Do We Have a Christ Followers Thread?

[jkates 316]

Is there new testament scriptural basis for this?

No. There is no biblical support for the idea of needing to be constantly saved or for salvation's being a process.

The Bible talks about working out one's salvation. This sanctification is a process and ongoing but not to be confused with salvation.


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[jkates 316]

I was raised catholic, am an atheist now. Honest question: let’s say I live my whole life as a non-believer and just act like a general dirtbag. When I’m on my death bed, can I not just say I’m sorry for all I’ve done and accept Christ as my lord and savior, and end up going to the same place as a lifelong devout Christian?

Jesus saved the thief on the cross next to him in their final moments.


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[Nice Guy Eddie 13508]

Quote

If one decides they want to travel some where, just stating "Some day I want to go to Paris" for example. I always ask that person, what's your plan. If they don't have one, I tell them they will never make it to Paris

I bet you’re fun at parties. Crushing random people’s dreams because they don’t a detailed plan drafted.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Now that I'm at a computer and have time, I'll share my testimony.  First... sober since April 27, 2015.  

I was raised in a non-denominational, very legalistic church.  That church has since exposed their own love of legalism, repented, and fallen on God's Grace. Doesn't mean the congregation doesn't still struggle, but their old legalistic ways have been brought to light.  I went to church 3x per week and it was force fed.  I had many "come to Jesus" moments, but my first true experience of God revealing himself to me was at the age of 19.  I felt like I accepted Christ's salvation at that point, but I strayed and lived my own life.  I left the Word, and joined the world.  I struggled and teetered with "believer" and "agnostic."  Never an unbeliever, but definitely questioned.  I struggle with control, and I've never wanted to give up full control.  Admitting my struggle with alcohol was hard enough, but not enough to bring me to the God/Christ of the Bible.  I was very selfish in my marriage for 12 years (we just celebrated 12 years in July).  Honestly, my wife and I struggle very much with our own selfishness and self-serving in our marriage, as I'm sure all couples do.  Well, here is where God decided to say enough is enough, and lead me to him... 

Last fall (2019) I decided to join a group of guys in a Bible study.  Very hesitant, and was there more for the fellowship than anything else.  Last October I bought my first devotional book, and remember texting the group... "I can't believe I just bought this... here we go."  God worked on my heart for months, slowly building a full on revelation of Himself to me.  In April my wife and I had a big blow up, I left the house for a few days, and it lead to a lot of introspection, and God said... "Get your head out of your butt and start changing your ways."  At that point, I decided to start working on our marriage, and my selfishness.  12 years of this crap, so my wife is/was very hesitant.  Lots of back and forth and pushback from my wife, regardless of my efforts.  "Is there anyone else?" I would ask countless times.  "NO!" is the response I got every time.  Nose to the ground, I kept working, kept reading, kept my fellowship, and God kept bringing me closer to him.  And then... 

July 4th we're at my BIL's lake cottage for a few days.  I was hesitant to go, b/c I did not feel my wife really wanted me there.  I felt like she wanted me there to save her own face, and didn't want to explain to people of a failing marriage, and wanted me there for my own pleasure, rather than the pleasure and company of each other (if that makes sense).  I obviously decided to go, and things were going "decent," and there was a little bit of connection.  On July 4 in the afternoon, I decide to walk to the house to go to the bathroom, check my phone, while my wife was at the lake about 100 yards away.  I had zero intentions of checking her phone when I went up there, but something lead me to do it.  I checked her messages, and nothing.  You're an idiot, ETB... wait, let's just check Instagram for the heck of it.  What's this?... a message from her pastor.  I read through the message, and I see some I love you's.  My naivety and my trust won't let me believe it is anything other than a pastor reaching out to his flock... "I love you in Christ."  Then I see some "Baby's" in the message.  Then I go back to about a week before the lake, and she says to this guy, "Oh my gosh, he said he's coming to the lake on 4th of July. I don't want him there." To which he responded something to the effect, "It's OK. Maybe you won't have to be around each other much. I wish I could just squeeze you and snuggle you."  At that point, I lost it.  I confronted her sister in law (brother's wife) and she knew nothing and was appalled.  I called for my wife and confronted her.  I was 8 hours from home, and I should have just taken off and left, but I didn't.  God said, "Run to ME!"  That is all I wanted to do.  I wanted to pick up the Bible, I wanted to pray, and I had no idea why.  Was scaring the heck out of me, b/c that wasn't "me."  

I'm not going to get into the repentance and reconciliation process that is frustrating me to no end, but I will say that it has been repeated over and over again that there was never anything physical, and that this was purely an emotional affair.  My own insecurities give me doubt.  My wife said that from start to finish, this probably lasted 6-8 months, which lead me to back track and apply it to my own experience, and please take joy in this revelation.  This is my take on it... 

October - perhaps this is when this "friendship" started, when they started giving things to each other that belonged to their respective spouses.  God starts his work on me, and I purchase my first devotional book.  Had this affair been brought to light, we would be divorced, and I would not have God in my life on my own accord.

April - perhaps this is when the "friendship" crossed the line into "I love you." Wife and I have a blow up.  She said she wanted to tell me of the affair then, but did not.  God turned it up a notch, and said, "Work on yourself and your marriage.  Get your head out of your butt."  Had I learned of the affair then, I would not have been able to stay with my wife.  I was not strong enough.  Probably divorce, or a firm separation.

July - this is when everything was revealed.  God finally said, "ETB, you're ready.  I have prepared you to deal with this, and to bring Me glory through this.  Here you go.  Here is what is happening."  God waited until I was ready to repair my marriage for His glory before He revealed it to me.  He put my wife through this for a reason as well, but I'm still not sure why.  She has not fully repented, and is still burying things, but I have to continue to pray that God will not only work on my own heart, but on hers as well.  

I am drawing closer to Him daily, and our marriage is at a very slow rebuild.  I have more to share, but it is a different problem, so I will save for another post.  To God be the glory!

[Moby Ric 2058]

14 hours ago, workswithseed said:

What's CW? I for the life me can't figure it out.

Current Wife

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

My problem...

Apparently this pastor's plan was to confess to the congregation on July 5, the day after the sins had been revealed.  Problem is, all of our family that attends that church was in Tennessee at the lake.  MIL, two BIL and their family.  The service was not put on Facebook.  So no one has any clue what was said.  Since then, he removed himself from the pulpit, but still lead worship.  I told my wife that she was done with that church (obviously), but my kids still go there with their grandmother. My daughter was just baptized there 2 weeks ago, but by the old senior pastor, not the offender.  No way I'd have ever let that happen.  I'm not going to go into detail, but my problem is this... 

August 16, the offending pastor reclaimed the pulpit.  42 days of unbiblical repentance is apparently enough.  My belief, based on God's Word from Titus, 1 Timothy, 1 Corinthians, is that he is disqualified as a pastor.  He, like anyone else, deserves God's forgiveness, but we hold overseers to a higher standard, and based on this standard, he is no longer qualified to lead a church.  My children still go there, and that is struggle #1.  My extended family still attends, and that is struggle #2.  I need prayer, and I need to make sure that I do not act out of selfish desires, rather let God take control of this situation. 

1 Timothy 3

 

Qualifications for Overseers and Deacons

1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. ² Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife,temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, ³ not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. ⁴ He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full^[a] respect. ⁵ (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) ⁶ He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceitedand fall under the same judgment as the devil. ⁷ He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

 

Titus 1

Appointing Elders Who Love What Is Good

⁵ The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint^[a] elders in every town, as I directed you. ⁶ An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe^[b] and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. ⁷ Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. ⁸ Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good,who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. ⁹ He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

[Gatorubet 30185]

Now that I'm at a computer and have time, I'll share my testimony.  First... sober since April 27, 2015.  
I was raised in a non-denominational, very legalistic church.  That church has since exposed their own love of legalism, repented, and fallen on God's Grace. Doesn't mean the congregation doesn't still struggle, but their old legalistic ways have been brought to light.  I went to church 3x per week and it was force fed.  I had many "come to Jesus" moments, but my first true experience of God revealing himself to me was at the age of 19.  I felt like I accepted Christ's salvation at that point, but I strayed and lived my own life.  I left the Word, and joined the world.  I struggled and teetered with "believer" and "agnostic."  Never an unbeliever, but definitely questioned.  I struggle with control, and I've never wanted to give up full control.  Admitting my struggle with alcohol was hard enough, but not enough to bring me to the God/Christ of the Bible.  I was very selfish in my marriage for 12 years (we just celebrated 12 years in July).  Honestly, my wife and I struggle very much with our own selfishness and self-serving in our marriage, as I'm sure all couples do.  Well, here is where God decided to say enough is enough, and lead me to him... 
Last fall (2019) I decided to join a group of guys in a Bible study.  Very hesitant, and was there more for the fellowship than anything else.  Last October I bought my first devotional book, and remember texting the group... "I can't believe I just bought this... here we go."  God worked on my heart for months, slowly building a full on revelation of Himself to me.  In April my wife and I had a big blow up, I left the house for a few days, and it lead to a lot of introspection, and God said... "Get your head out of your butt and start changing your ways."  At that point, I decided to start working on our marriage, and my selfishness.  12 years of this crap, so my wife is/was very hesitant.  Lots of back and forth and pushback from my wife, regardless of my efforts.  "Is there anyone else?" I would ask countless times.  "NO!" is the response I got every time.  Nose to the ground, I kept working, kept reading, kept my fellowship, and God kept bringing me closer to him.  And then... 
July 4th we're at my BIL's lake cottage for a few days.  I was hesitant to go, b/c I did not feel my wife really wanted me there.  I felt like she wanted me there to save her own face, and didn't want to explain to people of a failing marriage, and wanted me there for my own pleasure, rather than the pleasure and company of each other (if that makes sense).  I obviously decided to go, and things were going "decent," and there was a little bit of connection.  On July 4 in the afternoon, I decide to walk to the house to go to the bathroom, check my phone, while my wife was at the lake about 100 yards away.  I had zero intentions of checking her phone when I went up there, but something lead me to do it.  I checked her messages, and nothing.  You're an idiot, ETB... wait, let's just check Instagram for the heck of it.  What's this?... a message from her pastor.  I read through the message, and I see some I love you's.  My naivety and my trust won't let me believe it is anything other than a pastor reaching out to his flock... "I love you in Christ."  Then I see some "Baby's" in the message.  Then I go back to about a week before the lake, and she says to this guy, "Oh my gosh, he said he's coming to the lake on 4th of July. I don't want him there." To which he responded something to the effect, "It's OK. Maybe you won't have to be around each other much. I wish I could just squeeze you and snuggle you."  At that point, I lost it.  I confronted her sister in law (brother's wife) and she knew nothing and was appalled.  I called for my wife and confronted her.  I was 8 hours from home, and I should have just taken off and left, but I didn't.  God said, "Run to ME!"  That is all I wanted to do.  I wanted to pick up the Bible, I wanted to pray, and I had no idea why.  Was scaring the heck out of me, b/c that wasn't "me."  
I'm not going to get into the repentance and reconciliation process that is frustrating me to no end, but I will say that it has been repeated over and over again that there was never anything physical, and that this was purely an emotional affair.  My own insecurities give me doubt.  My wife said that from start to finish, this probably lasted 6-8 months, which lead me to back track and apply it to my own experience, and please take joy in this revelation.  This is my take on it... 
October - perhaps this is when this "friendship" started, when they started giving things to each other that belonged to their respective spouses.  God starts his work on me, and I purchase my first devotional book.  Had this affair been brought to light, we would be divorced, and I would not have God in my life on my own accord.
April - perhaps this is when the "friendship" crossed the line into "I love you." Wife and I have a blow up.  She said she wanted to tell me of the affair then, but did not.  God turned it up a notch, and said, "Work on yourself and your marriage.  Get your head out of your butt."  Had I learned of the affair then, I would not have been able to stay with my wife.  I was not strong enough.  Probably divorce, or a firm separation.
July - this is when everything was revealed.  God finally said, "ETB, you're ready.  I have prepared you to deal with this, and to bring Me glory through this.  Here you go.  Here is what is happening."  God waited until I was ready to repair my marriage for His glory before He revealed it to me.  He put my wife through this for a reason as well, but I'm still not sure why.  She has not fully repented, and is still burying things, but I have to continue to pray that God will not only work on my own heart, but on hers as well.  
I am drawing closer to Him daily, and our marriage is at a very slow rebuild.  I have more to share, but it is a different problem, so I will save for another post.  To God be the glory!

No pics. Now I have to email her Pastor.

[BayouBill 835]

7 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

This is a topic I’ve struggled with dating back to as young as I can remember. Both of my parents go to church every Sunday and I used to go with them. But I’ve always had this overwhelming doubt that lingers in my subconscious mind, so going to church has always been a struggle for me. I always have to catch myself from rolling my eyes at certain comments preachers make.

I understand the value of committing your life to Christ, and having faith that you aren’t in this alone. That there is a higher power that genuinely has our best interests at heart. I genuinely want to get there, not just for myself but for my parents. They beat themselves up all the time because in their opinion, they failed in this regard. But I don’t know how to get there. I don’t know how to get the light bulb to turn on.

I know there are plenty of people like me that finally turned a corner. What happened for you? What clicked? I’ve been struggling to get there for awhile now and I feel like I haven’t made any progress. I feel like my faith has gotten worse as I’ve gotten older.

 

edit: I apologize if this is derailing the thread. Looking at the OP, I feel like this might be off base, and not really what the thread was intended for.

I was in the same boat my dude. I also remember thinking, yeah I'm drawn to Christianity but how do I know I'M right? How do I know what I believe is the right way? You mean to tell me all these billions and billions of people around the world and throughout history who don't believe in Christ as the son of God are all wrong and I'm the one who's figuring it out? It didn't seem "fair" and it didn't make sense. But I was still being drawn to Christ. I read the bible and and started paying attention to what the apostles said and went through in trying to spread the gospel. I remember reading Romans 7 :21-25 where Paul says:

"Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

 

And this broke me...it's hard to explain but reading that helped bring me closer to Christ than anything else in my life. I understand everyones journey is different, but Jesus says to seek him and you WILL find him. I would say pray, read, and also talk with someone who is a believer and knows what the hell they are talking about.

[Brisketexan 105057]

Yes that's all fine and well but could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself couldn't eat it?

The answer is revealed in the book of Allsup’s, 4:25.

[Bash Riprock 1695]

8 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Nonsense.     Sounds like you had some fucked up shit in your life.  And I'm genuinely sorry that happened, and very glad you are doing better.  But I know tons of folks who are very spiritual - yet have never 'been to Hell'.   They are just good, kind, spiritual people.  I have a great friend who is now a Quaker, and she was headed toward that service to others path when I met her forty years ago.  She had a great childhood,  married a great guy while young, and has a wonderful family.   She is just a spiritual soul.   Also, there are tons of folks I know who who treat religion and church like a social club, and they don't have the faintest worry about going to hell.

That sound like some fortune cookie shit.

My minister told me that saying and it helped me, because I was so torn and burnt out on Religion. He told me all I needed was a relationship with Christ not a bunch whoop la with denominations. It's what got the ball rolling for me. 

[Brisketexan 105057]

10 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Why does Brisket vomit on every thread? The EXPERT of every thing on surly!

I have a couple of hypotheses about that.....

One is that he is compensating.  For so much of his life, he has been defined purely as an object of male perfection, and of every woman's sexual desire.  To make up for that burden and pigeonholing, he has made great effort to learn and expand his knowledge and wisdom, so that he might be seen as a multidimensional person; as a man of thought as well as a man of stunning good looks and immeasurable sexual prowess.

The other is that he's just a world-class bullshitter.

Not sure which is right.

[Gatorubet 30185]

My minister told me that saying and it helped me, because I was so torn and burnt out on Religion. He told me all I needed was a relationship with Christ not a bunch whoop la with denominations. It's what got the ball rolling for me. 

We’d all be better off with less focus on organized religion and more focus His sermon on the mount. My post looks harsher than I intended in retrospect. My message was that your pastor’s saying, while tailored to you, is not some deep universal truth. Glad it helped you.

[Nicole44 22057]

Thanks for the topic OP! Appreciate the thread! Proud Methodist. I struggle with God all the time. But my faith has also brought me peace when I am anxious. Thanks for sharing y’all’s views. 

[Bash Riprock 1695]

8 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

We’d all be better off with less focus on organized religion and more focus His sermon on the mount. My post looks harsher than I intended in retrospect. My message was that your pastor’s saying, while tailored to you, is not some deep universal truth. Glad it helped you.

Totally understand. When you're a kid growing up Church of Christ this line of thinking about Religion is/was music to my ears.

[ztejas 43411]

2 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

No pics. Now I have to email her Pastor.

That was the worst Penthouse forum letter ever.

[RollLeft 5040]

7 hours ago, jkates said:

No. There is no biblical support for the idea of needing to be constantly saved or for salvation's being a process.

The Bible talks about working out one's salvation. This sanctification is a process and ongoing but not to be confused with salvation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How does the Bible define Salvation?  In many ways.

Salvation is regeneration, receiving His eternal life, reborn a son of God.  This is instant.

Salvation is redemption, receiving forgiveness, cleansed by the Lamb from sin. This was instant.

Salvation is justification, being blameless before the Father and all man. This was instant.

Salvation is growing, no longer being newborn babes rather growing unto salvation.  This is lifelong.

Salvation is conformation, being conformed to the image of His son for expression. This is lifelong.

Salvation is sanctification, being sanctified from all things not of Him. This is lifelong.

Salvation is transformation, reflecting Him in all we are say and do from one degree of glory to the next. This is lifelong.

Salvation is ultimately glorification.  This is lifelong and leads into eternity.

Per the Bible Salvation has many subsets.  This is why one can technically say that salvation is secure and once for all eternity, no chance of losing it, be instantaneous and without works and be correct, yet not complete.  Much like when a child is born they cannot be unborn therefore that part of a process is done. Now the process of maturity.  Another example for this is baptism.  If we are already "saved" than some may argue why the need?  Either we are saved by mere believing or we are not, what is the point of a second step? The point of Baptism is not salvation, or sanctification otherwise we would need to be baptized all the time, it merely is a declaration and further step in the process of further salvation. 

Also if you limit Salvation to mere believing, instead of its larger definition, you open yourself up to a myriad of questions and inconsistencies in the text like when James says faith without works is dead. For example why even have the rest of the Bible?  If one only need to believe and be saved they would only need one verse, Jn 3:16.  Why would one worry about sanctification because whether they do good or bad in their life they already have salvation.  All good bro!  Yet in the text it asks believers to prove their faith and in the end receive salvation of their souls.  What gives? Salvation here cannot therefore only equate to regeneration/redemption or only equate to works therefore both must be included in the larger definition of salvation.  The reader can't accept one aspect and not the other or pick and choose.  Both are there.

So according to the text Salvation is both instantaneous secure and for eternity and a process for our life and for the day of reward.  It includes both an unearned gift of regeneration and redemption for eternity by simply believing, but also the proving of our faith during the believers life and for the day of reward.  This why the text brings up the spirit, soul an body being saved from self, sin, the world and so many other things that entangles believers is even mentioned.  Certainly salvation, not mere regeneration, includes a lifelong process.  An inadequate, and weak, example of this is when we people say they have "full coverage" insurance.  Ask any insurance guy and they know no term actually exists.  What people have is a collection of coverages like liability, collision, PIP and many other coverages but no says any of those individual coverages they just say i'm insured.  No one thinks twice because no one cares, but it does not change the facts that they have multiple coverages even when the term "full coverage" is universally understood and accepted.  Same with Salvation.  It has many facets and does not mean just one thing.  Again, not the best example but merely trying to illustrate a point.

In the instance of the robber, Jesus did save him.  The question is from what?  According to the text He says, "Today you shall be with me..." So by deduction He saved him from going where he was gonna go prior to his new destination, that is with Jesus.  So it begs the question where was Bbass going and where did Jesus go?  It is often assumed where Jesus (both) went, but after I read the text and found out it changed much of what i thought i knew of the Bible.  I wondered what else i was assuming without actually having read it.  More of it makes sense now.  

I only wrote so much, because the question was sincere and now the OP seems like he really is opening to this community for help.  So i thought a point of clarification might help.  Why ETBass chose to open up here i have no clue.   What's the quote, "The wittiest group of assholes" on the internet.  While i know you might find some help here ETBass i do hope you seek professional help.  The purpose of this site for me is really to talk smack about sports and dabble in a few other things of interest.  I really don't like getting all serious and revealing too much with the Surly mafia.  You might get help but you also run the risk of getting turned on by some, like the Jews/Romans did to Jesus!  All the best man. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by RollLeft

[jkates 316]

40 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

How does the Bible define Salvation?  In many ways.

Salvation is regeneration, receiving His eternal life, reborn a son of God.  This is instant.

Salvation is redemption, receiving forgiveness, cleansed by the Lamb from sin. This was instant.

Salvation is justification, being blameless before the Father and all man. This was instant.

Salvation is growing, no longer being newborn babes rather growing unto salvation.  This is lifelong.

Salvation is conformation, being conformed to the image of His son for expression. This is lifelong.

Salvation is sanctification, being sanctified from all things not of Him. This is lifelong.

Salvation is transformation, reflecting Him in all we are say and do from one degree of glory to the next. This is lifelong.

Salvation is ultimately glorification.  This is lifelong and leads into eternity.

Per the Bible Salvation has many subsets.  This is why one can technically say that salvation is once for all eternity and instantaneous and be correct, yet not complete.  Another example for this is baptism.  If we are already "saved" than why the need?  Either we are saved or we are not, what is the point of a second step? The point of Baptism is not sanctification, otherwise we would need to be baptized all the time, it merely is a declaration in the process of further salvation. 

Also if you limit Salvation to mere believing you open yourself up to a myriad of questions and inconsistencies in the text. For example why even have the rest of the Bible?  If one only need to believe and be saved they would only need one verse, Jn 3:16.  Why would one worry about sanctification because whether they do good or bad in their life they already have salvation.  All good bro!  Yet in the text it asks believers to prove their faith and in the end receive salvation of their souls.  What gives? 

So according to the text Salvation is both instantaneous and a process.  It includes regeneration and redemption for eternity and many other forms of salvation during the believers life and then a reward for the faithful.  This why the text brings up the spirit, soul an body being saved from self, sin, the world and so many other things that entangles believers is even mentioned.  Certainly salvation includes a lifelong process.

In the instance of the robber, Jesus did save him.  The question is from what?  According to the text He says, "Today you shall be with me..." So by deduction He saved him from going where he was gonna go prior to his new destination, that is with Jesus.  So it begs the question where was Bbass going and where did Jesus go?  It is often assumed where Jesus (both) went, but after I read the text and found out it changed much of what i thought i knew of the Bible.  I wondered what else i was assuming without actually having read it.  More of it makes sense now.  

I only wrote so much, because the question was sincere and now the OP seems like he really is opening to this community for help.  So i thought a point of clarification might help.  Why ETBass chose to open up here i have no clue.   What's the quote, "The wittiest group of assholes" on the internet.  While i know you might find some help here ETBass i do hope you seek professional help.  The purpose of this site for me is really to talk smack about sports and dabble in a few other things of interest.  I really don't like getting all serious and revealing too much with the Surly mafia.  You might get help but you also run the risk of getting turned on by some, like the Jews/Romans did to Jesus!  All the best man. 

My response, though brief, was sincere. Salvation is the work of Christ and is not dependent on anything we do; it is a gift given and not something earned and potentially lost. Therefore, after the moment of salvation, it's locked down. It's over. Jesus sustains us through life on this Earth, but the saving is done. The rest is gravy and the effects of salvation, not the salvation itself. The results of the sanctification process prove the salvation, they are not a part of it and don't earn it. 

Quote

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,⁸ for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Romans 8. Past tense, including all the way to glorification. It is finished. And I thank God for that. Left to my own efforts, I might not make it!

Edited August 21, 2020 by jkates

[Brisketexan 105057]

2 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Let me, in fellowship, help you out.

We've met before in person.

With that in mind I can confirm with absolute certainty it is the bullshiter aspect that compels you forward.

Can I get a witness!?!

My wife is shouting "amen!" from the other room.  My wounds are now deep.

[RedDirtTexan 209]

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. 

[Willfully Horn 8000]

19 hours ago, Bernard said:

I feel sorry you brainwashed and/or gullible fools. Religion is a scourge on humanity. Religion itself is the evil. The believers are its victims. Give reality a try. You might like it.

Bernard

I respect your conclusion, and do not feel a need to say my differing conclusions are correct. I share the skepticism of religion. But count me as the fool who believes in Christ. Like the disciples believed. In the message. The virgin birth stuff, resurrection, outside of human experience stuff, does not inform my personal belief in Christ. I’m not equipped to pronounce those beliefs false. I don’t know. I’ve been called foolish by those who identify as ‘saved,’ too. 
 

 Your post reminded me of something attributed to Joesph Campbell. He posited that every religion was akin to software, with differing protocols, but the same output: to experience a mystical connection to the divine.

He knew a bit about the subject, and was convinced that some folks honestly believed they had  achieved such a connection, if only briefly

Campbell also said all religion is true. No religion is literal. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Willfully Horn
Yes.

[Gatorubet 30185]

My wife is shouting "amen!" from the other room.  My wounds are now deep.

Mighty damn TULIP-y up in here.

[Sawbonz 27534]

8 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Now that I'm at a computer and have time, I'll share my testimony.  First... sober since April 27, 2015.  

I was raised in a non-denominational, very legalistic church.  That church has since exposed their own love of legalism, repented, and fallen on God's Grace. Doesn't mean the congregation doesn't still struggle, but their old legalistic ways have been brought to light.  I went to church 3x per week and it was force fed.  I had many "come to Jesus" moments, but my first true experience of God revealing himself to me was at the age of 19.  I felt like I accepted Christ's salvation at that point, but I strayed and lived my own life.  I left the Word, and joined the world.  I struggled and teetered with "believer" and "agnostic."  Never an unbeliever, but definitely questioned.  I struggle with control, and I've never wanted to give up full control.  Admitting my struggle with alcohol was hard enough, but not enough to bring me to the God/Christ of the Bible.  I was very selfish in my marriage for 12 years (we just celebrated 12 years in July).  Honestly, my wife and I struggle very much with our own selfishness and self-serving in our marriage, as I'm sure all couples do.  Well, here is where God decided to say enough is enough, and lead me to him... 

Last fall (2019) I decided to join a group of guys in a Bible study.  Very hesitant, and was there more for the fellowship than anything else.  Last October I bought my first devotional book, and remember texting the group... "I can't believe I just bought this... here we go."  God worked on my heart for months, slowly building a full on revelation of Himself to me.  In April my wife and I had a big blow up, I left the house for a few days, and it lead to a lot of introspection, and God said... "Get your head out of your butt and start changing your ways."  At that point, I decided to start working on our marriage, and my selfishness.  12 years of this crap, so my wife is/was very hesitant.  Lots of back and forth and pushback from my wife, regardless of my efforts.  "Is there anyone else?" I would ask countless times.  "NO!" is the response I got every time.  Nose to the ground, I kept working, kept reading, kept my fellowship, and God kept bringing me closer to him.  And then... 

July 4th we're at my BIL's lake cottage for a few days.  I was hesitant to go, b/c I did not feel my wife really wanted me there.  I felt like she wanted me there to save her own face, and didn't want to explain to people of a failing marriage, and wanted me there for my own pleasure, rather than the pleasure and company of each other (if that makes sense).  I obviously decided to go, and things were going "decent," and there was a little bit of connection.  On July 4 in the afternoon, I decide to walk to the house to go to the bathroom, check my phone, while my wife was at the lake about 100 yards away.  I had zero intentions of checking her phone when I went up there, but something lead me to do it.  I checked her messages, and nothing.  You're an idiot, ETB... wait, let's just check Instagram for the heck of it.  What's this?... a message from her pastor.  I read through the message, and I see some I love you's.  My naivety and my trust won't let me believe it is anything other than a pastor reaching out to his flock... "I love you in Christ."  Then I see some "Baby's" in the message.  Then I go back to about a week before the lake, and she says to this guy, "Oh my gosh, he said he's coming to the lake on 4th of July. I don't want him there." To which he responded something to the effect, "It's OK. Maybe you won't have to be around each other much. I wish I could just squeeze you and snuggle you."  At that point, I lost it.  I confronted her sister in law (brother's wife) and she knew nothing and was appalled.  I called for my wife and confronted her.  I was 8 hours from home, and I should have just taken off and left, but I didn't.  God said, "Run to ME!"  That is all I wanted to do.  I wanted to pick up the Bible, I wanted to pray, and I had no idea why.  Was scaring the heck out of me, b/c that wasn't "me."  

I'm not going to get into the repentance and reconciliation process that is frustrating me to no end, but I will say that it has been repeated over and over again that there was never anything physical, and that this was purely an emotional affair.  My own insecurities give me doubt.  My wife said that from start to finish, this probably lasted 6-8 months, which lead me to back track and apply it to my own experience, and please take joy in this revelation.  This is my take on it... 

October - perhaps this is when this "friendship" started, when they started giving things to each other that belonged to their respective spouses.  God starts his work on me, and I purchase my first devotional book.  Had this affair been brought to light, we would be divorced, and I would not have God in my life on my own accord.

April - perhaps this is when the "friendship" crossed the line into "I love you." Wife and I have a blow up.  She said she wanted to tell me of the affair then, but did not.  God turned it up a notch, and said, "Work on yourself and your marriage.  Get your head out of your butt."  Had I learned of the affair then, I would not have been able to stay with my wife.  I was not strong enough.  Probably divorce, or a firm separation.

July - this is when everything was revealed.  God finally said, "ETB, you're ready.  I have prepared you to deal with this, and to bring Me glory through this.  Here you go.  Here is what is happening."  God waited until I was ready to repair my marriage for His glory before He revealed it to me.  He put my wife through this for a reason as well, but I'm still not sure why.  She has not fully repented, and is still burying things, but I have to continue to pray that God will not only work on my own heart, but on hers as well.  

I am drawing closer to Him daily, and our marriage is at a very slow rebuild.  I have more to share, but it is a different problem, so I will save for another post.  To God be the glory!

I hope you can at least use this as leverage to get her to fold and put away her fucking laundry 

[RDCanecutter 26379]

In before the cock crows.

[CHIEF 5075]

20 hours ago, Helobious said:

I was raised catholic, am an atheist now. Honest question: let’s say I live my whole life as a non-believer and just act like a general dirtbag. When I’m on my death bed, can I not just say I’m sorry for all I’ve done and accept Christ as my lord and savior, and end up going to the same place as a lifelong devout Christian?

How can you be sure you are going to die on a "deathbed"? What if you fell asleep while driving and were instantly killed in a head-on? When I was young, had wandered away from God, and was pretty much doing bad shit, what you explained was EXACTLY my plan. However, I was still a believer, just figured that I had figured out a way to game the system. I was stupid enough to think no one else had ever thought of that before...what a dipshit I was. 

My parents knew and studied God's Word about as well as anyone I know. My Mother gave me a wonderful book "Classic Christianity" by Bob George. There is a great parable/story in that book. It explains the difference between country dogs and city dogs. City dogs struggle with boundaries, much like young Christians. Young Christians, or Christians that are resistant and want to turn to Worldly ways always think about that lifestyle. Think of a city dog, he is always trying to dig out of the yard, something better must be on the other side. If the gate gets left unlatched, out he goes, and good luck catching him. All they think about is escape.

Now, think of a country dog. There are no boundaries, the fucker can leave and never be seen again. But where do you find most country dogs? Laying in the shade under a pickup, or on the front porch. They can go anywhere, and do anything they want, but they stay close to their master because they have learned that his love, mercy, admiration, and affection is what they want most in life. THIS is spiritual maturity, and it takes time to develop it. I pray daily that God would make me a "Country Dog", using those exact words, I'm sure he knows what it means.

CHIEF

[ztejas 43411]

11 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

However, I was still a believer, just figured that I had figured out a way to game the system. I was stupid enough to think no one else had ever thought of that before...what a dipshit I was. 

I don't think that makes you a dipshit. You should be able to beleive in what you want to - or beleive in how you think it works and how you think it doesn't. I think it's the attitude that reflects poorly. 

It's like in recovery. Just because I'm not drinking doesn't mean I'm in the answer/solution (to use AA jargon). If I'm being selfish and gambling and sleeping with prostitutes and lying to my family then I might as well be drinking. 

In Christianity, if you're going to church and singing the hymns and shaking the pastors hand, but you don't enjoy it or beleive in any of it then why the fuck are you at church? Go get some more life experience and come back when you need it or are ready to beleive.

Edited August 21, 2020 by ztejas

[Helobious 9456]

1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

How can you be sure you are going to die on a "deathbed"? What if you fell asleep while driving and were instantly killed in a head-on? When I was young, had wandered away from God, and was pretty much doing bad shit, what you explained was EXACTLY my plan. However, I was still a believer, just figured that I had figured out a way to game the system. I was stupid enough to think no one else had ever thought of that before...what a dipshit I was. 

My parents knew and studied God's Word about as well as anyone I know. My Mother gave me a wonderful book "Classic Christianity" by Bob George. There is a great parable/story in that book. It explains the difference between country dogs and city dogs. City dogs struggle with boundaries, much like young Christians. Young Christians, or Christians that are resistant and want to turn to Worldly ways always think about that lifestyle. Think of a city dog, he is always trying to dig out of the yard, something better must be on the other side. If the gate gets left unlatched, out he goes, and good luck catching him. All they think about is escape.

Now, think of a country dog. There are no boundaries, the fucker can leave and never be seen again. But where do you find most country dogs? Laying in the shade under a pickup, or on the front porch. They can go anywhere, and do anything they want, but they stay close to their master because they have learned that his love, mercy, admiration, and affection is what they want most in life. THIS is spiritual maturity, and it takes time to develop it. I pray daily that God would make me a "Country Dog", using those exact words, I'm sure he knows what it means.

CHIEF

It was a hypothetical. I don’t know that I’ll be “lucky” enough for a deathbed. Or unlucky enough, can’t decide which is the worse way to go. 
 

I’ve struggled with suicidal thoughts and depression throughout my life. It’s still a struggle, but my suicidal thoughts have largely subsided after I stopped believing in an afterlife. I think that our time on Earth is all we get out of our existence, so it’s important to make the very most of it and help others make the most of their short time here too. We’re lucky to be here. 

[ChiTownDoc 21141]

21 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Why does Brisket vomit on every thread? The EXPERT of every thing on surly!

Yeah, you bitching about this on many threads would work.  But a dude who's wife is a minister and he's hasn't found Christ...yeah, I wanna hear that guys opinion in this thread.  Fascinates me. 

[ChiTownDoc 21141]

20 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

Was Jesus a European name?  Or Middle Eastern?  Where were the people who named a kid Jesus from?  

If a non-Albino white dude was born out of left field in the middle east, I think we'd all worship him, even today. 

[Deej 76752]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:29 PM, 936horn said:

This thread is living proof

You mean the thread telling people about Christ?

[Clintonaldo 2572]

I really love this thread and have had time to think since my first response and want to say more but not sure what to say. 

Is it ok to say I love Christ but hate church? I mean I go and I will credit my own church in that they do not judge people but I see so many people that call themselves Christians and I want to cringe. It also then makes me wonder what my church members are doing when I don’t see? That also makes me wonder am I being a hypocrite for judging people who judge people when the Bible is against condemnation?

I don’t know where else to put this but I feel like typing.

 

I have posted before that my father attempted suicide January 26th 2016 and didn’t accomplish what he wanted to accomplish. He now resides in a home where he is blind and has the mental capacity of a 5 year old. For the first 7 months I was driving 5 hours one way to see him every weekend. Some visits were for an hour and sometimes he was asleep but I had to go see him as his only child. 

Also, on the same day my father chose his path my stepfather died of cancer. He was an incredible man who was awarded a Purple Heart. He treated my mother like a queen and was a true prince of a man. I watched him fight for over a year a fight that we all knew he would lose. It was hell and completely unfair.

I will say during that day that I became closer to God. I never once said why me. I do remember saying I know God will not give me more than I can handle but I really wish he didn’t trust me so much. 

 

I will now fast forward 4 years to now. I posted about surviving an F4 tornado on Easter Sunday. The whole day I had a bad feeling seeing that the storms were coming from the south as that is always bad in Tennessee. Long story short is we got into the hallway bath just in time and surrendered to God. We could see the roof about to break away from the house and I told my wife we have done all we can do and it’s out of our hands. It was over in 10 seconds but really humbled us. 

Our anniversary was a few weeks later and things were pretty much back to normal. Things are going good and we both have great jos and friends. I am even lucky enough to snag a little muff on our anniversary. Things continue to roll on for about 6 weeks and everything is great. We are happy and our dogs are healthy and what more could we want?

I have always wanted children and my wife always said she didn’t. I thought it was a phase and she would snap out of it but as the years went on I learned that it might not be a phase and what a shame it would be as I have seen how well she treats our pups and what a phenomenal mother she would be. I had actually started to build some resentment but I kept it buried. I thought my wife didn’t want kids because she thought she couldn’t have kids. She had some issues and a surgery back in 2016 ( same year of dad and stepdad) and we were told we should let the dream of kids go.

Well, one week in May on Wednesday I woke up around 2 am to let the dogs out ( ruff, ruff, ruff) and couldn’t get back to sleep and my mind started wondering. I started thinking about children and how it obviously wasn’t going to happen and I surrendered myself to God and said I accept what you give me and I am thankful for what I have with my wife. I stayed that Saturday night at the lake and when I came home the next morning I noticed my wife following me around the house. I get to my closet and there is a book in it. The book was Your Baby’s First Words Will Be Dadda. I didn’t get it at first and was annoyed that it was in my way but then I see her with big tears in her eyes and she says “You’re going to be a daddy”. I fall to my knees with joy as I cannot believe I will be a first time dad at 40!

I make the mistake of looking up miscarriage stats and immediatly go down a dark road thinking I got my hopes up for nothing. I am a nervous wreck for 2 weeks and I cannot sleep or eat but my wife is calm and not worried. She has such a calming grace about her during this time. We go to doctor and get the due date. The date is the same day of my father and step father. We both start crying and I finally feel like this will happen.  I just don’t think it’s a coincidence. You can call me a sheep or whatever but I thankful for the life God has given me and I will praise him in the good times and in the bad. We are well aware the rug could be pulled out from us at any moment but I will give God the glory either way. 

 

We are at 19 weeks and I would appreciate any and all prayers!

Edited August 22, 2020 by Clintonaldo

[High Plains Drifter 11026]

On 8/20/2020 at 6:13 PM, StruggleBus said:

Leave it to two lawyers to ruin the thread

 

And He said," Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers."

 

Luke 11:46

 

[High Plains Drifter 11026]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

I’ve struggled with suicidal thoughts and depression throughout my life. It’s still a struggle, but my suicidal thoughts have largely subsided after I stopped believing in an afterlife. I think that our time on Earth is all we get out of our existence, so it’s important to make the very most of it and help others make the most of their short time here too. We’re lucky to be here. 

 

That sounds very Christian of you.

 

[TwiceHorn 31438]

1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yeah, you bitching about this on many threads would work.  But a dude who's wife is a minister and he's hasn't found Christ...yeah, I wanna hear that guys opinion in this thread.  Fascinates me. 

I think you have it wrong on brisket.  He's found Christ, he's just disgusted by many of the others who claim to have done so.  In large part because they found him, put him in the back of a drawer, and actively work to harm their fellow man.

[ChiTownDoc 21141]

44 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think you have it wrong on brisket.  He's found Christ, he's just disgusted by many of the others who claim to have done so.  In large part because they found him, put him in the back of a drawer, and actively work to harm their fellow man.

That's 100% part of it - but I feel even he won't say he's truly found Christ yet...from reading posts in the past I feel he still feels he's on his way there whereas his wife obviously has made it all the way.  But yes, I'm agreeing with that being a big part of his reaction to some of the posters here.  I'm sure he can tell us how far off we are.  A good dude, regardless...

[TwiceHorn 31438]

24 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

That's 100% part of it - but I feel even he won't say he's truly found Christ yet...from reading posts in the past I feel he still feels he's on his way there whereas his wife obviously has made it all the way.  But yes, I'm agreeing with that being a big part of his reaction to some of the posters here.  I'm sure he can tell us how far off we are.  A good dude, regardless...

Oddly enough, his wife is a Presbyterian minister and Presbyterians, being Calvinists, are closer to the "saved once, saved forever" notion.

Brisket is more an Arminian/Wesleyan guy, where you actually need to do something to preserve your faith and salvation.  I know he went to a Catholic school, but I'm not actually sure he was raised Catholic, although it would make sense given his hispanic and acadian heritage.  Catholics are more Arminian/Wesleyan than Arminian/Wesleyans (not justified by faith alone).

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

15 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I hope you can at least use this as leverage to get her to fold and put away her laundry 

ha

[pch 1259]

On 8/20/2020 at 6:00 PM, Brisketexan said:

I'm not a Christian, but I sometimes try to be.

That's something that bothers me about Christians.  So many folks speak of it as an accomplishment, or a decision that once made, is a done deal.  Christianity isn't a status.  It's a Way.  A way most of us are pretty piss-poor at following....which is expected and understood.  Thus, grace.  But it remains a way, nonetheless.

And the answer above of "it's complicated" is the only honest and truthful answer I think any of us can give.  Shit, I remember years ago, telling some peers that I was fucking pissed off at God, and they were aghast -- you can't be mad at God!  Like fuck I can't.  And if the fucker can't handle me being pissed at him for lengthy periods of time, what kind of piss-poor God is he, and what kind of shitty relationship must we have?

I'm a shitty Christian.  Some days I do better than others.  Some days, I don't want to, because God has some explaining to do.  Other days, I don't even believe.  One of the most reassuring things I have ever read is Mother Theresa's accounts of her long dark nights of the soul, and her long periods of unbelief.  Because that's okay, too.  And, because even when she had her doubt and unbelief, she still walked in the Way.

My wife is a minister.  And she loves the Mandalorian, for the great distillation of faith in their motto: "this is the Way."  When at some tough junctures, I can ask myself "is this the Way?"  And I know the answer, and if I have the character to choose the right path in that moment, I can and do.

I'm not a Christian.  But I'd like to be.  Doubt I'll ever make it.  But I'll keep walking the Way, stumbling, detouring, and even backtracking a whole lot in the process.

I'm a prodigal son.  This description is the one I would say I relate to most and my answer to those who would judge my anger, hurt, mistrust, etc., towards the God of my understanding need to get a bigger God.  I have come to believe that grace given is the path to grace received and try to live that way. Pretty sure the Creator knows His creation is imperfect and doesn't expect us to live up to the unrealistic expectations often placed on us by various groups.  A daily routine of reading spiritual literature, meditating, and praying has served me well in my return to the almighty as it has those I am closest to. I am comforted in knowing that my future days are likely to be more serene if I continue the journey in this way, just as the opposite is also true.

[pch 1259]

On 8/20/2020 at 9:57 PM, Zepol87 said:

Then I'm in!!

Also my new shirt came in yesterday

 

 

 

 

I saw one years ago that said, "Jesus saves, Esposito on the assist." Should have bought it.

[Guest Lobo]

As a man of baseball faith, how does one "assist" a "save"?  I don't understand the shirt if it says "on the assist"?  No broadcaster would ever announce "And Jesus saves the game with Esposito on the assist."  Unless something is lost in the translation, which is my first issue with the bible.  

Born 1/4 Jewish.  Raised in my father's Lutheran Church (my paternal grandfather's insistence really).  Parents split up when I'm 8 or 9.  Around 10 or 11, start going to my mom's newfound Methodist Church (and was quite involved).  Was considered a journeyman Christian by the scouts from age 17 to 27.  Joined my then fiance's (together for 20 years, married for almost 15) Catholic Church here in Austin.  Been barely-to-somewhat involved there for the last ~15 years. 

In my heart, privately, I feel the deepest connection to Judaism and to Lutheranism/Original Protestantism.  Which I realize at some levels, cannot both be true.  There is something behind all of this.  It attempted an overture with us (maybe Jesus), and hasn't talked to us ever since.  I just wish it wasn't so goddamn divisive. 

[Wulaw Horn 19064]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:53 PM, Helobious said:

I was raised catholic, am an atheist now. Honest question: let’s say I live my whole life as a non-believer and just act like a general dirtbag. When I’m on my death bed, can I not just say I’m sorry for all I’ve done and accept Christ as my lord and savior, and end up going to the same place as a lifelong devout Christian?

Sure, why not?  We see that theology with the robbers on the cross and that comes straight from jesus mouth. Your “punishment” for not walking with christ in this life comes from missing out on this relationship for most of your life. 
it’s not a punishment handed out by a living God it’s a consequence of your decisions and actions. But he still loves you and will welcome you to the fold at any time. 
At least- that’s what I believe from my study and meditation and teaching I’ve received. 

[Gatorubet 30185]

12 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:

I really love this thread and have had time to think since my first response and want to say more but not sure what to say. 

Is it ok to say I love Christ but hate church? I mean I go and I will credit my own church in that they do not judge people but I see so many people that call themselves Christians and I want to cringe. It also then makes me wonder what my church members are doing when I don’t see? That also makes me wonder am I being a hypocrite for judging people who judge people when the Bible is against condemnation?

I don’t know where else to put this but I feel like typing.

 

I have posted before that my father attempted suicide January 26th 2016 and didn’t accomplish what he wanted to accomplish. He now resides in a home where he is blind and has the mental capacity of a 5 year old. For the first 7 months I was driving 5 hours one way to see him every weekend. Some visits were for an hour and sometimes he was asleep but I had to go see him as his only child. 

Also, on the same day my father chose his path my stepfather died of cancer. He was an incredible man who was awarded a Purple Heart. He treated my mother like a queen and was a true prince of a man. I watched him fight for over a year a fight that we all knew he would lose. It was hell and completely unfair.

I will say during that day that I became closer to God. I never once said why me. I do remember saying I know God will not give me more than I can handle but I really wish he didn’t trust me so much. 

 

I will now fast forward 4 years to now. I posted about surviving an F4 tornado on Easter Sunday. The whole day I had a bad feeling seeing that the storms were coming from the south as that is always bad in Tennessee. Long story short is we got into the hallway bath just in time and surrendered to God. We could see the roof about to break away from the house and I told my wife we have done all we can do and it’s out of our hands. It was over in 10 seconds but really humbled us. 

Our anniversary was a few weeks later and things were pretty much back to normal. Things are going good and we both have great jos and friends. I am even lucky enough to snag a little muff on our anniversary. Things continue to roll on for about 6 weeks and everything is great. We are happy and our dogs are healthy and what more could we want?

I have always wanted children and my wife always said she didn’t. I thought it was a phase and she would snap out of it but as the years went on I learned that it might not be a phase and what a shame it would be as I have seen how well she treats our pups and what a phenomenal mother she would be. I had actually started to build some resentment but I kept it buried. I thought my wife didn’t want kids because she thought she couldn’t have kids. She had some issues and a surgery back in 2016 ( same year of dad and stepdad) and we were told we should let the dream of kids go.

Well, one week in May on Wednesday I woke up around 2 am to let the dogs out ( ruff, ruff, ruff) and couldn’t get back to sleep and my mind started wondering. I started thinking about children and how it obviously wasn’t going to happen and I surrendered myself to God and said I accept what you give me and I am thankful for what I have with my wife. I stayed that Saturday night at the lake and when I came home the next morning I noticed my wife following me around the house. I get to my closet and there is a book in it. The book was Your Baby’s First Words Will Be Dadda. I didn’t get it at first and was annoyed that it was in my way but then I see her with big tears in her eyes and she says “You’re going to be a daddy”. I fall to my knees with joy as I cannot believe I will be a first time dad at 40!

I make the mistake of looking up miscarriage stats and immediatly go down a dark road thinking I got my hopes up for nothing. I am a nervous wreck for 2 weeks and I cannot sleep or eat but my wife is calm and not worried. She has such a calming grace about her during this time. We go to doctor and get the due date. The date is the same day of my father and step father. We both start crying and I finally feel like this will happen.  I just don’t think it’s a coincidence. You can call me a sheep or whatever but I thankful for the life God has given me and I will praise him in the good times and in the bad. We are well aware the rug could be pulled out from us at any moment but I will give God the glory either way. 

 

We are at 19 weeks and I would appreciate any and all prayers!

Congrats

[CHIEF 5075]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Sure, why not?  We see that theology with the robbers on the cross and that comes straight from jesus mouth. Your “punishment” for not walking with christ in this life comes from missing out on this relationship for most of your life. 
it’s not a punishment handed out by a living God it’s a consequence of your decisions and actions. But he still loves you and will welcome you to the fold at any time. 
At least- that’s what I believe from my study and meditation and teaching I’ve received. 

This is my Mom's philosophy. You miss out on the comfort, joy, mercy, and love that an "Abundant" life brings, and have to experience the hardships of life without those things that God, the Holy Spirit, and God's promises bring.

CHIEF

[Wulaw Horn 19064]

1 minute ago, CHIEF said:

This is my Mom's philosophy. You miss out on the comfort, joy, mercy, and love that an "Abundant" life brings, and have to experience the hardships of life without those things that God, the Holy Spirit, and God's promises bring.

CHIEF

Your mom is a wise woman I believe. 

[ztejas 43411]

42 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Born 1/4 Jewish. 

[Guest Lobo]

No good?  My mom is 1/2 Sephardic.  Doesn't that make me 1/4?  I dunno, I didn't get the Jewish math gene.  

[ztejas 43411]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

No good?  My mom is 1/2 Sephardic.  Doesn't that make me 1/4?  I dunno, I didn't get the Jewish math gene.  

I kind of subscribe to the idea that being Jewish is a zero-sum thing and passed down through the mother. But there are different schools of thought.

[Guest Lobo]

So my maternal grandfather was a Sephardic Jew from the Iberian Peninsula.  He marries a Catholic Mexican woman.  So doesn't that make their children, all 9 of them, half Sephardic Jew?  I realize it was on the father's side and Jewish edicts are different with regard to the mother.  But science/23&Me, and not Jewish law, would still say my mother is 50% Sephardic Jew.  Right?  And so if she, half Iberian Jew and half Hispanic, marries a Lutheran German...doesn't that make my mother's son (ME)...a quarter Jew on my mother's side?  I mean, I'm not even nitpicking organized faiths/tribes at this point....just basic fractions.  Which again, I did not inherit any mathematical proclivities from my German or Jewish sides so I could be wrong.  And we're talking ethnically Jewish, not just the religious aspect.  

Anyway, back to following Christ.  Curious to hear if any of you Surly husbands have married into a different faith but sorta feel compelled lately (2020 will do to that a man) to get back to faith of your own upbringing despite your wife's wishes to the contrary.  

[ztejas 43411]

5 minutes ago, Lobo said:

And we're talking ethnically Jewish, not just the religious aspect

Right. The issue is that I think a lot of people don't really make a distinction here. If your mother wasn't Jewish and you didn't practice Judaism growing up then you aren't Jewish. Yes it's an ethnicity but the ethnicity is rooted in religion. There are black Jews, white Jews, brown Jews - it isn't like being white or black.

I guess I just feel like the term "1/4 Jewish" is kind of silly - because it doesn't really capture the idea of being Jewish. It might make more sense to say something like "I have Jewish ancestry on my mother's side".

The more religious Jews would probably ask you, well are you Jewish or not?

But I might just be talking out of my ass. I'm a WASP through many generations with some Swedish and Irish thrown in for good measure. 

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, we're getting off a tangent that for once, I wasn't purposely trying to do.  This would be a good conversation for another thread because I have a lot of researched thoughts on this and sounds like you do too.  

But I would like to get back to my earlier question for those who consider themselves followers of Christ (as both the OP and myself do)...have you oscillated between denominations/churches/faiths/et. al. in marriage and/or older age?  And what drives that?  

[South Austin 52448]

14 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:

I get to my closet and there is a book in it. The book was Your Baby’s First Words Will Be Dadda. I didn’t get it at first and was annoyed that it was in my way but then I see her with big tears in her eyes and she says “You’re going to be a daddy”. I fall to my knees with joy as I cannot believe I will be a first time dad at 40!

. . .

We are at 19 weeks and I would appreciate any and all prayers!

Of all the pain in your thread, this was a joy to read. 

Prayer sent to an anonymous Surly asshole and his wife and child.