Do We Have a Christ Followers Thread?

[bolverk 29648]

12 minutes ago, F250 said:

I have an SBC background too. I remember the reprogramming in the mid 80's. I also remember the effort of getting old yellow dogs to switch sides back when the religious right first started making their moves.

Yeah, I remember all that, too. It was going on about the time I started to become aware of not only how hypocritical it was but also how it was becoming increasingly conservative. I vaguely recall chatter around then about the conservative attempts to take over Baylor, but I was more or less checked out and only went when absolutely forced to by my parents.

I ended my participation with all youth group shit around 1984-85 (I would've been 13-14) when we got a new youth pastor who was a real freaky fire and brimstone guy. In the very last meeting I attended, he began by having us gather around, dimming the lights, making us watch him light a candle and letting it drip into a bucket, and then telling us each drop was a soul descending into hell. 

I was absolutely done after that.

[BearSchlong 8083]

As a PCUSA who somehow ended up at Baylor but can't stand their message board users, thanks for letting me hang.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Also, I can't get my wife near a church, because she's still dealing with multigenerational PTSD from her great granddad’s church.

I've heard some things.

“He was tall and he was handsome
And he preached the holy word
And the women of Wayne County
Would all melted at what they heard
He preached heaven for the sinner
Through salvation from above
But the ladies came to hear him
For the way he talked of love.

Brother Shelton, Brother Shelton
Well, you seem to understand
You were kind and you were gentle
With the word at your command
And your very much a man.

I was young and I was aching to be loved by my first man
I was frightened by feelings and I knew he'd understand
So he took me in his strong arms and melted me one night
Saying feelings all from heaven
Darling love always right.

Brother Shelton, Brother Shelton well
You seem to understand
You were kind and you were gentle
With the word at your command
Brother Shelton, Brother Shelton
Will you hold this poor girls' hand
You were wise and you were tender
And your very much a man.

Yes, he loved me and I knew that
I had his baby deep inside
But nobody would believe me
He already had a bride
They'd just say that I was lying
I'd be punished for my sin
So there's nothing left but leaving
With a lesson learned from him.

Brother Shelton, Brother Shelton
Now this poor girl understands
That you preach a different sermon
When you touch a woman's hand
Brother Shelton, Brother Shelton
Praying at your preachers stand
But the Lord and I know different
Your just another man.

Brother Shelton, Brother Shelton
Now this poor girl understands
That you preach a different sermon
When you touch a woman's hand
Brother Shelton, Brother Shelton
Praying at your preachers stand
But the Lord and I know different
Your just another man...”

[HouTex 1866]

2 hours ago, BeardIP said:

Do Catholics still call condoms / birth control a sin?

Not an approved form of birth control, but I think being considered a sin is a little much.  Like most Catholics, I don’t agree with the Church’s views on birth control.  I got a vasectomy after my two daughters were born.  I hope I’m not going to hell. 

[Fondren & Main 6700]

Just now, HouTex said:

Not an approved form of birth control, but I think being considered a sin is a little much.  Like most Catholics, I don’t agree with the Church’s views on birth control.  I got a vasectomy after my two daughters were born.  I hope I’m not going to hell. 

Lucky for you only one sin can’t be forgiven and that’s unbelief.  Sounds like you’re safe.

[F250 28762]

9 minutes ago, HouTex said:

Not an approved form of birth control, but I think being considered a sin is a little much.  Like most Catholics, I don’t agree with the Church’s views on birth control.  I got a vasectomy after my two daughters were born.  I hope I’m not going to hell. 

Well, thank God for purgatory.

[Anastasis 23455]

13 hours ago, YGIFS said:

The Nicene Creed is one of the most frequently mistranslated tenants of Christianity.  And that's saying something.  

I got 99 problems but a latin translation ain't one.

I feel like we really missed an opportunity to dig into homoousious, homoiousious, substantia, essentia, essence, substance, one, similar, same before the thread took a different direction. 

But frankly the recipe exchange was probably more enlightening, and the other discussion would have been some theological discussion navel gazing. 

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

12 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I got 99 problems but a latin translation ain't one.

I feel like we really missed an opportunity to dig into homoousious, homoiousious, substantia, essentia, essence, substance, one, similar, same before the thread took a different direction. 

But frankly the recipe exchange was probably more enlightening, and the other discussion would have been some theological discussion navel gazing. 

That recipe does look worthwhile!

[Fondren & Main 6700]

48 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

An interesting interpretation.

An oversimplification maybe.  But, essentially, rejecting God at death is the only unforgivable sin.  What’s your interpretation?

[jettrink 40]

I'm not a sinner

I've never sinned

I've got a friend in Jesus

When I die and they lay me to rest

I'm going to the place that's the best

[YGIFS 19449]

12 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

That recipe does look worthwhile!

Well first Jesus made a roux.  

[Anastasis 23455]

22 hours ago, bolverk said:

I mentioned to Anastasis before that I was raised Southern Baptist and never really understood what the Holy Spirit was supposed to be. Still, then again, the concept was hardly ever mentioned. Growing up, I basically thought "the Trinity" was just some weird Catholic thing like saints and popes and stuff that was part and parcel of a religious hierarchical bureaucracy.

Am I nuts or was there something edited out of this? It's been a extremely rough day, so my brain may be scrambled. I hope that there wasn't any offense taken based on what I saw earlier. I don't remember that one, but do recall and appreciate the opportunity in a prior discussion to elaborate on my views of the ultimate reconciliation. 

 As far as the above, I totally get it. I've spent more than my fair share in SB settings. I was not raised in a SBC family, but as a youth, I've been in their Sunday school classes, I've taken their biblical prophecy classes, I've taken their end times eschatology classes. I sat through a lot of services and was fucking confused as hell like I was watching an alien species because none of that stuff was even in the same universe of what I saw on Sunday. It took me a long time to reconcile the what, why and how of what I was seeing across these different experiences.    

 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52484]

9 minutes ago, jettrink said:

I'm not a sinner

I've never sinned

I've got a friend in Jesus

When I die and they lay me to rest

I'm going to the place that's the best

Penned and sang by a Jewish fella of course. 

[YGIFS 19449]

Well, to be fair to old Norman "Motek" Greenbaum, a lot of Jews had a friend in Jesus.  They were called the Apostles.  And everyday, they would go fishing together and he'd do magic tricks for them.  He'd even be their winged man to help them pickup chicks.  Still a great great road trip song for those reasons.  

[bolverk 29648]

26 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Am I nuts or was there something edited out of this? It's been a extremely rough day, so my brain may be scrambled. I hope that there wasn't any offense taken based on what I saw earlier. I don't remember that one, but do recall and appreciate the opportunity in a prior discussion to elaborate on my views of the ultimate reconciliation. 

 As far as the above, I totally get it. I've spent more than my fair share in SB settings. I was not raised in a SBC family, but as a youth, I've been in their Sunday school classes, I've taken their biblical prophecy classes, I've taken their end times eschatology classes. I sat through a lot of services and was fucking confused as hell like I was watching an alien species because none of that stuff was even in the same universe of what I saw on Sunday. It took me a long time to reconcile the what, why and how of what I was seeing across these different experiences.    

My only edit to my post was to add the word "concept." It was one of those occasions when I accidentally skipped a word as I was typing and saw my mistake after hitting reply.

No worries, though. I wasn't offended then (a few years ago) or now in the present. I was genuinely surprised when you told me that not believing in the Trinity was heresy. Just another ex-Baptist learning something I should've been taught 45 years too late.

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

I grew up in a hyper-protestant world.  Now have attended a conservative Anglican church for 25+ years.  I appreciate the liturgy and and am glad that we have bumper rails against whatever Brother Bob decides that he wants to emphasize (Generally it's all Romans, all the time, in my prior experience!)  YMMV, but this has worked well for me, plus I don't have to put up with the hippie music that my RC friends try to tolerate. 

[F250 28762]

1 hour ago, Fondren & Main said:

An oversimplification maybe.  But, essentially, rejecting God at death is the only unforgivable sin.  What’s your interpretation?

Augustine would agree, if you mean unrepentant until death.

[Anastasis 23455]

1 hour ago, DalTxHornFan said:

That recipe does look worthwhile!

100%

[Bozo_Casanova 26432]

2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

homoousious, homoiousious

The savory vegetables are of one substance (i.e, not of a similar substance) with the eggplant, and deliciousness proceedeth from the eggplant and savory vegetables, being of one casserole. 

[Anastasis 23455]

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The savory vegetables are of one substance (i.e, not of a similar substance) with the eggplant, and deliciousness proceedeth from the eggplant and savory vegetables, being of one casserole. 

Sir I can not tolerate this filoquie analogy, however well played it may be. 

[CHIEF 5075]

4 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

Lucky for you only one sin can’t be forgiven and that’s unbelief.  Sounds like you’re safe.

Unbelief is but one, the other is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:

31:And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32:Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

That is contributing the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan. Even a believer that uses the Lord's name in vain can be forgiven. 

Also, for those that use their OSAS as an excuse to sin:

Matthew 7: 21-23

²¹ “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. ²² Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

If you are gonna talk the talk, you need to walk the walk. We always are acting against human nature trying to live a life that we would want Jesus to approve of, and we never will be able to. That doesn't mean you don't try, and when you fail, repent, and try again. The idea is not to live your life for yourself, but to prepare your life so that Jesus may live his life through you.

CHIEF

[Willfully Horn 7999]

There are quite a lot of (conflicting) examples of what a sin against the Holy Spirit is, exactly.

This makes sense to me:

"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is conscious and hardened opposition to the truth, "because the Spirit is truth" (1 John 5:6). Conscious and hardened resistance to the truth leads man away from humility and repentance, and without repentance, there can be no forgiveness.“

 

 

[Samson's Wig 3190]

17 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Follow up - the REAL kicker on that is that the groups most likely to judge like a motherfucker....are also the groups most likely to excuse and cover up conduct that DOES fucking harm others (sexual offenses, etc.) because "well...he was tempted.  He's a godly man.  We should forgive him."  Judge like a motherfucker if someone simply BELIEVES differently, but excuse and cover up if someone else is actually harmed, BECAUSE the bad actor is a "believer, with a 'Jesus is Lord' card."

Excuse and protect a fucking rapist.  Because hey, he's a believer, and nobody is perfect!

Phone in a bomb threat to a drag queen who hasn't hurt anyone and who hasn't done anything except do a kickass job singing Gloria Gaynor tunes.

That's where we are.

Tribalism at its finest.  I understand it's human nature and that a lot of people will simply never rise above it, but it's still disgusting.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

17 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

As a PCUSA who somehow ended up at Baylor but can't stand their message board users, thanks for letting me hang.

Where my doubt really got started in REL 1310 my first semester when we got to the whole, "Well this gospel was probably first written down x hundred years after tradition states and wasn't written by this person but rather this person based upon this evidence" and all sorts of other things that were never taught in sunday school at the local FBC growing up. I wasn't really a religious person and only went to church because my parents made us go, so I was the perfect one for doubt in the text to grow with historical evidence. 

[Fondren & Main 6700]

19 hours ago, F250 said:

Well, thank God for purgatory.

Suck it Protestants!

['stache 21790]

It's almost as though even in this thread people read the same book and reach different conclusions. Weird that the almighty doesn't even attempt to set things straight.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

39 minutes ago, 'stache said:

It's almost as though even in this thread people read the same book and reach different conclusions. Weird that the almighty doesn't even attempt to set things straight.

See but the ambiguity is good for testing your faith or something like that.

[F250 28762]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

It's almost as though even in this thread people read the same book and reach different conclusions. Weird that the almighty doesn't even attempt to set things straight.

To be fair, I have the correct understanding and have been sent here to set things straight.

I will require an eleventh of all your crops and income. Plus your first born daughter on the ninth full moon of her 17th year for the awakening.

[Fondren & Main 6700]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

It's almost as though even in this thread people read the same book and reach different conclusions. Weird that the almighty doesn't even attempt to set things straight.

The ULTIMATE Choose Your Own Adventure!

[YGIFS 19449]

That's a good comparison, it really is like those books we read as kids, "Choose your Own Adventure."

'To follow the teaching that faith, hope, and love...and the strongest of these is love; turn to page 137.'

'To beat the shit out Bob next door for planting two different crops side by side, and you suspect he may be lay with other men, turn to page 46.' 

Not to get all "As a student of comparative theology" or a long Lobo rant.  But as I've further embraced higher powers and Jesus' teachings in middle age, it is weird to me that bible isn't that complex a book compared to other holy texts of other faiths.  Maybe something was lost in translation, but the Old Testament is an historical account, the New Testament is basically Jesus teaching good stuff.  Now we have 100+ recognized denominations, all of which fuck the whole thing up whenever they can.  Meanwhile, the other 4 "big books" are much more complex and purer in their translation over the centuries, but they somehow to remain closer to their original dogma.  

I remember a talk at the Ransom Center about the Gutenberg Bible (Johannes, not Steve).  She posited this theory that because it was the Christian Bible that was first to mass print, and not the other 4 holy texts of Buddhism, Shinto, Hinduism, and Islam..........that different interpretations spread earlier and faster and fractionalization began earlier (obviously it was already occurring in those other faiths but was relatively isolated in terms of geography and class).  

I suspect many of us have long struggled with the imbalanced question of whether or not this is all a leftover remnant from a time when we tried to explain why the world was the way it was.  Or is the feeling in our bones that something is behind all of this really true?  Has it endured merely because of perpetual habit that we invented on cold, dark nights?  Or is it baked into our DNA to provide some sort of compass?  

I only know three things to be true when it comes to Christianity.  There was some overture made by the universe to all life to help us.  Anybody that uses it to judge other people is a fucking asshole.  And we have no idea why we're here or happens when we die.  Other than that, it's just another tool in the toolbox to achieve selfish gains.  I'd rather people just admit, "I wasn't sent by God to save your country, I just like money and tits."  

[South Austin 52439]

You know what Christ did before his crucifixion?  Counterintelligence.  Christ is gone.  There is no Christ.

[Samson's Wig 3190]

15 hours ago, YGIFS said:

That's a good comparison, it really is like those books we read as kids, "Choose your Own Adventure."

'To follow the teaching that faith, hope, and love...and the strongest of these is love; turn to page 137.'

'To beat the shit out Bob next door for planting two different crops side by side, and you suspect he may be lay with other men, turn to page 46.' 

Not to get all "As a student of comparative theology" or a long Lobo rant.  But as I've further embraced higher powers and Jesus' teachings in middle age, it is weird to me that bible isn't that complex a book compared to other holy texts of other faiths.  Maybe something was lost in translation, but the Old Testament is an historical account, the New Testament is basically Jesus teaching good stuff.  Now we have 100+ recognized denominations, all of which fuck the whole thing up whenever they can.  Meanwhile, the other 4 "big books" are much more complex and purer in their translation over the centuries, but they somehow to remain closer to their original dogma.  

I remember a talk at the Ransom Center about the Gutenberg Bible (Johannes, not Steve).  She posited this theory that because it was the Christian Bible that was first to mass print, and not the other 4 holy texts of Buddhism, Shinto, Hinduism, and Islam..........that different interpretations spread earlier and faster and fractionalization began earlier (obviously it was already occurring in those other faiths but was relatively isolated in terms of geography and class).  

I suspect many of us have long struggled with the imbalanced question of whether or not this is all a leftover remnant from a time when we tried to explain why the world was the way it was.  Or is the feeling in our bones that something is behind all of this really true?  Has it endured merely because of perpetual habit that we invented on cold, dark nights?  Or is it baked into our DNA to provide some sort of compass?  

I only know three things to be true when it comes to Christianity.  There was some overture made by the universe to all life to help us.  Anybody that uses it to judge other people is a fucking asshole.  And we have no idea why we're here or happens when we die.  Other than that, it's just another tool in the toolbox to achieve selfish gains.  I'd rather people just admit, "I wasn't sent by God to save your country, I just like money and tits."  

Wait a minute, are you trying to tell us that Steve Gutenberg wasn't a printing magnate?  Then how do you explain his constant whining about some dude named Fust?  And also, how do you explain this image?

 

[YGIFS 19449]

Yes, but he was put to print under his pen name, 'Mahoney'  

[tx 3 putt 76863]

The devil is giving this piece of shit a high five. Hopefully he’s getting the dildo of consequences deep and often …

 

[YGIFS 19449]

Anybody know where's gonna be buried?  I assume somewhere in/around Houston?  So I take colossal shit on his headstone.  Or is that not "Christ Followers"-esque?  

He was the one that came up with the deflection talking point of, "Well, these heinous acts of a sexual nature are different.  You see.  Because the SBC has no central leadership structure, so you can't really call it institutional evil.  It was just...different."

When your defense against anally raping children in the name of God and Party...and your defense is your Church's fucking Org Chart.  Yeah, burn in hell motherfucker.  To be fair to Mr. Pressler, he was probably around a drag show brunch at some point in the 1940s.  

[WhatTheBuck 28772]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:01 PM, jettrink said:

I'm not a sinner

I've never sinned

I've got a friend in Jesus

When I die and they lay me to rest

I'm going to the place that's the best

And they say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better, but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun

[BearSchlong 8083]

My Son’s FIL is a UMC minister, and he just officiated his own octogenarian father’s funeral this afternoon, on Father’s Day. My son gets back from the ME in 4 days, so I was there to represent.

Interesting parable he used - there was a country doctor who traveled around the countryside in horse and buggy, making house calls. Everywhere he went, his dog would faithfully follow, trotting a few paces behind the buggy.

So the doctor gets word that one of his elderly patients was nearing the end, and he grabbed his bag and hat and took off down the road to visit. When he arrives, he heads up the stairs of the man’s farmhouse to attend the patient, but the dog, like usual, parks himself on the front porch to wait for his master to attend to business.

The doctor takes the vitals and sadly reports to the man that his organs are failing and that the end is near. The man nods knowingly, and asks the doctor “what happens to us when we die?”

The doctor thinks for a minute, says a quick prayer, and is at a loss for words. Suddenly, he hears the dog scratching at the front door, trying to get inside. He tells the man “I don’t know. I don’t know if there’s a heaven or hell or an afterlife but do you hear my dog scratching at your door? He knows I’m in here, and he wants to be close to me, he knows I give him food and water and shelter and kindness and affection and that’s all that matters to him. And I’d like to think that when we die it’s a little like that for us, we want to be close to our master.”

I’m not sure what that means, but it made me feel a little better.

(For all I know, there was a bear racing towards the house to devour the dog, the doctor, and the patient)

[CHIEF 5075]

2 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

My Son’s FIL is a UMC minister, and he just officiated his own octogenarian father’s funeral this afternoon, on Father’s Day. My son gets back from the ME in 4 days, so I was there to represent.

Interesting parable he used - there was a country doctor who traveled around the countryside in horse and buggy, making house calls. Everywhere he went, his dog would faithfully follow, trotting a few paces behind the buggy.

So the doctor gets word that one of his elderly patients was nearing the end, and he grabbed his bag and hat and took off down the road to visit. When he arrives, he heads up the stairs of the man’s farmhouse to attend the patient, but the dog, like usual, parks himself on the front porch to wait for his master to attend to business.

The doctor takes the vitals and sadly reports to the man that his organs are failing and that the end is near. The man nods knowingly, and asks the doctor “what happens to us when we die?”

The doctor thinks for a minute, says a quick prayer, and is at a loss for words. Suddenly, he hears the dog scratching at the front door, trying to get inside. He tells the man “I don’t know. I don’t know if there’s a heaven or hell or an afterlife but do you hear my dog scratching at your door? He knows I’m in here, and he wants to be close to me, he knows I give him food and water and shelter and kindness and affection and that’s all that matters to him. And I’d like to think that when we die it’s a little like that for us, we want to be close to our master.”

I’m not sure what that means, but it made me feel a little better.

(For all I know, there was a bear racing towards the house to devour the dog, the doctor, and the patient)

Bob George uses an analogy like that in his book "Classic Christianity." The parable is the difference between a city dog and a country dog. When you are just a Christian because everyone in your family is one, and you don't truly have a relationship with God, you are like a city dog. Always running away when the gate is open, always trying to dig out under the fence. Always doing something that is going to eventually catch up with you (running out into the street, and getting run over. Chewing an extension cord in two. Sprayed by a skunk.)

Ideally your relationship with God should make you like a country dog. You have no boundaries, you could walk to LA, Chicago, or New York. Instead, you are laying on the porch, or under the pick up waiting for your master for affection, attention, and a joy ride. You can do anything you want, but choose to be close by your master.

CHIEF

Edited June 16 by CHIEF

[BearSchlong 8083]

Hmmm. How about that. Thanks.

[South Austin 52439]

A young priest at my church has a saying (he may have borrowed from someone else):  The greatest enemy of faith is not doubt, but certainty.  For some reason I find that comforting

[SydneyCarton 48054]

38 minutes ago, South Austin said:

A young priest at my church has a saying (he may have borrowed from someone else):  The greatest enemy of faith is not doubt, but certainty.  For some reason I find that comforting

I dunno, I'm pretty certain that organized religion seems like a haven for sexual abuse, and it doesn't seem to be making a dent. 

[Anastasis 23455]

[gsoda3 3245]

A young priest at my church has a saying (he may have borrowed from someone else):  The greatest enemy of faith is not doubt, but certainty.  For some reason I find that comforting

Find another priest. The entire chapter of Hebrews 11 speaks of the certainty of faith.

Hebrews 11
1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
2
This is what the ancients were commended for.
3
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

.....


In Romans 8 Paul testifies to his certainty in Jesus.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, or anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Don't listen to teachers who diminish Scripture.

[CHIEF 5075]

2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

Find another priest. The entire chapter of Hebrews 11 speaks of the certainty of faith.

Hebrews 11
1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
2
This is what the ancients were commended for.
3
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

.....


In Romans 8 Paul testifies to his certainty in Jesus.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, or anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Don't listen to teachers who diminish Scripture.

My favorite chapter. As a kid, 50 years ago, my parents were part of a Bible study. It had its own building for the study, that building's name was "Romans IIX." My folks were kinda "hippies" (Mom more than Dad) it was a lot like the "Jesus Revolution" movie. A lot of people were baptized in stock tanks. But the primary theme was love and forgiveness. 

I watch quite a bit of Near Death Experience videos. They are fascinating. Unforgiveness is an underlying theme that, however your relationship with God is, causes him not to accept you into his Kingdom. "How can you not forgive someone, and want my forgiveness for every vile and ruthless thing you have ever done? So much so, that I sacrificed the thing that meant the most to me, my Only Begotten Son." 

CHIEF

[F250 28762]

13 hours ago, South Austin said:

A young priest at my church has a saying (he may have borrowed from someone else):  The greatest enemy of faith is not doubt, but certainty.  For some reason I find that comforting

Certainty prevents inspection and causes many to avoid being critical of their own faith until life presents a conflict between reality and faith. Often people's faith collapses when they were never prepared for a challenge.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Find another priest. The entire chapter of Hebrews 11 speaks of the certainty of faith.

Hebrews 11
1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
2
This is what the ancients were commended for.
3
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

.....


In Romans 8 Paul testifies to his certainty in Jesus.

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, or anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Don't listen to teachers who diminish Scripture.

Somehow I don't think that's the point the priest was trying to make.

[TwiceHorn 31435]

4 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Somehow I don't think that's the point the priest was trying to make.

Yeah, in my Methodist church, we were explicitly taught about other religions and schools of Christian thought.

Inevitably, that raised the question "are we right and they are wrong?"  The uniform response was that "we believe we are right, but that doesn't necessarily mean anyone else is wrong, they just may have a different path."  There was nothing even approaching "our way is the only way and the rest are fucked."  That may have been deeply implicit somewhere, but it was never said out loud.

I have racked my brain and I cannot think of a single prejudice that was instilled or reinforced by my church upbringing.

[Brisketexan 105048]

38 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Somehow I don't think that's the point the priest was trying to make.

My wife went through three years of mainline seminary training.  One of the go-to responses from multiple professors when they would be discussing a topic where they wanted to go deeper into the context, surrounding events, things that informed the scripture/text was "we can't really know."  Actual trained theologians, who have spent their lives in pursuit of understanding, didn't just grasp that "we can't really know" everything, they grasped that it's IMPORTANT that we acknowledge that.

Even if it WAS all answers (it's not...it's got a shitload of unanswered questions embedded therein)....scripture doesn't have the answers to everything.  Not even close.  FFS, part of the Catholic ritual is "lets us proclaim the mystery of faith."

Certainty is fucking poison.  Because if I am 100% certain, and 100% right, that means that anyone who is anything BUT in 100% agreement with me is WRONG.  And when it comes to such matters -- we're talking about literally the essence of all life itself -- well, someone who is WRONG is an enemy who must be opposed and fought against.  MAKE THE STREETS RUN RED WITH THE BLOOD OF THE NON-BELIEVERS!

As someone who has been a part of a faith community my entire life, whose wife's career is literally matters of faith, and who regularly works on matters of the church (from the local and mundane to major complex issues that involve legal overlap)....I'm pretty close to being fucking done with religion in this country.  Because I see it, consistently, causing 10X more pain than it brings in love, comfort, and healing.  If there was a substance out there that was occasionally tasty and nourishing, but more often made you violently shit blood for days....would you keep ingesting it?  Would you recommend that others ingest it?  Would you go with the bullshit justification of "oh, you just prepared it wrong -- make it the way that MY people make it, and it's great!"?  Fuck no you wouldn't.

[Pato del Muerto 52484]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

lets us proclaim the mystery of faith."

I can’t even read that in spoken voice with my inner voice. It defaults to sung/chanted. 

[Brisketexan 105048]

10 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I can’t even read that in spoken voice with my inner voice. It defaults to sung/chanted. 

No shit.  12 years of Catholic schooling sets one hell of a default, that's for sure.