Do We Have a Christ Followers Thread?

[Captainant 27404]

My faith is between me and god and is of no concern towards the greater evangelical movement to demonize, "other", and directly attack LGBT people in the name of Jesus' love.

[Armybrat 40710]

I believe the word of God in the Bible has been corrupted by generations of men far removed from the times of Jesus & Moses.
Undoubtedly to fit cultural agendas of tribal societies.

I’ll bet those two would be appalled at much of today’s interpretation.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

My faith is between me and god and is of no concern towards the greater evangelical movement to demonize, "other", and directly attack LGBT people in the name of Jesus' love.

You just answered.  No follower of Christ would be ashamed to admit it.  I suspected you were an anti-Christian non-believer who just wants to argue.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

2 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I believe the word of God in the Bible has been corrupted by generations of men far removed from the times of Jesus & Moses.
Undoubtedly to fit cultural agendas of tribal societies.

I’ll bet those two would be appalled at much of today’s interpretation.

Which of today’s interpretations, specially, do you believe are wrong?  Or is this just some general platitude?

[Celery Man 20881]

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

His point was that he wouldn’t be a member of a church that encourages adultery either. I don’t understand how y’all can’t grasp this concept of hate the sin and not the sinner. 

Because you can’t hate a “sin” that is inherent to who the “sinner” is without also hating the “sinner”.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Because you can’t hate a “sin” that is inherent to who the “sinner” is without also hating the “sinner”.

No sin is inherent.  

[Celery Man 20881]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

No sin is inherent.  

I agree.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

What about just praying the gay away?

[Captainant 27404]

16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You just answered.  No follower of Christ would be ashamed to admit it.  I suspected you were an anti-Christian non-believer who just wants to argue.  

Sounds like someone could do with a reread of Matthew 6.

Although it is a little on the nose for a clergyman, a deacon, taking on the role of the pharisee in Jesus' parable - proudly touting his charitable giving as a shield against criticism for his actions and words, and drawing loads of attention to how much effort he puts in to his church time so that he can discount people who don't pass his purity test. 

Keep on doing your thing, the Christian faith is definitely doing great heading in that direction. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Captainant

[Armybrat 40710]

25 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Which of today’s interpretations, specially, do you believe are wrong?  Or is this just some general platitude?

Generally speaking because of the human nature that God created.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Sounds like someone could do with a reread of Matthew 6.

Although it is a little on the nose for a clergyman, a deacon, taking on the role of the pharisee in Jesus' parable - proudly touting his charitable giving as a shield against criticism for his actions and words, and drawing loads of attention to how much effort he puts in to his church time so that he can discount people who don't pass his purity test. 

Keep on doing your thing, the Christian faith is definitely doing great heading in that direction. 

You're just playing games.  Clearly you are not a believer and you just want to argue and attempt little gotchas.  Atheist or agnostic?  Usually you guys are like vegans or crossfitters with your willingness to proclaim your disbelief.  I guess you can't do that and continue this little game.

I am certainly imperfect and will be judged some day.  I also have posted plenty of unkind and un-Christian things on this board and regret that.  I am trying to do better. Luckily my sins are nailed to the cross and I am doing my best to walk with Christ.  

God uses all sorts of imperfect people to advance his kingdom.  The scriptures are full of them.  David -- who the Bible teaches was a "man after God's own heart" -- was a murderer and adulterer.

[safe sex 11676]

Weird how being a homo is a bigger deal than adultery, blasphemy, and most of the other commandments, when being a homo is only commented on a couple of times throughout the book, and the translations of those verses can dramatically change the meaning of the text.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is impossible when it comes to something like homosexuality, which is an inherent and inescapable part of a person's being. All you end up with following that route are churches like Johnny's, which are gross and a discredit to the radical love Jesus preached

[Poe It Up 126]

2 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

Weird how being a homo is a bigger deal than adultery, blasphemy, and most of the other commandments, when being a homo is only commented on a couple of times throughout the book, and the translations of those verses can dramatically change the meaning of the text.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is impossible when it comes to something like homosexuality, which is an inherent and inescapable part of a person's being. All you end up with following that route are churches like Johnny's, which are gross and a discredit to the radical love Jesus preached

It’s not a bigger deal. But they’re not force feeding us adultery and telling us we have to like it. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

4 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

Weird how being a homo is a bigger deal than adultery, blasphemy, and most of the other commandments, when being a homo is only commented on a couple of times throughout the book, and the translations of those verses can dramatically change the meaning of the text.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is impossible when it comes to something like homosexuality, which is an inherent and inescapable part of a person's being. All you end up with following that route are churches like Johnny's, which are gross and a discredit to the radical love Jesus preached

It's not worse.  Anyone who says so is lying. 

The issue is homosexual sex -- like any other sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman -- is a sin some churches condone and preach that it is okay to deliberately commit unrepentantly.  No one does that with other sins, to my knowledge.  If they do, they are just as wrong in engaging in heresy.

Just as I expected.

[Pato del Muerto 52336]

3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

But adultery is and it’s expressly forbidden in the Ten Commandments. God reportedly etched it in stone. There is no “Thou shalt not be gay” commandment

Thou shall not kill is also etched in stone by god, but plenty of self proclaimed Christians have no issue with killing under some circumstances like capital punishment or the very broad definition of self defense. 

[South Austin 52105]

25 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

But they’re not force feeding us adultery and telling us we have to like it. 

Jesus Christ, nobody is force feeding you homosexuality and telling you that you have to like it.  They're just advocating for equal treatment under the law when it comes to rights such as marriage, parenting, and employment.  The same rights that adulterers enjoy.

[aggie08 21414]

5 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

You ignored my question on whether you’re a believer and took the time to delete my question from my post you quoted.  Why did you do that?  Why are you avoiding that simple question?

i answered your question. You didn’t answer mine.  

No, I'm not a believer anymore. I already said that people like you caused me to leave the Church. Pretty sure that already disqualifies me from being a "true believer", no?

I'd label myself as agnostic these days. I believe in a higher power, but it's hard for me to think any one organized religion is "correct". I'm stoked when people use their faith to practice love, acceptance, and equality, but that was rarely my experience in the Church.

The problem is people, not religion. The more I see people using their interpretation of a 2,000 year old book to justify thinking and saying truly heinous things--all while convincing themselves that their mere participation in church makes them a good person--the more I know that I made the best decision for myself.

[bolverk 29394]

6 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Are you a believer?  Do you have a daily walk with Christ?

If so, I’d caution and admonish you on judging others.  
I don’t deserve salvation at all.  I’m a wretched sinner.  But I have it by God’s grace and through his son Jesus.  

I pass back and forth between agnosticism and deism, depending on my mood. Either way, my belief doesn't matter because if there's a god, (s)he's going to do god stuff, which (s)he hasn't done in a long, long time. I don't believe that the all-knowing, filled-with-jealousy-god of other gods of the Old Testament was a thing though. That's just full of contradictions.

As for a believer in Jesus, I probably side with those who think he was an actual historical figure and that he was a righteous dude, regardless of his divinity, and I try to live my life according to the golden rule.

[mchookem 16184]

i've known two gay people since birth*, one male, one female. it was pretty obvious from a young age (5-7) that they were gay. NTTAWWT.

point being, they were 'made' that way. so if god made them, and god doesn't make mistakes...blame god for the 'sin', not the sinner? 🤔

 

 

*i've known more lol, these are just children of friends i've happen to known their whole life 🙂

 

[F250 28674]

8 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is impossible when it comes to something like homosexuality, which is an inherent and inescapable part of a person's being.

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is such a dumb cliche and it's often used to target specific people, usually people outside of the norm.

As more people begin to understand that homosexuality is not a choice but just how people were born the more likely people will separate from Christianity. We are already seeing this with younger generations.

The RCC acknowledges that it's not a choice but then requires refraining from homosexual behavior. They also consider fapping a sin and encourage asceticism which is frequently ignored by most Catholics. It will be interesting if homosexuality ever reaches that "meh, it's a venial sin" level.

Fundamentalists will continue to be fundamental. No change expected there.

 

 

[South Austin 52105]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

They also consider fapping a sin

Yet another reason I left the Catholic Church. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19092]

First, the Bible is not a first hand source.  The Gospels were actually written well after the deaths of the people that allegedly wrote them.  Later books, like Paul's letters to the Romans, the Corinthians, etc... actually have multiple voices, which indicate multiple authors, and they were influenced by the society around them.

Second, the church made a decision back in the 4th or 5th Century about what would be in the bible and what would be out.

Third, and what a lot of people forget, is that Jesus taught love, forgiveness, and treating everyone with respect and dignity.  Most "Christians" in America have completely lost that point, as is evidenced by the rantings of Johnny, Poe, and the village idiot.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

First, the Bible is not a first hand source.  The Gospels were actually written well after the deaths of the people that allegedly wrote them.  Later books, like Paul's letters to the Romans, the Corinthians, etc... actually have multiple voices, which indicate multiple authors, and they were influenced by the society around them.

Second, the church made a decision back in the 4th or 5th Century about what would be in the bible and what would be out.

Third, and what a lot of people forget, is that Jesus taught love, forgiveness, and treating everyone with respect and dignity.  Most "Christians" in America have completely lost that point, as is evidenced by the rantings of Johnny, Poe, and the village idiot.

You talk about kindness and love.  And then insult.  Something you do almost as frequently as your carpet bomb negs, which -- and I must admit I admire your dedication to -- are amusing at least.

Are you a believer with a daily walk with Christ?

[Poe It Up 126]

32 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Jesus Christ, nobody is force feeding you homosexuality and telling you that you have to like it.  They're just advocating for equal treatment under the law when it comes to rights such as marriage, parenting, and employment.  The same rights that adulterers enjoy.

They already have that. What they’re seeking is approval. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19092]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

You talk about kindness and love.  And then insult.  Something you do almost as frequently as your carpet bomb negs, which -- and I must admit I admire your dedication to -- are amusing at least.

Are you a believer with a daily walk with Christ?

Oh, are your fee fees hurt?  Suck it up, buttercup.  I am not the one proclaiming I am a good Christian, then treating everyone who isn't a WASP male like they are beneath me.  

Edited October 5, 2022 by PenelopeWitherspoon

[HouTex 1850]

7 minutes ago, F250 said:

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is such a dumb cliche and it's often used to target specific people, usually people outside of the norm.

As more people begin to understand that homosexuality is not a choice but just how people were born the more likely people will separate from Christianity. We are already seeing this with younger generations.

The RCC acknowledges that it's not a choice but then requires refraining from homosexual behavior. They also consider fapping a sin and encourage asceticism which is frequently ignored by most Catholics. It will be interesting if homosexuality ever reaches that "meh, it's a venial sin" level.

Fundamentalists will continue to be fundamental. No change expected there.

 

 

I doubt it.  Here is the official Catholic teaching from the Catechism and this is where I stand.  So, just to be clear, I don't disrespect or hate people that are homosexual-I have several friends that are homosexual, and I believe it's simply wrong that I must somehow reject the Church teaching and declare that homosexual sex (or extramarital heterosexual sex for that matter) as not sinful, or be labeled as a hater or just a bad guy.  As far as sin (according to the Church) goes, it really doesn't matter if you are an unmarried heterosexual or homosexual, sex outside of marriage is sinful. 

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,¹⁴⁰ tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."¹⁴¹ They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[aggie08 21414]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

They already have that. What they’re seeking is approval. 

Gee, you mean they want to be accepted and welcomed for who they are and not be told from self-righteous pricks that something that they have no control over is inherently a sin? The selfish bastards. How many kids have killed themselves in large part because people like you have convinced them that who they are is a sin?

[F250 28674]

4 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Yet another reason I left the Catholic Church. 

[Poe It Up 126]

3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Gee, you mean they want to be accepted and welcomed for who they are and not be told from self-righteous pricks that something that they have no control over is inherently a sin? The selfish bastards. How many kids have killed themselves in large part because people like you have convinced them that who they are is a sin?

We’re all sinners, so I would treat them the same as everyone else. I’m not going to approve of their sin just as I wouldn’t my own. Their issue is with God, not me. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 minute ago, Poe It Up said:

We’re all sinners, so I would treat them the same as everyone else. I’m not going to approve of their sin just as I wouldn’t my own. Their issue is with God, not me. 

Yep. My thoughts exactly.  I’m not going to spend more time arguing with the lost over it.  It isn’t productive.  

[safe sex 11676]

"The lost" lol

[F250 28674]

6 minutes ago, HouTex said:

As far as sin (according to the Church) goes, it really doesn't matter if you are an unmarried heterosexual or homosexual, sex outside of marriage is sinful. 

Yeah, as previously mentioned the RCC considers a number of things sinful that are largely ignored by Catholics these days. Divorce, second marriages, fornication, etc... things that were a big deal in our parents lifetime doesn't really seem to rock the boat these days. Sure the rules still exist but they don’t result in being a social outcast anymore.

[Captainant 27404]

5 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

We’re all sinners, so I would treat them the same as everyone else. I’m not going to approve of their sin just as I wouldn’t my own. Their issue is with God, not me. 

In terms of real things happening in the real world, no, their issue is with people changing public policy to enforce their religious standards on everyone vis-a-vis school curriculum censorship and """religious exemptions""" for healthcare to unilaterally deny medical care on purely religious grounds

[Foosters 17725]

This thread is hilarious and an excellent example of why an increasing number of Americans want nothing to do with this religion.

 

[aggie08 21414]

13 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

We’re all sinners, so I would treat them the same as everyone else. I’m not going to approve of their sin just as I wouldn’t my own. Their issue is with God, not me. 

Telling them that who they are--not what they choose to do--is a sin isn't "treating them the same as everyone else." And it has real-world consequences with suicide and depression. Their "issue" is with God...people like you just make their mortal life that much more difficult for God knows what reason.

But we're "lost." What incredibly small men you and Sack are.

[Poe It Up 126]

14 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Telling them that who they are--not what they choose to do--is a sin isn't "treating them the same as everyone else." And it has real-world consequences with suicide and depression. Their "issue" is with God...people like you just make their mortal life that much more difficult for God knows what reason.

But we're "lost." What incredibly small men you and Sack are.

I don’t envy their struggle, but their issue isn’t with me. 

[Armybrat 40710]

20 minutes ago, Foosters said:

This thread is hilarious and an excellent example of why an increasing number of Americans want nothing to do with this religion.

 

There is nothing wrong with the basic ideas of Christianity. It is a laudable way to live one’s life…..as long as it is not forced.

However, there are a lot of add-ons and different interpretations that can be questioned and/or ignored IMO.

 

[mchookem 16184]

49 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

We’re all sinners, so I would treat them the same as everyone else. I’m not going to approve of their sin just as I wouldn’t my own. Their issue is with God, not me. 

exactly...god made them gay, blame him.

[Foosters 17725]

Just now, Armybrat said:

There is nothing wrong with the basic ideas of Christianity. It is a laudable way to live one’s life…..as long as it is not forced.

However, there are a lot of add-ons and different interpretations that can be questioned and/or ignored IMO.

 

I agree. Like most religions, the problem lies not in the text, but in it's adherents who weaponize that text to suppress others, obtain power and wealth, and excuse their many deliberate immoral acts.

See, this thread.

[Celery Man 20881]

3 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

There is nothing wrong with the basic ideas of Christianity. It is a laudable way to live one’s life…..as long as it is not forced.

However, there are a lot of add-ons and different interpretations that can be questioned and/or ignored IMO.

 

People act as if their hands are tied while they cast aside the central message to rigidly conform to one interpretation of a small part of the message that justifies the evil they perpetrate alongside a large and vocal contingent of the church.

[bolverk 29394]

25 minutes ago, mchookem said:

exactly...god made them gay, blame him.

Some people are just born assholes. Blame him.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

33 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Some people are just born assholes. Blame him.

Plenty of evidence of that in the last few pages.  But not from me or Poe. Some can’t discuss without insults.  That hatefulness is on them.  

[Mole 4319]

Regarding “hate the sin, love the sinner,” even my good deeds are filled with selfishness and sin.

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Regarding some sins being “inherent,” they all are.

Romans 7:18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

 

[Brisketexan 104537]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

This thread is hilarious and an excellent example of why an increasing number of Americans want nothing to do with this religion.

 

YEP.  In other words, the exact folks who are the core of my wife's ministry: good people, with good hearts, who understand a greater spirit involved in human existence, but who cannot reconcile themselves with the cruelty and arbitrariness of "the Church" as you can see it portrayed in this very thread.

54 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

People act as if their hands are tied while they cast aside the central message to rigidly conform to one interpretation of a small part of the message that justifies the evil they perpetrate alongside a large and vocal contingent of the church.

Yep again.  I mean, let's imagine that you are a good and decent person.  You have heard of the Gospels, and certainly of the two great commandments (love God, and love everyone else).  And then you get this explanation of a "hard and fast rule" of the "Christian God:"

God says "Brisket...you were born with a longing in your heart and soul to be in communion with another person.  Since your earliest memories, it is what you have longed for -- it is a part of your being.  And you were so lucky; you FOUND a person to join yourself to.  You cared for each other deeply, you committed your lives to each other in a covenantal relationship.  You have stood by each other, in good times and bad, supported each other, and loved each other.  You have had a life together filled with joy, pain, love, loss, and yes, sexual intimacy.  You have been good to your neighbors and fellow men.  You have been faithful to each other, and have not had any similar relationship outside of the covenantal relationship you've had with your significant other.  When your partner was dying, you were there by their side, holding their hand, praying to God, and being there as their soul departed.  And now, it is your time.  As your last breaths are approaching, you ask 'will I see you on the other side, my Lord?'  And I answer with a thunderous "NO!  Because your partner had a dick, not a vagina, and you have not renounced your sinful choice of making your life with him.  Adios, evil one!" 

And thus, Brisket's soul is condemned for his sinfulness.

If your God would say that, fuck your God.

If your faith would echo that, fuck your faith.

If you think your Bible supports that, fuck your Bible.

THAT is what most 18-35 year olds think of the "Christianity" that they have shoved in front of them.  They CANNOT reconcile a faith that has as its foundational tenets "love -- love God and love everyone else," yet when that faith looks upon a true, loving relationship that just happens to be between two members of the same sex, it CONDEMNS that love......and for that, I give them great credit, because it is truly irreconcilable.

I have dear friends who are in lifelong, committed, loving same sex relationships (marriages, actually).  They make each other better.  Their family unit makes their community and world better.  They are good, kind, and decent.  And presumably, in the privacy of their home, they suck each other's dicks and such.  If you try to sell me on a faith that says they are condemned as sinners BECAUSE of that relationship, I ain't gonna buy your faith....especially when its brand is "love God and everyone else."  

Of course, that same faith used, for CENTURIES, the "Curse of Ham" to justify the enslavement of Africans, and also, for that matter, was used to support the argument IN MY PARENTS' LIFETIME against interracial marriage (including theirs).  So, the low enthusiasm of decent humans for adhering to a faith which preaches irreconcilable "otherness" while also purporting to be a faith of "love for all" is perhaps not just understandable, but indeed the only sane reaction.

Love one another.  Do not harm another.  If you are following those, you are indeed walking the Way.  If you are not running afoul of those, you are not violating the Way.  But that ain't what we hear from American Christian leadership and churches.  

 

[GW Hayduke 1952]

19 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Plenty of evidence of that in the last few pages.  But not from me or Poe. Some can’t discuss without insults.  That hatefulness is on them.  

[Armybrat 40710]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

YEP.  In other words, the exact folks who are the core of my wife's ministry: good people, with good hearts, who understand a greater spirit involved in human existence, but who cannot reconcile themselves with the cruelty and arbitrariness of "the Church" as you can see it portrayed in this very thread.

Yep again.  I mean, let's imagine that you are a good and decent person.  You have heard of the Gospels, and certainly of the two great commandments (love God, and love everyone else).  And then you get this explanation of a "hard and fast rule" of the "Christian God:"

God says "Brisket...you were born with a longing in your heart and soul to be in communion with another person.  Since your earliest memories, it is what you have longed for -- it is a part of your being.  And you were so lucky; you FOUND a person to join yourself to.  You cared for each other deeply, you committed your lives to each other in a covenantal relationship.  You have stood by each other, in good times and bad, supported each other, and loved each other.  You have had a life together filled with joy, pain, love, loss, and yes, sexual intimacy.  You have been good to your neighbors and fellow men.  You have been faithful to each other, and have not had any similar relationship outside of the covenantal relationship you've had with your significant other.  When your partner was dying, you were there by their side, holding their hand, praying to God, and being there as their soul departed.  And now, it is your time.  As your last breaths are approaching, you ask 'will I see you on the other side, my Lord?'  And I answer with a thunderous "NO!  Because your partner had a dick, not a vagina, and you have not renounced your sinful choice of making your life with him.  Adios, evil one!" 

And thus, Brisket's soul is condemned for his sinfulness.

If your God would say that, fuck your God.

If your faith would echo that, fuck your faith.

If you think your Bible supports that, fuck your Bible.

THAT is what most 18-35 year olds think of the "Christianity" that they have shoved in front of them.  They CANNOT reconcile a faith that has as its foundational tenets "love -- love God and love everyone else," yet when that faith looks upon a true, loving relationship that just happens to be between two members of the same sex, it CONDEMNS that love......and for that, I give them great credit, because it is truly irreconcilable.

I have dear friends who are in lifelong, committed, loving same sex relationships (marriages, actually).  They make each other better.  Their family unit makes their community and world better.  They are good, kind, and decent.  And presumably, in the privacy of their home, they suck each other's dicks and such.  If you try to sell me on a faith that says they are condemned as sinners BECAUSE of that relationship, I ain't gonna buy your faith....especially when its brand is "love God and everyone else."  

Of course, that same faith used, for CENTURIES, the "Curse of Ham" to justify the enslavement of Africans, and also, for that matter, was used to support the argument IN MY PARENTS' LIFETIME against interracial marriage (including theirs).  So, the low enthusiasm of decent humans for adhering to a faith which preaches irreconcilable "otherness" while also purporting to be a faith of "love for all" is perhaps not just understandable, but indeed the only sane reaction.

Love one another.  Do not harm another.  If you are following those, you are indeed walking the Way.  If you are not running afoul of those, you are not violating the Way.  But that ain't what we hear from American Christian leadership and churches.  

 

OU sucks in any case though.

[Brisketexan 104537]

Just now, Armybrat said:

OU sucks in any case though.

Well.....yeah.  It's right there, in the original Hebrew.  Only a heretic would mis-translate that.

[Celery Man 20881]

22 minutes ago, Mole said:

Regarding “hate the sin, love the sinner,” even my good deeds are filled with selfishness and sin.

Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Regarding some sins being “inherent,” they all are.

Romans 7:18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

 

There is a difference between

a) my imperfections and my faults being “inherent” to me as an imperfect human being with faults and

b) my skin color or attraction to women or height or freckle pattern or fondness of spicy foods or any other traits about me that are simply part of who I am as a human.

sinfulness is inherent to all of us, being gay falls into that category in exactly the same way as does being straight. There is no version of a loving god who creates gay people if their gayness by itself is sinful. You can believe that being gay is a choice, but that simply makes you a moron. 

[hayden_horn 11360]

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

We’re all sinners, so I would treat them the same as everyone else. I’m not going to approve of their sin just as I wouldn’t my own. Their issue is with God, not me. 

yet you've singled them out in a thread about...christ. why?

you tacitly or overtly approve of all kinds of sins every single day.

i also find it curious that you find gays in media somehow overrepresented. people like you were throwing a fit when the flintstones or mary kay and johnny put a married couple in the same fucking bed together.

sins change. jesus himself proved it. how we treat the sinful changed with jesus. 

so, poe, how would you treat a sinner? if your clever answer remains "same as everyone else," that will tell me all i need to know about your intellectual curiosity, and also implies that you treat everyone the same, which you do not. or do you?

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yep. My thoughts exactly.  I’m not going to spend more time arguing with the lost over it.  It isn’t productive.  

the lost, huh?

you're the guy that gets wasted and hateful on the political board from time to time, right? and hey, i ain't judging, i do too.

how do you measure sin, johnny? i'm genuinely curious.

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Telling them that who they are--not what they choose to do--is a sin isn't "treating them the same as everyone else." And it has real-world consequences with suicide and depression. Their "issue" is with God...people like you just make their mortal life that much more difficult for God knows what reason.

But we're "lost." What incredibly small men you and Sack are.

they really reveal themselves when they speak in code to each other. they think of it as an ichthus symbol, but it's more of a scarlet asshole.

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

What was it @Anastasisused to say? We need more lions.