So, am I getting another $3900 check? Should I?

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

2 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

It's a livable wage dependent on where you live. I'm still struggling with the idea of a salaried starting position...

I hate time clocks. I think it’s demeaning and unprofessional in an office setting. Conveys the wrong message imo. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

He said living wage. A single person can live on $25K per year (not super comfortably or extravagantly, but they can live on it), depending on the locality. You can live on $25K in Omaha. You can't live on $25K in San Francisco.

Yeah. Suburbs around Houston. Entry level job. 24, 6 months later 30, 6 months after that 36 (if they work out).  I promise you that’s more than anyone else is starting 25 year old receptionists at. 
Like- the people I’m hiring have a previous job as a grocery store cashier, a car hop at sonic, a waitress at a bar, a nail salon tech- shit like that. It’s young people wanting to get into an office job/profession. 
The sonic girl worked herself into a 75k job in the industry last I heard from her. Over the course of 8 or 10 years (not with me- I topped her out at 42 after 2.5 years). She got promoted beyond her capability to function (I was happy for her, but wasn’t going to put her in a position over her head. 
every single employee I’ve ever hired (and I’ve hired more than 50- I’ve taken out to lunch in the first 2 weeks and had a discussion with them about career path and where they’d ultimately like to see themselves end up. 
But- that’s a professional setting. I don’t think that you can do that with kids at a campsite, or line cooks at McDonald’s or the like. Maybe you can, I’d sure try if that was my thing, but seems really tough. 

[Rougarou 594]

I’m not a poor, but that’s only because I’m lucky, so I won’t be getting any money. That said, Covid-19 is proving out UBI as a model. I honestly wonder if Yang wouldn’t have been able to be the dark horse and steal the Dem nomination if covid would have happened sooner.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Rougarou

[Nivek 17330]

 

3 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

This is a good point as well. My company was in Houston and served pretty much all of SE Texas. $15 an hour isn't baller status by any means, but none of my guys were on food stamps either. In California, I'd put it somewhere in the 20s depending on the area. 

It is not a good point.  That is akin to telling everyone that you are really excited because the restaurant has utensils.   

In Houston the average rent is $1100 (Source )  but lets say she get's a place for $700, has health insurance ($200), food ($250), utilities, ($130),  cell ($60), fuel ($80), car insurance ($100),  car payment ($200 - equivalent to the payment of $11000 car for 5 years at 3%), taxes (I consider SS/Med taxes), and our hypothetical young lady has $50 left over.   

Do you consider a $50 slush fund a living wage?   

Additional source for utilities, food, etc.car insurance rates Cell phone rate (2018) health insurance cost with subsidy

[Nivek 17330]

49 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

every single employee I’ve ever hired (and I’ve hired more than 50- I’ve taken out to lunch in the first 2 weeks and had a discussion with them about career path and where they’d ultimately like to see themselves end up. 
 

Let me be clear.  I think you are probably a good guy.   I get that one cannot always afford to pay what they wish they could, and giving opportunities is a good thing.  I am only taking issue with the definition of a living wage.

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

28 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Let me be clear.  I think you are probably a good guy.   I get that one cannot always afford to pay what they wish they could, and giving opportunities is a good thing.  I am only taking issue with the definition of a living wage.

A living wage doesn’t mean you have all your wants and desires met, nor able to self actualize. If you are 23 years old and. It a college grad and at the basic entry level position being able to have a roof over your head, car and food on the table is a living wage. Can you rent your own apartment or house on that?  Not likely. But you can get a 2/2 in the suburbs with a roommate and your housing costs you ~$500 a month with utilities, and that leaves enough left over to pay for your transportation and food. 
Living wage doesn’t mean anything more than I can support myself on this salary/wage. That’s imminently doable as a young single person on that amount of money. It’s your first step into adulthood. It’s guaranteed money bc it’s salary (meaning you have paid sick, vacation, benefits etc), with a defined path to $3,000 a month in a years time, should you demonstrate basic competence (show up to work, on time, with a smile on your face and do what’s asked of you). 
Again, non degreed, non professional and young at an entry level job. The couple people I hired with experience and that were older I just started them at $36k (maybe 40) from the word go. Because they weren’t learning on the job and didn’t require an investment in time or run the risk of them not knowing what is entailed in an office setting. 

[HornOnTheBayou 9056]

Do these entry-level jobs that you describe require a basic grasp of English grammar?

Edited August 2, 2020 by HornOnTheBayou

[BigHorn'13 3480]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I hate time clocks. I think it’s demeaning and unprofessional in an office setting. Conveys the wrong message imo. 

Me too but most companies don't operate this way. 

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah. Suburbs around Houston. Entry level job. 24, 6 months later 30, 6 months after that 36 (if they work out).  I promise you that’s more than anyone else is starting 25 year old receptionists at. 
Like- the people I’m hiring have a previous job as a grocery store cashier, a car hop at sonic, a waitress at a bar, a nail salon tech- shit like that. It’s young people wanting to get into an office job/profession. 
The sonic girl worked herself into a 75k job in the industry last I heard from her. Over the course of 8 or 10 years (not with me- I topped her out at 42 after 2.5 years). She got promoted beyond her capability to function (I was happy for her, but wasn’t going to put her in a position over her head. 
every single employee I’ve ever hired (and I’ve hired more than 50- I’ve taken out to lunch in the first 2 weeks and had a discussion with them about career path and where they’d ultimately like to see themselves end up. 
But- that’s a professional setting. I don’t think that you can do that with kids at a campsite, or line cooks at McDonald’s or the like. Maybe you can, I’d sure try if that was my thing, but seems really tough. 

50% raises in pay after one year just don't happen. If you're in the position to do so, kudos to you. Also like you said, not every job is in a professional setting. 

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

 

It is not a good point.  That is akin to telling everyone that you are really excited because the restaurant has utensils.   

In Houston the average rent is $1100 (Source )  but lets say she get's a place for $700, has health insurance ($200), food ($250), utilities, ($130),  cell ($60), fuel ($80), car insurance ($100),  car payment ($200 - equivalent to the payment of $11000 car for 5 years at 3%), taxes (I consider SS/Med taxes), and our hypothetical young lady has $50 left over.   

Do you consider a $50 slush fund a living wage?   

Additional source for utilities, food, etc.car insurance rates Cell phone rate (2018) health insurance cost with subsidy

The point was that a starting wage needs to be commensurate with the cost of living. 

If the figures you're using comes from when I was hiring people starting at $15 an hour, there's a few items you're accounting for that the people I employed didn't have to factor (like gas since I reimbursed them. $80 would've been for a week with what we were doing.)

Again, by no means is it a great or even good wage. It's doable for some, not enough for others. At least I could recognize this and did what I could. Companies that payout close to the minimum wage are soulless. 

[F250 29175]

On 7/31/2020 at 9:11 PM, Tom said:

I'll happily take my $3900. But first, how do I get my way into the "friends" club and get my millions?

Yeah, fuck this $3900 bullshit. How do I get on the Kushner Million dollar gravy train?

 

[Spankytoes 1748]

11 hours ago, Nivek said:

 

It is not a good point.  That is akin to telling everyone that you are really excited because the restaurant has utensils.   

In Houston the average rent is $1100 (Source )  but lets say she get's a place for $700, has health insurance ($200), food ($250), utilities, ($130),  cell ($60), fuel ($80), car insurance ($100),  car payment ($200 - equivalent to the payment of $11000 car for 5 years at 3%), taxes (I consider SS/Med taxes), and our hypothetical young lady has $50 left over.   

Do you consider a $50 slush fund a living wage?   

Additional source for utilities, food, etc.car insurance rates Cell phone rate (2018) health insurance cost with subsidy

Is there something preventing her from having 1-2 roommates to split costs? How much does she have left over if she does that, which is common? She doesn’t make enough to live alone. The onus is on her to change her earning potential, not the employer to subsidize her entry level job. That ideal defies the basic tenets of capitalism.

[Spankytoes 1748]

@Nivek
 

She rents a 3-bedroom house for $1500 split 3-ways.  Her rent is reduced to $500. Health Insurance stays the same at $200. Food cost increases to $600 split 3-ways, or $200. Utilities increase to $210 split 3-ways or $70. Cell increases to $90 for a family plan split 3-ways or $30. Fuel and car insurance increase to $250 to accommodate 3 drivers, split 3-ways by sharing the policy or $83. Car payment raises to $300 because she wants a reliable car. ($18,000 financed for 5 years at this rate) And then taxes, which you didn’t assign a value for. Let’s assign 28% of her paycheck to this, which is fair. I’m going to add TV, which she can get for free using and HD Antenna and bumming streaming service passwords. Another $25 for internet split 3-ways.

At $15 and 40 hrs. a week, she earns $2,400/mth. She may need 2 jobs to reach 40 hours, which is one of the downsides of being a basic skilled laborer. Take out $672 for taxes. Then take out $500, $200, $200, $70, $30, $83, $300 and $25. She has $320/mth. for incidentals (Car maintenance/repair, new kitchen appliance to share, etc.) entertainment, clothes, sundries, luxury expenses (Booze, fast food), etc. It would be hard to save, but that’s life permanently earning a salary meant for high school/college kids and those content with barely scraping out a living because they don’t want to explore other options.
 

She has a nice roof over her head (An entire house), health insurance, a decent car and all her necessities. But she can’t afford to live alone or spread her legs. If she wants to change that, she will need to aim higher. For the time being she is living comfortably with the ability to lower her costs, if needed. The onus is on her to budget.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Spankytoes

[BradInATX 9208]

[mention=125]Nivek[/mention]   She rents a 3-bedroom house for $1500 split 3-ways.  Her rent is reduced to $500. Health Insurance stays the same at $200. Food cost increases to $600 split 3-ways, or $200. Utilities increase to $210 split 3-ways or $70. Cell increases to $90 for a family plan split 3-ways or $30. Fuel and car insurance increase to $250 to accommodate 3 drivers, split 3-ways by sharing the policy or $83. Car payment raises to $300 because she wants a reliable car. ($18,000 financed for 5 years at this rate) And then taxes, which you didn’t assign a value for. Let’s assign 28% of her paycheck to this, which is fair. I’m going to add TV, which she can get for free using and HD Antenna and bumming streaming service passwords. Another $25 for internet split 3-ways. At $15 and 40 hrs. a week, she earns $2,400/mth. She may need 2 jobs to reach 40 hours, which is one of the downsides of being a basic skilled laborer. Take out $672 for taxes. Then take out $500, $200, $200, $70, $30, $83, $300 and $25. She has $320/mth. for incidentals (Car maintenance/repair, new kitchen appliance to share, etc.) entertainment, clothes, sundries, luxury expenses (Booze, fast food), etc. It would be hard to save, but that’s life permanently earning a salary meant for high school/college kids and those content with barely scraping out a living because they don’t want to explore other options.

 

She has a nice roof over her head (An entire house), health insurance, a decent car and all her necessities. But she can’t afford to live alone or spread her legs. If she wants to change that, she will need to aim higher. For the time being she is living comfortably with the ability to lower her costs, if needed. The onus is on her to budget.

 

 

 

 The fact that you think roommates can get on the same car insurance policy and get any sort of legitimate cost savings shows how out of touch you are with people who aren't white and wealthy. I stopped reading your post there. In what world can a person get insured and pay gas to commute to and from work for $83/month? That's stupid and you're making it obvious that you're not approaching this conversation with integrity. If you have any sort of commute, $83 might cover your gas.. maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[immamac 44199]

12 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 The fact that you think roommates can get on the same car insurance policy and get any sort of legitimate cost savings shows how out of touch you are with people who aren't white and wealthy. I stopped reading your post there. In what world can a person get insured and pay gas to commute to and from work for $83/month? That's stupid and you're making it obvious that you're not approaching this conversation with integrity. If you have any sort of commute, $83 might cover your gas.. maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait wut? Insurance is more expensive if you are colored and poor? News to me as a Mexican who's been both poor and rich on paper. I didn't get the magic rich Mexican discount when I finally made it and my insurance costs just as much as any white/black/orange/purple pendejos insurance. Also, what the fuck do you think insurance costs on an 18k car? For 18k you can get a very new car with a turbo that gets 30+ mpg with a factory warranty. 

It seems like the rich white person out of touch with reality is you. I don't want to defend spankys post as a beacon of truth, but your post that writes off a fair argument is out of line. 

Did you mean to say only white and wealthy folks have the mental capacity to search out deals and cost savings with roommates? Your post reeks of racism sorry I couldn't just get over the smell.

[immamac 44199]

Like seriously. Your post reads like "poor black folks can't help that they are dumb they need help!" 

[BradInATX 9208]

Wait wut? Insurance is more expensive if you are colored and poor? News to me as a Mexican who's been both poor and rich on paper. I didn't get the magic rich Mexican discount when I finally made it and my insurance costs just as much as any white/black/orange/purple pendejos insurance. Also, what the fuck do you think insurance costs on an 18k car? For 18k you can get a very new car with a turbo that gets 30+ mpg with a factory warranty. 
It seems like the rich white person out of touch with reality is you. I don't want to defend spankys post as a beacon of truth, but your post that writes off a fair argument is out of line. 
Did you mean to say only white and wealthy folks have the mental capacity to search out deals and cost savings with roommates? Your post reeks of racism sorry I couldn't just get over the smell.

You think a person of any color can insure their car and fill it with gas for 83 dollars a? month

[Spankytoes 1748]

32 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

 The fact that you think roommates can get on the same car insurance policy and get any sort of legitimate cost savings shows how out of touch you are with people who aren't white and wealthy. I stopped reading your post there. In what world can a person get insured and pay gas to commute to and from work for $83/month? That's stupid and you're making it obvious that you're not approaching this conversation with integrity. If you have any sort of commute, $83 might cover your gas.. maybe.

Or I’ve been married since 1999, with kids, and it is that, not my skin color/income, that makes me out of touch? I haven’t had a roommate since I was 20. (Wife withstanding)  It’s interesting that you assume that though. I finished college at night while waiting tables and raising a family. Then I went to law school at night while holding a 9-5, raising a family and paying a mortgage. Miss me with the “privilege” argument. Hard work overcomes the hand you are dealt and which your decisions are a contributing factor.

Ditch the splitting cost on the car insurance. Raise it back up to $100 like he had it for a singular policy. That to me seems low since you’d need full coverage with auto financing. My kids pay $300 for their policy for full coverage and we own their cars outright.

The $83 was the cost of the policy AND gas. I may not have worded it clearly. $300 for the policy/3 + $150/mth for gas = $250. I did my math wrong on that. Let’s replace it with $150 for the insurance policy and $120 for gas = $270. We’ll scale back the car payments to adjust. Originally, he had $11,000/5 years = $183. Or adjust wherever. Food, utilities, Mortgage, whatever you like.

Same net result. It’s all about staying within your means.
 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Spankytoes

[Spankytoes 1748]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

Like seriously. Your post reads like "poor black folks can't help that they are dumb they need help!" 

YAHTZEE!

Welcome to the Democrat party.

[immamac 44199]

Split 3 ways - 250/mo? 

Carpooling is a thing you know? This thing called ride share isn't a new concept only for the rich.

$3/gal gas 30 miles per gallon 900 miles 90 bucks. 

That leaves 160 for insurance right? So 1920/year for 3 drivers full coverage on a car with 18k in value? Yeah that seems high so let's say they got ripped off and go with that. 

The fact that a bunch of poor people living together can't split a car when they are splitting a house is beyond racist as well. Like what the fuck is wrong with you?

Skin color has nothing to do with being stupid or willingly fucking yourself

[BradInATX 9208]

Like seriously. Your post reads like "poor black folks can't help that they are dumb they need help!" 

It doesn't at all. You're looking for something that isn't there. Spanky is a wealthy white guy that thinks, ridiculously, that one can insure and gas up their car for $83/month. That's all my post said.

[immamac 44199]

You are out of touch with reality if you think spanky is a "rich white guy", but that's also besides the point. 

Just come out and say it. You are a racist piece of shit who doesn't think that black people specifically can think for themselves enough to get by without help from the government. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Or I’ve been married since 1999, with kids, and it is that, not my skin color/income, that makes me out of touch? I haven’t had a roommate since I was 20. (Wife withstanding)  It’s interesting that you assume that though. I finished college at night while waiting tables and raising a family. Then I went to law school at night while holding a 9-5, raising a family and paying a mortgage. Miss me with the “privilege” argument. Hard work overcomes the hand you are dealt and which your decisions are a contributing factor.
Ditch the splitting cost on the car insurance. Raise it back up to $100 like he had it for a singular policy. That to me seems low since you’d need full coverage with auto financing. My kids pay $300 for their policy for full coverage and we own their cars outright.
The $83 was the cost of the policy AND gas. I may not have worded it clearly. $300 for the policy/3 + $150/mth for gas = $250. I did my math wrong on that. Let’s replace it with $150 for the insurance policy and $120 for gas = $270. We’ll scale back the car payments to adjust. Originally, he had $11,000/5 years = $183. Or adjust wherever. Food, utilities, Mortgage, whatever you like.
Same net result. It’s all about staying within your means.
 
 

It took one post to switch to the boot straps argument from your terrible interpretation of the finances of those less privileged than yoy. Gj.

[immamac 44199]

Man fuck off with your bullshit. Spanky is saying willful oppression isnt systemic oppression and you are equating all oppression equally. 

Choosing to spend all your fucking money like an idiot has nothing to do with being forced to spend your money to survive. 

[gmr548 16681]

Lol y'all having this discussion like things like medical bills or auto repairs don't happen. You can't really save a significant amount for those things on a 30-35k annual salary. In a place with COL like Houston, $15/hour is enough to get by with marginal quality of life for a perfectly healthy person with no child or elder care responsibilities for whom nothing ever goes wrong, ever. That's an important qualifier. I'm not really taking a stand on the car insurance rabbit hole, aside from lol @ the idea that roommates would split insurance, fuel, food, or cell expenses. That really is out of touch.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by gmr548

[gmr548 16681]

9 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

Democrat party.

aggy alert

[BradInATX 9208]

You are out of touch with reality if you think spanky is a "rich white guy", but that's also besides the point. 
Just come out and say it. You are a racist piece of shit who doesn't think that black people specifically can think for themselves enough to get by without help from the government. 

What the fuck are you even talking about? Calling out a wealthy white lawyer for being very obviously out of touch with finances of less fortunate people means I hate black people? Don't be a clown.

[Spankytoes 1748]

3 minutes ago, immamac said:

Split 3 ways - 250/mo? 

Carpooling is a thing you know? This thing called ride share isn't a new concept only for the rich.

$3/gal gas 30 miles per gallon 900 miles 90 bucks. 

That leaves 160 for insurance right? So 1920/year for 3 drivers full coverage on a car with 18k in value? Yeah that seems high so let's say they got ripped off and go with that. 

The fact that a bunch of poor people living together can't split a car when they are splitting a house is beyond racist as well. Like what the fuck is wrong with you?

Skin color has nothing to do with being stupid or willingly fucking yourself

Originally, I had considered this scenario. But I thought that 3 people splitting a car payment in a roommate situation may be too far fetched as ownership could come into question and what happens if someone moves out? I also had bus pass/Uber in the event that you can’t bum a ride. I figured I could also move it to a $6000 Point A-B car. But I didn’t want to seem like I was cheating to stretch my point, which was $15/hr is a livable wage. Hell, they asked for that exact amount in NYC, which is a hella more expensive than Houston.

[immamac 44199]

7 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

11 minutes ago, immamac said:

You are out of touch with reality if you think spanky is a "rich white guy", but that's also besides the point. 
Just come out and say it. You are a racist piece of shit who doesn't think that black people specifically can think for themselves enough to get by without help from the government. 

What the fuck are you even talking about? Calling out a wealthy white lawyer for being very obviously out of touch with finances of less fortunate people means I hate black people? Don't be a clown.

You are the clown. Read your God damned post. You made this about (non white) black people not being smart enough to split costs that are within some reason. 

You did that. Not spanky. 

 

[immamac 44199]

You brought race into a non race related argument. That's fucking racism. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Man fuck off with your bullshit. Spanky is saying willful oppression isnt systemic oppression and you are equating all oppression equally. 
Choosing to spend all your fucking money like an idiot has nothing to do with being forced to spend your money to survive. 

I have no idea what you're talking about or how you got yourself all riled up over a post which only served to point out that you can't insure and gas your car for $83. Take a breath.

[BradInATX 9208]

You brought race into a non race related argument. That's fucking racism. 

It's not, unless you don't believe that white privilege is a real thing.

 

[Nivek 17330]

49 minutes ago, Spankytoes said:

@Nivek
 

She rents a 3-bedroom house for $1500 split 3-ways.  Her rent is reduced to $500. Health Insurance stays the same at $200. Food cost increases to $600 split 3-ways, or $200. Utilities increase to $210 split 3-ways or $70. Cell increases to $90 for a family plan split 3-ways or $30. Fuel and car insurance increase to $250 to accommodate 3 drivers, split 3-ways by sharing the policy or $83. Car payment raises to $300 because she wants a reliable car. ($18,000 financed for 5 years at this rate) And then taxes, which you didn’t assign a value for. Let’s assign 28% of her paycheck to this, which is fair. I’m going to add TV, which she can get for free using and HD Antenna and bumming streaming service passwords. Another $25 for internet split 3-ways.

At $15 and 40 hrs. a week, she earns $2,400/mth. She may need 2 jobs to reach 40 hours, which is one of the downsides of being a basic skilled laborer. Take out $672 for taxes. Then take out $500, $200, $200, $70, $30, $83, $300 and $25. She has $320/mth. for incidentals (Car maintenance/repair, new kitchen appliance to share, etc.) entertainment, clothes, sundries, luxury expenses (Booze, fast food), etc. It would be hard to save, but that’s life permanently earning a salary meant for high school/college kids and those content with barely scraping out a living because they don’t want to explore other options.
 

She has a nice roof over her head (An entire house), health insurance, a decent car and all her necessities. But she can’t afford to live alone or spread her legs. If she wants to change that, she will need to aim higher. For the time being she is living comfortably with the ability to lower her costs, if needed. The onus is on her to budget.

I said a living wage.  I am fully aware that a person can socialize their expenses to reduce costs.    We left out a bunch of stuff because we are dudes.  Our clothing, hair, make-up, medical expenses are a bit different.  I have no idea what that shit costs.   This living wage doesn't leave much in the way of savings for black swan events.  One pandemic and an wrong election choice and this woman could be evicted and living in her car.   So is that a living wage?  Or subsistence? 

Lastly, the spread her legs comment is a very indicting phrase to use.  

[Spankytoes 1748]

22 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

30 minutes ago, immamac said:

Like seriously. Your post reads like "poor black folks can't help that they are dumb they need help!" 

It doesn't at all. You're looking for something that isn't there. Spanky is a wealthy white guy that thinks, ridiculously, that one can insure and gas up their car for $83/month. That's all my post said.

What does being white have anything to do with what we’re talking about? I’ll debate the merits of the amounts with you, but perhaps it’s you that needs a reality check. Green is green.

[immamac 44199]

5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I said a living wage.  I am fully aware that a person can socialize their expenses to reduce costs.    We left out a bunch of stuff because we are dudes.  Our clothing, hair, make-up, medical expenses are a bit different.  I have no idea what that shit costs.   This living wage doesn't leave much in the way of savings for black swan events.  One pandemic and an wrong election choice and this woman could be evicted and living in her car.   So is that a living wage?  Or subsistence? 

Lastly, the spread her legs comment is a very indicting phrase to use.  

Agreed with this. I wasn't defending spankys post I was simply saying it's at least a valid introduction of sharing costs.

15/hour is just enough to have everything you need and very few things you want, but that's pretty much it. 

 

[Nivek 17330]

Are you people completely fucking deranged? 

[gmr548 16681]

9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I am fully aware that a person can socialize their expenses to reduce costs.

Obviously the answer is pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, finding a cheap house that may or may not be remotely close to your job or any other significant points in your life, and... Start a commune.

[Spankytoes 1748]

21 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Lol y'all having this discussion like things like medical bills or auto repairs don't happen. You can't really save a significant amount for those things on a 30-35k annual salary. In a place with COL like Houston, $15/hour is enough to get by with marginal quality of life for a perfectly healthy person with no child or elder care responsibilities for whom nothing ever goes wrong, ever. That's an important qualifier. I'm not really taking a stand on the car insurance rabbit hole, aside from lol @ the idea that roommates would split insurance, fuel, food, or cell expenses. That really is out of touch.

 

I accounted for that. (Incidentals, inability to save) She also has subsidized health insurance, which I think is also unrealistic for this scenario. $15/hr doesn’t get you shit beyond basic means. It’s not supposed to.

[BradInATX 9208]

Agreed with this. I wasn't defending spankys post I was simply saying it's at least a valid introduction of sharing costs.
15/hour is just enough to have everything you need and very few things you want, but that's pretty much it. 
 

It's not though, unless you think having clothes, furniture, savings for medical care and car maintenance, and other unexpected costs are not "things you need".
Again, it's out of touch. I'll leave race out so that you don't get flustered again, but it shows an out of touch existence. You can't get a decent cell phone plan for $30/month in a time where many jobs and schools require the use of cell phone data. You can't insure your car and keep gas in it for $83/month. And the $350 "leftover fun money" would barely cover car maintenance. Let alone clothes, necessities, and any sort of recreation.

[immamac 44199]

13 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

It's not, unless you don't believe that white privilege is a real thing.

 

I'm Mexican, literally a Mexican citizen and ethnically, so I wouldn't know anything about this white privilege thing. Unless you are going to do the mental gymnastics that only dark skinned people suffer from this. Are you talking about "light skinned privilege" or "white privilege"? 

So no I don't believe that white people are treated preferentially to me with major corporations that offer insurance etc. 

Now if we are talking about housing applications and shit that is more individual based decisions I can see your point as valid, but there's no such thing as white privilege when it comes to an insurance policy. 

 

[Spankytoes 1748]

15 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I said a living wage.  I am fully aware that a person can socialize their expenses to reduce costs.    We left out a bunch of stuff because we are dudes.  Our clothing, hair, make-up, medical expenses are a bit different.  I have no idea what that shit costs.   This living wage doesn't leave much in the way of savings for black swan events.  One pandemic and an wrong election choice and this woman could be evicted and living in her car.   So is that a living wage?  Or subsistence? 

Lastly, the spread her legs comment is a very indicting phrase to use.  

It was? Don’t become a single mom if you can’t afford to be is controversial? Out of the adults earning a minimum/living wage over the age of 21, what % would you guess are parents? As stated above, I was a waiter with kids. So I myself fall into that demographic. 

[BradInATX 9208]

I'm Mexican, literally a Mexican citizen and ethnically, so I wouldn't know anything about this white privilege thing. Unless you are going to do the mental gymnastics that only dark skinned people suffer from this. Are you talking about "light skinned privilege" or "white privilege"? 
So no I don't believe that white people are treated preferentially to me with major corporations that offer insurance etc. 
Now if we are talking about housing applications and shit that is more individual based decisions I can see your point as valid, but there's no such thing as white privilege when it comes to an insurance policy. 
 

There is. As long as zip code is a usable factor in cost, then race is absolutely part of insurance cost.

[immamac 44199]

2 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

It's not though, unless you think having clothes, furniture, savings for medical care and car maintenance, and other unexpected costs are not "things you need".
Again, it's out of touch. I'll leave race out so that you don't get flustered again, but it shows an out of touch existence. You can't get a decent cell phone plan for $30/month in a time where many jobs and schools require the use of cell phone data. You can't insure your car and keep gas in it for $83/month. And the $350 "leftover fun money" would barely cover car maintenance. Let alone clothes, necessities, and any sort of recreation.

Fuck you literally projecting your racist ass shit at people on this board. 

How much experience do you have with family that literally have DIRT FLOORS AND CANT DRINK THE FUCKING WATER? Cuz me? I've got fucking plenty. 

You talk about being poor like someone who has never been poor. It's actually disgusting. 

Sorry some lady in Houston doesn't have all her first world fucking goodies and everything she wants with her shitty entry level job in air conditioned space without being very physically demanding @ 15/hr.

The only thing I'm out of touch with is trying to understand how racist ass white people who project their notion of poverty onto people who aren't like them because it "is such a shame" or "disgusts" them. News flash white people are fucking poor here too. 

[Spankytoes 1748]

4 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

I'm Mexican, literally a Mexican citizen and ethnically, so I wouldn't know anything about this white privilege thing. Unless you are going to do the mental gymnastics that only dark skinned people suffer from this. Are you talking about "light skinned privilege" or "white privilege"? 
So no I don't believe that white people are treated preferentially to me with major corporations that offer insurance etc. 
Now if we are talking about housing applications and shit that is more individual based decisions I can see your point as valid, but there's no such thing as white privilege when it comes to an insurance policy. 
 

Read more  

There is. As long as zip code is a usable factor in cost, then race is absolutely part of insurance cost.

LOL. Keep digging.

Insurance companies use zip codes to determine their liability should things go south. Your race has nothing to do with this. 

[immamac 44199]

The fact that you feel like you are fighting the good fight or making arguments that the world is so racist so we have to help the non whites because they can't help themselves is bullshit. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Fuck you literally projecting your racist ass shit at people on this board. 
How much experience do you have with family that literally have DIRT FLOORS AND CANT DRINK THE FUCKING WATER? Cuz me? I've got fucking plenty. 
You talk about being poor like someone who has never been poor. It's actually disgusting. 
Sorry some lady in Houston doesn't have all her first world fucking goodies and everything she wants with her shitty entry level job in air conditioned space without being very physically demanding @ 15/hr.
The only thing I'm out of touch with is trying to understand how racist ass white people who project their notion of poverty onto people who aren't like them because it "is such a shame" or "disgusts" them. News flash white people are fucking poor here too. 

If you want to talk more about this, I'm happy to once you've calmed down and are ready to have a rational, non-emotional conversation. Let me know.

[immamac 44199]

Sure thing let me bow down to he white man who is mad at the uppity spic who won't let him talk down to him. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Sure thing let me bow down to he white man who is mad at the uppity spic who won't let him talk down to him. 

Like I said, if you want to try to address the actual points I'm making instead of throwing a tantrum, I'll be here.

[BradInATX 9208]

LOL. Keep digging.
Insurance companies use zip codes to determine their liability should things go south. Your race has nothing to do with this. 

It does though, indirectly. You get it. I know you do. You're a lawyer. Don't play rhetoric games. You might be out of touch and classist but you're not stupid.

[immamac 44199]

Just now, BradInATX said:

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

Sure thing let me bow down to he white man who is mad at the uppity spic who won't let him talk down to him. 

Like I said, if you want to try to address the actual points I'm making instead of throwing a tantrum, I'll be here.

I'm all for taking about the problem without injecting race into it. It's quite possibly the biggest problem facing our country. 15/hr in Houston is livable here (not fun or great) and a honestly most of the country outside of the west coast and choice locations in the east coast.

There are however studies which have been done that show the level of personal success is highly dependent on what they see from a disparity perspective. People above the poverty line actually still feel poor because of the massive difference between their lifestyle and someone in the middle class. The middle class feels closer to the poverty line people because of the gap between them and the rich. And the rich feel poor because of the gap between them and the wealthy. It's pulling our country apart and injecting race is a distraction from those who are the problem - the wealthy and the rich. 

A stimulus check for some near the poverty line or working a job as we have been describing is not only absolutely necessary but it's mandatory for survival. There is no margin for error at that level of income even if you are sharing costs. The fact that we can't get a guaranteed unemployment wage at 15/hr @40 hours/WK is insane to me. I don't give a shit what it costs from a tax burden perspective people who aren't getting the stimulus can afford it (that includes me). I don't feel fucking sorry for those that are poor with high income jobs that's a personal choice. The fact that many Americans are bitching about keeping 1/3 of America afloat by paying more taxes is insane, especially from those who have more money than they could ever spend in 100 lifetimes. 

 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

36 minutes ago, immamac said:

Agreed with this. I wasn't defending spankys post I was simply saying it's at least a valid introduction of sharing costs.

15/hour is just enough to have everything you need and very few things you want, but that's pretty much it. 

 

Yep. That’s exactly right. And at 22 or 24 years old, untested, in an entry level office position why should your wage pay more than that?

my desire, for everyone I’ve ever hired, is to have a path toward 6 figures available to them in 5-10 years. 
of my 50 hires 12 of 14 of them made 6 figures, or did within a couple years. But they did not get to “comfortable” wages until they demonstrated a skill or value that could allow me to pay them that. 
put another way- bad hire and too high a wages for those hires can put the organization in jeopardy and stop my from having the ability to reward those at the upper end of the pay scale. 
And, when shit goes wrong I don’t get paid, at all. 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

Comfortable did not mean 6 figures. That’s the people above entry level who work for me gnat make 40-75 is what I mean when I say comfortable.