Kenosha shooting

[Brisketexan 105213]

Just now, dcar00 said:

regardless of color of skin, the officers were already engaged with him, tried to taser him, it appears he has a weapon already, and then it looks like he might be going for another one.  audio would be interesting.

Well, we're obviously getting to making the point that as a general rule, an armed white dude is given more latitude than an armed black dude.  There are a crapload of accounts and videos of just that --  cops doing all they can to avoid using force against an armed, and even belligerent and aggressive, white dude.

You can make a case for any circumstance of "he had a weapon and therefore was a threat, and therefore we were justified in taking him down" in every case where a person is armed....but we all know that standard is used very generously when a black dude is involved, and with much greater restraint when a white dude is involved.

[Brisketexan 105213]

6 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Blanket statements of “defund” with zero context or direction is pandering. 

Agree!  The nice thing is, that's not what the "defund" movement has done!  They've offered a crapload of detailed proposals that involve re-purposing police funds to addressing issues that are source/bases for crime, to mechanisms for addressing mental health matters, and the like.  It's all out there, if you'd bother to listen or read about it.

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, we're obviously getting to making the point that as a general rule, an armed white dude is given more latitude than an armed black dude.  There are a crapload of accounts and videos of just that --  cops doing all they can to avoid using force against an armed, and even belligerent and aggressive, white dude.

You can make a case for any circumstance of "he had a weapon and therefore was a threat, and therefore we were justified in taking him down" in every case where a person is armed....but we all know that standard is used very generously when a black dude is involved, and with much greater restraint when a white dude is involved.

Can you please link some instances where a white suspect assaults a police officer, fights off a taser while brandishing a knife (allegedly) that did not get shot?

[Hagbard Celine 10907]

1 hour ago, immortal13 said:

This is where I'm at. They had tried to taze him twice and if he was armed with a knife, he really backed the cops into a corner and limited their options

it's like he cast a dungeons & dragons spell..... "Hold Kenosha Cops Motionless while walking away"

[hornmpa96 2620]

The one lesson I've learned during this pandemic is that tasers seem worthless. I still don't understand why 3 trained police officers can't bring down one man before he gets to his car. Are they not allowed to carry batons?

It's obvious to me that the big disconnect in our society is when police should utilize lethal force. In this case I'm not certain they tried all non-lethal avenues before going to their guns.

[Brisketexan 105213]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

And local governments all but endorsing the riot behavior.

How do you feel about the local PDs who unilaterally decided -- that is, they weren't ordered by the local gov't leadership -- to "disengage, and let shit happen?"  Because numerous PDs have said they are doing just that, and several have ALSO effectively stated that "maybe if the people see what it's like without police protection, they'll appreciate us more."  Funny that you give a pass to PDs that are actually letting horrific shit happen while they stand by and watch in order to make their political point.

 

[dcar00 14330]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, we're obviously getting to making the point that as a general rule, an armed white dude is given more latitude than an armed black dude.  There are a crapload of accounts and videos of just that --  cops doing all they can to avoid using force against an armed, and even belligerent and aggressive, white dude.

You can make a case for any circumstance of "he had a weapon and therefore was a threat, and therefore we were justified in taking him down" in every case where a person is armed....but we all know that standard is used very generously when a black dude is involved, and with much greater restraint when a white dude is involved.

what data supports it being a general rule...

[Hagbard Celine 10907]

4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Can you please link some instances where a white suspect assaults a police officer, fights off a taser while brandishing a knife (allegedly) that did not get shot?

Dude, given that you can't prove a negative, you've bent spacetime, and asked for the proof of a negative negative.

That's some intellectual craftsmanship of the highest order.  Well done.

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

How do you feel about the local PDs who unilaterally decided -- that is, they weren't ordered by the local gov't leadership -- to "disengage, and let shit happen?"  Because numerous PDs have said they are doing just that, and several have ALSO effectively stated that "maybe if the people see what it's like without police protection, they'll appreciate us more."  Funny that you give a pass to PDs that are actually letting horrific shit happen while they stand by and watch in order to make their political point.

 

Like the Travis county plan?  Or the Seattle plan?  Those drawn up in about a week and attempted to be implemented with zero vote or input of the citizens who will be directly effected by these policies?  
 

The ones clearly backed by sound research such as send civilians to domestic disturbances and mental health checks?  Those are always non-violent...yeah. Color me unimpressed. 

[Brisketexan 105213]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Can you please link some instances where a white suspect assaults a police officer, fights off a taser while brandishing a knife (allegedly) that did not get shot?

I can show you videos of a black guy peacefully walking down the street with an AR being confronted by the police and ordered to get on the ground.....while white militia member types can do the same with no fear at all.  You want that one?  I'm a bit tied up at the moment.  But google is your friend.

[Zepol87 9189]

5 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

it's like he cast a dungeons & dragons spell..... "Hold Kenosha Cops Motionless while walking away"

They probably shot each other with the tasers

Edited August 28, 2020 by Zepol87

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

Just now, Hagbard Celine said:

Dude, given that you can't prove a negative, you've bent spacetime, and asked for the proof of a negative negative.

That's some intellectual craftsmanship of the highest order.  Well done.

As opposed to making bold accusations and saying they are true because there is no way to prove it???

[Brisketexan 105213]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

what data supports it being a general rule...

Well, being that PDs have resisted any national reporting of use of force for years....it does make quantification kinda tough.  But google is your friend.  There's a crapton of instances out there.

[dcar00 14330]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

How do you feel about the local PDs who unilaterally decided -- that is, they weren't ordered by the local gov't leadership -- to "disengage, and let shit happen?"  Because numerous PDs have said they are doing just that, and several have ALSO effectively stated that "maybe if the people see what it's like without police protection, they'll appreciate us more."  Funny that you give a pass to PDs that are actually letting horrific shit happen while they stand by and watch in order to make their political point.

 

the upside is the speed traps have gone way down.  what cop would want to pull over a speeder these days?  probably going to start asking the driver to exit the vehicle first. especially if the cop doesn't have a gun.

The mayors and governors are letting horrific shit happen.

[Hagbard Celine 10907]

3 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

The one lesson I've learned during this pandemic is that tasers seem worthless. I still don't understand why 3 trained police officers can't bring down one man before he gets to his car. Are they not allowed to carry batons?

It's obvious to me that the big disconnect in our society is when police should utilize lethal force. In this case I'm not certain they tried all non-lethal avenues before going to their guns.

The police have become militarized heroes, but only get 1/100th of the education and training the military provides.

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

I can show you videos of a black guy peacefully walking down the street with an AR being confronted by the police and ordered to get on the ground.....while white militia member types can do the same with no fear at all.  You want that one?  I'm a bit tied up at the moment.  But google is your friend.

Lots of misdirection to simply answer 

”No, I can’t. “

[dcar00 14330]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, being that PDs have resisted any national reporting of use of force for years....it does make quantification kinda tough.  But google is your friend.  There's a crapton of instances out there.

so thats a no on the data supporting your general rule.  

[hornmpa96 2620]

Just now, Hagbard Celine said:

The police have become militarized heroes, but only get 1/100th of the education and training the military provides.

and their rules of engagement are less specific

[Brisketexan 105213]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Like the Travis county plan?  Or the Seattle plan?  Those drawn up in about a week and attempted to be implemented with zero vote or input of the citizens who will be directly effected by these policies?  
 

The ones clearly backed by sound research such as send civilians to domestic disturbances and mental health checks?  Those are always non-violent...yeah. Color me unimpressed. 

Yeah.....I like your plan better: as a reward for repeated and shameless violence against citizens, we have no choice but to increase funding for cops.  That seems sound.  In no other world is an entity that has demonstrated repeated abuse told by "fiscal conservatives" that well, it seems that you need more funding....but cops, that's what they get.  Fucking amazing.  Shit, it's a miracle they haven't started beating and shooting everyone -- they could probably get their budgets doubled.

[Brisketexan 105213]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Lots of misdirection to simply answer 

”No, I can’t. “

YEah, I'm fucking busy, asshole.  Google.

[dcar00 14330]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I can show you videos of a black guy peacefully walking down the street with an AR being confronted by the police and ordered to get on the ground.....while white militia member types can do the same with no fear at all.  You want that one?  I'm a bit tied up at the moment.  But google is your friend.

at stone mountain didn't black AR guys show up and no one did anything...of course until the black AR guys shot each other.

[Brisketexan 105213]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

so thats a no on the data supporting your general rule.  

Of course.  There's little specific/detailed "data" out there at all on police use of force.  Question for you: who has led the charge against any such data compilation for years?

Edited August 28, 2020 by Brisketexan

[dcar00 14330]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

YEah, I'm fucking busy, asshole.  Google.

no you aren't you are on surly 23 hours a day.  I cite this thread as example #1 your honor.  

p.s. giving you the hour for eating, shitting and monkey spanking.

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

8 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Dude, given that you can't prove a negative, you've bent spacetime, and asked for the proof of a negative negative.

That's some intellectual craftsmanship of the highest order.  Well done.

He is the one making the accusations. The burden of proof is on him. 

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah.....I like your plan better: as a reward for repeated and shameless violence against citizens, we have no choice but to increase funding for cops.  That seems sound.  In no other world is an entity that has demonstrated repeated abuse told by "fiscal conservatives" that well, it seems that you need more funding....but cops, that's what they get.  Fucking amazing.  Shit, it's a miracle they haven't started beating and shooting everyone -- they could probably get their budgets doubled.

Not what I said at all but keep up your hysteria. 
 

Your ability to argue against things not said by many posters is quite impressive. If your arguments are so strong why do you constantly lie/misquote/ or add your own perceived spin to prove your points? Just part of the job?

Edited August 28, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[fattyflattie 4638]

9 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

at stone mountain didn't black AR guys show up and no one did anything...of course until the black AR guys shot each other.

Also during the 2016 BLM march in Dallas where Army guy killed all those cops.  I specifically remember because the dude handled it great. Found a cop, gave him his name and his rifle, and gtfo of dodge. 

[workswithseed 2109]

41 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I have always hated the "why didn't you shoot him in the leg!?" response to police shootings.  A shooting of a person is either justified or not, and if it is, you shoot them, period.  BUT.....in this case, if the fear was him taking off in the car, the cops are literally standing next to the tires.  Shoot the tires instead of the person.  He won't go far, or fast.  In other words, there should be some ways that cops run through a list of all non-lethal alternatives before shooting at a person.

With 3 kids inside? That just outcome seems also bad especially since how blazzen he was getting away. You just don't know.

[Hagbard Celine 10907]

11 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

As opposed to making bold accusations and saying they are true because there is no way to prove it???

Here's another example of this behavior i'm trying to find a name for.  "Rationale Projection" is the closest thing I have so far.  Again, when someone does something to you, and then accuses you of doing what they just did to you, while implying that they didn't do to you what they just did, with no evidence whatsoever that you did what they falsely accused you of doing.

There has to be a name for this.

[Hagbard Celine 10907]

13 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Lots of misdirection to simply answer 

”No, I can’t. “

Brisket specifically identified that which he suggests you find for yourself.  You asked for the examples, so it is incumbent on you to show your work.  Prove they don't exist.

See how that works?

[dcar00 14330]

8 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Not what I said at all but keep up your hysteria. 
 

Your ability to argue against things not said by many posters is quite impressive. If your arguments are so strong why do you constantly lie/misquote/ or add your own perceived spin to prove your points? Just part of the job?

he's paid 10,000 rubles per word.

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Brisket specifically identified that which he suggests you find for yourself.  You asked for the examples, so it is incumbent on you to show your work.  Prove they don't exist.

See how that works?

Your honor the defendant stole from me. 
 

Do you have any proof?

No, but he has no proOf he didn’t steal from me. 
 

Guilty. 

[workswithseed 2109]

21 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

at stone mountain didn't black AR guys show up and no one did anything...of course until the black AR guys shot each other.

 

[dcar00 14330]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

With 3 kids inside? That just outcome seems also bad especially since how blazzen he was getting away. You just don't know.

dude, checklist!!

tell him to stop, put the knife down(if he had one), try taser, point gun, tell him to stop, guy reaches in car, may still have knife.  

choices I see.

back off and hope he doesn't a) get in car with kids and do something crazy to cops or any of the bystanders or b) get another weapon.

put gun back in holster and try to wrestle him to the ground

shoot

[immortal13 4059]

32 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

How do you feel about the local PDs who unilaterally decided -- that is, they weren't ordered by the local gov't leadership -- to "disengage, and let shit happen?"  Because numerous PDs have said they are doing just that, and several have ALSO effectively stated that "maybe if the people see what it's like without police protection, they'll appreciate us more."  Funny that you give a pass to PDs that are actually letting horrific shit happen while they stand by and watch in order to make their political point.

 

Isn't that what you want?

[Sawbonz 27583]

47 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Videos like this show the problem with simply defunding the police. They need more money specifically pointed towards training, not guns/tanks. I'm talking 6 months to a year before getting out on the street. And then a week long refresher very 30-45 days. 

And don't get bogged down on the guy who posted the video. Do you honestly want cops like that acting in that manner on the streets? Especially when it could be in a situation that involves you?

 

Needs yakity sax

[Nicole44 22072]

None of the below explains the 7 shots (and there are some timeline gaps) but this seems to be the most complete account I could find on The Jacob Blake shooting. It’s from CNN but there are other news articles with the same information:

—————————————

“The incident started when a woman called police and said "her boyfriend was present and was not supposed to be on the premises," the Wisconsin Department of Justice Division of Criminal Investigation said.

In a police call, a dispatcher names Blake and says he "isn't supposed to be there" and that he took the complainant's keys and refused to leave. The dispatcher later explains she doesn't have more details because the caller was "uncooperative."

————————

“On May 3, Blake unlawfully entered the home and sexually assaulted a woman in her bedroom before leaving with her vehicle, according to the criminal complaint obtained by CNN. She also waived a temporary restraining order against Blake.

CNN does not typically identify sexual assault victims. 

The criminal complaint filed on July 6 listed charges of felony third-degree sexual assault and misdemeanor trespassing and disorderly conduct. The arrest warrant against Blake was filed the following day.”
——————————————

“A dispatcher appeared to warn responding officers about Blake's warrant, referring to "family trouble" at the residence in Kenosha and an "alert at this address for a ninety-nine." The police code 10-99 can refer to a wanted suspect.

It's unclear whether those officers knew about why there was an outstanding warrant against Blake when they arrived at the residence.“ https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/08/28/us/jacob-blake-wisconsin-friday/index.html

———————————

The above article mentions his three children aged 3-8 in the car and it was the oldest child’s birthday. It mentions officers deployed a taser. It mentions a knife was found in the floorboard of the car. It does not say he threatened anyone with it.

Another similar article I read said that the 911 call came from the same Block where he allegedly committed occurred (those that caused the warrant for him to be issued). 
 

it must be noted that his lawyers and family of Jacob Blake dispute the existence of the knife and have not commented on the warrant that was out for his arrest. They maintain he was going to his car to check on his kids. 
 

he is no longer handcuffed to his hospital bed and deputies have been removed from his room. 
 

thats all that has come out via legit news sources so far. 

[fattyflattie 4638]

Sexual assault to millionaire. Only in America. 

[Neonmoon 38130]

9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Sexual assault to millionaire. Only in America. 

I guess your forgetting the get paralyzed step

[Nicole44 22072]

Dailymail (again I always take with a grain of salt) is saying that of the three officers who responded to the 911 call (where Blake was shot): one was a female and the other had been on the force 18 months. Those two allegedly deployed their tasers but did not fire any shots. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8674395/Why-did-shoot-times-Jacob-Blake-asks-hospital-two-cops-named.html
 

The two cops who tried to arrest Jacob Blake before their colleague shot the unarmed black man seven times in the back in front of his three young children have been identified by authorities as Officers Vincent Arenas and Brittany Meronek of the Kenosha Police Department. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Nicole44

[InkaUtexas 26038]

3 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah, wonder if there is anything he could have done differently. 

29 yo and in top 10% of wealth in the country in less than a week.  Not a bad gig, if you can get it.

Oh I agree. There were things he could have been done differently. 

[Deej 76885]

1 hour ago, fattyflattie said:

Sexual assault to millionaire. Only in America. 

Seems like he has money the sexual assault victim can go after, now.

[purplepride95 6890]

Different outcome

 

[fattyflattie 4638]

Seriously, would anyone be upset if he fired a few into that asshole? 

[Neonmoon 38130]

Just now, fattyflattie said:

Seriously, would anyone be upset if he fired a few into that asshole? 

We believe in due process? 

[fattyflattie 4638]

Well how about a really solid ass whipping then? We need less assholes.  Less assholes and 90% of our problems would disappear. 

[Ignatius 4017]

2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Well how about a really solid ass whipping then? We need less assholes.  Less assholes and 90% of our problems would disappear. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

sheriff says he hasn't seen Jacob Blake shooting video:

 

 

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

It’s the NY Post, but they claim the woman who called the police on Blake was his alleged rape victim. 
 

The cops involved in the shooting of Jacob Blake — which touched off a fresh wave of angry, anti-police sentiment across the country — were attempting to arrest him for violating a restraining order stemming from an alleged sexual assault, The Post has learned.

Blake, 29, was forbidden from going to the Kenosha home of his alleged victim from the May 3 incident, and police were dispatched Sunday following a 911 call saying he was there. The officers were aware he had an open warrant, according to dispatch records, though it’s not clear if they knew the specific allegations of violence.
 

https://nypost.com/2020/08/28/this-is-why-jacob-blake-had-a-warrant-out-for-his-arrest/

[Neonmoon 38130]

Well then that justifies the seven shots...

[ChickenSandwich 9848]

Would one shot have made it better than seven?