So, am I getting another $3900 check? Should I?

[Nivek 17330]

45 minutes ago, immamac said:

Agreed with this. I wasn't defending spankys post I was simply saying it's at least a valid introduction of sharing costs.

15/hour is just enough to have everything you need and very few things you want, but that's pretty much it. 

 

I understand.  I didn't include socializing cost because that would inherently change the concept of a living wage and force it to change from an individual to a socialized living wage.   I also find it slightly humorous that our average socialized costs of an inmate is greater than the $25k we are speaking about here, even if it is an apples to oranges.

[Nivek 17330]

1 hour ago, Spankytoes said:

It was? Don’t become a single mom if you can’t afford to be is controversial? Out of the adults earning a minimum/living wage over the age of 21, what % would you guess are parents? As stated above, I was a waiter with kids. So I myself fall into that demographic. 

Um, I would rather that one of our resident lady Surly members explain the issue with the phrase. 

But conceptually,  having kids when you are in your 20s (which was something common 1-2 generations ago) is simply not affordable now with the living wage of $25k without requiring socialism in the forms of aid.    Also we need to be aware of falling into the trap of saying we paid for our college with part time jobs or loans that were a fraction of our graduated salaries so kids today should be able to as well.     But this is all ultimately a tangential point.  

 

[BradInATX 9208]

I'm all for taking about the problem without injecting race into it. It's quite possibly the biggest problem facing our country. 15/hr in Houston is livable here (not fun or great) and a honestly most of the country outside of the west coast and choice locations in the east coast.
There are however studies which have been done that show the level of personal success is highly dependent on what they see from a disparity perspective. People above the poverty line actually still feel poor because of the massive difference between their lifestyle and someone in the middle class. The middle class feels closer to the poverty line people because of the gap between them and the rich. And the rich feel poor because of the gap between them and the wealthy. It's pulling our country apart and injecting race is a distraction from those who are the problem - the wealthy and the rich. 
A stimulus check for some near the poverty line or working a job as we have been describing is not only absolutely necessary but it's mandatory for survival. There is no margin for error at that level of income even if you are sharing costs. The fact that we can't get a guaranteed unemployment wage at 15/hr @40 hours/WK is insane to me. I don't give a shit what it costs from a tax burden perspective people who aren't getting the stimulus can afford it (that includes me). I don't feel fucking sorry for those that are poor with high income jobs that's a personal choice. The fact that many Americans are bitching about keeping 1/3 of America afloat by paying more taxes is insane, especially from those who have more money than they could ever spend in 100 lifetimes. 
 
 

I mean, I couldn't agree more. The fuck got you all butt hurt this morning? Go drink a beer. I'm 3 bloody Mary's in.

[BradInATX 9208]

Comfortable did not mean 6 figures. That’s the people above entry level who work for me gnat make 40-75 is what I mean when I say comfortable. 

40 is not, at least in most places. 75 probably is.
I knew both of those ranges coming up (the 20 years ago equivalent). Those two numbers are a LOT different. I don't think you can even say them together in the same sentence. And Wulaw, you know we're cool, but I think even grouping them together shows that you never really struggled or it's been so long you forgot. You're talking $19.50 vs $36/hour. Night and day.

[BradInATX 9208]

And btw I'm not advocating for or against stimulus or whatever. I'd like to see a system where people that want to work will always make a living wage. And by that I mean enough to have a bit of savings and an emergency fund. So that people who work and manage their money responsibly will always be able to survive something like this. In a perfect world we'd have that, and no Trump socialism checks. The irresponsible or lazy people can eat government cheese and take the bus. Fuck them.

 

I know there are people out there that make plenty and wouldn't need it had they been responsible and not over-extended to look cool on Facebook. And I hate the concept of my kids or grandkids paying the piper for them.

 

But that's fantasy land type stuff. We don't pay the working class enough to let them sink or swim on their own merit. They're in a constant state of trying not to drown. And a lot of people don't understand that. Because they're so removed from it that they say things like "you can insure and gas your car up for $83/month, just get roommates!".

 

You can't even start to have the conversation when parts of society actually believe things like that. There's a knowledge and awareness gap.

 

 

 

 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

23 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

40 is not, at least in most places. 75 probably is.
I knew both of those ranges coming up (the 20 years ago equivalent). Those two numbers are a LOT different. I don't think you can even say them together in the same sentence. And Wulaw, you know we're cool, but I think even grouping them together shows that you never really struggled or it's been so long you forgot. You're talking $19.50 vs $36/hour. Night and day.

When I say comfortable I mean a range where you can live by yourself and be able to sustain something going wrong without financial detestation (car troubles, minor health issues, being a part of a two income family and having your income move the needle etc). 

[BradInATX 9208]

When I say comfortable I mean a range where you can live by yourself and be able to sustain something going wrong without financial detestation (car troubles, minor health issues, being a part of a two income family and having your income move the needle etc). 

You can't do that on 40k if you work anywhere near a major city.
You can do it on 75 most anywhere, and on 40k in bumfuck.

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

21 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

And btw I'm not advocating for or against stimulus or whatever. I'd like to see a system where people that want to work will always make a living wage. And by that I mean enough to have a bit of savings and an emergency fund. So that people who work and manage their money responsibly will always be able to survive something like this. In a perfect world we'd have that, and no Trump socialism checks. The irresponsible or lazy people can eat government cheese and take the bus. Fuck them.

 

I know there are people out there that make plenty and wouldn't need it had they been responsible and not over-extended to look cool on Facebook. And I hate the concept of my kids or grandkids paying the piper for them.

 

But that's fantasy land type stuff. We don't pay the working class enough to let them sink or swim on their own merit. They're in a constant state of trying not to drown. And a lot of people don't understand that. Because they're so removed from it that they say things like "you can insure and gas your car up for $83/month, just get roommates!".

 

You can't even start to have the conversation when parts of society actually believe things like that. There's a knowledge and awareness gap.

 

 

 

 

 

I made 47k in 2018 as the sole earner for a family of 5. It sucked. 2019 I made 113 and that still sort of sucked. 
I’m well aware of the cost of a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk as it were. 
We didn’t send my wife back to work because we figured it would be a transitional time and better days would be ahead. I think all will be cleared up in the next 30-60 days and we will be “right” again  for the first time since early 17 but it’s been a long fucking slog to get there, and it involved me starting another business to diversify, and taking on multiple partners in each business. 
I know a lot of business owners with the same story. It isn’t easy at any level to be a job creator. I think it will turn out good in the end, and if things keep going the way they are trending I might finally “make it” by the time I retire, at which point in time my goal is to give it away strategically to better as many lives as I can in my community. 
but the person I hire at 25 or 30k and give a chance to, teach a skill set, and pay a live able wage is also benefiting if they use the opportunity correctly. 
what started this entire digression is the idea that I like the $450 bonus payments for getting off unemployment, even into an entry level job, better than the enhanced unemployment, because having a job is better for a person and society than not, and I like the idea of incentivizing that in these times. 

[BradInATX 9208]

I made 47k in 2018 as the sole earner for a family of 5. It sucked. 2019 I made 113 and that still sort of sucked. 
I’m well aware of the cost of a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk as it were. 
We didn’t send my wife back to work because we figured it would be a transitional time and better days would be ahead. I think all will be cleared up in the next 30-60 days and we will be “right” again  for the first time since early 17 but it’s been a long fucking slog to get there, and it involved me starting another business to diversify, and taking on multiple partners in each business. 
I know a lot of business owners with the same story. It isn’t easy at any level to be a job creator. I think it will turn out good in the end, and if things keep going the way they are trending I might finally “make it” by the time I retire, at which point in time my goal is to give it away strategically to better as many lives as I can in my community. 
but the person I hire at 25 or 30k and give a chance to, teach a skill set, and pay a live able wage is also benefiting if they use the opportunity correctly. 
what started this entire digression is the idea that I like the $450 bonus payments for getting off unemployment, even into an entry level job, better than the enhanced unemployment, because having a job is better for a person and society than not, and I like the idea of incentivizing that in these times. 

Those business owners had reserve money that they made from times prior to entrepreneurship when they made well more than 40k/year. I know that because that's my story. And I'm pretty confident you are the same. Not shitting on you, but you didn't go into your startup with no safety net. You're too smart for that.

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

14 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

You can't do that on 40k if you work anywhere near a major city.
You can do it on 75 most anywhere, and on 40k in bumfuck.

I made 44k teaching school as a single person at 30 years old. I’d made as much as 240k a year in my mid to late 20’s. I lived like a king I felt like. Even had a maid!  Saved money even. It’s imminently doable. 

[jimmyjazz 46976]

3 hours ago, immamac said:

Man fuck off with your bullshit. Spanky is saying willful oppression isnt systemic oppression and you are equating all oppression equally. 

Choosing to spend all your fucking money like an idiot has nothing to do with being forced to spend your money to survive. 

Jesus Christ dude.  Remind me next time you throw shade at me to remind you back just how fucking out of touch you actually are.

[BradInATX 9208]

Jesus Christ dude.  Remind me next time you throw shade at me to remind you back just how fucking out of touch you actually are.

I always have my friends' back, even when they say dumb shit. I understand.

[Mole 4338]

The escalation from discussing the minutia of the budget of a hypothetical person to everyone calling each other racist was impressive. Good work everyone.

[jimmyjazz 46976]

8 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

30 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Jesus Christ dude.  Remind me next time you throw shade at me to remind you back just how fucking out of touch you actually are.

I always have my friends' back, even when they say dumb shit. I understand.

Well, imma's summary post put things in a clearer light, so I wouldn't necessarily make the same claim now as I did 30 minutes ago.  It was a truly impressive 3-way of heightened tension.

Carry on, gentlemen. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

On 7/31/2020 at 10:28 PM, Spankytoes said:

He capped SALT taxes to simplify the tax code. Shot our taxes up 3X the amount they were in 2018. No bonus/salary increase to offset this year. Asshole is still recovering.

Same.  

[BigHorn'13 3480]

If anyone has an example of a salaried entry level position, I'd still love to hear it. Even in an office setting. 

It's important because salaried positions usually have benefits attached to them. Hourly hardly ever does. 

[pacman 7490]

On 7/31/2020 at 9:28 PM, jimmyjazz said:

I don't need the check, but like anyone, I'll take it, because there's no alternative.  What i found amazing the first time around was that a 17 YO HS senior didn't qualify.  What a bizarre cutoff.

Mine somehow did and we got credit for two kids, despite only having one under 17.

 

If there is a second round, I bet they correct it.

[Wulaw Horn 19560]

4 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

If anyone has an example of a salaried entry level position, I'd still love to hear it. Even in an office setting. 

It's important because salaried positions usually have benefits attached to them. Hourly hardly ever does. 

It’s actually not allowed anymore (theoretically) because of the Obama admin and some of his regs. Trump did away with those either on paper or just essentially saying they won’t be enforced- I know not which, but I’m not worried anymore about that. 

also- if you work over 30 or 32 you were supposed to have bennies anyway. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[SaucyJack 3517]

9 hours ago, immamac said:

I'm Mexican, literally a Mexican citizen and ethnically, so I wouldn't know anything about this white privilege thing.

Discrimination by race in Mexico.  (Also see Hernan Cortez).

https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/groups/University Honors Program/conference/11_green_caste_in_mexico.pdf

Spanish Caste System in Mexico: This artist’s rendering of the Spanish racial/ethnic caste system imposed in Mexico during the colonial period illustrates the hierarchy from white Europeans to dark-skinned Native Americans or indigenous people.

 

9 hours ago, immamac said:

Sure thing let me bow down to he white man who is mad at the uppity spic who won't let him talk down to him. 

[immamac 44199]

Racism everywhere. It's horrible isn't it? 

[SaucyJack 3517]

11 minutes ago, immamac said:

Racism everywhere. It's horrible isn't it? 

Not in Mexico, according to you.  Own it, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to Mexico.

Edited August 3, 2020 by SaucyJack

[F250 29175]

13 hours ago, SaucyJack said:

Discrimination by race in Mexico.  (Also see Hernan Cortez).

https://www.csustan.edu/sites/default/files/groups/University Honors Program/conference/11_green_caste_in_mexico.pdf

Spanish Caste System in Mexico: This artist’s rendering of the Spanish racial/ethnic caste system imposed in Mexico during the colonial period illustrates the hierarchy from white Europeans to dark-skinned Native Americans or indigenous people.

 

Yes, that exists in Mexico and to an extent in Mexican-American culture however it doesn't really exist in the U.S. outside of Hispanic society. Whites do not officially recognize White Hispanics as genuine White. There was a time that Mexican-Americans were considered white but then the U.S. government officially revoked our whiteness about 100 years ago. So while we are still considered white in Mexico we are an off brand of white in the United States.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13707]

I'm reading now that the WH is considered a blanket forgiveness of all COVID loans to businesses.  I'm not fully opposed to this idea but I believe that the companies or business owners have to somehow state why they can't pay it back or justify it.  If the funds were used in any manner that didn't involve keeping people employed, then more discussion is needed with that CEO/business owner. 

My guess is that the vast majority of those companies used taxpayer money in a fair and reasonable manner. I also assume that someone did not.  I'm not worried if a business owner or CEO continued to pay themselves.  They deserve their salary. However if they gave themselves an unexpected bonus/dividend over the last few months, the loan should not be forgiven.

I also wouldn't want a full audit of every loan. The cost of that wouldn't justify that effort but I would guess that the IRS could identify questionable activity and question as needed.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

You want to have the most efficient stimulus, how about you give every person with a legitimate social security number (i.e. Legal Resident) over the age of 18 2,000 per month (backdated to March when shut down orders started) until the end of the year.  

You do not means test this (i.e. no income restriction).  You do not restrict it from someone if there is someone not legal living in the household (i.e. a spouse is not legal).  Everyone gets it.  Also, you do not tax this.  

Why?  Those of us who do not need the funds for basics will most likely do one of three things: (i) Pay down Debt quicker; (ii) donate the money to not for profits/worthy causes; (iii) invest.  Even if we spent it, it stimulates the economy.

For those that need it, this is a good lifeline.  It keeps you in your home, keeps you from getting underwater from circumstances outside of your control.

Of course, this makes too much fucking sense so Congress will not do it.

[jimmyjazz 46976]

That's roughly $5T?  I wonder how that compares to total stimulus (read: debt explosion) so far.

And yes, Congress and this administration would never do such a thing.

[Continental Op 3934]

I'd take the money and buy tbills for the lulz.  

[Goredho 17627]

On 8/1/2020 at 10:18 AM, Nivek said:

The modern version of the Welfare Cadillac black lady.  

Contrary to what republicans think (since they are wrong about nearly everything).  People like to work.  But working for subsistence wages is not possible for many people.   Especially if that person has kids that would require them to be placed into a daycare facility, and the pay earned from the job is not enough to offset the expenses of working at the job.   

Below is a chart from 2013.  We know this has grown more askew to the right.  Now explain to me why someone in the <70% (arbitrary) should risk their life/health and that of their family to enrich those on the right side of the graph?  Why should someone take a job that costs them money and puts them in harms way?  Why should someone take a job where they basically cannot afford the health care which is stupidly tied to employment and expensive for many, in some cases, more expensive than their wages.  

We have serious fucking flaws here.  Myths and bullshit economics shouldn't be a matter of policy.

Hey, that's a covid curve!  

Would love to know what the net worth and yearly income are at each 10% band.

[StruggleBus 3922]

There are posters on surly that qualified for a stimulus check on the first go around? 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13707]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's roughly $5T?  I wonder how that compares to total stimulus (read: debt explosion) so far.

And yes, Congress and this administration would never do such a thing.

Yeah, Dems would not like giving funds to wealthy individuals, and Repubs would want to give funds to business owners to let them trickle it down to employees.

Ultimately you cannot create a fair process with wide scale programs. 

[Huckleberry 34407]

17 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

You want to have the most efficient stimulus, how about you give every person with a legitimate social security number (i.e. Legal Resident) over the age of 18 2,000 per month (backdated to March when shut down orders started) until the end of the year.  

You do not means test this (i.e. no income restriction).  You do not restrict it from someone if there is someone not legal living in the household (i.e. a spouse is not legal).  Everyone gets it.  Also, you do not tax this.  

Why?  Those of us who do not need the funds for basics will most likely do one of three things: (i) Pay down Debt quicker; (ii) donate the money to not for profits/worthy causes; (iii) invest.  Even if we spent it, it stimulates the economy.

For those that need it, this is a good lifeline.  It keeps you in your home, keeps you from getting underwater from circumstances outside of your control.

Of course, this makes too much fucking sense so Congress will not do it.

Yes, giving it to people is the fastest way to get it back in the economy. I go back to the fact that on the first round of COVID stimulus, the only group of people who got absolutely nothing were college-aged people still claimed as dependents by their parents.

Children under 18? Parents got something. Adults out of college? They got something themselves.

Meanwhile, the demographic that almost instantly spends any money they get and never thinks about savings got nothing. That was absurd.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yes, giving it to people is the fastest way to get it back in the economy. I go back to the fact that on the first round of COVID stimulus, the only group of people who got absolutely nothing were college-aged people still claimed as dependents by their parents.

Children under 18? Parents got something. Adults out of college? They got something themselves.

Meanwhile, the demographic that almost instantly spends any money they get and never thinks about savings got nothing. That was absurd.

Agreed.  The issue I would see with my plan is sticker shock.  It would cost anywhere from 3-5 Trillion.  However, that would go RIGHT to the economy.  We have probably already spent that much anyway.

[jimmyjazz 46976]

16 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

There are posters on surly that qualified for a stimulus check on the first go around? 

Yes, as it turns out, there are a few outlier households that pull in less than $200K annual (married).

[Rougarou 594]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yes, as it turns out, there are a few outlier households that pull in less than $200K annual (married).

Also count your blessings!

['stache 22117]

We need baby bonds and a modest UBI, and it should happen regardless of COVID, although it should be acknowledged that these things would help keep the economy in relatively safe territory next time this shit happens (and there will be many "next times" I think). 

[Continental Op 3934]

I compensate the upstairs help well enough that they did not qualify for the stimulus checks but I have heard rumors that some of the downstairs help received them.  

[RDCanecutter 26853]

Fey's got somethin to say about basically every assertion ever made on Surly. Also, we need to have a 90s dance-off on a burning staircase, in the rain.

 

[Dnaguy 12572]

16 hours ago, SaucyJack said:

 

Spanish Caste System in Mexico: This artist’s rendering of the Spanish racial/ethnic caste system imposed in Mexico during the colonial period illustrates the hierarchy from white Europeans to dark-skinned Native Americans or indigenous people.

 

 

My racism is a little rusty but....

 

How are the Zambo higher in the the caste than indigenous people? If Africans are lower than Indigenous.... wouldn't the indigenous people still be higher in the caste than the zambo?

Or is this there like a point system to race and race is additive.

Racism is hard sometimes.

[elfenix 34658]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

You want to have the most efficient stimulus, how about you give every person with a legitimate social security number (i.e. Legal Resident) over the age of 18 2,000 per month (backdated to March when shut down orders started) until the end of the year.  

You do not means test this (i.e. no income restriction).  You do not restrict it from someone if there is someone not legal living in the household (i.e. a spouse is not legal).  Everyone gets it.  Also, you do not tax this.  

Why?  Those of us who do not need the funds for basics will most likely do one of three things: (i) Pay down Debt quicker; (ii) donate the money to not for profits/worthy causes; (iii) invest.  Even if we spent it, it stimulates the economy.

For those that need it, this is a good lifeline.  It keeps you in your home, keeps you from getting underwater from circumstances outside of your control.

Of course, this makes too much fucking sense so Congress will not do it.

y helo thar aoc

[RDCanecutter 26853]

9 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

 

My racism is a little rusty but....

 

How are the Zambo higher in the the caste than indigenous people? If Africans are lower than Indigenous.... wouldn't the indigenous people still be higher in the caste than the zambo?

Or is this there like a point system to race and race is additive.

Racism is hard sometimes.

My favorite was the Torna atrás.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torna_atrás

I was reading one article on these casta paintings that said they were produced as souvenirs for Spaniards who had served in the exotic Indies, neatly slicing up the divisions. Because if you look at most of the pictures without captions, they're all tan people.

Also, in the old days mixed-race children might be recorded as indio because indios didn't pay taxes. A mestizo was a kid that the Spanish daddy didn't claim, but if the Spanish daddy did claim him, the kid was called a Spaniard, though technically a criollo, which could also be a pure-blood Spaniard born in America. The main thing was upbringing.

I think it was around the time of the Revolution that the Mexican Gummint started pushing the idea of "hey now we're all Mestizos y ya!", no matter what people looked like, probably to give war-traumatized folks one less reason to blow up trains and rob travelers.

[Nivek 17330]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yeah, Dems would not like giving funds to wealthy individuals, and Repubs would want to give funds to business owners to let them trickle it down to employees.

Ultimately you cannot create a fair process with wide scale programs. 

Well the Dems have a system that helps people and the economy in general and the money gets injected back into the economy and can be used to pay for basic necessities.  The Repubs plan is to give money to corporation, let the executives pay themselves bonuses and have little impact on the economy.  Just like with our businessman's understanding of tax cuts, the elite just bought stock and had a difficult time even lying about creating new jobs with the money.   I'll let you in on something, people/companies don't hire because they have money.   They hire because the need something done.  But maybe if we try it for 40 more years we can see some new results.  

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

y helo thar aoc

Lol. AOC would put income restrictions on it. I don't think we should do that.

To be fair, I was part of the Yang Gang. I am all for UBI. But I also don't think you means test it. Legal resident of the US? You get 1k (or for my COVID stimulus plan, 2k) a month. Those that don't need it will increase investment/savings, gifts to nonprofits, or spend/pay down debt. Those that do need it, it could be something meaningful to that family. Maybe College Kid A can focus on his studies and not work full time. Maybe single mom C can forego a second job and spend time with her kids, helping them with homework. Maybe boomer E who wants to retire and open up a small business will take this to do just that.

I would rather see a program like this than some of the other ones we have in place.

[BigHorn'13 3480]

Did unemployed college kids get stimulus checks? My problem is accounting for people. I know tax returns and the IRS is the easiest way but it doesn't account for everyone. 

[jimmyjazz 46976]

2 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Did unemployed college kids get stimulus checks? My problem is accounting for people. I know tax returns and the IRS is the easiest way but it doesn't account for everyone. 

Dependents 17 years old and older did not receive checks.  That covers most college kids.

[BigHorn'13 3480]

Lol of course not. 

[SaucyJack 3517]

9 hours ago, F250 said:

Yes, that exists in Mexico and to an extent in Mexican-American culture however it doesn't really exist in the U.S. outside of Hispanic society. Whites do not officially recognize White Hispanics as genuine White. There was a time that Mexican-Americans were considered white but then the U.S. government officially revoked our whiteness about 100 years ago. So while we are still considered white in Mexico we are an off brand of white in the United States.

 

 

Sorry, but just about everything in your post is incorrect.

 

5 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

Racism is hard sometimes.

DNA for the win!

Race/ethnicity questions are governmental/academic constructs that are always in flux in the U.S.

Race/ethnicity has been used worldwide by humans to subjugate other humans

.

[elfenix 34658]

55 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

AOC would put income restrictions on it.

evidence?

 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

evidence?
 
 

Her railing against the wealthy is the evidence I have. However, if she means truly no strings, then it might be the first thing she and I agree on.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13707]

in the short term, its tough to get money to young people that have never filed before. We could obviously create a better system but the federal govt moves slow. 

 

[F250 29175]

51 minutes ago, SaucyJack said:

 

Sorry, but just about everything in your post is incorrect.

 

 

 

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/06/16/321819185/on-the-census-who-checks-hispanic-who-checks-white-and-why

 

 

 

[SaucyJack 3517]

48 minutes ago, F250 said:

 

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/06/16/321819185/on-the-census-who-checks-hispanic-who-checks-white-and-why

 

 

 

The Census is self-identification.  Hispanic isn't a race.  White is a race.

Your straying from the original premise.