Do We Have a Christ Followers Thread?

[F250 28764]

On 8/23/2020 at 8:32 PM, Anastasis said:

Lxx>>>mt. 

I don't disagree but that claim will get you cut in some circles.

[PRONG HORN 3140]

8 minutes ago, F250 said:

I don't disagree but that claim will get you cut in some circles.

So this Septuagint thing is the most accurate translation?  Which circles deny that?

[luke duke 6412]

[F250 28764]

4 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

So this Septuagint thing is the most accurate translation?  Which circles deny that?

It's a disagreement between Protestants and Catholics/Orthodox.

It's more than just a quibble about translation goes back to the Reformation. Luther rejected the established biblical canon as well as the Church's authority to establish the canon. Up until that point Christian scripture was based on the septuagint which also included some other books. Luther did a little trimming, probably too much because he tried to toss out some NT books too. Eventually Protestants settled on 66 books of the bible and relied on the MT.

By claiming MT was established Jewish canon they were able to skirt around the notion that the canon was established by Church authority and Tradition. It allowed them to support the idea of Sola Scriptura but historically Jewish canon wasn't established yet as Judaism was working out their canon around the same time Christianity was.

Basically it was a way of claiming independence from the Catholic church.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

6 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

ETB, I am sorry for your pain and struggle. But a couple of things you have said stood out as the crux of your delimna.

1. You said that the pastor confessed to the congregation while you were not there to hear the apology. You need to hear it. So go to his elders and say that this pastor owes it. Talk to your wife about this part so that you can have salve for the pain that hurts you. It is the duty of the pastor and the church that serves you to get this done. You aren't letting go of the anger because, in part, you never got this apology. It wasn't enough that he said it while you were gone, in fact, it was cowardly to do it without your family present. If your wife doesn't understand this, go to the elders anyway. Find one you trust to be a referee between you and your wife and speak again to needing this. She may say this shames her unnecessarily and that is really her issue and if it is, then you know and can decide to stay on the roof or board the helicopter.

2. This sentence stood out to me. I don't know that I understand what you mean so maybe you can explain, but it seems to be at the heart of your relationship issue. "My wife and I struggle very much with our own selfishness and self-serving in our marriage, as I'm sure all couples do."  What does that mean? You fight over the last piece of bread, who gets the newer car? Whose troubles get listened first when you both have had a bad day and want to talk it out? I don't think this is all couples problems because if it is constant and about big issues then they split because they are incompatible. 

Seems to me your marriage needs a referee, and if you can trust your elders, start there. Good luck in finding your way through this. 

1 - For the record, this is not "my church."  I attended bed side baptist for the last 4-5 years.  This was my wife's church that she took the kids, joined her mom, etc.  Without discussion, she just no longer wanted to attend our old church (I liked that church). I have never liked the church where they decided to migrate, b/c it is weak theology... bread and water, no meat. The pastor has apologized to me, and I bought it.  Stupid me.  

2 - As a 5-year recovering drunk, I served self, and chased the next drink, never the last. Took me 5 years to stop those ways, even though alcohol is no longer present.  I still struggle mightily.  

We are very different people, but divorce is not an option for me.  I want to respect each other, and learn to love each other for our differences, not resent each other.  It took me a LONG time for Christ to get ahold of my heart, so I'm holding out hope for her.  I once despised the ground she walked on, zero attraction, etc.  When I learned (again) the true love of Christ, "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us," and that truly and sincerely hit my heart like a freight train, I saw this woman for the first time.  Love overcame me, and it still does to this very day.  While I get frustrated, I'm letting go of resentments, and I'm learning to LOVE!  

[burntorangebongos 10710]

So the 2 that you answered about is regarding  the disease called alcohol addiction and not about the line I quoted about two people being selfish and you thinking other couples go through this struggle. It doesn't match up.  You talked about 2 people and then you answered about your hard struggle. I don't know but I still think this is the thing to work on. Is she resentful of the hardship that you put her through due to your addiction?  Does she think that it gives her a right to get her way in things that are important for you both because of this? Just food for thought. 

I understand wanting to stay in your marriage.  This right here: "We are very different people, but divorce is not an option for me.  I want to respect each other, and learn to love each other for our differences, not resent each other."  This takes two people wanting it. Do you truly know that she does to the same degree as you is something that I would want to explore in order to get to where you want to be as a couple. 

I think this is what you have to find out. I'd see a professional about it if I were in your shoes, to be honest. I think it is definitely fixable if both of you are on the same page about this or pretty close. I hope you will seek assistance in this. Christian or not, we all deserve love and kindness from our spouse but getting over resentments that may have long festered is a bitch no matter how much you love the Jesus.  She has to still want what you want and get over the resentments and old wounds to make it work like you envision. I hope she does because I find it touching that you have fallen for her again and wish you the best. 

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

being a seminary grad who is also in long term recovery, i don’t know what to do with this thread.

though a Protestant, my theological beliefs would by all accounts be considered to be orthodox. yet i’ve seen and witness things within the recovery community...very real, tangible things...that are at odds with my orthopraxis.

i’ve witnessed people being “saved” yet i still have no idea what that means theologically...something that has not changed since seminary.

a person’s Path is their Path, and just because it’s not my Path doesn’t make it any less valid or true. maybe.

there’s some minutia in that statement that at odds with my orthodoxy, as well as some potential dangers for orthodoxy itself. maybe.

i do know that Easter has a very different meaning for me now than it did 10+ years ago when i was still “out there.”

maybe i simply don’t know as much as used to, or at least thought i did. or maybe not. hell i don’t know.

but goddamn i do so love the struggle.

[PRONG HORN 3140]

3 hours ago, F250 said:

It's a disagreement between Protestants and Catholics/Orthodox.  Luther rejected the established biblical canon as well as the Church's authority to establish the canon.  Basically it was a way of claiming independence from the Catholic church.

 

So Protestants are followers of some dude and his version of what he thinks the truth is?  So they're just like the Catholics then I guess.  

[F250 28764]

25 minutes ago, PRONG HORN said:

 

So Protestants are followers of some dude and his version of what he thinks the truth is?  So they're just like the Catholics then I guess.  

No, Protestants don't follow Luther. He just provided the justification for splitting with the Church. Luther's idea is why Protestants don't have an ecclesiastical hierarchy meaning they don't just follow some dude. Every dude is free to explain what they think is the truth. Hence, the many various sects that exist in Protestantism. Every few decades someone comes up with a new understanding.

 

 

 

[elfenix 34223]

4 hours ago, F250 said:

historically Jewish canon wasn't established yet as Judaism was working out their canon around the same time Christianity was.

reading karen armstrong (iirc - maybe it was tom holland) it basically went that constantine said, "if i'm going to rule a christian empire i need to know what a christian is" which provided the impetus for really working out the differences between judaism and early christianity.  there was a lot of riffing, mixing, and exchange of ideas happening way back when. 

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

7 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

I think this is what you have to find out. I'd see a professional about it if I were in your shoes, to be honest. I think it is definitely fixable if both of you are on the same page about this or pretty close. I hope you will seek assistance in this. Christian or not, we all deserve love and kindness from our spouse but getting over resentments that may have long festered is a bitch no matter how much you love the Jesus.  She has to still want what you want and get over the resentments and old wounds to make it work like you envision. I hope she does because I find it touching that you have fallen for her again and wish you the best. 

We were seeing a counselor (against her will, imagine that), but it didn't pan out.  Don't get me wrong, our attitudes were completely different going in.  I wanted conviction, and I wanted to be rocked, so I could make fundamental changes in my life.  She currently runs from conviction and struggle (minions doing work).  However, the counselor was a jerk, in my opinion.  He didn't know how to handle people differently.  He spoke to me on my character/personality level, and got through to me, but he tried to talk to her in the same regard, and it backed her into a corner.  Yes, part of that was conviction, but he didn't handle her with grace.  I'm not just sticking up for her, b/c I think there is some "cop out" in it, but he was an arse.

I've sense been talking to a new counselor, a pastor friend, who has been in credible.  He's a professional in character value set analysis and application and works with high profile people in state and federal governments (secret service to name one). He has been wonderful for me, and it is not anything I'm forcing on my wife, as badly as I want her to participate. Over our 12 year marriage, it didn't matter how hard she tried (same with alcoholism), no changes were going to be made unless ETB decided to make changes for the good of his own self.  As a believer, I truly believe in the power of prayer, so all I can do is relentlessly pray, seek positive earthly counsel, seek the Word, and seek Christ through thought and action.  May the fruits of my labor be a light to encourage change.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

*since

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Bump

My counselor has me going through Romans 12:9-21 and breaking down each verse, and different parts of individual verses, and journaling how I can use what God says and apply it to my marriage, and apply it to how I choose to treat my wife.  Example, verse 9 says that "love must be sincere" (NIV) or "without hypocrisy" (NASB).  Great discussion with him on how to break that down, what it looks like, and how to apply it to our marriage.

I'm telling you, I'm loving this counselor.  Really challenging my heart, getting me into the word, and helping me keep my focus on my own personal relationship with God, above my marriage.  When I'm focusing too much on our marriage as a primary focus, I get clouded by selfishness, and lack of reciprocation.  

 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

On 8/23/2020 at 6:13 PM, David Dennison said:

I don't believe in God. I don't mind if you do, just keep it to yourself, like Christ taught.

Uhmmm, Christ taught to keep it to yourself?  Explain the great commission then. Seriously, this take, its awful man. Those last three words make it really really false. 

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1084]

I don't follow him super closely, but what he's been able to do at Wisconsin with mostly 3-star recruits is amazing.

[TwiceHorn 31439]

2 minutes ago, J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. said:

I don't follow him super closely, but what he's been able to do at Wisconsin with mostly 3-star recruits is amazing.

Dammit.

 

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

I don't follow him super closely, but what he's been able to do at Wisconsin with mostly 3-star recruits is amazing.

This guy wins.

[Schulz2.0 28951]

On 8/25/2020 at 7:26 PM, luke duke said:

Jesus fucking Trump in the ass seems like a weird picture to keep on your nightstand.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Schulz2.0

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

Jesus fucking Trump in the ass seems like a weird picture to keep on your nightstand.

It’s Chuck Manson

[BearSchlong 8083]

It’s Chuck Manson

Yeah, it is.

Christ was a swarthy dude. Heck, he was probably black.

[deadshank 24652]

On 8/25/2020 at 10:29 AM, David Dennison said:

And Matthew Chapter 6 warns followers to hide their righteousness and pray in secret.

 

You’re being a silly boy again, DD.

Beware of practicing your righteousness before men.

Don't sound a trumpet before you give to the poor and call attention to yourself.

Don’t pray in public to call attention to yourself and be seen by men.

In other words don’t call attention to yourself when you can do these things for God’s glory and not your own.  Virtue signaling was as silly then as it is now.  Calling attention to your own “good deeds” diminishes the deed and exalts yourself over God. 
 

You knew this already but decided to put your spin on it to make yourself look all smarty-pants.  Your “half the story” act is lame.  
 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by deadshank

[TwiceHorn 31439]

35 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Yeah, it is.

Christ was a swarthy dude. Heck, he was probably black.

Swarthy middle easterner, most definitely.  Actually African black, probably not.  That seems to be the result of rather fanciful thinking along the same lines that made him a blond, blue-eyed white guy.

[Anastasis 23463]

That Charles Manson pic is the gift that keeps on giving. Get dumbfucks from both sides biting on it. 

[workswithseed 2090]

7 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

That Charles Manson pic is the gift that keeps on giving. Get dumbfucks from both sides biting on it. 

?

[Anastasis 23463]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

?

I think it’s really the soft hand move that sets it apart. 

[Frieda’s Boss 181]

18 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Bump

My counselor has me going through Romans 12:9-21 and breaking down each verse, and different parts of individual verses, and journaling how I can use what God says and apply it to my marriage, and apply it to how I choose to treat my wife.  Example, verse 9 says that "love must be sincere" (NIV) or "without hypocrisy" (NASB).  Great discussion with him on how to break that down, what it looks like, and how to apply it to our marriage.

I'm telling you, I'm loving this counselor.  Really challenging my heart, getting me into the word, and helping me keep my focus on my own personal relationship with God, above my marriage.  When I'm focusing too much on our marriage as a primary focus, I get clouded by selfishness, and lack of reciprocation.  

 

ETB - I appreciate your openness in this thread. A couple of thoughts, with perhaps some questions because I didn’t go back to re-read anything:

1.  The church your wife and family attend has already restored the pastor who had an affair with your wife to his role as lead pastor?  In a matter of weeks? Titus 1:7-9 - 7 For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, 8 but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. 9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. 

Marital infidelity with a married woman puts a person well outside of qualified to lead a congregation. That is often a transgression that will never restore someone to pastor. The restoration process simply to congregant (typically at another church) is a long exercise in humility and biblical counseling. You need to run (not walk) from that church.  No idea where you live but if you’re having trouble locating a solid church, I’m sure folks here can point you to one. 
 

2.  As a follow to the above. Your children are minors that live in your household?  Do they know what has happened?  If I have the facts correct, they shouldn’t be anywhere near that church (and neither should your wife). You are the spiritual leader of the household and ultimately have the responsibility for the teaching your family is getting. If you get pushback from the in-laws, point them to the passage above and many others that discuss the qualifications for the role of pastor and ask them if that is really the type of pastor to whom they want to submit to their teaching. If their answer is yes, I suspect there are other motives for their loyalty to this church/pastor. 
 

3.  Really glad to read you are attending biblical counseling.  Definitely would encourage you to continue that  

You are going through quite the trial. I’ll end my lengthy post with James 1:2-4 - 2 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. 

 

 

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Update - things not looking good.  My kids are out of the church, but my wife's resentment towards me is x10.  She told my oldest daughter, but decided to do it on her own.  If you pray, I need as much as you are willing to pray.  I'm so broken and devastated right now.  Christ came into my life at the exact right time.  Peace, brothers and sisters.

[Bash Riprock 1695]

“Religion invites us to a self-cleanup, a self-improvement, a self-healing a self-fixing. And Jesus Christ invites us to recognize that our self has already been done away with and we’re new and he loves us and he likes us and he embraces us and he’s crazy about us and he doesn’t want us to worry about us. Religion invites us to be fixated on our sins and our performance.  It used to be you would pay money to get your sins forgiven then it was to visit a guy in a pine box and talk to him and walk away and your sins are forgiven then it was to fire up apologies to God and He’ll zap you with more forgiveness. All of THAT says it is not finished. Jesus Christ invites us to a Gospel that says “It is finished (John 19: 30)”. Your old self has been crucified and it’s finished and your sins, your dirty rotten sins, have been forgiven and it’s finished. So then what’s left? The only thing left is Jesus Christ and He wants it that way. He wants you fixated on Him and obsessed with Him and He’s rigged it so you don’t have to worry about yourself and your sins anymore.”

[Trey3216 15345]

Could use some prayers right now.   Wife and I checked into BSW-Waco on Thursday to prep for Inducing our first baby, a sweet little girl.  Well, she was born yesterday at 1:26PM.  Beautiful, strong little girl that is healthy but for one thing.   We found out after about 2.5 hours that she has esophageal atresia, and that she was gonna have to go to Temple to NICU for surgery as soon possible.   So I had to leave the wife at 5:45/6ish yesterday in recovery and head to Temple with the daughter (damn if that’s not some mind-bending, difficult shit).   Got to speak with the surgeons last night and they’re looking at a Monday surgery (uggh), and quite a battery of tests today.   I stayed with her until about 1:45 last night, and am back em route to NICU rt now.   Got 5 hours of uninterrupted sleep somehow, but I had been up for over 24 hours at that point and that was after sleeping for about 2 hours each on Wed and Thurs night.    
 

So, I just need prayers.  For my daughter, first and foremost, that she’ll continue being the scrappy little thing she’s been the entire process. Kicking, screaming fighting machine with an iron grip of a hand for a little baby girl.  
 

for the surgeons, that they can complete a successful and ultimately not too invasive surgery on her, which will help her recover quickly and effficiently.  
 

for my wife, because she’s hurting deeply.  Her first baby taken from her arms and rushed away.   The hurt in her voice last night was enough to make the strongest men break down.   
 

for me.  Because I’m that strongest of men, but that little girl already got me scrambling to break walls down for her, and I have to be able to break walls and setup “afternoon tea”.  I just need some prayers for my sanity that I can keep mama emotionally and physically ok (with her history of seizures under stress), stay with the baby as much I can possibly stay awake, and keep my house in order financially all at the same time.   I’ll be under a tremendous amount of stress for a while, and I know I’ll be ok, but with the Good Lord on our side, all things are possible.     
 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Trey3216
Obligatory F 2020

[Message Board User 12395]

Damn - what a nightmare scenario.  so sorry to hear that.  T & P.

[Brisketexan 105071]

Trey, do what you gotta do. Be the strength that your girl and your wife needs.

And know the single greatest piece of theology I’ve ever been given...by my old barber of all people, when I was deep in the shit: you are not alone. You are not going through this alone. Know that.

And we all look forward to hearing the update of good news, and relaxed breaths for you all, on Tuesday.

[MissingInAction 25013]

I have no doubt Jesus was a swinger. The apostle orgies must have been epic.

You just know dicks touched. 

[South Austin 52454]

Prayers and Horns up for you, your wife, and your fighter of a daughter, Trey.

My now 14-year-old girl had to spend a couple nights in NICU in her first week. Not as serious as your situation, but I know the gut-wrenching feeling. Be strong for your wife.

[Trey3216 15345]

Thank you guys!  Seriously means a lot.  Nervous times, but we are confident after talking to the surgeons. 

And we’re actually gonna get to do the surgery tomorrow at 8am.  Surgeon is satisfied that she doesn’t have any signs of the other co-morbidities that can result from esophageal atresia (spine/heart/intestines/kidneys/etc) and that we can proceed to fix the actual problem.   So that is some relief.

[Anastasis 23463]

4 hours ago, Trey3216 said:

Thank you guys!  Seriously means a lot.  Nervous times, but we are confident after talking to the surgeons. 

And we’re actually gonna get to do the surgery tomorrow at 8am.  Surgeon is satisfied that she doesn’t have any signs of the other co-morbidities that can result from esophageal atresia (spine/heart/intestines/kidneys/etc) and that we can proceed to fix the actual problem.   So that is some relief.

Lit a candle for your daughter, wife, and you this morning my internet friend. 

[phdhorn 6224]

May the Lord cause you to flourish, both you and your children.

- Psalm 115:14

[gsoda3 3246]

And we know that ALL things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

Rom 8:28

[Trey3216 15345]

Read Psalm 30 with the surgeon & nurses  after he said a prayer with us this morning prior to the procedure starting.   It made him smile quite a bit and he said “Jehovah Rapha, The Great Physician.  With His help, we’re gonna fix you’re baby girl up just fine.”   Pretty cool moment.  She’s in surgery now, and first impressions from the bronchoscopy are about as good a situation as can be.  

[Nonbryan 173]

It's going to go well.....God is good my friend.  We are keeping your baby girl and your family in our prayers.

[Trey3216 15345]

Update: 

Surgery was successful and surgeon was pleased with how it went.  Lot of things to monitor over the next 8 days even before we get to real, actual recovery things.  All is well here. We've been done for about an hour or so.  Jenn and I are eating with the fam while they get Charlotte prepped to rest and where we can visit with her again.   We are relieved, but are just still at the beginning of the journey.   But it's a journey that's off on the right foot 

[Message Board User 12395]

2 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Update: 

Surgery was successful and surgeon was pleased with how it went.  Lot of things to monitor over the next 8 days even before we get to real, actual recovery things.  All is well here. We've been done for about an hour or so.  Jenn and I are eating with the fam while they get Charlotte prepped to rest and where we can visit with her again.   We are relieved, but are just still at the beginning of the journey.   But it's a journey that's off on the right foot 

Great news.

[Anastasis 23463]

34 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Update: 

Surgery was successful and surgeon was pleased with how it went.  Lot of things to monitor over the next 8 days even before we get to real, actual recovery things.  All is well here. We've been done for about an hour or so.  Jenn and I are eating with the fam while they get Charlotte prepped to rest and where we can visit with her again.   We are relieved, but are just still at the beginning of the journey.   But it's a journey that's off on the right foot 

Yeahs great to hear. Can’t imagine y’all’s journey on this.  Pandemic pregnancy, neonatal complications etc. stay strong man. 

[Trey3216 15345]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yeahs great to hear. Can’t imagine y’all’s journey on this.  Pandemic pregnancy, neonatal complications etc. stay strong man. 

It’s been wild.  No parenting classes, no breathing classes, no nothing.  Learning shit from our family and friends and YouTube, then all of this.   But it’s all in a journey 

[Anastasis 23463]

1 minute ago, Trey3216 said:

It’s been wild.  No parenting classes, no breathing classes, no nothing.  Learning shit from our family and friends and YouTube, then all of this.   But it’s all in a journey 

No joke man. The journey is already a trip withou the complications. My youngest spent a trip in the pediatric ICU with some reactive airway shit that we didn’t see coming.  We got kinda lucky in that we had him in the ER when he crashed and things got dicey. We were on the borderline of riding it out at home and things may have gone bad if he hit that wall at home. 
 

this little girl is going the be the center of your universe after all this. Lucky girl. 

[South Austin 52454]

Raising a glass of Italian red to Charlotte. Really happy to get a good report, Trey. 

[phdhorn 6224]

Great news.

Yeah, yeah I know "White-Guy-Jesus-who-looks-like-Bob-Schneider" (who by the way lives in my neighborhood) is a little corny, but I think the sentiment is perfect. He's got this.

[Clintonaldo 2573]

I love the name Charlotte. 

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Awesome stuff, Trey.  The power and comfort of prayer is like nothing else on earth.  Blessings to you and your family!

[Rougarou 594]

God is good!

[Post Oak 20208]

On 9/27/2020 at 3:55 PM, Trey3216 said:

Update: 

Surgery was successful and surgeon was pleased with how it went.  Lot of things to monitor over the next 8 days even before we get to real, actual recovery things.  All is well here. We've been done for about an hour or so.  Jenn and I are eating with the fam while they get Charlotte prepped to rest and where we can visit with her again.   We are relieved, but are just still at the beginning of the journey.   But it's a journey that's off on the right foot