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BBQ2Bayou

By BBQ2Bayou
in Can You Help Me With This?

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BBQ2Bayou

BBQ2Bayou 807

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I didn't search because I have shit cell reception where I am. We have a double wide on a lake. It's remote, but has indoor plumbing and electrical, real nice like, Clark. 

I've been here a couple weeks and one corner (circuit I suppose) that the oven, kitchen table light and the 2 wall plugs by the table on 2 walls don't work.

The breaker isn't flipping and it happened at first for a couple hours at a time, then it would come back on, on its own. 

It went out for 2 days straight and started coming on and off all day yesterday then came back on full time and today it's been working fine.

I can't find anything specific of when or why it does this. However, a new electric oven was put in a year ago. All of last year the new oven was used without any power issues like the current one.

Any ideas? Bulldoze and put a log cabin is my vote, but my dad and brother own it and they are cheap as fuck.

 

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25995

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6 hours ago, deadshank said:

If you have GFCIs check all of them and press the re-set buttons on each.

After that, remove all of your GFCIs and throw them in the trash and replace with regular plugs.

 

Fucking worst advice imaginable. 


GFCI's save lives.  Removing them is stupid and dangerous.

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Gil Bang

Gil Bang 25995

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1 hour ago, davidg said:

That one is for testing GFIs.   The $6 one just does outlets.

Shit.  Didn't notice the button.

 

So, once I (as an employee) foreclosed on a tract of homes under construction.  2nd phase, 12 homes total.  They were about 60%, and the contractor we hired sucked, so I ended up firing him and running the job personally to finish the houses.

Called the city inspector out to do the final inspection on a couple of houses that I had already sold and ready to close escrow that week.   The inspector is doing the final walk and says "oh, I won't be able to finish the inspection...I forgot my GFCI tester".   I'm like no problem dude, I've got mine, you can use it. 

He says "I cannot use yours, I have to use my own.  You might have manipulated yours somehow".   My jaw drops.   "Do you even hear how dumb that sounds?".

 

He says "yeah, I suppose you didn't do that" and agrees to use mine to finish the inspection.   What a dipshit. 

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Spur08

Spur08 382

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Speaking of electrical problems...i just got a new house and have an interesting problem. All the under cabinets lighting won't turn on. I've confirmed the breaker works and have even put in brand new bulbs. It is the last switch on a 3 plug (pole?) switch. All other fixtures on the relay work fine. What are the odds that every undermount light is broken? All the others work in the house, its just the kitchen.

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Stunns38

Stunns38 3538

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Speaking of electrical problems...i just got a new house and have an interesting problem. All the under cabinets lighting won't turn on. I've confirmed the breaker works and have even put in brand new bulbs. It is the last switch on a 3 plug (pole?) switch. All other fixtures on the relay work fine. What are the odds that every undermount light is broken? All the others work in the house, its just the kitchen.

Are they small LED lights? If so, check the low voltage transformer. Probably is defective.

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Poolflood

Poolflood 845

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12 hours ago, deadshank said:

If you have GFCIs check all of them and press the re-set buttons on each.

After that, remove all of your GFCIs and throw them in the trash and replace with regular plugs.

 

 

5 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Fucking worst advice imaginable. 


GFCI's save lives.  Removing them is stupid and dangerous.

Dude.  Pay attention.  He's explaining how to burn that cheap shit down to build a log cabin.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11682

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What you describe in OP definitely sounds like panel(the home of breakers) or breaker related.

 

GFCI breakers can be fickle.

Arc Fault breakers are the suck, in regards to nuisance tripping. 

 

Although I would be surprised if said "trailer" was constructed with Arc Fault breakers if it's more than a couple years old.

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BBQ2Bayou

BBQ2Bayou 807

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5 hours ago, Incredulity said:

What you describe in OP definitely sounds like panel(the home of breakers) or breaker related.

 

GFCI breakers can be fickle.

Arc Fault breakers are the suck, in regards to nuisance tripping. 

 

Although I would be surprised if said "trailer" was constructed with Arc Fault breakers if it's more than a couple years old.

It's from like the 70s. So it could be a breaker problem and the breaker is not flipping on the box or before it gets to the breaker box?

It's been back on for 2 days straight, so I haven't called an electrician. 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11682

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3 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

It's from like the 70s. So it could be a breaker problem and the breaker is not flipping on the box or before it gets to the breaker box?

It's been back on for 2 days straight, so I haven't called an electrician. 

Yes, breakers can just fail. Intermittent functioning wouldn’t be uncommon for a failing breaker.  I would not be at all surprised to encounter a failing breaker in a double wide trailer(cheap components)

Electrical systems for houses are not very complicated.  

In the panel there is a hot bus bar that the breaker “clips” to.  Into that breaker the black wire for each circuit will be connected.  There will be a neutral bus bar that the white wire for each circuit is connected to. There  also is a ground that the bare wire connects to.(for each 110 volt circuit; which every light, plug, switch, microwave, refrigerator.., are connected to)

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Texaus

Texaus 377

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An oven would be on a different circuit than outlets. So intermittent problems with multiple circuits. My guess is intermittent problem with incoming power, most likely one leg down. Is there any other 240v circuits in the home? Do they also go out when this happens? Call the power company.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11682

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2 hours ago, Texaus said:

An oven would be on a different circuit than outlets. So intermittent problems with multiple circuits. My guess is intermittent problem with incoming power, most likely one leg down. Is there any other 240v circuits in the home? Do they also go out when this happens? Call the power company.

good catch.

Ovens are on 240v circuits.  Larger gauge electrical wire into a 240V breaker which looks like a double 120 V breaker with both wires fed to the breaker as opposed to white to the neutral bus bar.

 

If oven and switches are out it does sound like a service, or panel issue and not a singular circuit issue.

 

OR you have some fucked up scab of a system, which isn't highly likely.

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BBQ2Bayou

BBQ2Bayou 807

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6 hours ago, Incredulity said:

good catch.

Ovens are on 240v circuits.  Larger gauge electrical wire into a 240V breaker which looks like a double 120 V breaker with both wires fed to the breaker as opposed to white to the neutral bus bar.

 

If oven and switches are out it does sound like a service, or panel issue and not a singular circuit issue.

 

OR you have some fucked up scab of a system, which isn't highly likely.

Well I just assumed it was an electric oven because it's going out at the very same times the wall outlets and hanging light are out. But I just realized it's a gas oven and stove.

So is this some bad 2020 voodoo shit? 

 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11682

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4 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Well I just assumed it was an electric oven because it's going out at the very same times the wall outlets and hanging light are out. But I just realized it's a gas oven and stove.

So is this some bad 2020 voodoo shit? 

 

 No, That would mean the oven only needs 120V plug in.  So that brings back the theory that a breaker in the panel is going bad. 

A good test would be to identify the breaker that serves the oven and switch it off.  If all the other switches and plugs that were out are out it would be a strong indication that the breaker is the issue.

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BBQ2Bayou

BBQ2Bayou 807

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10 hours ago, Incredulity said:

 No, That would mean the oven only needs 120V plug in.  So that brings back the theory that a breaker in the panel is going bad. 

A good test would be to identify the breaker that serves the oven and switch it off.  If all the other switches and plugs that were out are out it would be a strong indication that the breaker is the issue.

Yeah, they all went out on the same breaker.

I'm not messing with that shit. Thought maybe someone would tell me I'm a dipshit and to flip a switch for worky. 

I really can't tell if the oven is electric or not. It's plugged into a 120 but has an inside light and the stove is gas. The inside doesn't have coils like an electric, but it doesn't work when all that other stuff is off, which is why I assumed electric. 

I am a dipshit. 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11682

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34 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Yeah, they all went out on the same breaker.

I'm not messing with that shit. Thought maybe someone would tell me I'm a dipshit and to flip a switch for worky. 

I really can't tell if the oven is electric or not. It's plugged into a 120 but has an inside light and the stove is gas. The inside doesn't have coils like an electric, but it doesn't work when all that other stuff is off, which is why I assumed electric. 

I am a dipshit. 

The plug in of the oven is for the controls, clock...etc.  

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EE2B

EE2B 1565

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I'm guessing that if you can't tell if your oven is gas or electric then you probably shouldn't be messing with electricity.  However, if you do decide to, please video it for our amusement.

Live stream the shit so we can still see it in case you are left unable to upload the video.
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BBQ2Bayou

BBQ2Bayou 807

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44 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

If the controls are electric and there is no power it won’t work.

 

Ahh, electric start. It doesn't have digital controls or clock and that shit. Last one wasn't that fancy with an electric start.

Tried to preface my stupifuckery for y'all.

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  • 2 years later...
Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

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Posted

Stupid GFCI question. 

Replaced one of the garage GFCIs.  The plug for the sprinkler system is downstream of this GFCI.  Only two outlets on the line as far as I know. So replaced the GFCI and tested it with a three light. Fine fine. Testing the trip and it will trip the GFCI when plugged into the GFCI outlet, but if I put the three light in the downstream outlet that runs the sprinker, the trip test does not trip the GFCI and power remains on teh downstream outlet. Manual test on the outlet yield same result (Doesn't trip the outlet). I have a powerbar plugged into the outlet directly, and if I put the three light in it and run the trip test it trips the outlet. 

 

WTF explains these observations?

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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10348

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14 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Stupid GFCI question. 

Replaced one of the garage GFCIs.  The plug for the sprinkler system is downstream of this GFCI.  Only two outlets on the line as far as I know. So replaced the GFCI and tested it with a three light. Fine fine. Testing the trip and it will trip the GFCI when plugged into the GFCI outlet, but if I put the three light in the downstream outlet that runs the sprinker, the trip test does not trip the GFCI and power remains on teh downstream outlet. Manual test on the outlet yield same result (Doesn't trip the outlet). I have a powerbar plugged into the outlet directly, and if I put the three light in it and run the trip test it trips the outlet. 

 

WTF explains these observations?

I'm going to assume it just means the plug is not actually downstream of that particular GFCI.  If you flip the breaker do they both outlets go off? Then would be upstream of it and you just need to switch the GFCI to the upstream outlet.

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

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5 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I'm going to assume it just means the plug is not actually downstream of that particular GFCI.  If you flip the breaker do they both outlets go off? Then would be upstream of it and you just need to switch the GFCI to the upstream outlet.

Same breaker. I don’t know what’s going on behind the wall, but two lines into the gfci box and only one goes out to the other outlet so it’s end of run.  It’s possible that there there my outdoor light in on that circuit too but the outlet is end of the run. 

Edited by Anastasis
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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10348

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17 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Same breaker. I don’t know what’s going on behind the wall, but two lines into the gfci box and only one goes out to the other outlet so it’s end of run.  It’s possible that there there my outdoor light in on that circuit too but the outlet is end of the run. 

Are you saying when you trip the GFCI at the GFCI outlet things work as expected, both outlets lose power... but if you put the tester in the end of run outlet, pressing the tester button won't trip the GFCI?  If that is the case it means the outlet is GFCI protected by that end outlet isn't grounded (has no ground wire).  The tester works by shorting to ground but can't without a ground present.

Edited by MonkeyDoughnut
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23481

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1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Are you saying when you trip the GFCI at the GFCI outlet things work as expected, both outlets lose power... but if you put the tester in the end of run outlet, pressing the tester button won't trip the GFCI?

Breaker off - both outlets have no power

Breaker on - both outlets have power

Breaker on, GFCI test tripped - no power to GFCI but still passing power to the end of run outlet.

 

This doesn't make any sense to me unless the end of the run outlet is hopping off somewhere before the GFCI, which would be stupid and I don't think code compliant. I also determined that the lamppost outside is on this same circuit. If I trip the GFCI it goes off as expected. Is there a code exception for a single receptacle intended to power irrigation? I feel like I am missing something here. 

Edited by Anastasis
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MonkeyDoughnut

MonkeyDoughnut 10348

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32 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Breaker off - both outlets have no power

Breaker on - both outlets have power

Breaker on, GFCI test tripped - no power to GFCI but still passing power to the end of run outlet.

 

This doesn't make any sense to me unless the end of the run outlet is hopping off somewhere before the GFCI, which would be stupid and I don't think code compliant. I also determined that the lamppost outside is on this same circuit. If I trip the GFCI it goes off as expected. Is there a code exception for a single receptacle intended to power irrigation? I feel like I am missing something here. 

The only thing that would make sense then is if you pull the GFCI outlet and find that all connections are being made on the "Line" screw side and no wires are connected to the "Load" screws.  If that is the case then obviously wires wrong and 2nd set of wires need to be on the Load screws.

Edited by MonkeyDoughnut
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Incredulity

Incredulity 11682

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On 8/1/2023 at 12:57 PM, Anastasis said:

Breaker off - both outlets have no power

Breaker on - both outlets have power

Breaker on, GFCI test tripped - no power to GFCI but still passing power to the end of run outlet.

 

This doesn't make any sense to me unless the end of the run outlet is hopping off somewhere before the GFCI, which would be stupid and I don't think code compliant. I also determined that the lamppost outside is on this same circuit. If I trip the GFCI it goes off as expected. Is there a code exception for a single receptacle intended to power irrigation? I feel like I am missing something here. 

If you wire a GFCI on a pigtail downline plugs will not loose power if the GFCI trips.  I would guess the sprinkler system was tripping the GFCI previously due to miniscule electrical changes  associated with valves opening or other sprinkler system functions.

 

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Bevo

Bevo 13596

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Posted
On 8/25/2020 at 9:44 PM, Spur08 said:
On 8/25/2020 at 9:28 PM, Stunns38 said:
Are they small LED lights? If so, check the low voltage transformer. Probably is defective.

17" fluorescent. 5 different fixtures

Same thing but different - instead of low voltage transformer maybe it is a defective ballast.

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Bevo

Bevo 13596

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16 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Same thing but different - instead of low voltage transformer maybe it is a defective ballast.

Sorry, starter not ballast, but the starter is usually part of the ballast.

Edited by Bevo
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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6723

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Don't really know shit about fuck, but I've seen plugs intentionally miswired to prevent freezers from being tripped.  Is it possible that the previous owner had a freezer or refrigerator operating off of the same outlet as the irrigation?

I would just put a regular plug in it before I did that.
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horn4life

horn4life 3781

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Ahhh... the mystery of the prior electrician!  

You are gonna need to pull the GFCI and take a look at it. WARNING!!!!  If your GFCI is used using a quick connect make sure to try to release the line, rather and twist it out using a little muscle.  Tends to cause the quick connects to no longer make a consistent connection, so press the release in fully as you press the wire into the plug BEFORE bulling the line out.  If not wire to post screws.

I am assuming there the GFCI is either wired with a pigtail, to allow current downstream as has been discussed, or there is some funky wiring you cannot see.  If you pull the GFCI out slightly you can get a good look at the connections and that may give you some clues.  Sometimes electricians are lazy dumb asses!

Story as example is years ago my BIL was hosting a family reunion and the water pump at his lake house on LBJ goes out.  It's about 25 feet down and its the day before the event so we just pull the damn thing out, and by some miracle the store n Burnet had an exact replacement.  I was responsible for the rewire so I match of the wires heat shrink and waterproof the connection, and we put that sucker down in the hole... Nothing!  My BIL is of course asking me if I made the correct connections, which I am sure I did.  He goes back to the store in Burnet and they offer to send out their guy that does these things for them.  About 2 hours later he shows up.  After a few minutes he looks at the electrical panel and says, "Oh I remember this one."  Then he switched the black and white wires at the electrical box, and it worked fine. apparently that dumbass had mis-wired the in the ground connection, and his fix was simply to switch the wires on the breaker box. WITHOUT FUCKING LABELING IT!!! 

The most interesting thing about the story... The Electrician's nick name was... wait for it... Jinx!

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TeeDubya

TeeDubya 3362

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On 8/1/2023 at 2:57 PM, Anastasis said:

Breaker off - both outlets have no power

Breaker on - both outlets have power

Breaker on, GFCI test tripped - no power to GFCI but still passing power to the end of run outlet.

 

This doesn't make any sense to me unless the end of the run outlet is hopping off somewhere before the GFCI, which would be stupid and I don't think code compliant. I also determined that the lamppost outside is on this same circuit. If I trip the GFCI it goes off as expected. Is there a code exception for a single receptacle intended to power irrigation? I feel like I am missing something here. 

likely a pigtail with incoming power to outbound power, bypassing GFCI

On 8/8/2023 at 4:34 PM, Incredulity said:

 

If you wire a GFCI on a pigtail downline plugs will not loose power if the GFCI trips.  I would guess the sprinkler system was tripping the GFCI previously due to miniscule electrical changes  associated with valves opening or other sprinkler system functions.

 

This.

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