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Several shot during 3rd night of Kenosha riots

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9,308

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26 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

Then lets have those good people get rid of the bad ones. My uncle is a detective and stepmom DPD and I asked them both this question and they said they would too much. They are now bad cops to em

My bad for typos.. I'm drinking. They said they would risk too much and I believe them. My stepbrothers did all sorts of bullshit when they were younger. One broke into a school with friends and pissed all over stuff. Cops brought them home for her to deal with it. That shit wouldn't happen to me or other kids in that area at all

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The “I used to vote Republican” line is the CR’s version of “I have a black friend.”   

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so, yeah, this is the problem writ large. unarmed black dude, may be a threat, shot several times in the back. armed white dude, with an assault rifle present and visible, who just shot some people, w

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Kenosha's very own Sweet Corn Fest, held every August Jerry Smith Produce and Pumpkin Farm (7150 18th St.), would like you to know that they are here to support you during this difficult time. Wh

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Doc Reeves

Doc Reeves 6,434

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

My bad for typos.. I'm drinking. They said they would risk too much and I believe them. My stepbrothers did all sorts of bullshit when they were younger. One broke into a school with friends and pissed all over stuff. Cops brought them home for her to deal with it. That shit wouldn't happen to me or other kids in that area at all

at 8PM?

 

Excellent. Kids just went to sleep and I just cracked open the double wood. I'll see you soon.

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Deej

Deej 77,665

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9 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If his mom  gave him the gun, took him across state line to Kenosha, and then brought him back across the state line and took him home, I'm guessing she'll be seeing the inside of a police station at some point.

Pic of mom.

 

Mackenzie_Kelly (1).jpg

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9,918

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I haven't seen it verified, but one one of the news sites had him living alone with his mom, in a small apartment.   

 

If true, I’m sure his disposition towards the riots wasn’t helped by all of the media in his life lecturing him on his white privilege. Right or wrong, it has a psychological effect on young minds and while impossible to prove could have contributed. 
 

Hard to turn on the tv or go online and not find hate and division featured front and center.  

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Brew

Brew 3,049

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Posted

It wasn’t very long ago that people that stepped in to try and disarm a shooter were viewed as heroic. I haven’t watched the videos and will not, because watching someone die holds no interest to me. However, where is the line between the deceased being heroic and stupid? Again, viewing it in the vacuum of shots being fired and the first guy dying in the street typically means there will be a textile from someone nearby. Is it just because the deceased are participating in a protest that leads up to it rather than sitting in a church that makes them stupid? None of them should be there is the argument, but once there should guys 2/3 and potentially 1 not react to stop what they view as a shooter. The whole story around these deals is just strange to me.

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Pancho

Pancho 46,047

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A lot of folks in this thread have insinuated (or explicitly stated) that if more Black folks would “just comply” there wouldn’t be issues.

i can honestly say no Black person could act like this and not be shot as an end result:

 

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TheStoicPaisano

TheStoicPaisano 9,948

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22 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

If his mom  gave him the gun, took him across state line to Kenosha, and then brought him back across the state line and took him home, I'm guessing she'll be seeing the inside of a police station at some point.

His attorney said the kid borrowed the gun from a friend and it never left Wisconsin. I guess the graffiti cleanup was earlier in the day and he just stuck around Kenosha. I’ve seen pictures of what looks like the Mom strapped up at the riot, but it is grainy.

Nick Sandmann’s Qanon adjacent lawyer is also on the team and running his mouth via Twitter.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2,201

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2 minutes ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

His attorney said the kid borrowed the gun from a friend and it never left Wisconsin. I guess the graffiti cleanup was earlier in the day and he just stuck around Kenosha. I’ve seen pictures of what looks like the Mom strapped up at the riot, but it is grainy.

Nick Sandmann’s Qanon adjacent lawyer is also on the team and running his mouth via Twitter.

His lawyer also won Sandman a lot of money, so.....

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 90,542

Posted
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1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

If true, I’m sure his disposition towards the riots wasn’t helped by all of the media in his life lecturing him on his white privilege. Right or wrong, it has a psychological effect on young minds and while impossible to prove could have contributed. 
Hard to turn on the tv or go online and not find hate and division featured front and center.  

If only it were as simple as blaming social media for radicalizing him and getting him to go to whatever rallies some are claiming he went to, where he was perhaps radicalized more.  

Speaking of such media, obviously the stuff he posted on social media has done him no favors at all, particularly being full-on into the Back the Blue movement, complete with Stay-Puft Jr. being a junior cop cadet or whatever.

And the interviews he gave before the shooting have done him no favors either -  I honestly think he believes he was there to protect/help people with his little medical kit and the rifle, and that he believes that he had the right to break curfew, illegally carry, etc.   He sounded confident/justified/excited in those interviews.   A normal person breaking curfew by 3 or so hours, carrying a rifle when they knew they were not allowed to, in a dangerous situation, would have not acted the way he did in those interviews.

Which points to a mental illness.

Which ties into his classmates saying that if there was a school shooter, he would have been it.   And, for as much shit as we like to give Gen Zers, teens are pretty fucking good at sniffing out the weirdos like that.  Way too many school shootings end up with interviews of classmates or staff saying "yeah, that was pretty much who we expected to shoot the place up."

And I'm not saying he would have shot the school up - maybe his mom putting him through all of that cop cosplaying academy stuff channeled something in him, and perhaps gave him a focus that a lot of other kids in his situation might not have had.  She may not have been into the Back the Blue stuff, but saw it as an outlet or framework that he needed.

I do know that he's taken the lives of two people, nearly took the arm of a third, has traumatized their families, destroyed his life, and his actions could very well put his mother in legal jeopardy, if not financial jeopardy.  A lot of people should look at him as a lesson in what not to do, but too many are taking the opposite away from it.

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9,308

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41 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

If true, I’m sure his disposition towards the riots wasn’t helped by all of the media in his life lecturing him on his white privilege. Right or wrong, it has a psychological effect on young minds and while impossible to prove could have contributed. 
 

Hard to turn on the tv or go online and not find hate and division featured front and center.  

Yep the media and fake news caused it. 

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NorthLoop

NorthLoop 14,420

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Posted
1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

Maybe I missed this in the videos or commentary, but has it been explained yet why the short guy was chasing the shooter yet? 

I'm just gonna go out on a limb here but there was probably some mutual shit talking going on before that happened. 

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NorthLoop

NorthLoop 14,420

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6 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

El Guapo said he apparently raise his gun Rosenbaum. I asked for evidence, but didn't get any. I'm just getting hearsay.

El Guapo didn't say that. He asked the question "if he raised his gun before the confrontation, does that rule out self defense?". 

 

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washparkhorn

washparkhorn 9,967

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Posted

This is a subject with no easy answers. Wisconsin is fairly unique among states now - with a duty to retreat requirement. This will come down to a jury. 

Sad case all around. Another slice on this nation that is hopelessly broken. 

Counter protests often lead to violence when there are self-appointed peace officers openly carrying. I hope we solve that problem.

Hook 'em. 

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StruggleBus

StruggleBus 3,922

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23 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

I haven't watched all the videos - mostly because I just don't like seeing people get shot, but how much video is out there of the minutes leading up to the first shooting? 

Not much. Pretty much all you see is the guy that died chasing the dude with the AR. When he catches him, the dude with the AR turns around and shoots him. 

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9,308

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37 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

I haven't watched all the videos - mostly because I just don't like seeing people get shot, but how much video is out there of the minutes leading up to the first shooting? 

It is truly insane that we are discussing the legality of this shit. Not anything directed at anyone but just spitballing here thinking god damn a kid murdering people and we are worried if it is legal.

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9,308

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Yeah, evidence, at this point doesn't support that he murdered him.

Legality matters when it comes to some terms, particularly murder. If not, one can claim all soldiers that kill in the line of duty under duress are commiting murder. 

Words matter, and in this case the the legal aspects define what word is accurate. Based on current known evidence it does not appear it is murder under the law and claiming that it is illustrates you are not aware of existing evidence, have chosen to ignore it or are unaware of the legal aspects.

Understood. and you know me better than anyone on this site, but I am drinking so  just thinking out loud . I know we have always had bad shit go down in this country and others. I moved to Mexico and lived as an"illegal" for 3 years and saw more than enough dead bodies, corrupt cops. and being paid under the table and that is fucking with me but man I just wanted better here. Worst part to me is this kid was just wanting to be a cop and protect  shit cause of what he saw and heard. I fear the racist fucks with weapons that want to incite shit. Whatever both sides I know. Again drunk

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NorthLoop

NorthLoop 14,420

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16 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

After throwing something at him heavy that may or may not have been on fire but was very heavy. 

He also, per the existing evidence/statements was cornered and then fired after the first dead guy grabbed for his gun.

So let's just say that Rosenbaum went full aggro and just bumrushed this kid (I'm not saying he didn't.. honestly there's a good chance that that's what happened), and the kid shit his pants and shot him out of pure fear for his own life. 

Where's the line of right and wrong? 

I say the fact that he put himself in that situation in the first place makes him guilty. If he knew that he'd end up shooting someone that bumrushed him during a riot BEFORE he inserted himself into that riot, then he's guilty of murder. If he truly didn't know how he'd react in that situation, then he's guilty of manslaughter or reckless endangerment at the minimum. Problem is there's no way of ever knowing if he knew how he'd react (of course the videos of him beforehand won't help his cause). 

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Zepol87

Zepol87 9,308

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1 minute ago, NorthLoop said:

So let's just say that Rosenbaum went full aggro and just bumrushed this kid (I'm not saying he didn't.. honestly there's a good chance that that's what happened), and the kid shit his pants and shot him out of pure fear for his own life. 

Where's the line of right and wrong? 

I say the fact that he put himself in that situation in the first place makes him guilty. If he knew that he'd end up shooting someone that bumrushed him during a riot BEFORE he inserted himself into that riot, then he's guilty of murder. If he truly didn't know how he'd react in that situation, then he's guilty of manslaughter or reckless endangerment at the minimum. Problem is there's no way of ever knowing if he knew how he'd react (of course the videos of him beforehand won't help his cause). 

I heard alot of don't start no shit won't be no shit on social media about the incident but it seems this kid did exactly that by heading up there.

Been seeing the mom drove him up there also any word or truth to that? 

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NorthLoop

NorthLoop 14,420

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Ok so I watched the video of him before the shootings where he's all "we're gonna defend this building" and also says "we're lethal" ..

 

Kid wanted to shoot someone. He wanted to be seen like the Korean store owners in LA '92 defending their shit. Didn't go down like he wanted. He played dress up soldier and shit got real. 

I really hope the group of "defenders" he was with, who I'm guessing are mostly if not all adults, will also see repercussions from this. They brought this kid in with them. 

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goatsaag

goatsaag 281

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2 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

Ok so I watched the video of him before the shootings where he's all "we're gonna defend this building" and also says "we're lethal" ..

Did you actually watch that video? He says "I just got pepper sprayed by a person in the crowd", the person recording says "So you have non lethal but you didn't respond", and his reply is "We don't have non lethal". Then he is asked "So you are fully ready to protect the property?" and he says "Yes, we are".

People trying to push the narrative that he went there with the intention of shooting someone are going to have to find some type of proof that is the case. Videos of him cleaning graffiti, providing medical help, and attempting to run away in every case where he eventually shoots paints a very different picture than someone who just showed up to kill someone.

It's possible that some evidence like that exists and comes out eventually, but so far, I haven't seen it.

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NorthLoop

NorthLoop 14,420

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1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

 

The evidence, at this point, supports that the kid was the one who did not break any laws other a class C misdemeanor.

What law did Rosenbaum break? 

 

Just now, BurntEyes said:

Well, you're welcome to your opinion.

However, you're not a judge to my knowledge, the case will be decided by a jury and your legally incorrect based on the current know evidence available.

*you're

I'm legally incorrect that this kid will be held liable for unnecessarily putting himself into a situation where he felt he had to kill someone? I'm not gonna pull out the case files but I'd say there's plenty of precedent for that charge. 

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NorthLoop

NorthLoop 14,420

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13 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

This. In fact, in the video he mentions his med kit and actually touches it more than he does the rifle which he is not carrying at low ready. It's actually slug.

Nothing I've seen in the interview  indicates a vigilante wannabe. There may be other evidence that changes that in the future.

Well folks. He touched his med kit more than his rifle. Case closed. 

12 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Watch the fucking video on the last page. You're wrong legally and don't know wtf you're talking about.

I'm done going in circles.

I've already stated that I think this kid is gonna get off on all murder charges. I still think he's a murdering fuck. I also think that anyone who supports him is a bonafide piece of shit. Not legally of course - I'm not a legal judge and cannot legally decree someone a piece of shit. But feel free to get those panties wadded up tight. 

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BNB

BNB 100

Posted
Posted
A lot of folks in this thread have insinuated (or explicitly stated) that if more Black folks would “just comply” there wouldn’t be issues.

i can honestly say no Black person could act like this and not be shot as an end result:

 

Didnt the cop tell him to get back in the vehicle?

 

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2 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

 

I say the fact that he put himself in that situation in the first place makes him guilty.

But we aren't allowed to feel the same way about looters and rioters?

I already spoke out against the 17 YO up thread, but the counterpoint is screaming here.

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Homercles

Homercles 10,206

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8 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

After throwing something at him heavy that may or may not have been on fire but was very heavy. 

He also, per the existing evidence/statements was cornered and then fired after the first dead guy grabbed for his gun.

Wait...it was very heavy and may/may not have been on fire?  I saw a plastic bag with a few items like water bottles that was thrown in frustration.  Didn’t realize it was a depleted uranium bowling ball Molotov cocktail...

 

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Doc Reeves

Doc Reeves 6,434

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, slorch said:

But we aren't allowed to feel the same way about looters and rioters?

I already spoke out against the 17 YO up thread, but the counterpoint is screaming here.


you can feel what ever you want. Still, it is greatly frowned apon in this country to murder people in the street and no one should feel confident with the DA if they are put in that position. 
The standard view by LE is that everyon is wrong during unrest.
 

For example:

Latasha Harlins (January 1, 1976 – March 16, 1991) was a 15-year-old African-American girl who was fatally shot by Soon Ja Du (Hangul:두순자), a 51-year-old Korean-born female convenience store owner. Du was tried and convicted of voluntary manslaughter in Harlins' death. Although the jury recommended a sentence of 16 years, Judge Joyce Karlin sentenced Du to time served,[1] five years of probation, 400 hours of community service, a $500 restitution, and funeral expenses.[2] The death of Latasha Harlins, which was recorded on security footage, and the later sentencing and failed appeal, are considered to have contributed to the 1992 Los Angeles riots, especially the targeting of Koreatown, Los Angeles. Harlins' death came 13 days after the videotaped beating of Rodney King.

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