Kenosha shooting

[UT_OB1 2,224]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

It took me a few watches to figure out what was going on in that video (distance and shaky phone).

So, as best as I can tell, there was initially a struggle with him immediately behind the car that end up with him on the ground next to the rear passenger side tire. Difficult to see, but he somehow gets up and starts to walk to the front of the car while being followed by the cops. The first video we saw last night then shows a clearer view and angle of him walking around the car to the drivers side door and attempted murder.

9 shots at that angle and it is amazing they didn’t hit anyone in the yard in front of the car

[Hagbard Celine 10,909]

In a Facebook video posted around noon Monday, Blake's father said Blake was out of surgery and in stable condition.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2020/08/24/wisconsin-police-shooting-black-man-jacob-blake-national-guard-way-kenosha-7-shots-in-the-back/3430507001/

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,352]

2 hours ago, 'stache said:

I'll just never understand the importance these guys see in keeping anyone from leaving. Unless they are fucking serial killers or you're pursuing them for some extraordinarily violent crime, do what you can to stop them, but if they get away it's not like it's hard to find people these days. That's my response to the "comply" crowd. Sometimes people will not comply for a variety of reasons, some of which are probably not justified, but not worthy of a fucking immediate death sentence with nine bullets in the back. I just don't fucking get this shit. I mean, I understand why they act like this and how we got here, but it shouldn't fucking be this way.

Apparently they were trying to protect his kids.

[TwiceHorn 31,529]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

A lot of us are vicarious hard asses. Don't start no shit won't be no shit. We're that way about war, too, until we take a look at the cost to a soldier. 

Now we're seeing actual videos of what happens, and, surprise!, it's nothing like what we see on the TV. The Floyd murder was mortifying to anyone with a shred of humanity. We also like good guy-bad guy narratives. This poor fellow maybe had a warrant out. So? Floyd may have just committed a theft crime. So?

It doesn't matter if Floyd had just raped and murdered the shop owner; the police don't get to summarily execute anybody. Same with this guy. I don't have to know every detail or actually any detail of their pasts to see police murder of a citizen.

I don't want to get all esoteric, but our mythologies are very fucked up. Conflicts are rarely good versus evil where the best and most just solution is killing the bad guy. That's the story we tell ourselves over and over again. It does not serve us well in life.

Pretty astute observation.  Even without the fear narrative we have been stoked with forever, there's a natural tendency for people to put white hats and black hats on people.  Trial lawyers know this and even in the most quotidian or tedious civil case (e.g. patent infringement) try to put the white hat on their client and the black one on the opponent.

I suppose that even without the racially tinged fear narrative, it's easy for people to want to put the white hat on the guy in uniform who's been charged with protecting us.  Add in the fear and it's that much stronger. It has taken video evidence to start to disabuse us of our long-running Lone Ranger episode.

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Guest Lobo]

I assume they were all the back seat?  I'm not legal ballistics expert but I am paid to ask questions...wouldn't firing off rounds #2-#9 into his back/door-dashboard area of the car really heighten the risk for around to bounce off something metal and head into the kids' bodies which were a matter of inches away?  I mean, I guess...the risk for that is small when you're firing directly into the person's back flush with their skin...but maybe consider 9 rounds...1 could conceivably bounce into one of the young kids.  Maybe.  'Cause Kenosha Physics.  

[bad_teammate 13,224]

12 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I assume they were all the back seat?  I'm not legal ballistics expert but I am paid to ask questions...wouldn't firing off rounds #2-#9 into his back/door-dashboard area of the car really heighten the risk for around to bounce off something metal and head into the kids' bodies which were a matter of inches away?  I mean, I guess...the risk for that is small when you're firing directly into the person's back flush with their skin...but maybe consider 9 rounds...1 could conceivably bounce into one of the young kids.  Maybe.  'Cause Kenosha Physics.  

"I am going to make it home to my family!"

[Jiggy-Z 3,435]

18 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I assume they were all the back seat?  I'm not legal ballistics expert but I am paid to ask questions...wouldn't firing off rounds #2-#9 into his back/door-dashboard area of the car really heighten the risk for around to bounce off something metal and head into the kids' bodies which were a matter of inches away?  I mean, I guess...the risk for that is small when you're firing directly into the person's back flush with their skin...but maybe consider 9 rounds...1 could conceivably bounce into one of the young kids.  Maybe.  'Cause Kenosha Physics.  

Perhaps also, it was the rich Corinthian leather.

[TwiceHorn 31,529]

Ballistics are weird, so anything can happen, but, most ricochets occur down range when the velocity of the projectile has fallen off and it hits something very unyielding, e.g. concrete, a big rock, a big hunk of metal.  A lot depends on the frangibility of the bullet, too.  But that close to the muzzle (pretty high velocity) and in a car, I think there's relatively little chance for a ricochet because there isn't all that much that's unyielding in a car interior and dashboard.  The engine block would probably be a good candidate to cause a ricochet, but there's a lot of stuff to "baffle" it in the engine compartment.

[Pato del Muerto 52,571]

1 minute ago, Jiggy-Z said:

Perhaps also, it was the rich Corinthian leather.

Nah, wasn’t a Cordova. 

[Jiggy-Z 3,435]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

Nah, wasn’t a Cordova. 

Nice catch, but just because they are not advertising it, doesn't mean they don't use it.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10,352]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

I assume they were all the back seat?  I'm not legal ballistics expert but I am paid to ask questions...wouldn't firing off rounds #2-#9 into his back/door-dashboard area of the car really heighten the risk for around to bounce off something metal and head into the kids' bodies which were a matter of inches away?  I mean, I guess...the risk for that is small when you're firing directly into the person's back flush with their skin...but maybe consider 9 rounds...1 could conceivably bounce into one of the young kids.  Maybe.  'Cause Kenosha Physics.  

Totally, I just was trying to find anything that might explain some of their actions.  Nothing we see from this short video tells me the guy was an immediate threat to "them" but it adds more to what they were thinking of. Also, the guy filming the incident says the cops were yelling at him to "Drop the knife, drop the knife". **Note: filmer did not see the knife though.

So guy who had wrestled with and been tased and wasn't being compliant was getting into a vehicle with kids with a knife. That's my take on the officers thoughts.  I didn't see anything about the officer actions (vs like George Floyd or other video) that suggested the cop(s) was out to get they guy --- until the one just unloaded his gun.   I just can't reconcile how the hell if got to that so quickly.   As to tackling the guy etc, that's not a choice if they think he's got a knife. Put away gun and Tase him again?? 

 

[BradInATX 9,208]

8 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Nah that won’t work. That will make things worse. Charge him with murder, and then actually convict him. You’d think once that happens enough it’ll slow way down.  

Yeah, but all of that is probably not going to happen. The people can't make 12 bumpkins from rural Wisconsin vote to convict a murderer. But the people can create civil unrest.

[Brothahorn 10,087]

Can’t get over the fact that 4 cops vs 1 person leads to a shooting. If they had the man on the ground, let him get up, WALK away and then decided to shoot, that should be some type of murder/manslaughter. The shooter needs jail time and the other three need to be banned from any type of law, security, school guard crossing work for life. You can’t trust them to stand up, when needed. Part of me wishes they were never allowed to have a gun for anything.

About 20 years ago, I got pulled over by DPD (635&Abrams) for what was probably a bullshit traffic stop. During traffic stop, it was decided that I fit the description of a recent bank robbery suspect. Being a recent college grad, I was full of piss and vinegar. So, of course I was full of fuck you's, hell no's and such. That is until they pulled their guns and back up arrived. At that point, my home training kicked in. I shut the fuck up and complied. The goal at the point to was living to prove my innocence, aka fight another day.

I do wonder in a case like this and the Austin guy, what they are thinking? Survival mode should be automatic at the point where you have guns pointing at you. It’s not a guarantee, see the guy in Arizona, but your odds increase significantly. Maybe they had some other shit going on, to the point where jail was not an option i.e., warrants.

Also the just let them go approach doesn't always work. It's real life, the cops hardly ever get their man. The cops who couldn't handle a simple traffic stop, are the same ones trying to find a whore in a whorehouse.

Another life lost to bullshit.

 

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Nah that won’t work. That will make things worse. Charge him with murder, and then actually convict him. You’d think once that happens enough it’ll slow way down.  

Lol I mean, you do realize that’s why there will be riots, right? Because that absolutely will not happen. There will be no real justice in this case, there will be riots in this city for a while (and maybe across the country) and the narrative will shift for some people that choose to believe what they want to believe. This will happen for the rest of our lives. That whole cycle. 

[SDG 3,319]

28 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Totally, I just was trying to find anything that might explain some of their actions.  Nothing we see from this short video tells me the guy was an immediate threat to "them" but it adds more to what they were thinking of. Also, the guy filming the incident says the cops were yelling at him to "Drop the knife, drop the knife". **Note: filmer did not see the knife though.

So guy who had wrestled with and been tased and wasn't being compliant was getting into a vehicle with kids with a knife. That's my take on the officers thoughts.  I didn't see anything about the officer actions (vs like George Floyd or other video) that suggested the cop(s) was out to get they guy --- until the one just unloaded his gun.   I just can't reconcile how the hell if got to that so quickly.   As to tackling the guy etc, that's not a choice if they think he's got a knife. Put away gun and Tase him again?? 

 

They had already wrestled with him and he got away.  The question I have is did or didn't they already try to taze him?  

see the video in 152.  

[Nivek 16,979]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Nah that won’t work. That will make things worse. Charge him with murder, and then actually convict him. You’d think once that happens enough it’ll slow way down.  

Tuttles would have stated otherwise, but he's dead.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

This guy and Floyd’s murderer will be in jail for decades. As will the Cletii. 

I feel like they’ll find a way to justify this one and the guy will get off with just getting fired, but I hope you’re right. I don’t want to see the riots either, but they’ll happen until pig is arrested.

[Buzzrock 14,936]

What about tranquilizer darts? I’m serious. Tasers seem pretty effective until they aren’t, and once the current stops flowing the device stops working. I’m guessing it’s illegal to involuntarily sedate someone, but it seems like it might be a better option than a taser (or a bullet). 

[AUS-97HORN 11,814]

3 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

What about tranquilizer darts? I’m serious. Tasers seem pretty effective until they aren’t, and once the current stops flowing the device stops working. I’m guessing it’s illegal to involuntarily sedate someone, but it seems like it might be a better option than a taser (or a bullet). 

first time a perp ends up with a tranc in the eye and their police dept gets sued to bolivia will be the last time you hear about that idea....

[Buzzrock 14,936]

I’m an idea man. I didn’t say it was a good one. But I’ve seen a lot of movies where the orderlies subdue a crazy person while someone injects said crazy person with...something. And within a few seconds that person is immobile. 

I mean they had him on the ground. Why not stick him then?

[Deej 76,897]

The lesson here is never get in between two women arguing. 

[BradInATX 9,208]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Of course it will just like it did (charges) in Minnesota. We convicted a gal in Dallas of a much lesser crime than was perpetrated on either Floyd or Blake. The cops lives are over. They’re going to jail. 

And Kenosha is to Chicago what McKinney or Denton is to Dallas  The juries will be neither be bumpkins nor conservative. 

"Of course it will" projects a lot of confidence that citizen juries will serve justice to murdering police officers when the overwhelming majority of cases demonstrates that they rarely do.

[TwiceHorn 31,529]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Of course it will just like it did (charges) in Minnesota. We convicted a gal in Dallas of a much lesser crime than was perpetrated on either Floyd or Blake. The cops lives are over. They’re going to jail. 

And Kenosha is to Chicago what McKinney or Denton is to Dallas  The juries will be neither be bumpkins nor conservative. 

Juries in McKinney and Denton are bumpkins and conservative.  It's amusing as hell to see people from the lower suburbs, Frisco and Plano, head up to their county courthouses and see all the jurors in overalls and similar.  It may be shifting a bit by now toward the suburban Californios and other emigres, but the clerks up there manage to get a good cross-section of the inhabitants of those counties.

I don't know what that means for Kenosha juries, but you can have some pretty serious demographic shifts in under 100 miles.

[Hagbard Celine 10,909]

Collin & Denton counties: conservative yes, bumpkins no, overalls no.  You forgot sheeple.  Sheeple, yes, very high on the sheeple count.  Idiocrat % is very, very high as well.

[BradInATX 9,208]

Well, times are changing with Guyger in Texas, and then rural Georgia. You think Floyd’s killer and partners are walking?  You think this guy and his compadres will walk?  In Minneapolis and metro Chicagoland after the videos each have been seen hundreds of times by each jury member?  I don’t think so, and it doesn’t require false confidence to get there. 
I abhor the idea of ruining someone’s life to try and teach a lesson. But unlike with Guyger, I think you had true evil in both cases up north, and so following through and actually killing two birds with one stone (life jail sentence, ridding us of evil and what should be a real deterrent) should be a lot more effective than riots that will just piss everyone off and serve to deepen the polarization. 

Let's hope you're right. I guess I have less faith in a jury of 12 than you do.

[TwiceHorn 31,529]

22 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Collin & Denton counties: conservative yes, bumpkins no, overalls no.  You forgot sheeple.  Sheeple, yes, very high on the sheeple count.  Idiocrat % is very, very high as well.

Potatoe/potato.  I was borrowing Rex's terminology.

And you are speaking of the people in Plano/Allen, and Lewisville/Frisco.  But theres a sizable chunk of both counties that are pretty serious country fucks.  The people in the burbs may actually be worse, come to think of it.

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,529]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Juries of 12 all over the country hate this police bullshit. It’s gotten beyond tiresome for white people largely unaffected by police BS. I don’t really care about the sociodemographic situations of the juries; I think these fuckers are going to fry.  

I was fairly certain of the outcome in the Guyger case, with my confidence bolstered by the outcome of the Balch Springs case some months before.  But Dallas has shifted pretty red.  Tarrant, Collin, and Denton counties are still mighty blue, with all that entails.

[TornACL 7,722]

1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

What about tranquilizer darts? I’m serious. Tasers seem pretty effective until they aren’t, and once the current stops flowing the device stops working. I’m guessing it’s illegal to involuntarily sedate someone, but it seems like it might be a better option than a taser (or a bullet). 

It's not the tools that are the problem, it's the people wielding them. Tazers were abused, rubber bullets are now abused (aiming at people's fucking faces) 

You could give them a feather duster and they'd find a way to start anally raping family dogs with them. 

The system of policing is corrupt, self serving, and broken.

[Tom 2,959]

2 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Of course it will just like it did (charges) in Minnesota. We convicted a gal in Dallas of a much lesser crime than was perpetrated on either Floyd or Blake. The cops lives are over. They’re going to jail. 

And Kenosha is to Chicago what McKinney or Denton is to Dallas  The juries will be neither be bumpkins nor conservative. 

 

A much lesser crime?  She walked into a stranger's house and murdered him in his own home.  How is that "a lesser crime"?  She only got 10 years for murdering somebody and will be released likely before she serves half of it.

 

 

 

[immortal13 4,059]

5 hours ago, SDG said:

I still think these officers should have tried more non-lethal options (bad training and I dgaf attitudes are rampant) but here’s a another angle of what led up o the shooting that I haven’t seen posted on this thread.   

 

 

Good lord there were little kids everywhere. What kind of dumb motherfucker starts spraying bullets all over an area full of kids? Fuck these guys. They were never qualified to be more than garbage men, and that's an insult to garbage men. 

[Grade of D as in David 13,253]

3 hours ago, Lobo said:

I assume they were all the back seat?  I'm not legal ballistics expert but I am paid to ask questions...wouldn't firing off rounds #2-#9 into his back/door-dashboard area of the car really heighten the risk for around to bounce off something metal and head into the kids' bodies which were a matter of inches away?  I mean, I guess...the risk for that is small when you're firing directly into the person's back flush with their skin...but maybe consider 9 rounds...1 could conceivably bounce into one of the young kids.  Maybe.  'Cause Kenosha Physics.  

In the span of 7 posts you've asked them to consider the collateral damage of blasting 9 rounds into a car and asked them to read a book.

You know we're talking about cops right?

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, I should have changed it to burn the books, shoot the dark people, arrest the kids, read the riot act, and spin the whole thing up into an offshoot of Milwaukee Summerfest (no pun intended).   

Edited August 25, 2020 by Lobo

[Steel Shank 9,430]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

"I am going to make it home to my family cheese!"

You need to realize where we are here.

[aggie08 21,525]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

I’m an idea man. I didn’t say it was a good one. But I’ve seen a lot of movies where the orderlies subdue a crazy person while someone injects said crazy person with...something. And within a few seconds that person is immobile. 

I mean they had him on the ground. Why not stick him then?

So you're asking police officers to be experts in dosing, toxicology, allergic reactions, and overdose procedures?

[Red Six 131]

So you're asking police officers to be experts in dosing, toxicology, allergic reactions, and overdose procedures?

You ever seen a DWI trial?

[bad_teammate 13,224]

30 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

So you're asking police officers to be experts in dosing, toxicology, allergic reactions, and overdose procedures?

That is unreasonable, you're right.

Perhaps the solution is to have people who can handle these things responding to these situations instead of police whose move list is:
- Yell
- Demand Compliance
- Murder

[52-80 19,226]

3 hours ago, Brothahorn said:

Can’t get over the fact that 4 cops vs 1 person leads to a shooting. If they had the man on the ground, let him get up, WALK away and then decided to shoot, that should be some type of murder/manslaughter. The shooter needs jail time and the other three need to be banned from any type of law, security, school guard crossing work for life. You can’t trust them to stand up, when needed. Part of me wishes they were never allowed to have a gun for anything.

About 20 years ago, I got pulled over by DPD (635&Abrams) for what was probably a bullshit traffic stop. During traffic stop, it was decided that I fit the description of a recent bank robbery suspect. Being a recent college grad, I was full of piss and vinegar. So, of course I was full of fuck you's, hell no's and such. That is until they pulled their guns and back up arrived. At that point, my home training kicked in. I shut the fuck up and complied. The goal at the point to was living to prove my innocence, aka fight another day.

I do wonder in a case like this and the Austin guy, what they are thinking? Survival mode should be automatic at the point where you have guns pointing at you. It’s not a guarantee, see the guy in Arizona, but your odds increase significantly. Maybe they had some other shit going on, to the point where jail was not an option i.e., warrants.

Also the just let them go approach doesn't always work. It's real life, the cops hardly ever get their man. The cops who couldn't handle a simple traffic stop, are the same ones trying to find a whore in a whorehouse.

Another life lost to bullshit.

 

First question, they're not thinking of anything.  If these people were reasonable, they wouldn't be wrassling with armed authorities.  If they had an ounce of sense and survival, most would still be alive.

 

Also, the shooter is exactly like you described.  Got embarrassed from the scrap.  Lost his cool.  Zero empathy.  Gave no leash.  Turned situation into narrow wire -- you breathe wrong and I'll punish you type of scenario.

 

Basically you take 2 hard-headed idiots, add a badge, and a gun, put it in a blender, and you get a disaster.

 

 

[freyguy 4,284]

48 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

So you're asking police officers to be experts in dosing, toxicology, allergic reactions, and overdose procedures?

Elijah McClain...

[freyguy 4,284]

50 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

So you're asking police officers to be experts in dosing, toxicology, allergic reactions, and overdose procedures?

Elijah McClain...

Edited August 25, 2020 by freyguy
it does bear repeating....

[dcar00 14,344]

Do we know for sure there is no weapon in the car yet?   they ID'd the guy right?  anything in his history that would make them think he has a weapon in his car?

Also, I don't understand the need for people to move closer to cops when they are engaged with someone.   I would be backing people away. 

IMO a chokehold should be allowed to subdue a non compliant person if necessary.  once handcuffed though anything to head or neck should be off limits.

I do think we should have on going education in the schools on how you interface with police.  I'm not saying its the answer but drill it into kids heads at an early age and I think some of this stuff could possibly be avoided.  the goal is everyone gets home or to jail safe.

[BradInATX 9,208]

48 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

That is unreasonable, you're right.Page 5 of 5  

Perhaps the solution is to have people who can handle these things responding to these situations instead of police whose move list is:
- Yell
- Demand Compliance
- Murder

Even more impressive when they manage to do all three of those at the exact same time.

[Grade of D as in David 13,253]

9 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Do we know for sure there is no weapon in the car yet?   they ID'd the guy right?  anything in his history that would make them think he has a weapon in his car?

Also, I don't understand the need for people to move closer to cops when they are engaged with someone.   I would be backing people away. 

IMO a chokehold should be allowed to subdue a non compliant person if necessary.  once handcuffed though anything to head or neck should be off limits.

I do think we should have on going education in the schools on how you interface with police.  I'm not saying its the answer but drill it into kids heads at an early age and I think some of this stuff could possibly be avoided.  the goal is everyone gets home or to jail safe.

Yeah much easier to teach 80 million kids to basically not call the cops than the 700,000 full time law enforcement officers to not kill it's citizenry.

[Ignatius 4,018]

4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Of course it will just like it did (charges) in Minnesota. We convicted a gal in Dallas of a much lesser crime than was perpetrated on either Floyd or Blake. The cops lives are over. They’re going to jail. 

And Kenosha is to Chicago what McKinney or Denton is to Dallas  The juries will be neither be bumpkins nor conservative. 

Lol how was that a lesser crime? She fucking walked into someone else’s apartment and shot them to death while they were on their couch eating ice cream....

[Buzzrock 14,936]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

So you're asking police officers to be experts in dosing, toxicology, allergic reactions, and overdose procedures?

Can’t be worse than giving them guns. 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,119]

4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Where do I start with this post. Tranquilizers don’t stop people in their tracks. Tasers are much more effective. If you guess it’s illegal for a cop to sedate you, what about killing you?  Is that less an infringement on your rights than sedating?  What about tasing you till you shit yourself?

How about this?

[MissingInAction 25,172]

37 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

 

I do think we should have on going education in the schools on how you interface with police.  I'm not saying its the answer but drill it into kids heads at an early age and I think some of this stuff could possibly be avoided.  the goal is everyone gets home or to jail safe.

Indoctrination to an authoritarian rule. 

Merica!

[mulletpelini 5,215]

On 8/23/2020 at 8:42 PM, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think the protests, or riots, are going to affect the police themselves.

I think it might effect newbs who are seeing this first hand and might be second guessing their decisions to pursue the PD as a career, along with everyone now calling them mudering pigs.  Those that decide to go another route are unfortunately the ones you'd want to keep on, as they obviously have a conscience. 

10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

He tried to separate two women that were fighting.

Pussy still undefeated.

15 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

Lol how was that a lesser crime? She fucking walked into someone else’s apartment and shot them to death while they were on their couch eating ice cream....

I swear you posted that on the very last page.

Someone very early (Huck?) called it.....everything cascaded into an unstoppable tragedy because the first steps weren't maximized.  I do have an issue with letting this guy get in his car and drive off though and surprised others don't have issues with that.  Police kill plenty of innocent people with their vehicles too.

[atomheartbevo 89,777]

52 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Do we know for sure there is no weapon in the car yet?   they ID'd the guy right?  anything in his history that would make them think he has a weapon in his car?

They let him slowly walk/stumble around his van, while two followed him and the other one went around the rear.

If they had any thought at all that there was a gun in the van, he would not have made it off of the fucking sidewalk, let alone stroll around his van to get in the driver's seat.

 

[atomheartbevo 89,777]

58 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

I do think we should have on going education in the schools on how you interface with police.  I'm not saying its the answer but drill it into kids heads at an early age and I think some of this stuff could possibly be avoided.  the goal is everyone gets home or to jail safe.

Two things:  One, you're teaching kids to be subservient to authority, and arguably, our society is where it's at and these cops do this stuff, because we have been subservient to authority, we put way too many cops on pedestals, and we have given them way too much slack and power over the decades.  Remember, we pay their fucking salaries, we pay their fucking pensions, we let them moonlight with their uniforms and even cars, etc.

And we've created a situation where, when cops fuck up, it's ultimately the taxpayers who are making the hefty payments to families, not the cops, not the cops' unions.  And speaking of unions, no matter how much a cop fucks up, the union goes balls-to-the-wall on defending them, because the union won't be punished for defending a scumbag, and the union gets to keep bringing in the union dues, because every cop, dirty or not, knows the union has their back.

Two:  Plenty of black families do teach their kids what to do when dealing with the police.  It's a very sad fact.  Hell, our neighbors have done it with their kids, and we live in a very nice neighborhood, and seeing a police car in the area is extremely rare.  But, as the wife said, there's a shitload of Karens in the neighborhood, and pre-covid, their kids were spending plenty of time at their friends' houses in the neighborhood.   I can't really wrap my head around having to have that conversation with a 6th-grader.

[dcar00 14,344]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

They let him slowly walk/stumble around his van, while two followed him and the other one went around the rear.

If they had any thought at all that there was a gun in the van, he would not have made it off of the fucking sidewalk, let alone stroll around his van to get in the driver's seat.

 

you would think.  I'm just asking if it was confirmed there was no weapon in the car and no reason to believe there might be one.