that were done. I’ve grown up seeing those Images and always found it utterly disgusting that could happen. I will admit that while I was disgusted at what happened to Rodney King I also fell for the “he was on drugs” line. I absolutely believe that police should treaty people more compassionately. I think the images of George Floyd slowly being choked to death were enough for a lot of people to come to the same conclusions I have and support real change. But then the riots start and people lose focus whether they should or not. It’s been 4 months and there have been many peaceful protests but how much attention have they gathered? Here we are still talking about riots rather than a march on Washington for change that we all can support and get behind. Where is the “I have a dream” moment to capture the despair but also to provide hope? You won’t find it burning buildings, cars, and assaulting people. Do you think that couple at the restaurant a few posts up are more likely to support change after that event or less likely?

Well historically speaking, MLK was in the right place at the right time to make a difference. If he did not have strong legislative support then there would not have been any meaningful change. If you'll recall, the passage of the civil rights act was not the cure-all and there were still marches afterwards because institutional and legal racism is still strong and alive in America. 

It's naive to expect any legislative changes to happen in this congress. The senate has over 400 bills passed by the house sitting on their desk that haven't even been deliberated, much less voted on. You really think sweeping legislative reform won't die on the vine when it's a feature (not a bug) that our nation is criminally prosecuting a cop for the crime of FAILING TO SHOOT A BLACK PERSON IN THEIR OWN HOME, and has protected the systems and individuals that directly led to Breonna's death?

Nothing will change because many people feel that nothing should change. Just read the tenor of this thread.

"it's a tragedy but the cops have to defend themselves..."

"It was a legal warrant, so the cops did nothing wrong..."

People are reaching and stretching for justifications for the slaying of a woman in her own home by the police who were searching for someone they had already apprehended. The fact that people defend it is why the law will never be changed. 

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Thatguy

Thatguy 8505

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Hate said:

I would argue it was the million man march and the constant peaceful pressure applied that led to the changes e saw in the 60’s. I wasn’t alive for it, but I’ve always been just stunned and appalled that people were actually sprayed with fire hoses and all of the other things that were done. I’ve grown up seeing those Images and always found it utterly disgusting that could happen. I will admit that while I was disgusted at what happened to Rodney King I also fell for the “he was on drugs” line. I absolutely believe that police should treaty people more compassionately. I think the images of George Floyd slowly being choked to death were enough for a lot of people to come to the same conclusions I have and support real change. But then the riots start and people lose focus whether they should or not. It’s been 4 months and there have been many peaceful protests but how much attention have they gathered? Here we are still talking about riots rather than a march on Washington for change that we all can support and get behind. Where is the “I have a dream” moment to capture the despair but also to provide hope? You won’t find it burning buildings, cars, and assaulting people. Do you think that couple at the restaurant a few posts up are more likely to support change after that event or less likely?

   The 60's had as many riots as peaceful demonstrations. People of that era thought MLK was Satan and a communist. The dialogue of the day was the same as the dialogue now. People used the supposed "MLK is a communist so therefore I cannot support what he is pushing" just the same as they do today. We are literally repeating history, but take the letters MLK and replace them with BLM.

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Fondren & Main

Fondren & Main 6670

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   The 60's had as many riots as peaceful demonstrations. People of that era thought MLK was Satan and a communist. The dialogue of the day was the same as the dialogue now. People used the supposed "MLK is a communist so therefore I cannot support what he is pushing" just the same as they do today. We are literally repeating history, but take the letters MLK and replace them with BLM.

Lol

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Thatguy

Thatguy 8505

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Lol

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-martin-luther-king-had-75-percent-disapproval-rating-year-he-died-180968664/

"According to an early 1968 Harris Poll, the man whose half-century of martyrdom we celebrate this week died with a public disapproval rating of nearly 75 percent, a figure shocking in its own day and still striking even in today’s highly polarized political climate."

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Thatguy

Thatguy 8505

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Lol

https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/federal-bureau-investigation-fbi

 

"The FBI initially monitored King under its Racial Matters Program, which focused on individuals and organizations involved in racial politics. Although the FBI raised concerns as early as March 1956, that King was associating with card-carrying members of the Communist Party, King’s alleged ties with communism did not become the focus of FBI investigations under the existing Communist Infiltration Program, designed to investigate groups and individuals subject to Communist infiltration, until 1962. In February 1962, Hoover told Attorney General Robert Kennedy that Stanley Levison, one of King’s closest advisors, was “a secret member of the Communist Party” (Hoover, 14 February 1962). In the following months, Hoover deployed agents to find subversive material on King, and Robert Kennedy authorized wiretaps on King’s home and Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) offices in October 1963."

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Lol.  We've certainly stocked up on crazy here.

Then explain the rational truth behind your response.

Because it seems like the only functional purpose of your trolling is to attempt to distract from the reality of MLK's history and the history of the black civil rights movement in general and also the parallels between those times and the current situation.

Undeniable facts:
- MLK was very unpopular.
- MLK was terrorized by the federal government.
- MLK was blackmailed by the government and told to commit suicide
- MLK was maligned by anti-civil-rights forces as a Communist, socialists, and violent thugs

This is all reality, and it's playing out again. Right now, today, a rising black equality and civil rights movement is being howled at anti-civil-rights forces as Communists, socialists, and violent thugs. Some of those forces are astute enough to be concern trolls about it ("Oh I don't like that I have to constantly criticize and smear them, I just CARE SO MUCH about black equality that I must do it!") of course, but they're functionally identical to their outright white supremacist cousins.

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Hate

Hate 20103

Posted
Posted
Then explain the rational truth behind your response.
Because it seems like the only functional purpose of your trolling is to attempt to distract from the reality of MLK's history and the history of the black civil rights movement in general and also the parallels between those times and the current situation.
Undeniable facts:
- MLK was very unpopular.
- MLK was terrorized by the federal government.
- MLK was blackmailed by the government and told to commit suicide
- MLK was maligned by anti-civil-rights forces as a Communist, socialists, and violent thugs
This is all reality, and it's playing out again. Right now, today, a rising black equality and civil rights movement is being howled at anti-civil-rights forces as Communists, socialists, and violent thugs. Some of those forces are astute enough to be concern trolls about it ("Oh I don't like that I have to constantly criticize and smear them, I just CARE SO MUCH about black equality that I must do it!") of course, but they're functionally identical to their outright white supremacist cousins.

That was a generation that existed before civil rights and with segregation. I can’t speak for anyone here, but I’ve always been appalled that such a society exist. I grew up in a multi cultural environment where nobody really saw color (my friends...maybe not their parents). I would argue that an MLK like leader of this current generation would not be marginalized that way...but maybe I’m just hopeful and naive.
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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Hate said:

I would argue that an MLK like leader of this current generation would not be marginalized that way...but maybe I’m just hopeful and naive.

Maybe. But we haven't seen one yet. I'm sure they exist and are doing hard work behind the scenes. But that's not what Cable News wants. They want fire. Bodies. Riots. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27467

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Hate said:

That was a generation that existed before civil rights and with segregation. I can’t speak for anyone here, but I’ve always been appalled that such a society exist. I grew up in a multi cultural environment where nobody really saw color (my friends...maybe not their parents). I would argue that an MLK like leader of this current generation would not be marginalized that way...but maybe I’m just hopeful and naive.

The last Gallup poll on MLK before he was assassinated (conducted 1966) was 63% unfavorable - two years after the passing of the Civil Rights Act and a year after the Voting Right Act (RIP). MLK was absolutely marginalized and cast as an extremist by the conservative/"law and order" wing of the country. We've been posting decades-old political comics showing King and Civil Rights movement as a whole being denigrated with the same talking points and rhetoric being used in this thread and the other hang-out threads for the "blue lives matter" crowd.

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The last Gallup poll on MLK before he was assassinated (conducted 1966) was 63% unfavorable - two years after the passing of the Civil Rights Act and a year after the Voting Right Act (RIP). MLK was absolutely marginalized and cast as an extremist by the conservative/"law and order" wing of the country. We've been posting decades-old political comics showing King and Civil Rights movement as a whole being denigrated with the same talking points and rhetoric being used in this thread and the other hang-out threads for the "blue lives matter" crowd.

Which means more than 70% of white people had an unfavorable opinion of Dr. King.

White people pretending they revered Dr. King is the equivalent of if Colin Kaepernick got assassinated and suddenly all of white America started pretending that he was a hero of race relations to them.

I guess it does answer the question that minorities keep asking of "if we can't protest peacefully and we can't protest angrily, what do we need to do to get your respect and attention?". The answer is you have to die first. Muhammed Ali is a similar arc as well.

Edited by BradInATX
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Captainant

Captainant 27467

Posted
Posted
Just now, BradInATX said:

Which means more than 70% of white people had an unfavorable opinion of Dr. King.

White people pretending they revered Dr. King is the equivalent of if Colin Kaepernick got assassinated and suddenly all of white America started pretending that he was a hero of race relations to them.

I guess it does answer the question that minorities keep asking of "if we can't protest peacefully and we can't protest angrily, what do we need to do to get your respect and attention?". The answer is you have to die first.

It's almost like rioting is the language of the unheard

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Poe It Up

Poe It Up 126

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, BNB said:

"Kill All Cops And Their Family"

In that NYTIMES articled I linked yesterday, There was also this quote in there:

I googled those titles, They come from An Anarchists Library.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/narcissa-black-kcbg-and-annonymous-others-i-want-to-kill-cops-until-i-m-dead

 

Jesus, just replace the word cop with Jew and you have Mein Kampf. 

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Hate said:

That was a generation that existed before civil rights and with segregation. I can’t speak for anyone here, but I’ve always been appalled that such a society exist. I grew up in a multi cultural environment where nobody really saw color (my friends...maybe not their parents). I would argue that an MLK like leader of this current generation would not be marginalized that way...but maybe I’m just hopeful and naive.

"this current generation" is vague.

Let's narrow it down: How do you think a modern copy of MLK would be received by white men ages 30-50?

A charismatic, socialist-friendly black pastor from the deep south who leads hundreds/thousands of people in marches and encourages them to non-violently break laws by occupying buildings, interrupting traffic, and interfering with commerce...

You and I both know exactly what that demographic's reaction would be to MLK 2.0. You can try pass it off as naivete if you want but literally no one believes that even if you've completely deluded yourself. It's too obvious to ignore.

Are things "better" now? Yes, they are. As MLK said the arc of history is long but it bends towards justice. So while the sides have progressed in 2020 from 1960, it's still very clear which side people are on and you can "I'm just a simple country poster" all day but you know damned well which side of that you're on.

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Maybe. But we haven't seen one yet. I'm sure they exist and are doing hard work behind the scenes. But that's not what Cable News wants. They want fire. Bodies. Riots. 

Cable news just wants viewers. It's the viewers who want fire, bodies, and riots. If the viewers wanted positivity and peaceful protest, that's what cable news would give them.

Look at this thread in the lead up to last night's reaction to the no-bill on Breonna Taylor's murderer. The same cast of characters drooling in anticipation of violence and mayhem, reposting the same old grifter news sources, eager to find anything they can to dunk on their hated rivals on the forum and validate their hostility towards the largest black equality movement going on.

Quoting myself here from pages back: You guys exist in social media bubbles you curate to piss yourselves off then you come here to yell at the only liberals in your lives who you have access to once you get yourselves pissed off enough.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40744

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Which means more than 70% of white people had an unfavorable opinion of Dr. King.

White people pretending they revered Dr. King is the equivalent of if Colin Kaepernick got assassinated and suddenly all of white America started pretending that he was a hero of race relations to them.

I guess it does answer the question that minorities keep asking of "if we can't protest peacefully and we can't protest angrily, what do we need to do to get your respect and attention?". The answer is you have to die first. Muhammed Ali is a similar arc as well.

Well, The FBI did spy on MLK and regarded him as an agitator.

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Hate said:


That was a generation that existed before civil rights and with segregation. I can’t speak for anyone here, but I’ve always been appalled that such a society exist. I grew up in a multi cultural environment where nobody really saw color (my friends...maybe not their parents). I would argue that an MLK like leader of this current generation would not be marginalized that way...but maybe I’m just hopeful and naive.

bolded #1: it exists right now. how can you not see it?

bolded #2: naive or ignorant, you decide. look at the response from white america when famous black people use their platform to protest against inequalities. MLK would be reviled by much of white america. the reason is because there are a fuckton of racists in this country.

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gernblansten

gernblansten 3188

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


I truly don’t get it. I really don’t, except that it involves a failure/inability to step out of yourself and realize there are completely different experiences out there. Which is not an uncommon human path...but we can do better.

Nearly 400 years of treating blacks people as less than fully human, fully American. And we don’t think there continues to be an enormous institutional hangover from that? Seriously? It’s preposterous NOT to think so.

And then layer on one of our most broken systems, law enforcement...and again, come on.

Why do we spend 1000x more energy denying the issue and doing all we can to distract and deflect....instead of just fucking working to fix it?

First and foremost, I celebrate your entire catalog of Shank-like delicacies.  Second, I think your message would reach more people and could actually make changes in society from an official position instead of just being Brisketexan on Surly with one extreme segment agreeing with everything you post and another extreme segment thinking you've lost your mind.  Have you considered expending your energy running for office to fix the problems you've identified?  If you're Senator Brisket, you'll still have the same extreme segments loving or loathing you, but there are plenty of good, rational, reasonable, folks in the middle who need good leaders to effect change.  

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dcar00

dcar00 14036

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, gernblansten said:

First and foremost, I celebrate your entire catalog of Shank-like delicacies.  Second, I think your message would reach more people and could actually make changes in society from an official position instead of just being Brisketexan on Surly with one extreme segment agreeing with everything you post and another extreme segment thinking you've lost your mind.  Have you considered expending your energy running for office to fix the problems you've identified?  If you're Senator Brisket, you'll still have the same extreme segments loving or loathing you, but there are plenty of good, rational, reasonable, folks in the middle who need good leaders to effect change.  

Brisket for Mayor!

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15213

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Many of you on this thread need to get off social media and watch the social dilemma on Netflix.

Brisket, I am looking directly at you as I've seen you continue to spiral down the fucking wormhole of extreme volatility in reaction to all things. You, in particular need a fucking break from all fucking social media. Right now. You are headed down a very destructive path. 

The specific polarized effect they speak of is amazingly prevalent in this thread. 

The AI is winning. This board is evidence, this thread exemplifies it. 

The middle ground folks like me feel further and more alone lost between the gulfs of extreme because that is exactly what is occuring. I was going to I write a long post on this yesterday, but the doc tells it far, far better 

Social media and the money machine AI is going fucking end us all if we don't change and disconnect. 

Then what are all the sanctimonious narcissists going to do with their time?

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

"this current generation" is vague.

Let's narrow it down: How do you think a modern copy of MLK would be received by white men ages 30-50?

A charismatic, socialist-friendly black pastor from the deep south who leads hundreds/thousands of people in marches and encourages them to non-violently break laws by occupying buildings, interrupting traffic, and interfering with commerce...

You and I both know exactly what that demographic's reaction would be to MLK 2.0. You can try pass it off as naivete if you want but literally no one believes that even if you've completely deluded yourself. It's too obvious to ignore.

 

 

"Look, I'm not a racist. I have black friends. And I totally support their right to protest, but they just can't be out there in the middle of the street. Honestly this hurts their cause with me, and I don't have a racist bone in my body. Frankly, if they get run over, they deserved it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

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Captainant

Captainant 27467

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Many of you on this thread need to get off social media and watch the social dilemma on Netflix.

Brisket, I am looking directly at you as I've seen you continue to spiral down the fucking wormhole of extreme volatility in reaction to all things. You, in particular need a fucking break from all fucking social media. Right now. You are headed down a very destructive path. 

The specific polarized effect they speak of is amazingly prevalent in this thread. 

The AI is winning. This board is evidence, this thread exemplifies it. 

The middle ground folks like me feel further and more alone lost between the gulfs of extreme because that is exactly what is occuring. I was going to I write a long post on this yesterday, but the doc tells it far, far better 

Social media and the money machine AI is going fucking end us all if we don't change and disconnect. 

Guess who's manipulating social media to incite civil unrest! Hmmm let's see if we can remember who's funding cambridge analytica and has been the entity actively stirring that pot.

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Brisket is not in the middle. 

Brisket is in the extreme. You like his thoughts because you are too.

he's most definitely in the middle politically. and he has extreme views about the well-being of this country...3 years ago i mocked him for those views. he was, without question, 100% correct.

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Thatguy

Thatguy 8505

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

bolded #1: it exists right now. how can you not see it?

bolded #2: naive or ignorant, you decide. look at the response from white america when famous black people use their platform to protest against inequalities. MLK would be reviled by much of white america. the reason is because there are a fuckton of racists in this country.

  Lebron James married his high school sweetheart, and has been seemingly unscathed his entire career, and he cannot say something without people dragging his ass.

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