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EPL 2020-21

Firemans4Horn

By Firemans4Horn
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Ted Lange
Ted Lange
MoJames
MoJames

Yeah but fuck City

Cheeseweasel
Cheeseweasel

We've done reaaaaaaaly well with teams outside of the top 8, right?

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

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alright soccer savants, i'm coming to you for your opinion. honestly, we all chat shit (cool phrase), but i want to know what you all make of this, because while i have my own opinion on what to take from this, i'd like to hear from some non-Arsenal fans on the subject. so, here it is, as simply as I can put it:

Arsenal's actual starting XI: plays with 5 at the back, spends all day passing the ball side-to-side and playing crosses which never land on the head of an Arsenal player. They're worst in the league in creating chances, and near the worst in the league in scoring. So far they've gotten Arsenal off to its worst ever start to an EPL campaign. injuries to Partey and various CB's have played a role, but still, it's been bleak.

as opposed to...

Arsenal's backup/youth/Europa League 11:

They play a 433, they went 6-0-0 in the group stage, they score a ton of goals, they play classic Arsenal one-touch, tiki taka football, they scored 20 and conceded 5 in six matches, and they are 100x more fun to watch than our actual starting XI for the EPL.

my take: our backup team shows/plays like what Arteta eventually wants Arsneal to be, which is admittedly easy to do against the absolute shite that we played against in our Europa League group stage. still, i find our first XI talent to be severely lacking, and what I see is Arteta trying (albeit struggling) to use that XI as best he can, which is truthfully reminiscent of so many shitty USMNT teams, playing too defensive, playing too many CDM's, and just going side-to-side/hoofing the ball forward and praying for the ST to win a 1-on-3 and then score. Aubamayeng barely even gets a touch in this system, but it still seems to be what Arteta thinks is best. There has to be a reason for that. 

So, for me- look to our backup team to see what Arteta really wants to do at Arsenal, should we actually provide him with some top tier players/players who can play his Pep Guardiola-inspired/preferred 433. Do any of you want Granit Xhaka as your preeminent midfielder/ball dominator? do you want Kieran Tierney starting at CB for you? does anyone here think Hector Bellerin is the right man to play at RWB for any team with real title aspirations? does the thought of Rob Holding staring every match for your team make you excited? no? then you acknowledge the lack of top flight talent in our squad.

To wrap it up, I'm not saying that Arteta is absolutely going to thrive if/when he gets some better players into his squad, but what i am saying is that i am still suuuuuuuper far away from judging him as a manager based on what we've seen in his one disjointed year in charge. And what's more, i think that Arsenal's Europa League alignment/play style is clearly what Arteta ultimately wants to implement at Arsenal, which makes our current struggles seem less like of a harbinger of things to come, and more like an exposure as to how shitty Arsenal have been at dealing and acquiring talent over the last few years.

This year is going to suck; no doubt about it. But am I questioning Arteta, or freaking out? Nope. Shit takes time. Look no further than what Rick Barnes has done at Tennessee for concrete evidence of this fact. The first two years were brutal, but they've been pretty ducking great since then, yeah? boom. point made. (seriously, if you thought that i was going to type this many words and *not* find a way to mention Rick Barnes, then you don't know AARP). 

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

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8 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

To wrap it up, I'm not saying that Arteta is absolutely going to thrive if/when he gets some better players into his squad,

Arteta has a system that isn't working for his team. He'd be smart to trash it short term and go to a simple 4-4-2 and get service to his stars (Auba/Lacca) and get them back in form. 

Stop trying to play your wingbacks like Klopp plays Robbo & Trent because Klopp's system hinges on defensive mids and a false 9 that all track back to cover the wingbacks. 

If Arteta continues with this plan, he's going to lose the team. Their body language already sucks and you can tell they hate this system.

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Hagbard Celine

Hagbard Celine 10614

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the only explanation i can come up with that is consistent with the facts put forward is that kroenke has told arteta do not play a 433 and do not go down, i.e. this year is a write-off economically so there is no point in taxing fitness, risking injury and risking defeats, although that latter part of the strategy has been put paid with the losses to villa and wolves.  no shame in drawing leeds and losing to spur.  it's the last 2 results that give pause.

you have the opportunity to write the ship in the next 5 days hosting burnley and then soton (don't care about their table position it's still soton).   if those results go like the wolves and villa results, kroenke will either release the kraken or hang arteta out to dry.  4 points would be fine, but you really need the 3 tomorrow to get the right mindset for soton.

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shadow_operative

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15 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

Playing Auba at left wing 💯 makes me question what the fuck Arteta is doing. 

my best guess with this is that our MF is so one dimensional and terrible that the only way to actually get the ball to Auba without him having to track back 50 yards is to play him out wide. 

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shadow_operative

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6 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Arteta has a system that isn't working for his team. He'd be smart to trash it short term and go to a simple 4-4-2 and get service to his stars (Auba/Lacca) and get them back in form. 

Stop trying to play your wingbacks like Klopp plays Robbo & Trent because Klopp's system hinges on defensive mids and a false 9 that all track back to cover the wingbacks. 

If Arteta continues with this plan, he's going to lose the team. Their body language already sucks and you can tell they hate this system.

you ain't lying about that last part. my mom and i were talking about this the other day, as we're both fans of Arsenal as well as Friends- i told her that i saw a recent interview withAuba where he looked like that "happiest dog in the world" that Phoebe brought Joey to cheer him up. two days with Joey (or in this case, half a season of playing like a relegation side that's just trying to stay up) and the happiest dog (guy) in the world looks like he wants to off himself. shit sucks. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

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d314b3f9a544d6ddb7a07912e890a8dd.jpg


Nicolas Pepé was WhoScored's EL Player of the Group Stage...by a lot. and yet Willian has started over him this entire season in the EPL. Willian has a higher work rate, is (ostensibly) more versatile, is better at pressing, and more suited to start at RW considering how defensive we are playing in the EPL. Still, he has not produced, and yet he starts every match and we continue to play 5 atb. Why is that? Why do we not only play so defensively, but we trot out the same ineffective players over and over, all the while our younger, greener, but more creative players live for Thursday nights? 

I'm bringing it to all of you again, because i kind of feel like i have stockholm syndrome, or kind of like Annie in the Community episode where the dean directs a commercial for Greendale. I've convinced myself that there must be some sort of logical reasoning behind this, because if not, then why the fuck am i investing myself in any of it? i don't want to get tunnel vision, so i'm open to any and all theories.


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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12758

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On 12/11/2020 at 12:49 AM, shadow_operative said:

alright soccer savants, i'm coming to you for your opinion. honestly, we all chat shit (cool phrase), but i want to know what you all make of this, because while i have my own opinion on what to take from this, i'd like to hear from some non-Arsenal fans on the subject. so, here it is, as simply as I can put it:

Arsenal's actual starting XI: plays with 5 at the back, spends all day passing the ball side-to-side and playing crosses which never land on the head of an Arsenal player. They're worst in the league in creating chances, and near the worst in the league in scoring. So far they've gotten Arsenal off to its worst ever start to an EPL campaign. injuries to Partey and various CB's have played a role, but still, it's been bleak.

as opposed to...

Arsenal's backup/youth/Europa League 11:

They play a 433, they went 6-0-0 in the group stage, they score a ton of goals, they play classic Arsenal one-touch, tiki taka football, they scored 20 and conceded 5 in six matches, and they are 100x more fun to watch than our actual starting XI for the EPL.

my take: our backup team shows/plays like what Arteta eventually wants Arsneal to be, which is admittedly easy to do against the absolute shite that we played against in our Europa League group stage. still, i find our first XI talent to be severely lacking, and what I see is Arteta trying (albeit struggling) to use that XI as best he can, which is truthfully reminiscent of so many shitty USMNT teams, playing too defensive, playing too many CDM's, and just going side-to-side/hoofing the ball forward and praying for the ST to win a 1-on-3 and then score. Aubamayeng barely even gets a touch in this system, but it still seems to be what Arteta thinks is best. There has to be a reason for that. 

So, for me- look to our backup team to see what Arteta really wants to do at Arsenal, should we actually provide him with some top tier players/players who can play his Pep Guardiola-inspired/preferred 433. Do any of you want Granit Xhaka as your preeminent midfielder/ball dominator? do you want Kieran Tierney starting at CB for you? does anyone here think Hector Bellerin is the right man to play at RWB for any team with real title aspirations? does the thought of Rob Holding staring every match for your team make you excited? no? then you acknowledge the lack of top flight talent in our squad.

To wrap it up, I'm not saying that Arteta is absolutely going to thrive if/when he gets some better players into his squad, but what i am saying is that i am still suuuuuuuper far away from judging him as a manager based on what we've seen in his one disjointed year in charge. And what's more, i think that Arsenal's Europa League alignment/play style is clearly what Arteta ultimately wants to implement at Arsenal, which makes our current struggles seem less like of a harbinger of things to come, and more like an exposure as to how shitty Arsenal have been at dealing and acquiring talent over the last few years.

This year is going to suck; no doubt about it. But am I questioning Arteta, or freaking out? Nope. Shit takes time. Look no further than what Rick Barnes has done at Tennessee for concrete evidence of this fact. The first two years were brutal, but they've been pretty ducking great since then, yeah? boom. point made. (seriously, if you thought that i was going to type this many words and *not* find a way to mention Rick Barnes, then you don't know AARP). 

 

a9c.png.4274363c66c244808fa7bf06659e1a2d.png

 

Nah, he's getting fired.

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Captain Ron

Captain Ron 12758

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17 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:
16 hours ago, yoladu said:

Arsenal L

I remember when that was true.

Liverpool 3, Arsenal 1
Manchester City 1, Arsenal 0
Arsenal 0, Leicester City 1
Arsenal 0, Aston Villa 3
Arsenal 1, Wolverhampton Wanderers 2
Tottenham Hotspur 2, Arsenal 0
Arsenal 0, Burnley 1

It's been true a lot.

 

BTW - just a quick follow up on Arteta as a coach talk. The problem I see with him (though I admit I've barely seen a fraction of their games, more a lot of the post match break down), especially with Derka's breakdown, is that I don't see a coach in the EPL that is coaching to establish himself - mainly to keep his job for now.

Winning in Europa, relatively, is easy compared to the EPL. If he really was looking to establish what he wanted to do, he would play his game in the EPL, not whatever it would take to minimize his losses for now. Set up his system and find who does and doesn't work, and improve everyone within that system.

Arsenal, is still a talented team. IMHO, if they were playing that game, they would probably be no worse for record, improving and probably establishing themselves for and improved second half.

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Firemans4Horn

Firemans4Horn 17680

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10 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

Arsenal, is still a talented team. IMHO,

I don’t see it. 
 

Xhaka-El Neny double pivot is a relegation level midfield. Front 3 are old and unhappy/underperforming. Pepe is miles off the pace. Bellerin has gotten worse for the 4th season in a row. Gabriel is the only player that played yesterday that’s looked pretty good this season. 

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ztejas

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4 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

I don’t see it. 
 

Xhaka-El Neny double pivot is a relegation level midfield. Front 3 are old and unhappy/underperforming. Pepe is miles off the pace. Bellerin has gotten worse for the 4th season in a row. Gabriel is the only player that played yesterday that’s looked pretty good this season. 

I thought about picking that low hanging fruit, but I wasn't going to be as blunt about it.

I think what I would add is while they do have talent it doesn't seem to be much more than what a side like Leicester has. 

Having Auba seems almost pointless at this point. Which is a shame because he was an absolute phenom last season and I can't imagine he's fallen off THAT much.

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

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6 hours ago, ztejas said:

it doesn't seem to be much more than what a side like Leicester has. 

That's an insult to Leicester. Their midfield of Tielemans/Maddison with Barnes or Albrighton is far better than Arsenal's. And Soyuncu is more talented then any of Arsenal's defenders. Vardy is what Aubameyang should be but isn't for some reason.

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