Several shot during 3rd night of Kenosha riots

[goatsaag 279]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

No.  If it's your home, your store, and you are there, and are armed to protect your property, then you are most likely acting for the purpose of protecting your property.

When you have a stated desire to play hero wannabe cop, and you travel from out of town/state TO the event loaded for bear....yeah, you're hunting people.  Just like someone who has a stated desire to "burn down the property of capitalists" travels there from out of state with a trunk full of bottles and gasoline is looking to wreck shit.  I think that both of those types of people have serious culpability.

Yeah, no. That's really fucking stupid. If it comes out that he had the stated desire to kill looters/rioters/protesters, then you'll have an argument and your comparison will be correct. Until something like that comes out, the self defense argument is incredibly easy to make. 

But yes, he is definitely a wannabe cop and is not a hero. There just also is no reason to believe he's a white supremacist domestic terrorist.

[BrickTop 474]

Retard alert 
When a right wing agitator breaks the law, it’s always that they they’re being charged for breaking the law bc “politics” 

If you can get past the unlawfully. Carrying a rifle and the fact he shouldn’t be there I’d be willing to bet that one of the lawyers on here could pretty easily craft an argument cementing self defense, that’s not hard to do fear of grave bodily injury or death and in every one of those encounters you could argue it, pretty reasonably. Do I think he should of been there absolutely not but he got himself into a situation that he couldn’t get out and got pretty lucky because he did meet the self defense standards, whether or not The crowd was trying to disarm him is irrelevant it’s whether he can prove he was in fear of grave bodily harm or death

[Brisketexan 104707]

Hey immortal....why the neg-bombing?  Won't you answer my question that Onboard won't?  I mean, I know I hit below the belt by, you know, quoting his exact words and stuff.  Why you running from that?  What are you so afraid of?  Why don't you own your take?  Come on, you can do it.  We know that you happily dump the entire BLM movement in the shitter because of violence committed by some people associated with it, but you won't do the same with respect to the opposition.  How about you tell us why?  I think we'd love to hear it....

[immortal13 4059]

2 hours ago, goatsaag said:

I'm curious as to why this is your belief. Did every person there with a gun go there for the purpose of hunting people?

Brisket is just being obtuse. Obviously we know he's not stupid, even though he seems to be ate up with it on this thread. There is a video where he actually states his intended purpose for being there. Is that the truth or merely a cover? Who fucking knows, but it looks much more likely that his intentions were peaceful than captain dumpster fire guy. 

I'm in agreement with Burnt. There is a ton of exculpatory evidence in just what we see in the various videos...he was being chased by a group/mob, including a man that also had a gun and another that had already been verbally aggressive to him and had exhibited violence prior to the shooting. He was fleeing until he tripped, was cornered and dude tried to take his gun. Seems like the defense is already established and ON VIDEO.

Should he have been there? No, and neither should any other of the actors in this play. I have yet to see anyone disputing that fact. I'm all for charging the kid for the crimes he committed. I'm never in favor of charging ANYONE for crimes they did not.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by immortal13

[Brisketexan 104707]

5 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

There is a video where he actually states his intended purpose for being there.

And there's actually an online history for him, consistent and repetitive history, that shows that he was itching to go be Johnny Hero to "back the blue" and MAGA.  Come on, man.  And "peaceful" intent.....if he'd showed up with the "weapons" of rioters -- shields, leafblowers, etc.....well, we'd be saying that he was clearly there "to be up to no good."  He showed up with....a lot more lethal shit than that -- a freaking .223 with extra mags.  Strapped, and carried around at a low ready (see the multiple photos before the final events).  When you show up strapped, carrying your weapon like you're on combat patrol, you ain't there because you love peace and Jesus.

[immortal13 4059]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And there's actually an online history for him, consistent and repetitive history, that shows that he was itching to go be Johnny Hero to "back the blue" and MAGA.  Come on, man.  And "peaceful" intent.....if he'd showed up with the "weapons" of rioters -- shields, leafblowers, etc.....well, we'd be saying that he was clearly there "to be up to no good."  He showed up with....a lot more lethal shit than that -- a freaking .223 with extra mags.  Strapped, and carried around at a low ready (see the multiple photos before the final events).  When you show up strapped, carrying your weapon like you're on combat patrol, you ain't there because you love peace and Jesus.

Was he the only one there with a gun? Was he the only one chasing people with a gun?

 

Oh wait, my bad. He was the one being chased by someone with a gun. Carry on....

[immortal13 4059]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And there's actually an online history for him, consistent and repetitive history, that shows that he was itching to go be Johnny Hero to "back the blue" and MAGA.  Come on, man.  And "peaceful" intent.....if he'd showed up with the "weapons" of rioters -- shields, leafblowers, etc.....well, we'd be saying that he was clearly there "to be up to no good."  He showed up with....a lot more lethal shit than that -- a freaking .223 with extra mags.  Strapped, and carried around at a low ready (see the multiple photos before the final events).  When you show up strapped, carrying your weapon like you're on combat patrol, you ain't there because you love peace and Jesus.

And it looks like there is an online history for Rosenberg, aka dumpster fire guy, aka the aggressor. 

[Brisketexan 104707]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

Was he the only one there with a gun? Was he the only one chasing people with a gun?

 

Oh wait, my bad. He was the one being chased by someone with a gun. Carry on....

Can you find the part where I defend the guy chasing him with a handgun?  Please do.

I think the guys (I'm focusing on the none-locals) who showed up with guns had bad fucking intentions.  That includes all of them.  But especially the ones with a recorded, easily accessible history of wanting to be Johnny Law Gunman and MAGA.....you know, the leader that said, publicly, "when the looting starts, the shooting starts!"....yeah, especially those.  They had bad shit on their mind.

[immortal13 4059]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Can you find the part where I defend the guy chasing him with a handgun?  Please do.

I think the guys (I'm focusing on the none-locals) who showed up with guns had bad fucking intentions.  That includes all of them.  But especially the ones with a recorded, easily accessible history of wanting to be Johnny Law Gunman and MAGA.....you know, the leader that said, publicly, "when the looting starts, the shooting starts!"....yeah, especially those.  They had bad shit on their mind.

So the ones that support the opposite political side than yourself are worse? Ok, got it.

[Brisketexan 104707]

Just now, immortal13 said:

So the ones that support the opposite political side than yourself are worse? Ok, got it.

Guys who show up with a lethal weapon are definitely in the bad bucket.  I include the Austin idiot who got himself shot.  When you make a special effort to show up at a tense situation, strapped and carrying at a low ready....yeah, you're up to no good.

[immortal13 4059]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Guys who show up with a lethal weapon are definitely in the bad bucket.  I include the Austin idiot who got himself shot.  When you make a special effort to show up at a tense situation, strapped and carrying at a low ready....yeah, you're up to no good.

I'm sure there were plenty of lethal weapons being carried at the event, concealed, unconcealed, high, low and inbetween.

[Brisketexan 104707]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

I'm sure there were plenty of lethal weapons being carried at the event, concealed, unconcealed, high, low and inbetween.

No doubt.  And showing up at a protest with a gun -- whether or not it is entirely peaceful -- turns whatever it was into a "gunfight."  And yeah, I have a real problem with people stroking their rifles just waiting until they finally get to show what a Billy Badass they are and get into a gunfight.  And it's pretty clear that's where this kid's head is.  We've got a shitload of Francis-es from Stripes running around, and that's bad fucking news:

[Nicole44 22028]

1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Maybe, maybe not.

Maybe Watching the Dallas Cowboys  scrimmage that’s on KBVO (Austin) right now where the players have no numbers nor names on their jerseys (you know cuz other teams might scout them) would be more interesting than trying to solve them many things in this thread. Maybe not? Like we don’t know who WR Lamb is man. We know. 
 

anyway carry on. I got all my aggression out earlier here and feel better. Gonna wait until after curfew and steal shit fromthe Yeti store on SoCo...just kidding. 
 

 

[Js1 85142]

I’d just like to know when it’s ok to be the equivalent of an AstroTurf shit starter? When it’s a white teenager with a gun trying to place cop? 

Because the same suspects here post fake news about bus loads of Antifa allegedly coming to town and labeling them shit stirrers who don’t belong. 

Not that I think they’ll care to respond. They have their new hero if the week in a murderer Bc he fulfilled their perverted fucked up fantasies of shooting anyone who doesn’t support a lawless police force and fascist government who murders minorities without consequence. 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

7 hours ago, Pancho said:

Here’s someone who wasn’t shot while actually wrestling a cop.  Wonder why?

 

Good find.

Shows how the police followed the same procedure for both white and black suspects. First the officer attempts to physically subdue the suspect, he has his taser ready as a second option. This is where the similarities end. This suspect was successfully subdued physically and the officer didn’t have to use the taser. Blake fought off the physical attempt, then fought off the secondary taser. I can’t see the white suspect’s knife in the video but will assume they are on aisle 5. 
 

 

[Bash Riprock 1695]

Not trolling, just wanted a question.

What good has come from these protests?

[Brisketexan 104707]

Not trolling, just wanted a question.
What good has come from these protests?

The same amount that happened from voting and waiting on elected officials to act.

The same amount that happened from a peaceful demonstration by athletes.

The same amount that happened from peaceful marches over the years.

None. Because that’s how we want it. There is no right path for black people. Whatever they do will be vilified, they will be demonized, and treated like contemptible shit. Same as always.

[immortal13 4059]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The same amount that happened from voting and waiting on elected officials to act.

The same amount that happened from a peaceful demonstration by athletes.

The same amount that happened from peaceful marches over the years.

None. Because that’s how we want it. There is no right path for black people. Whatever they do will be vilified, they will be demonized, and treated like contemptible shit. Same as always.

That's how you want it?

[VABuckeye 2472]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There is no right path for black people.

This shit is getting old.

What you mean to say is that there is no clear path for poor black people.  Those that choose the same path over and over and over again.  Yeah, odds are stacked against them but odds have been stacked against immigrants and minorities everywhere for a long. long time and those that choose to do do and those that don't don't.

Jesus Christ, people have to have some accountability for themselves and their lives and the path they choose. Choose a fucking decent path and things just might turn out alright for you.

That ok with you, comrade?

Or would you rather continue to blame everyones problems on anyone but themselves?  Yes, there need to be social changes but goddamn the shit you spew is ridiculous at times.

Edited August 31, 2020 by VABuckeye

[Guest]

Accountability is for the state, not the individual.
 

Likewise, solutions only emanate from the state.  The individual has zero control of any outcomes. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by slorch

[Brisketexan 104707]

That's how you want it?

Nope. But folks who feel otherwise have been outvoted, consistently.

[Brisketexan 104707]

This shit is getting old.
What you mean to say is that there is no clear path for poor black people.  Those that choose the same path over and over and over again.  Yeah, odds are stacked against them but odds have been stacked against immigrants and minorities everywhere for a long. long time and those that choose to do do and those that don't don't.
Jesus Christ, people have to have some accountability for themselves and their lives and the path they choose. Choose a fucking decent path and things just might turn out alright for you.
That ok with you, comrade?
Or would you rather continue to blame everyones problems on anyone but themselves?  Yes, there need to be social changes but goddamn the shit you spew is ridiculous at times.

Glad you tossed in a casual reference to the odds being stacked against them. But otherwise, I’ll put you in the “black people really don’t experience material discrimination, and anything bad that happens to them is their fault” category.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

20 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

This shit is getting old.

What you mean to say is that there is no clear path for poor black people.  Those that choose the same path over and over and over again.  Yeah, odds are stacked against them but odds have been stacked against immigrants and minorities everywhere for a long. long time and those that choose to do do and those that don't don't.

Jesus Christ, people have to have some accountability for themselves and their lives and the path they choose. Choose a fucking decent path and things just might turn out alright for you.

That ok with you, comrade?

Or would you rather continue to blame everyones problems on anyone but themselves?  Yes, there need to be social changes but goddamn the shit you spew is ridiculous at times.

This sentiment was as tired and morally bankrupt now as when it was it was popular in the South in the 50s.  Oh, and empirically incorrect. 

[Js1 85142]

24 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

This shit is getting old.

What you mean to say is that there is no clear path for poor black people.  Those that choose the same path over and over and over again.  Yeah, odds are stacked against them but odds have been stacked against immigrants and minorities everywhere for a long. long time and those that choose to do do and those that don't don't.

Jesus Christ, people have to have some accountability for themselves and their lives and the path they choose. Choose a fucking decent path and things just might turn out alright for you.

That ok with you, comrade?

Or would you rather continue to blame everyones problems on anyone but themselves?  Yes, there need to be social changes but goddamn the shit you spew is ridiculous at times.

Bootstraps!!!!!!! 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

This sentiment was as tired and morally bankrupt now as when it was it was popular in the South in the 50s.  Oh, and empirically incorrect. 

You’re right.   Nobody has a chance these days, and most certainly the black man has been summarily dismissed from  our society.

[dcar00 14036]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Bootstraps!!!!!!! 

Jackboots!!!!

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Bootstraps!!!!!!! 

Can’t say that word.   It hurts people...

 

 

and their fairy tales.

[Brisketexan 104707]

You’re right.   Nobody has a chance these days, and most certainly the black man has been summarily dismissed from  our society.

The odds are against them compared to white folks. What’s say we work to make them even, or closer to it?

[dcar00 14036]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Glad you tossed in a casual reference to the odds being stacked against them. But otherwise, I’ll put you in the “black people really don’t experience material discrimination, and anything bad that happens to them is their fault” category.

that's your problem...you just want to categorize people

[VABuckeye 2472]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The odds are against them compared to white folks. What’s say we work to make them even, or closer to it?

Are the odds that much different for poor white people, or poor Hispanics?  

[VABuckeye 2472]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Glad you tossed in a casual reference to the odds being stacked against them. But otherwise, I’ll put you in the “black people really don’t experience material discrimination, and anything bad that happens to them is their fault” category.

Fuck off. That isn’t what I said or alluded to and you know it.  You’re more worried about proving your point and your “side” than trying to reach resolution.  

[Doc Reeves 6434]

17 minutes ago, slorch said:

You’re right.   Nobody has a chance these days, and most certainly the black man has been summarily dismissed from  our society.

I’m more speaking in terms of the actual history of our US financial and mortgage system.

saying “welp the shit stacked against you” is the entire point. People of any race deserve a fair shake from their government. period.

 

the bottom line is lots of people feel like they don’t owe anything to anyone, and they may be right. The government, however, does. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Doc Reeves

[immortal13 4059]

27 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nope. But folks who feel otherwise have been outvoted, consistently.

That's a liberal lie. Be smarter than that. Also take that nonsense to the Cloak Room where it belongs

[Hate 20104]

Here is the first possible step in the right direction.  It's only a matter of time now and long overdue.  Legalize it, commute all possession offenders that have no violent crimes, and ex-sponge any arrests or prison sentences from all of their records.

 

https://www.insider.com/house-of-representatives-will-vote-on-marijuana-legalization-next-month-2020-8

[workswithseed 2037]

34 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

that's your problem...you just want to categorize people

Authoritarians usually like to categorize people.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Hear any similarities?

 

[Brothahorn 10085]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

The same amount that happened from voting and waiting on elected officials to act.

The same amount that happened from a peaceful demonstration by athletes.

The same amount that happened from peaceful marches over the years.

None. Because that’s how we want it. There is no right path for black people. Whatever they do will be vilified, they will be demonized, and treated like contemptible shit. Same as always.

Generalizations like this are just a ridiculous as denying that there are problems. No matter how well intended. Going the teenage drama king/queen route makes people tone deaf to what you are saying.

And that's as nice as I can be about it.

[bad_teammate 13137]

31 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

Hear any similarities?

It's very boring, history. Very little new, just variations on a theme.

[Brisketexan 104707]

Are the odds that much different for poor white people, or poor Hispanics?  

Actually, yes. There’s a good bit of evidence that adjusting for other factors (like wealth, or education), whites will materially out-earn a black person (same goes for Hispanics, although not as severe).

And we all know that driving while black is a thing - much more likely to have an unprompted encounter with law enforcement.

I really don’t understand why it’s so hard to admit that we still have material systemic racism here. Yes, it can be overcome...but it shouldn’t have to be.

[Brisketexan 104707]

Generalizations like this are just a ridiculous as denying that there are problems. No matter how well intended. Going the teenage drama king/queen route makes people tone deaf to what you are saying.
And that's as nice as I can be about it.

Huh. I guess I imagined the exact same people saying “we have no problem with peaceful protests!” also calling Kapernick and those who joined him every name in the book, and telling him to GTFO of America, etc. As just one example.

I guess I just imagined the video of public reactions to a man peacefully holding a black lives matter sign in an Arkansas town. They were not, umm, friendly.

These are not little isolated things - it’s not just one or two people. They’re person after person, significant numbers of people. And those are just the people who are vocal. The subtle racism of the exec not even considering the resume of a candidate with a black or Hispanic sounding name is even bigger.

Come on, man. We’re even arguing about this shit? Seriously?

[Hate 20104]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Here is the first possible step in the right direction.  It's only a matter of time now and long overdue.  Legalize it, commute all possession offenders that have no violent crimes, and ex-sponge any arrests or prison sentences from all of their records.

 

https://www.insider.com/house-of-representatives-will-vote-on-marijuana-legalization-next-month-2020-8

Since everyone here wants to talk about anything other than what can be done to fix the problem (thus proving the point that riots make the general public lose focus), I'd also support the following:

1.  for all the aforementioned non violent possession offenders I would support that a part of the taxes collected from sales be redirected to the offenders in a monthly stipend and/or job training/education. 

2.  I would also keep the "prison" budget the same and turn those now empty cells into rehab centers for non violent drug offenders (cocaine, meth, heroin, etc).

[Guest]

If it's legal, and yes I support legalization, who exactly would these offenders be who you are proposing receive a stipend? 

[Nicole44 22028]

Geez. Y’all try to be a woman. 
We’re the originator of sin, according to the Bible. All over the world women are treated as second class citizens. If you say anything about it you’re a ball busting bitch. If your submissive and quiet that’s how it’s supposed to be. Most women are only allowed in countries to be a spouse/mother. That’s our only value. Even here with the #metoo movement (though it has spiraled out of control in some ways) people (Ahem men) were very quick to attack it. Even on this board there are so many quick to dismiss a rape allegation as likely false or made up (unless it is against athletes from colleges we don’t like-then those colleges are a cesspool for rapists). It’s not like y’all stood with any of the women there you just wanted that football program to fail. 
 

I may be white but I have some understanding of why the BLM protests are so important and valuable.  I also believe the nightly riots we have had are not helping the cause. They are not aiding the cause. Taking away from it. Not deligitimizing it.

If my fellow females banded together across the world (which would never happen because large groups of women do not get along—they can’t) and decided to start burning down cities across the globe would any of you support us? If a women in Africa who had her private parts mutilated by men started a movement would you care? Would you support it? If a woman who escaped the Taliban came over here and started a peaceful protest would you stand with her? 
 

I ask this because I see the pain and anguish that POC are going through in this country. People who are trying to make a difference. Doing everything they can to change things. Then I see the nightly riots and I become both sad and angry. To watch people choosing to destroy things. And now lives are being lost. 
To watch people come to a riot in progress with the hopes of destroying more shit I’d also disgusting. I believe in my heart that most people are good. I know we aren’t born hating each other. You are taught and or learn that your treatment of another person is acceptable. That your beliefs about them are acceptable. No need to get to know anyone we all know everyone by a stereotype we are happy to brand them with. 
 

TLDR: I think rioters are assholes. Anyone coming to a riot to cause more shit is an asshole. And if women started a movement across the globe for better treatment  y’all probably wouldn’t give a fuck. 

[Hate 20104]

23 minutes ago, slorch said:

If it's legal, and yes I support legalization, who exactly would these offenders be who you are proposing receive a stipend? 

The no violent offenders that have been in jail for possession.  I'd support a stipend from the tax dollars from sales for lost wages during their incarceration. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

The no violent offenders that have been in jail for possession.  I'd support a stipend from the tax dollars from sales for lost wages during their incarceration. 

If they can prove they lost a job, I guess I might be persuaded.

They knew it was illegal right?   Many other people avoid it for work in the current situation.   I don't feel we owe em shit.

[Hate 20104]

I understand that line of thinking even if I disagree.  I'd have zero problem with those offenders being paid lost wages and supported for trade school or college if they so choose.  What they do after that is completely up to them.  But one of the biggest wins in this scenario is the actual treatment of addicts in what would have been "rooms" used for prisoners. 

[StruggleBus 3922]

20 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

TLDR: I think rioters are assholes. Anyone coming to a riot to cause more shit is an asshole. And if women started a movement across the globe for better treatment  y’all probably wouldn’t give a fuck. 

As an airplane is about to crash, a female passenger jumps up frantically and announces, "If I'm going to die, I want to die feeling like a woman." She removes all her clothing and asks, "Is there someone on this plane who is man enough to make me feel like a woman?" A man stands up, removes his shirt and says, "Here, iron this!".

[Nicole44 22028]

19 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

As an airplane is about to crash, a female passenger jumps up frantically and announces, "If I'm going to die, I want to die feeling like a woman." She removes all her clothing and asks, "Is there someone on this plane who is man enough to make me feel like a woman?" A man stands up, removes his shirt and says, "Here, iron this!".

Sorry I hit the wrong rep button. I meant to pos rep.

[Nicole44 22028]

29 minutes ago, Hate said:

I understand that line of thinking even if I disagree.  I'd have zero problem with those offenders being paid lost wages and supported for trade school or college if they so choose.  What they do after that is completely up to them.  But one of the biggest wins in this scenario is the actual treatment of addicts in what would have been "rooms" used for prisoners. 

1. Juvenile offenders (for the most part) should not be sentenced like adults.

2. Drug offenses shouldn’t be lifelong ones. Most are addicts or dealers but haven’t done anything remotely to deserve a life sentence.

3. Outreach programs for those that leave. Mandatory to help them acclimate to society. After watching that damn dateline the other night a man was sentenced a month before Kennedy was murdered and there was a program and an apartment for him to ease back into society. Can you even fucking imagine? He’d been in jail a month before JFK was killed. Got out this past year.

4. More programs in prison geared towards a skill set they can use.

5. Compassionate release for those in prison hospice care should be considered more often than it currently is. 
 

I have a stance on certain violent offenders. Some never deserve to get out. But the vast majority of inmates—yes they should receive punishment but it should be about rehabilitation. It should be about how to better themselves. Some people deserve punishment. We all know this. Like the BTK killer. Study his ass and then use him like a monkey for animal testing products. I’m cool with that. 

 

[Enchubben 5509]

The Kenosha shooting thread sure has taken a weird turn.