Do We Have a Christ Followers Thread?

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1606]

I have a prayer request.

 

I am SGT Henley. Period. If we are to meet, you walk away. If you don't...

 

I will smoke your ass forever for all of my men and women that I have lost. Do not test me, do not question me. If you are of the ilk you claim, then my men and women of Valor rest in Valhalla.

As for you, you push.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

In this thread I’m learning I’m a terrible Christian because I believe the Bible is true and I’d be a better one for ignoring the parts that do not conform to society. I know what the Old and New Testament say about homosexual sex.  I know that Jesus said marriage is between and man and a woman.  
 

I get there can be disagreements over interpretations.  I admin that maybe I am wrong about mine.  Maybe Jesus didn’t mean to exclude same sex marriage when he discussed marriage.  Do any of you have the humility to think that just maybe you’re interpretations are wrong?   This question is only for believers.  Doesn’t apply to the atheists and agnostics because as non-believers you don’t have any skin in the game on whether the scriptures are true.  You don’t believe in them.  
 

some of my fellow Christians seem confident homosexual sex isn’t a sin and and same sex marriages are scriptural.  I don’t see given what God’s word says and doesn’t say on these issues where you get that confidence.  If you’re wrong you may be harming others and the Kingdom by not professing truth. 
 

For the record I’m not 100 percent confident on the issue.  I’m not God.  But based upon what scriptures we have, I can’t really take a contrary position.  I think a contrary position is scripturally baseless.  

Edited October 6, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[Johnny Sack 8397]

@Celery Man are you a believer?  Do you believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and died tor your sins so that you can have eternal life?

[Celery Man 20881]

The thing that you continue to refuse to acknowledge is that people who are gay are born gay, it is a part of who they are and they have no choice in the matter. It is not a new part of society that modern heathens are wanting the gospel to conform to, it is an inconsistency that exists between the central message and the small parts that some interpret as meaning that God created some of us with sin wrapped up as not just an inescapable proclivity but as a fundamental attribute of who we are as humans. I think a cleaner interpretation is that people who have prioritized that part of their scriptural interpretation to turn Christianity into the message of hate that much of society hears are both wrong and the ones responsible for damaging the kingdom and harming others.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Celery Man

[Celery Man 20881]

16 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

@Celery Man are you a believer?  Do you believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and died tor your sins so that you can have eternal life?

Yes. I’ve been largely driven away from the church by people who think like you, but I am a Christian and God has saved me in this life already.

 

not that it matters in the context of this discussion - non religious people have ample skin in the game when it comes to what a large portion of Christians think God wants them to do.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Celery Man

[DigglerontheHoof 21044]

13 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Those Western European countries you idolize certainly love and welcome in brown and blacks.  You can tell it by their very welcoming immigration policies.  And how they kindly give bananas to black soccer players.  So nice of them to feed those hungry players during games.  Shame on Americans for not following their lead.  

I have zero problem saying Christians are pieces of shit the world over; glad you agree that you and your ilk are a problem worldwide. 

[DaysOff 7843]

God damn I wish the rapture was true and not made up bullshit from the 1850s. Jesus, come get your people so I can enjoy the 30 years I have left on this planet.

[Goofyboy 3194]

The problem is that folks that believe homosexuality is a sin now want to kill those people. If you fucks could keep your beliefs to yourself, it wouldn’t be a problem. Instead, you assholes want to dictate how everyone else lives their lives, while simultaneously picking and choosing what you follow.

Yahweh was real clear - follow ALL of his rules or your souls is destroyed. There is no hell, no purgatory. Follow his rule or boom - gone. Your how to book of the Bronze Age that’s been translated and pieces together to control people has cause enough damage through the ages.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

54 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I have zero problem saying Christians are pieces of shit the world over; glad you agree that you and your ilk are a problem worldwide. 

So your belief is that non-believers in Europe, the USA and the rest of the world are better human beings than believers in Christ?

Edited October 6, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

The problem is that folks that believe homosexuality is a sin now want to kill those people. 

You see a lot of Christians that want to kill homosexuals for their sins?  I don’t see evidence of that.  

[F250 28674]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Do any of you have the humility to think that just maybe you’re interpretations are wrong?  

I've been alluding to this throughout this thread. There is no definitive answer except a personal "I believe". With that said, I will choose the side that doesn't treats humans as if they are less than human just because they were created slightly different than me. I would also add that I personally believe that Southern Baptist "doctrine" is so far removed from orthodox Christianity that it's difficult to take any of it's theological conclusions seriously. It's completely removed from the patristic founding of Christianity and unlike any of the groups that grew out of the Reformation. With it being so different and relatively new how can you be confident that it is sufficient?

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

8 minutes ago, F250 said:

I've been alluding to this throughout this thread. There is no definitive answer except a personal "I believe". With that said, I will choose the side that doesn't treats humans as if they are less than human just because they were created slightly different than me. I would also add that I personally believe that Southern Baptist "doctrine" is so far removed from orthodox Christianity that it's difficult to take any of it's theological conclusions seriously. It's completely removed from the patristic founding of Christianity and unlike any of the groups that grew out of the Reformation. With it being so different and relatively new how can you be confident that it is sufficient?

 

Don’t know and don’t care.  I couldn’t even tell you what the Southern Baptist doctrine is.  I don’t consider myself one.  If you have specifics about the SBC you disagree with, what are they?  I might agree with you.  
 

I like autonomous churches. Christ Is the head of His church.  Not denominations or conventions.  

Edited October 6, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[aggie08 21414]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

If you’re wrong you may be harming others and the Kingdom by not professing truth. 

As opposed to knowingly causing harm to others in this world for how God made them by spreading your interpretation of the truth.

Seems like an easy choice to me, but I'm "lost" and all.

[irishtexan 11445]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

In this thread I’m learning I’m a terrible Christian because I believe the Bible is true and I’d be a better one for ignoring the parts that do not conform to society.

You're not a terrible Christian. You're a perfect Christian. You're the ideal Christian. You embody every abhorrent characteristic of the current Christian movement - hypocritical, judgmental, rude, obtuse, narrow-minded, bigoted, xenophobic. Celebrate your peak Christiandom my friend! You've done it. You've won Christianity!

 

[Goofyboy 3194]

You see a lot of Christians that want to kill homosexuals for their sins?  I don’t see evidence of that.  

I see a lot more church leaders advocating for it and not enough “Christians” standing against it.

[bonnieblue 542]

Good rule of thumb: If it all goes dark and you wake up and see Jimmy Carter, you’re probably right where you want to be. If you see Johnny Sack, Poe and /or Bob Stoops… you might be in the Bad Place. If you see Workswithseed, you should probably quit doing meth.

[Serak The Preparer 3424]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I get there can be disagreements over interpretations.  I admin that maybe I am wrong about mine.  Maybe Jesus didn’t mean to exclude same sex marriage when he discussed marriage.  Do any of you have the humility to think that just maybe you’re interpretations are wrong?   This question is only for believers.  Doesn’t apply to the atheists and agnostics because as non-believers you don’t have any skin in the game on whether the scriptures are true.  You don’t believe in them.  

Without wading into trying to convince anyone whether any given interpretation of scripture is correct or not (they ain't gonna happen in this thread) I think the bolded statement is not correct. Atheists and agnostics do have skin in the game simply because Christianity has an immense amount of influence on culture and government at all levels. Not even arguing whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, but surely you agree that any given interpretation does impact us all (at least in this earthly life, if not afterlife)?

[morehornsepower 865]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

In this thread I’m learning I’m a terrible Christian because I believe the Bible is true and I’d be a better one for ignoring the parts that do not conform to society. I know what the Old and New Testament say about homosexual sex.  I know that Jesus said marriage is between and man and a woman.  
 

I get there can be disagreements over interpretations.  I admin that maybe I am wrong about mine.  Maybe Jesus didn’t mean to exclude same sex marriage when he discussed marriage.  Do any of you have the humility to think that just maybe you’re interpretations are wrong?   This question is only for believers.  Doesn’t apply to the atheists and agnostics because as non-believers you don’t have any skin in the game on whether the scriptures are true.  You don’t believe in them.  
 

some of my fellow Christians seem confident homosexual sex isn’t a sin and and same sex marriages are scriptural.  I don’t see given what God’s word says and doesn’t say on these issues where you get that confidence.  If you’re wrong you may be harming others and the Kingdom by not professing truth. 
 

For the record I’m not 100 percent confident on the issue.  I’m not God.  But based upon what scriptures we have, I can’t really take a contrary position.  I think a contrary position is scripturally baseless.  

As a non-regular-church-attending follower of Christ, I'll take a shot at this one.   Your first sentence sure feels like you're trying to claim some personal persecution that I don't think is the point of most of this conversation.  Your next couple of sentences start with "I know"...but based on some posts earlier in this thread, regarding translations in the bible, I don't know how you can so confidently say you "know" what the bible says about homosexuality.

Is homosexuality a sin?  I'll admit that, prior to some of these conversations about translations, I would have confidently said "yes".  Now, I'm not sure.  HOWEVER, I don't spend much time worrying about it, as it isn't on the list of sins that I commit.  I don't say that to mean I'm proud of committing sins.  I'm simply trying to say that there is a long list of sins, and *all* fall short in the attempt to avoid them.  IMO, we should all be focused on the sins we personally commit, and not worry about the sins others commit (assuming they don't include a victim).

It always seems strange to me how society picks a subset of sins to get all 'up in arms' about.  Lust, envy, pride, etc. are all over our entertainment streams (and a huge part of most of our lives), BUT DID YOU KNOW 2 GUYS ARE LIVING TOGETHER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN???!!!!!!

Edited October 6, 2022 by morehornsepower
stupid typo

[Captainant 27405]

It is interesting how when folks talk about their distaste for the modern church, sack uses it as excuse to avoid responding to any of their theological points or scriptural citations. I think it really highlights the disconnect for a clergy member (brother deacon sack) to so closely and clearly conflate the modern church with a relationship with God. 

Because if you only care about YOUR relationship to God and not literally everyone else's, you tend to stop focusing so much of your theology and spiritual energy on others people's private life

[Johnny Sack 8397]

12 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Without wading into trying to convince anyone whether any given interpretation of scripture is correct or not (they ain't gonna happen in this thread) I think the bolded statement is not correct. Atheists and agnostics do have skin in the game simply because Christianity has an immense amount of influence on culture and government at all levels. Not even arguing whether that is a good thing or a bad thing, but surely you agree that any given interpretation does impact us all (at least in this earthly life, if not afterlife)?

They don't believe the scriptures are true.  There is no use arguing which interpretation should be correct.  They don't believe in either one.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

49 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

Good rule of thumb: If it all goes dark and you wake up and see Jimmy Carter, you’re probably right where you want to be. If you see Johnny Sack, Poe and /or Bob Stoops… you might be in the Bad Place. If you see Workswithseed, you should probably quit doing meth.

Seems a little judgmental.  Do you believe Jesus Christ is the son of God, came to earth and died at Calvary for your sins?

[Captainant 27405]

If brother deacon sack adjudicates you to be a heretic and unclean he won't put any more effort in than a form response. Classic and very cool shit from the boards highest ranking church member. You'll definitely be a shining light on the hill using that tack 

[DigglerontheHoof 21044]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

So your belief is that non-believers in Europe, the USA and the rest of the world are better human beings than believers in Christ?

Absolutely. 

[Murfdogg21 4412]

In my view, the over zealous evangelicals are hypocrites to pick and choose which verses to cling to for literal interpretation but not others, and plainly ignore many of the principal teachings of Christ when it comes to loving your neighbors, not judging, focus on helping others before yourself, etc. I concurrently think the other side is wrong to think these evangelicals should throw open their arms to embrace and celebrate what they (the evangelicals) believe to be sinful behavior. Should they celebrate adultery or theft too? There’s a middle ground where you can try to respect everyone, practice charity toward all, and do what you can to improve yourself while living as a good example to others. The world has enough problems without several factions hating others over a religion based on showing love to everyone. But that is just the libertarian in me that would get lightning bolted by the head of the southern baptist convention. 
 

I’m still waiting for Joel Osteen to donate his fortune to a charitable cause to avoid having to cram his golden camel ass through the eye of that needle…

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

1 hour ago, bonnieblue said:

Good rule of thumb: If it all goes dark and you wake up and see Jimmy Carter, you’re probably right where you want to be. If you see Johnny Sack, Poe and /or Bob Stoops… you might be in the Bad Place. If you see Workswithseed, you should probably quit doing meth.

if i die and go to georgia, i'm definitely in the bad place

Edited October 6, 2022 by BehoId, The Underminer!

[F250 28674]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Don’t know and don’t care.  I couldn’t even tell you what the Southern Baptist doctrine is.  I don’t consider myself one.  If you have specifics about the SBC you disagree with, what are they?  I might agree with you.  
 

I like autonomous churches. Christ Is the head of His church.  Not denominations or conventions.  

Well, the biggest issue is the lack of doctrine. Baptist churches have no actual doctrine so things are left up to the influence of various pastors and deacons. The Lord's Supper treated as a memorial and baptism as a symbolic act a a well as baptism. The lack of a consistent soteriology is probably the biggest issue. Congregationalism with a lack of consistent doctrine is a bad combination. The Calvinists make it work because they have a very systematic theology. Baptists are perpetually redesigning the details of their beliefs like leaves blowing in the wind.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

42 minutes ago, Captainant said:

If brother deacon sack adjudicates you to be a heretic and unclean he won't put any more effort in than a form response. Classic and very cool shit from the boards highest ranking church member. You'll definitely be a shining light on the hill using that tack 

I have no interest in debating scripture with people who start from a place where they do not believe any of it. My belief on what the bible says about homosexuality is my good faith belief.  It does not affect you in any way.  I strongly believe gays should be afforded all equal rights under the law, including the right to be married. I have no issue with Title VII being extended to gays and transgenders, despite my belief Congress never intended that result when it passed the law in 1964.  Does not matter to me.  Does not hurt anything.

I wouldn't expect a muslim to have any interest in debating me about the various interpretations of the Quran.  Same with Hindus and The Vedas. I just don't care what nonbelievers think about God's Word. Their views are not relevant to me.  I don't expect my views to be relevant to them.  I don't care if they don't care about my views.  We are coming from completely different places.

This is a thread for Christ followers.  I am more interested in what they have to say.  I have no ill will towards any Christian who believes homosexual sex is not a sin and that the Bible/Jesus approves of gay marriage.  Their views don't impact me.  Maybe they are right.  Maybe I am.  I can only go with what I believe the Bible says.  If I am wrong, at Judgment I will tell my Savior so and do my best to explain I was seeking His will based on the scriptures and my imperfect and human viewpoint. 

I have the humility to know I may be wrong.  Some seem awfully confident in their contrary opinion despite scant or no scriptural evidence to support their boastful confidence. Either way, 1st Corinthians 13:12 says:

For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[Johnny Sack 8397]

23 hours ago, bolverk said:

 

As for a believer in Jesus, I probably side with those who think he was an actual historical figure and that he was a righteous dude, regardless of his divinity, and I try to live my life according to the golden rule.

In the words of C.S. Lewis, Jesus was either a liar, a lunatic, or the Lord. I believe He is exactly who He said He is.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[Celery Man 20881]

28 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

 

I have the humility to know I may be wrong. 

I don’t know you beyond this place and I don’t care about what your response to me here would be as I don’t think it would be informative. But as a question for you to reflect on - do you have any evidence in your life that you are actually capable of rethinking long held beliefs and determining that you have been wrong all along? Can you think of specific examples where this has happened, or is “I am humble and able to accept when I am wrong” simply a thing you believe to be true about yourself?

Edited October 6, 2022 by Celery Man

[Nivek 16843]

16 hours ago, tbone_ said:

I’ve always wondered why the good Christians tolerate the shitty, cruel Christians.

they are like cops

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I don’t know you beyond this place and I don’t care about what your response to me here would be as I don’t think it would be informative. But as a question for you to reflect on - do you have any evidence in your life that you are actually capable of rethinking long held beliefs and determining that you have been wrong all along? Can you think of specific examples where this has happened, or is “I am humble and able to accept when I am wrong” simply a thing you believe to be true about yourself?

Well, prior to law school I used to believe gay marriage should be unlawful.

I also used to believe as a very young Christian who grew up in the Church of Christ that we were the only ones going to heaven.  I no longer believe that and have not worshipped in a Church of Christ regularly (aside from with family when visiting on occasion) in a couple decades.  (My opinion on that and the opinion on most C of C ers changed probably back in the 80s, at least where I worshipped). That belief is something I only believed when I was a child.  There is no support for it in the bible and it was 100% wrong.

My positions on women's proper role in the church has evolved as I have studied the issue. I voted as a deacon to support adding women as deacons at my church. I believe that is absolutely scriptural.  

I am open to changing positions when I see sound and biblical reason to do so.

[texasdago 7552]

1 hour ago, morehornsepower said:

As a non-regular-church-attending follower of Christ, I'll take a shot at this one.   Your first sentence sure feels like you're trying to claim some personal persecution that I don't think is the point of most of this conversation.  Your next couple of sentences start with "I know"...but based on some posts earlier in this thread, regarding translations in the bible, I don't know how you can so confidently say you "know" what the bible says about homosexuality.

Is homosexuality a sin?  I'll admit that, prior to some of these conversations about translations, I would have confidently said "yes".  Now, I'm not sure.  HOWEVER, I don't spend much time worrying about it, as it isn't on the list of sins that I commit.  I don't say that to mean I'm proud of committing sins.  I'm simply trying to say that there is a long list of sins, and *all* fall short in the attempt to avoid them.  IMO, we should all be focused on the sins we personally commit, and not worry about the sins others commit (assuming they don't include a victim).

It always seems strange to me how society picks a subset of sins to get all 'up in arms' about.  Lust, envy, pride, etc. are all over our entertainment streams (and a huge part of most of our lives), BUT DID YOU KNOW 2 GUYS ARE LIVING TOGETHER ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN???!!!!!!

Thank you... this is it... it is the focused obsession with one sin committed by others while glossing over other sins.  It is "ranking" sins... "THIS one is super bad BUT hey the political candidate I really like and support, well, I'm just ignore that he commits a long list of sins on regular basis because, see, being a liar has a better ranking" or when looking at scripture that has a laundry list of sins, some are "SUPER BAD!!!" but the Church whistles past the other ones.

Here's the funny thing... the Bible is not too happy about the rampant pornography problem that exists with males in churches but I bet that's pretty much being glossed over.  Too many people committing it in-house to get to up in arms about it.  

Go back to the verse about the plank in your own eye...

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by texasdago

[Johnny Sack 8397]

14 minutes ago, texasdago said:

Thank you... this is it... it is the focused obsession with one sin committed by others while glossing over other sins.  It is "ranking" sins... "THIS one is super bad BUT hey the political candidate I really like and support, well, I'm just ignore that he commits a long list of sins on regular basis because, see, being a liar has a better ranking" or when looking at scripture that has a laundry list of sins, some are "SUPER BAD!!!" but the Church whistles past the other ones.

Here's the funny thing... the Bible is not too happy about the rampant pornography problem that exists with males in churches but I bet that's pretty much being glossed over.  Too many people committing it in-house to get to up in arms about it.  

Go back to the verse about the plank in your own eye...

 

Sins are equal. We all sin.  Sin is rebellion against God and requires repentance. 

[South Austin 52105]

15 minutes ago, texasdago said:

the Bible is not too happy about the rampant pornography problem

Where does the Bible say anything about pornography, and if it does, how does it define pornography?  Asking for a friend of a friend.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

3 hours ago, Celery Man said:

The thing that you continue to refuse to acknowledge is that people who are gay are born gay, it is a part of who they are and they have no choice in the matter. It is not a new part of society that modern heathens are wanting the gospel to conform to, it is an inconsistency that exists between the central message and the small parts that some interpret as meaning that God created some of us with sin wrapped up as not just an inescapable proclivity but as a fundamental attribute of who we are as humans. I think a cleaner interpretation is that people who have prioritized that part of their scriptural interpretation to turn Christianity into the message of hate that much of society hears are both wrong and the ones responsible for damaging the kingdom and harming others.

Many alcoholics have a genetic predisposition to being drunk all the time.  That doesn’t excuse their sin of drunkenness.  They must repent and not deliberately continue in sin. 
 

Jesus forgave the woman caught in sexual sin.  He also told her to go and sin no more.  

[texasdago 7552]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Sins are equal. We all sin.  Sin is rebellion against God and requires repentance. 

So why do so many in the church lose their mind over certain sins and ignore and gloss over others?  Many focus on the sins that drive seats in butts and tithes and drive "my candidate" into power. 

There's a good chance that church leadership that is seething over certain sins is covering up their own issues...

https://www.cru.org/us/en/communities/ministries/josh-mcdowell-ministry/silent-epidemic-the-churchs-problem-with-porn.html 

and its this type of behavior that kills the church's witness. 

[TriStone 1724]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Many alcoholics have a genetic predisposition to being drunk all the time.  That doesn’t excuse their sin of drunkenness.  They must repent and not deliberately continue in sin. 

So the meauxs have to be celibate?  That doesn't seem practical.

[Captainant 27405]

1 minute ago, texasdago said:

So why do so many in the church lose their mind over certain sins and ignore and gloss over others?  Many focus on the sins that drive seats in butts and tithes and drive "my candidate" into power. 

There's a good chance that church leadership that is seething over certain sins is covering up their own issues...

https://www.cru.org/us/en/communities/ministries/josh-mcdowell-ministry/silent-epidemic-the-churchs-problem-with-porn.html 

and its this type of behavior that kills the church's witness. 

IMO, I think the modern church's fear of homosexuality is to distract from some of their own cultural issues like porn as you mention here, along with the epidemic child sexual abuse that seems to keep happening and getting covered up.

 

But it's still so fucking WILD to see sack comparing and classifying homosexuality alongside alcoholism as some sort of "deliberate continuation of sin"

[Brisketexan 104537]

8 minutes ago, South Austin said:

Where does the Bible say anything about pornography, and if it does, how does it define pornography?  Asking for a friend of a friend.

SAY anything about it?  Shit, it CONTAINS it:

2 “Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother. 3 They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed. 4 The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem.

5 “Oholah engaged in prostitution while she was still mine; and she lusted after her lovers, the Assyrians—warriors 6 clothed in blue, governors and commanders, all of them handsome young men, and mounted horsemen. 7 She gave herself as a prostitute to all the elite of the Assyrians and defiled herself with all the idols of everyone she lusted after. 8 She did not give up the prostitution she began in Egypt, when during her youth men slept with her, caressed her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her.

9 “Therefore I delivered her into the hands of her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted. 10 They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword. She became a byword among women, and punishment was inflicted on her.

11 “Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13 I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way.

14 “But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeans[a] portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea.[b] 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.[c]

 

Man....that's some pretty hot stuff there.  Especially the "they had donkey-dicks and shot giant wads" part of it -- that's not necessary for the overall lesson, that was just embellishment that the author enjoyed.  Song of Songs is some pretty sexy stuff, too.

[South Austin 52105]

I’ll be in my bunk.

[Celery Man 20881]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Many alcoholics have a genetic predisposition to being drunk all the time.  That doesn’t excuse their sin of drunkenness.  They must repent and not deliberately continue in sin. 
 

Jesus forgave the woman caught in sexual sin.  He also told her to go and sin no more.  

I have the ability to not drink. I don’t have the ability to become gay just as a gay person doesn’t have the ability to become straight.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

6 minutes ago, texasdago said:

So why do so many in the church lose their mind over certain sins and ignore and gloss over others?  Many focus on the sins that drive seats in butts and tithes and drive "my candidate" into power. 

There's a good chance that church leadership that is seething over certain sins is covering up their own issues...

https://www.cru.org/us/en/communities/ministries/josh-mcdowell-ministry/silent-epidemic-the-churchs-problem-with-porn.html 

and its this type of behavior that kills the church's witness. 

I have no idea.  I can’t speak for churches I don’t attend.  I can tell you this, I’ve sat in the same pew for 15 years and have never heard one word about homosexuality pro or con.   I have heard porn mentioned.  And many other sins.  People should find better churches if theirs are doing it wrong.  
 

I don’t need my church to discuss homosexuality.  I’d prefer sermons exclusively on sins that I struggle with.  I won’t attend one who sanctions it or any other sin.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

25 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I have the ability to not drink. I don’t have the ability to become gay just as a gay person doesn’t have the ability to become straight.

One has the ability to not have homosexual sex, which is the sin.  
 

Paul was celibate.  Maybe  because he preferred men.  I don’t know. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[Captainant 27405]

Just now, Johnny Sack said:

One had the ability to not have homosexual sex, which is the sin.  
 

paul was celibate.  

lol so you claim to want gays to be able to marry, but you also want to dictate the private life of a married couple? Sounds very Lawrence V Texas of you, my dude

[Foosters 17725]

I have him on ignore, but did Sack just compare homosexuality to alcoholism?

 

[South Austin 52105]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

paul was celibate.  Maybe he preferred men.  I don’t know. 

Paul couldn't get laid in a morgue, even a homosexual one.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

lol so you claim to want gays to be able to marry, but you also want to dictate the private life of a married couple? Sounds very Lawrence V Texas of you, my dude

I was clear.  Gays should have all civil rights under the law.  
 

That is a separate issue from religion.  I can support gays right to a marriage license but not their right to have my church marry them.  Separation of church and state.  
 

My religious beliefs shouldn’t impact the rights of others under the law of the state

Edited October 6, 2022 by Johnny Sack

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1606]

4 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Yes. I’ve been largely driven away from the church by people who think like you, but I am a Christian and God has saved me in this life already.

 

not that it matters in the context of this discussion - non religious people have ample skin in the game when it comes to what a large portion of Christians think God wants them to do.

I'm, admittedly a late addition to this game. I used to "fear" the judeo-christian 'god'

Then I saw kids get taken apart. And many other atrocities.

I'm an NCO, and a soldier. I follow the orders I'm given and direct my Soldiers.

Not at one single point in leading any human have I ever used my position to influence the theological belief of anyone under my command.

[Murfdogg21 4412]

34 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.[c]

 

Man....that's some pretty hot stuff there.  Especially the "they had donkey-dicks and shot giant wads" part of it -- that's not necessary for the overall lesson, that was just embellishment that the author enjoyed.  Song of Songs is some pretty sexy stuff, too.

Army Brat was packing heat!

[Brisketexan 104537]

3 minutes ago, HOOK'EMHOOAH said:

Not at one single point in leading any human have I ever used my position to influence the theological belief of anyone under my command.

Sure you have.  IF (and I use that qualifier) the people observing you, being led by you, etc. know that you are a person of a particular faith, then you have certainly influenced their theology by their EXAMPLE.

That's actually a lot of what we're talking about in this thread: people observe what loud, vocal "Christians" are saying and doing.  Those observers have theology that is being influenced by what they see.  When they see cruelty committed In the Name of the Lord, their theology turns away from Christianity.  Likewise, when the observers see people walking the Way, doing their best to live in humility and kindness, and actively practicing love and kindness for their fellow human, that also influences the theology of the observer.

The most powerful evangelism isn't preaching, or talking, or ordering and commanding.  The most powerful evangelism is the evangelism of example.  I suspect that you are a good man, who has the interest of those he commands in mind.  Those you command see that, and respond accordingly.  If your faith is known, then your actions are seen as a positive reflection of that faith.