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Shooter in Cedar Park- multiple LEO's shot responding to initial call

shadow_operative

By shadow_operative
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Trey3216

Trey3216 15346

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Hey Surly lawdogs - cops are asking him to come out and "resolve things peacefully". What is the best case for the shooter now assuming he has already shot 3 LEOs? i.e. what will his best defense be and will it hinge on mental health? 

Maybe they should send in a canine unit so he can shoot their dog

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29908

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cajun said:

Fair enough.  If you don't spend much time on "Hero" threads then I can see where the post would garner some of that kind of response.  I took it for granted.

Here's a bit of context for you.  Just a few of the hundreds (if not over a thousand) posts of mine in the same spirit regarding "Heroes"...

 

Image 8-17-20 at 6.44 AM.jpeg

Image 8-17-20 at 6.43 AM.jpeg

Image 8-17-20 at 6.46 AM.jpeg

I had no doubt that you were being honest above. My remark about the sarcasm font, now that I think about it, has more to do with this crazy environment we're living in than any intention of yours. It should've been clear that you were joking, but there are enough amateur political operatives, idiots, and cultists around to make sarcasm hard to discern.

As for me specifically knowing your history, I realize I sometimes recognize avatars more than names. For some reason Cajun didn't connect with Chigurh.

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Cajun

Cajun 11705

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I had no doubt that you were being honest above. My remark about the sarcasm font, now that I think about it, has more to do with this crazy environment we're living in than any intention of yours. It should've been clear that you were joking, but there are enough amateur political operatives, idiots, and cultists around to make sarcasm hard to discern.

As for me specifically knowing your history, I realize I sometimes recognize avatars more than names. For some reason Cajun didn't connect with Chigurh.

Well, we all know how Anton felt about cops...

 

maxresdefault.jpg

Edited by Cajun
And mark me down for having zero clue that there was a "sarcasm" font. America! What a COUNTRY!!!
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Helobious

Helobious 9454

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Cajun said:

Bring in the social worker!!!

Ironically enough, this is exactly what they’ve done since it became a hostage negotiation. 
 

Shooter has released his brother & sister, still holding his mom hostage. 2 of the shot cops have been released from hospital, 3rd is in surgery.

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9836

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Ironically enough, this is exactly what they’ve done since it became a hostage negotiation. 
 

Shooter has released his brother & sister, still holding his mom hostage. 2 of the shot cops have been released from hospital, 3rd is in surgery.

Which makes sense. Sending them to a domestic disturbance (before the police) that has not yet become violent is a recipe for disaster/murder. 

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Celery Man

Celery Man 20951

Posted
Posted

The idea is that you'd use the very large police budget to have a broader set of ways to respond to all of the different types of things we send police to deal with now.

I definitely take stuff written in articles on active situations with a grain of salt but if they really sent three cops into a guy's house who they had been to multiple times and they didn't know why they had been there previously when they did it, that seems like a problem that should and could be addressed.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105143

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

The idea is that you'd use the very large police budget to have a broader set of ways to respond to all of the different types of things we send police to deal with now.

I definitely take stuff written in articles on active situations with a grain of salt but if they really sent three cops into a guy's house who they had been to multiple times and they didn't know why they had been there previously when they did it, that seems like a problem that should and could be addressed.

And this.

If the goal is for everyone to make it home safely (and note, this ABSOLUTELY INCLUDES any and all suspects), then good intel is key.

I'm okay with law enforcement and city leadership look at processes and protocols with an eye on "how do we prevent people from getting hurt" (note, that's different than just "how do we keep COPS from getting hurt") -- by looking at it that way, they can come up with answers other than "give them MORE weapons, and use MORE militarized tactics."

Gather intel, and keep it in places that dispatch can search and access and inform cops about calls in short order.  Stop using no-knock warrants, and instead grab suspects when they have gone out to get their mail or are heading out to pick up a burger.  All kinds of stuff that lowers or mitigates the risk of violent confrontation.  As opposed to doing literally the opposite, which the Wilco sheriff has been shown to do in order to get cool footage on LIVE PD.

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Red Six

Red Six 131

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, ztejas said:

Hey Surly lawdogs - cops are asking him to come out and "resolve things peacefully". What is the best case for the shooter now assuming he has already shot 3 LEOs? i.e. what will his best defense be and will it hinge on mental health? 

A couple things I have noticed through the news coverage and police briefings:

1. The police are surprisingly sympathetic to the guy barricaded in his home.

2. Everything coming out of this has used the passive voice in regards to the shooting, i.e., "the officers were shot."

If the guy inside the house shot the officers, I would expect the police -- especially the gung-ho CPPD -- to say that the guy inside the house shot their officers.

Don't discount initial poor police procedures and friendly fire here.

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TexasEd

TexasEd 8067

Posted
Posted (edited)

New to the thread but when I looked up where this was it looks like it was in the same neighborhood or street as the childcare home where the Greg Kelly case originated.  Is there any connection with the childcare home here?

 

Edit:  I thought this is where the police were looking for Kelley back in the day.  The address of the Day Care may have been in a different neighborhood.

Edited by TexasEd
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Helobious

Helobious 9454

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yes, they call in a hostage negotiator.  but oh the irony!!

It is ironic, because their initial armed approach didn’t work out so they needed a mental health expert to resolve the situation. Which was the opposite of the point that the joke was intended to make.

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dcar00

dcar00 14210

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Posted
31 minutes ago, Helobious said:

It is ironic, because their initial armed approach didn’t work out so they needed a mental health expert to resolve the situation. Which was the opposite of the point that the joke was intended to make.

so its confirmed its a mental health expert and not a hostage negotiator?

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22060

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The man was identified as 26-year-old Joseph Desean Taylor.

Taylor and his mother came outside of the home Monday morning, with Taylor peacefully turning himself over to police. He had previously released his brother and sister during negotiations after barricading himself inside.
———————

In September 2019, court records indicate police were called to the home due to Taylor attacking and choking his teen brother after an argument. His mother reported that it took her and her two adult daughters to pull Taylor off the boy.

Taylor's mother said at the time he has been diagnosed with a mental health condition but refused to take medication for it.

Police reported that during this incident, his sister threatened to call the police. She said he responded with threatening to kill her son.
———————

Last year, Taylor's mother reported that she owns a gun for personal protection and had hidden it from him due to his behavior. However, she said he found it and bought ammunition for it, telling her that he needed it now to protect himself from people trying to "get him."

She also said that Taylor called out-of-state relatives, threatening her own life and the lives of other family members. One relative spoke to police, reporting that he called her twice stating he was going to "take down" his mother and other family members and that she needed to prepare for sad news.
 

That’s pretty much the most information I could find on the suspect. Glad there was no loss of life. 

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Helobious

Helobious 9454

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

so its confirmed its a mental health expert and not a hostage negotiator?

That’s hilarious you think there’s much of a difference between the two. If you’re a hostage negotiator you have significantly more mental health & de-escalation training than a regular cop. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14210

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Posted
1 minute ago, Helobious said:

That’s hilarious you think there’s much of a difference between the two. If you’re a hostage negotiator you have significantly more mental health & de-escalation training than a regular cop. 

that's hilarious that you think this is not how it has been happening for decades. a cop who goes through de-escalation training to be a hostage negotiator comes in after initial police response.

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Helobious

Helobious 9454

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Posted
7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

that's hilarious that you think this is not how it has been happening for decades. a cop who goes through de-escalation training to be a hostage negotiator comes in after initial police response.

When did I ever say that it’s some new trend? Usually the mental health/negotiator approach is used after a failure of force. I’m just saying it’d be interesting to see what would happen if it was used as an initial response instead of sending armed cops in. SA has been attempting this to a limited degree the past couple of years. HBO has a documentary on them. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105143

Posted
Posted

Just wanted to follow up with a tip of the hat to Cedar Park Chief Mark Harmon - the news just played a bit from his presser where he said “these were human beings involved in this situation, the suspect, the hostages, our officers, and that’s how we treat it - with everyone as human beings.”

I don’t know all the specifics of how they handled the situation, but it looks like they were patient, and worked to bring it to a peaceful resolution. But the attitude that he stated - if that’s the foundational position from which law enforcement starts, that would do a whole lot to improve law enforcement in this country. I just needed to give some kudos to a police leader who at least said the right thing.

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Brothahorn

Brothahorn 10087

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Helobious said:

When did I ever say that it’s some new trend? Usually the mental health/negotiator approach is used after a failure of force. I’m just saying it’d be interesting to see what would happen if it was used as an initial response instead of sending armed cops in. SA has been attempting this to a limited degree the past couple of years. HBO has a documentary on them. 

If possible that should be SOP. But I think on this one, he had already kicked the door in and was acting crazy, before 911 was called. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105143

Posted
Posted
And now Brisket is complementary towards police. 2020 is fucking crazy 

I have objective standards and expectations for law enforcement. When they get it right, intellectual honesty requires that I acknowledge it. Law enforcement needs to know that they CAN get it right. That’s important - it shouldn’t be a no-win situation for them.
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Helobious

Helobious 9454

Posted
Posted

Facebook vid of the hostage taker was strange. Wonder if that joint helped him relax and not kill anyone. He even said “that’s good” when the negotiator told him all the injured cops survived. 

I agree with the other poster that said it was likely friendly fire wounds for the cops. I guess we’ll see eventually.

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ztejas

ztejas 43452

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

The man was identified as 26-year-old Joseph Desean Taylor.

Taylor and his mother came outside of the home Monday morning, with Taylor peacefully turning himself over to police. He had previously released his brother and sister during negotiations after barricading himself inside.
———————

In September 2019, court records indicate police were called to the home due to Taylor attacking and choking his teen brother after an argument. His mother reported that it took her and her two adult daughters to pull Taylor off the boy.

Taylor's mother said at the time he has been diagnosed with a mental health condition but refused to take medication for it.

Police reported that during this incident, his sister threatened to call the police. She said he responded with threatening to kill her son.
———————

Last year, Taylor's mother reported that she owns a gun for personal protection and had hidden it from him due to his behavior. However, she said he found it and bought ammunition for it, telling her that he needed it now to protect himself from people trying to "get him."

She also said that Taylor called out-of-state relatives, threatening her own life and the lives of other family members. One relative spoke to police, reporting that he called her twice stating he was going to "take down" his mother and other family members and that she needed to prepare for sad news.
 

That’s pretty much the most information I could find on the suspect. Glad there was no loss of life. 

Sounds like a manic bipolar trip. My (now deceased) uncle used to do this shit. Hope he has decent luck in court (if charges are filed - which I'm guessing they will be).

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22060

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Sounds like a manic bipolar trip. My (now deceased) uncle used to do this shit. Hope he has decent luck in court (if charges are filed - which I'm guessing they will be).

Most paranoid schizophrenics manifest in their early twenties. Just a thought. No way to diagnose someone without meeting them. The only reason I thought of that was because according to the article I read he said people were “out to get him.”

in any case it’s beyond sad. What do you do with the mentally ill?

1. any police officer I know will tell you the time they are most vulnerable is showing up on domestic violence cases or serving a warrant.

2. We have obviously as a country passed the buck on mental illness. No funding. No education: no insurance for said issues. 
 

3. which is the most difficult: if you read the article and parts of it I posted there is no way to make someone take medication. Apparently that guy was resistant to doing so. No way to keep them in a place until they are stable. Basically, unless you are deemed to be a threat to yourself or others while under a 51/50 hold or your loved ones put you in a place, you are free to do as you want. Anyone over 18 can check out of any facility unless they are deemed at that time to be a threat to themselves or others at that time/ court ordered. It’s just sad.

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Bevo

Bevo 13577

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Posted
4 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

The only reason I thought of that was because according to the article I read he said people were “out to get him.”

In fairness to him, when he barricaded the entries and took hostages, people were most definitely out to get him.

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Nicole44

Nicole44 22060

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Bevo said:

In fairness to him, when he barricaded the entries and took hostages, people were most definitely out to get him.

Did you read the article? In fairness, to you, he has mental issues. He already threatened his family in a prior incident. The prior incident was when he felt people were “out to get him” in 2019. He was not well.   

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