Several shot during 3rd night of Kenosha riots

[Hate 20104]

The Kenosha shooting thread sure has taken a weird turn. 

Probably my fault. I got tired of hearing the same old bullshit. We all want change, but here we are 3 months after a polarizing event back to where we started. It’s almost as if all of the rioting is making our country lose focus on the necessary changes that most people agreed needed to be made in the wake of George Floyd.

[Captainant 27479]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

Probably my fault. I got tired of hearing the same old bullshit. We all want change, but here we are 3 months after a polarizing event back to where we started. It’s almost as if all of the rioting is making our country lose focus on the necessary changes that most people agreed needed to be made in the wake of George Floyd.

Yeah, it's losing the message - NOT that there's a structural injustice baked into policing that won't change without wide-sweeping reforms. Nevermind the active encouragement of violence against protesters by local and federal law enforcement 

[Hate 20104]

I didn’t say there wasn’t and acknowledged change needed to be made. But rather than the country discussing what can be done, we are still talking past each other with the same bullshit we were talking about 3 months ago.

[Poe It Up 126]

6 hours ago, Hate said:

I didn’t say there wasn’t and acknowledged change needed to be made. But rather than the country discussing what can be done, we are still talking past each other with the same bullshit we were talking about 3 months ago.

One thing to keep in mind is that people like captainantifa don’t mind the violence because it furthers their political aims. They’ll feign displeasure at the tactics to be sure, but it’s complete and utter bullshit. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by blacklab
vacation for cr shit, no one cares about your opinions of teams here

[BabaYaga 15214]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

13 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Are the odds that much different for poor white people, or poor Hispanics?  

There’s a good bit of evidence that adjusting for other factors (like wealth, or education), whites will materially out-earn a black person (same goes for Hispanics, although not as severe).

lol....

[Brisketexan 104705]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

lol....

You're laughing, because I don't think that you get what "adjusting for wealth" means.  It means that if you take a black person and a white person of similar wealth (or poverty).....then the white people get statistically better outcomes.

So, that phrase means the exact opposite of the point you think you're making.  Which is pretty on-brand, actually.

[BabaYaga 15214]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You're laughing, because I don't think that you get what "adjusting for wealth" means.  It means that if you take a black person and a white person of similar wealth (or poverty).....then the white people get statistically better outcomes.

So, that phrase means the exact opposite of the point you think you're making.  Which is pretty on-brand, actually.

I know what it means dick bag.  I'm laughing because you think it means more than it does.  Most of those studies look at the end result and extrapolate a loose correlation solely on race and rarely factor in other variables such as household structures, family dynamics, etc.  The studies diverge on race alone, then miraculously converge back when you include non-marital birth rates, having a single parent, and marriage rates.  

[Brisketexan 104705]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

I know what it means dick bag.  I'm laughing because you think it means more than it does.  Most of those studies look at the end result and extrapolate a loose correlation solely on race and rarely factor in other variables such as household structures, family dynamics, etc.  The studies diverge on race alone, then miraculously converge back when you include non-marital birth rates, having a single parent, and marriage rates.  

Cool.  So, like, the blind studies with the same resume, just changing the name to reflect race, resulting in white names getting better treatment -- they're fake.  As just one example.

I do love that we're finally being honest though.  The REAL problem with BLM is that they're bitching about something that isn't a real problem, and to the extent there is any problem, it's entirely their fault, because they're lazy and make bad choices and whatnot.  It's good that we're getting that truth out in the open.

Because that tells us the core truth -- when y'all tell us you are okay with peaceful protests, that's not true.  You don't support ANY protest, because those black folks have nothing to bitch about except stuff that's their own damned fault.  This is good.  Cathartic, even.

[Gourmand 7774]

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

One thing to keep in mind is that people like captainantifa don’t mind the violence because it furthers their political aims. They’ll feign displeasure at the tactics to be sure, but it’s complete and utter bullshit. 

project much? thanks for adding to the discussion with that brilliant Trumpian bullshit. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The REAL problem with BLM is that they're bitching about something that isn't a real problem, and to the extent there is any problem, it's entirely their fault, because they're lazy and make bad choices and whatnot.  It's good that we're getting that truth out in the open.

The only person saying this is you.  What we are saying is that there has to be personal accountability as well.  This is true of whites, blacks, Hispanics and everyone else in the world.  But no, you keep blaming everything on the system and whites and draw your conclusions.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I know what it means dick bag.  I'm laughing because you think it means more than it does.  Most of those studies look at the end result and extrapolate a loose correlation solely on race and rarely factor in other variables such as household structures, family dynamics, etc.  The studies diverge on race alone, then miraculously converge back when you include non-marital birth rates, having a single parent, and marriage rates.  

what studies specifically?

[BabaYaga 15214]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Because that tells us the core truth -- when y'all tell us you are okay with peaceful protests, that's not true.  You don't support ANY protest, because those black folks have nothing to bitch about except stuff that's their own damned fault.  This is good.  Cathartic, even.

I fucking participated in one of the peaceful protests here in Frisco.  With all my black, white, brown, and yellow neighbors.  Jesus you are full on eating at the whole goddamn buffet of dicks now.  

[bad_teammate 13137]

9 hours ago, slorch said:

I don't feel we owe em shit.

This is kind of a deeper ideological issue, because it gets to the root of what our goals are. Is our goal with public policy to enforce some kind of fuzzy universal concept of "fairness" or is our goal with public policy to solve problems and build a better society?

Because the reality is that what works doesn't always align with what feels right to you.

An extreme hypothetical: If giving every pedophile $50M and exonerating them from any past abuse cured their pedophilia and, once all of them across the country were paid out of public dollars, ended pedophilia forever, would you vote for that? Or would "I don't feel we owe em shit" be the ruling motivation?

Do you want a better world or do you want to feel vindicated?

[bad_teammate 13137]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

I fucking participated in one of the peaceful protests here in Frisco.  With all my black, white, brown, and yellow neighbors.  Jesus you are full on eating at the whole goddamn buffet of dicks now.  

The only question that matters: If those same people asked you to march with them peacefully again, would you?

[dcar00 14036]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I fucking participated in one of the peaceful protests here in Frisco.  With all my black, white, brown, and yellow neighbors.  Jesus you are full on eating at the whole goddamn buffet of dicks now.  

I see you left out your green and purple neighbors, you racist.

we are all good with peaceful permitted protests such that there is some organization and keeps the general public safe and aware.  usually these go off without a hitch and have over many decades. there are certainly folks that are fine if protests  devolve into rioting.

[Poe It Up 126]

7 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

project much? thanks for adding to the discussion with that brilliant Trumpian bullshit. 

What the fuck does that have to do with Trump? You nerds just can't help yourselves. 

[cabowabo 4453]

SIAP

[52-80 19101]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Actually, yes. There’s a good bit of evidence that adjusting for other factors (like wealth, or education), whites will materially out-earn a black person (same goes for Hispanics, although not as severe).

Aren't you a 1st or 2nd generation Hispanic American? 

 

If i'm right, what sort of discrimination did you face in your life?  and what could society have done to rectify it?

 

What im getting at is realistic, net-positive, actionable things, rather than just empty rhetoric

[Brisketexan 104705]

31 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

The only person saying this is you.  What we are saying is that there has to be personal accountability as well.  This is true of whites, blacks, Hispanics and everyone else in the world.  But no, you keep blaming everything on the system and whites and draw your conclusions.

But as a citizen, I have little say in what any given individual person does.  I have a much greater say in what institutions, like GOVERNMENT institutions, that literally work for me do.

The problem with our approach is that it has been used, for decades, as a prerequisite and functional bar to institutional reform.  "Why should we address any supposed systemic issues until all black people make the best choices?"  It's functioned like a "literacy test" at the polls -- we hold black people to a standard we don't even hold the rest of society to before we'll take them seriously.  It's an excuse.

I don't blame the system alone for any individual failures or outcomes.  But I don't look at perfect individual accountability as a prerequisite for addressing our significantly broken systems.

[Dahobbs 17454]

14 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Aren't you a 1st or 2nd generation Hispanic American? 

 

If i'm right, what sort of discrimination did you face in your life?  and what could society have done to rectify it?

 

What im getting at is realistic, net-positive, actionable things, rather than just empty rhetoric

Not have cops be dicks to/shoot at minorities would be a good start? Is that not actionable? Or do you think that is empty rhetoric? 

I mean fuck, I'm mostly white, but even my family has dealt with discrimination due to Asian heritage on my Dad's side. My Grandmother had to deal with the Chinese Exclusion Act during World War II. And my dad has had plenty of nasty things said to him over the years, including things said in front of us as kids. 

 

[VABuckeye 2472]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

But as a citizen, I have little say in what any given individual person does.  I have a much greater say in what institutions, like GOVERNMENT institutions, that literally work for me do.

The problem with our approach is that it has been used, for decades, as a prerequisite and functional bar to institutional reform.  "Why should we address any supposed systemic issues until all black people make the best choices?"  It's functioned like a "literacy test" at the polls -- we hold black people to a standard we don't even hold the rest of society to before we'll take them seriously.  It's an excuse.

I don't blame the system alone for any individual failures or outcomes.  But I don't look at perfect individual accountability as a prerequisite for addressing our significantly broken systems.

And that is fair.

[Brisketexan 104705]

39 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Aren't you a 1st or 2nd generation Hispanic American? 

 

If i'm right, what sort of discrimination did you face in your life?  and what could society have done to rectify it?

 

What im getting at is realistic, net-positive, actionable things, rather than just empty rhetoric

I've told the story of my father's encounter with E. Texas law enforcement back in the day.  We thought he was dead, until the jailer he had bribed with $20 he managed to slip into his shoe called us to tell us "your dad is alive, and in jail in XYZ, Texas. [click]"  

His bruises took weeks to fade.

My father, a professional engineer.  A man who hardly drinks, arrested for "DWI" and beaten senseless on his way back from engineering inspections out of state.

The FBI even contacted us about their investigation -- instead of cooperating, my father chose to yield to the leverage of the false charges levied by the crooked cop, and agree to drop his complaint in exchange for the DWI charge being dropped, so that he could keep his job (he'd have been fired if he was convicted of a DWI while on duty, which he was as he was driving home from work).  Crooked cops in a crooked county have all the leverage -- think my dad would have gotten far with his defense of completely fabricated evidence (e.g., they swore to a breathalyzer result....he never even submitted to a breathalyzer) in XYZ county?  He just wanted to get out with his life and livelihood intact.

Most minority families I know have some story or another that could go in that book.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Brisketexan

[52-80 19101]

19 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Not have cops be dicks to/shoot at minorities would be a good start? Is that not actionable?

Just like that huh?  And if I suggested not to have a history of domestic violence and not to wrestle folks in public, you wouldn't get shot, is that fair?

Funny how that's what both of the diseased have in common, even though their skin color are different.

 

 

[clapclapclap 9000]

#Organic

 

Check out how a Seattle former news paper spun it:

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by clapclapclap

[dcar00 14036]

12 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

#Organic

 

Check out how a Seattle former news paper spun it:

 

Riot Kitchen, got to admit that is a clever cover. "Get ya tear gas heyah!, get ya hot piping gas masks! get ya fireworks and gas cans right heyah! step right up, all you need for a good clean riot!"

[clapclapclap 9000]

On 8/27/2020 at 4:59 PM, clapclapclap said:

And today in DC a peaceful protest with totally peaceful intentions has set up a guillotine in front of Jeff Bezos house.  But it's only about seeking racial equality and racial justice, right?

 

 

On 8/27/2020 at 5:20 PM, Pancho said:

Did you read what they were protesting and why?  It’s not clear why you mentioned racial equality and justice in this post. 

The article failed to mention that a BLM type group (likely funded in part from the same network of shell organizations used to get around laws against tax-exempt 501c3 nonprofits engaging in politic campaigning) also sponsored the event:

https://palmcollective.org/

FOUNDED ON THE FRONTLINES OF THE PROTESTS PROMPTED BY THE KILLINGS OF GEORGE FLOYD, BREONNA TAYLOR, AND AHMAUD ARBERY, THE PALM COLLECTIVE IS A BLACK LED ORGANIZATION THAT SEEKS TO BUILD A COALITION OF GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS IN THE DMV AND BEYOND. WE ARE COMMITTED TO DEMANDING FOREVER CHANGE THAT WILL PUT AN END TO SYSTEMIC RACISM AND BUILDING AN AMERICA THAT IS FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, THROUGH THE POWER OF COLLECTIVE ACTION.

 

Later that night:

That was outside the gates securing the White House Thu. night for the President's speech.  Close to where the guests leaving the event were harassed and swarmed by these 'peaceful protesters.'

 

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by clapclapclap
Don't worry, bad_teammate and Brisket are here, to quickly make 40 more posts saying the same things they've been saying, in order to flip the page and quickly bury this

[bad_teammate 13137]

Helmets and protective vests... good.
Fireworks... meh don't care.
Controlled substances... sorry for partying.

[Dahobbs 17454]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool.  So, like, the blind studies with the same resume, just changing the name to reflect race, resulting in white names getting better treatment -- they're fake.  As just one example.

I do love that we're finally being honest though.  The REAL problem with BLM is that they're bitching about something that isn't a real problem, and to the extent there is any problem, it's entirely their fault, because they're lazy and make bad choices and whatnot.  It's good that we're getting that truth out in the open.

Because that tells us the core truth -- when y'all tell us you are okay with peaceful protests, that's not true.  You don't support ANY protest, because those black folks have nothing to bitch about except stuff that's their own damned fault.  This is good.  Cathartic, even.

 

1 hour ago, VABuckeye said:

The only person saying this is you.  What we are saying is that there has to be personal accountability as well.  This is true of whites, blacks, Hispanics and everyone else in the world.  But no, you keep blaming everything on the system and whites and draw your conclusions.

Uh... see 52-80 below, that is exactly what he is saying.

51 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Not have cops be dicks to/shoot at minorities would be a good start? Is that not actionable? Or do you think that is empty rhetoric? 

I mean fuck, I'm mostly white, but even my family has dealt with discrimination due to Asian heritage on my Dad's side. My Grandmother had to deal with the Chinese Exclusion Act during World War II. And my dad has had plenty of nasty things said to him over the years, including things said in front of us as kids. 

 

 

27 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Just like that huh?  And if I suggested not to have a history of domestic violence and not to wrestle folks in public, you wouldn't get shot, is that fair?

Funny how that's what both of the diseased have in common, even though their skin color are different.

 

 

Wow. Yes, just like that. Police are too prone to use guns/violence in this country, and even more so in encounters with minorities. Of course, your post is one of those "there is no problem or it is the minorities fault" that others above said don't exist. Escalation is their tactic of choice. That needs to change. Another concrete thing we can do is getting rid of no knock warrants entirely. 

[bad_teammate 13137]

No history of domestic violence? Cool, that's the police defunding itself since they beat their wives so much.

[Brisketexan 104705]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

 

Uh... see 52-80 below, that is exactly what he is saying.

 

Wow. Yes, just like that. Police are too prone to use guns/violence in this country, and even more so in encounters with minorities. Of course, your post is one of those "there is no problem or it is the minorities fault" that others above said don't exist. Escalation is their tactic of choice. That needs to change. Another concrete thing we can do is getting rid of no knock warrants entirely. 

The police are also much more likely to CREATE encounters with minorities.  That's a big part  of the problem.  If a given encounter has a 1% chance of going south, statistically.....but cops stop and hassle black people 3X as often as they stop and hassle white people, then black people have 3X the risk of a bad encounter than white people do.  That's where the problem starts.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13417]

30 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

#Organic

 

Check out how a Seattle former news paper spun it:

 

don't get so triggered because a news source doesn't provide every detail in regards to an arrest. I don't even gather that they were arrested for the items you mention.

[Helobious 9483]

Riot Kitchen will be the name of my next metal band 

[Cajun 11675]

48 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I've told the story of my father's encounter with E. Texas law enforcement back in the day.  We thought he was dead, until the jailer he had bribed with $20 he managed to slip into his shoe called us to tell us "your dad is alive, and in jail in XYZ, Texas. [click]"  

His bruises took weeks to fade.

My father, a professional engineer.  A man who hardly drinks, arrested for "DWI" and beaten senseless on his way back from engineering inspections out of state.

The FBI even contacted us about their investigation -- instead of cooperating, my father chose to yield to the leverage of the false charges levied by the crooked cop, and agree to drop his complaint in exchange for the DWI charge being dropped, so that he could keep his job (he'd have been fired if he was convicted of a DWI while on duty, which he was as he was driving home from work).  Crooked cops in a crooked county have all the leverage -- think my dad would have gotten far with his defense of completely fabricated evidence (e.g., they swore to a breathalyzer result....he never even submitted to a breathalyzer) in XYZ county?  He just wanted to get out with his life and livelihood intact.

Most minority families I know have some story or another that could go in that book.

I'm white as a Twinkie and I have a story not far from that.  Kerr County.  Stems from a custody battle and an ex who has good friends amongst KPD.

[Cajun 11675]

16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

 

Uh... see 52-80 below, that is exactly what he is saying.

 

Wow. Yes, just like that. Police are too prone to use guns/violence in this country, and even more so in encounters with minorities. Of course, your post is one of those "there is no problem or it is the minorities fault" that others above said don't exist. Escalation is their tactic of choice. That needs to change. Another concrete thing we can do is getting rid of no knock warrants entirely. 

That, thankfully, is happening quickly.

[Brisketexan 104705]

2 minutes ago, Cajun said:

I'm white as a Twinkie and I have a story not far from that.  Kerr County.  Stems from a custody battle and an ex who has good friends amongst KPD.

Yep.  Make no mistake, the cops are shitbags with respect to everyone.....but we all know that minorities both 1) get the gift of more interactions with the cops, because "boy, what are you doin' round here?", and 2) get a shitload less benefit of the doubt in those interactions.

On a per capita basis, minorities have materially higher odds of an experience with law enforcement being shitbags.  But again, that's not an exclusive, members-only deal by any means -- cops can be and are shitty and abusive to all citizens, who are beneath them and should respect their authoritah.

[fattyflattie 4636]

51 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Funny how that's what both of the diseased have in common, even though their skin color are different.

Racist imo. 

[52-80 19101]

10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Wow. Yes, just like that. Police are too prone to use guns/violence in this country, and even more so in encounters with minorities. Of course, your post is one of those "there is no problem or it is the minorities fault" that others above said don't exist. Escalation is their tactic of choice. That needs to change. Another concrete thing we can do is getting rid of no knock warrants entirely. 

I'm for mandatory body cams.  I'm for eliminating no knock warrants.  I'm for independent investigative departments.  I'm for financial burden of misconduct shifted from public pocket closer to the offending parties. I'm for loosening of drug laws.

 

I'm for all of that.

 

What I'm not for is championing deadbeats, and justifying looting and rioting on the basis of deadbeats, and villifying everyone who doesn't side with deadbeats.

 

You know how they say luck is the product of preparation meeting opportunity?  It seems misfortune is the product of criminals and bad conduct.  

 

Amazing coincidence.

 

Floyd was murdered.  Convict Chauvin.  I'm not sure how burning down Minnesota and Oregon is going to bring him back to life.

 

 

[Cajun 11675]

@Brisketexan

Well, I am named after this guy, so perhaps that should be factored in ...

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Cajun

[Brisketexan 104705]

5 minutes ago, Cajun said:

@Brisketexan

Well, I am named after this guy, so perhaps that should be factored in ...

 

Sheeeit.....the only thing black about you is your credit score, courtesy of The Man.

[bad_teammate 13137]

7 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

What I'm not for is championing deadbeats, and justifying looting and rioting on the basis of deadbeats, and villifying everyone who doesn't side with deadbeats.

I don't know what "championing deadbeats" means. I don't know what "justifying looting and rioting" means.

I don't know of anyone here who likes rioting and looting. As far as I know, none of us participate in it and we don't encourage anyone else to do it. The most I see here is people saying, "I understand why they do it", which is a different thing.

I don't know who you guys are actually arguing with, honestly.

[Cajun 11675]

But I do speak Jive!

[Dahobbs 17454]

7 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

You know how they say luck is the product of preparation meeting opportunity?  It seems misfortune is the product of criminals and bad conduct.  

 

Amazing coincidence.

 

Floyd was murdered.  Convict Chauvin.  I'm not sure how burning down Minnesota and Oregon is going to bring him back to life.

 

 

Doubling down I see. Yup, Black people are entirely blame for their negative interactions with cops. 

Floyd was murdered. Convict Chauvin. But you skip how there is near certainty that absent the protests and publicity surrounding the murder, Chauvin would not only NOT be convicted, he wouldn't have even been charged. He'd probably just have gotten a paid vacation out of the deal. 

Violence doesn't help Floyd. Violence doesn't solve the problem of injustice. I have no problems with prosecuting anyone who becomes violent or destructive. But, angry people are a symptom of an unjust system. Angry people commit violence. Fix the unjust system and you reduce the violence. Ignore the unjust system and you all but guarantee further violence. Using the anger to justify ignoring the very real problems with the system is self-defeating unless of course your goal is an authoritarian crack down. 

[Incredulity 11563]

Hey, you know what they say: see a broad to get dat booty yak 'em...

 ...leg 'er down a smack 'em yak 'em!

 COL' got to be! Y'know? Shiiiiit.

[52-80 19101]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Doubling down I see. Yup, Black people are entirely blame for their negative interactions with cops.

You made this equivalence, but it's the rest of us who are racist, right?

[atomheartbevo 89465]

5 hours ago, Enchubben said:

The Kenosha shooting thread sure has taken a weird turn. 

I see that you also want to hear more about this naked woman on the airplane.

[Cajun 11675]

Looks like owner insurance shenanigans to me.

[fattyflattie 4636]

What's the Bezos hate/guillotine situation?  Because he's rich, he needs to die?  Or is he pro-police or something I haven't seen?

[Dahobbs 17454]

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

You made this equivalence, but it's the rest of us who are racist, right?

What?

[bad_teammate 13137]

4 minutes ago, Cajun said:

Looks like owner insurance shenanigans to me.

Not unheard of.

[bolverk 29416]

2 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

#Organic

 

Check out how a Seattle former news paper spun it:

 

You should know now to actually read the original article. Otherwise you risk coming across as a jackass.

Here's the relevant passage within the article:

The Kenosha Police Department tweeted that a citizen tip was received about several suspicious vehicles with out-of-state plates meeting in a remote lot. Police said in the statement: “Acting on this information Kenosha Police Officers located the suspicious vehicles and took up surveillance. Kenosha Police were assisted by the United States Marshals.”

Police say that they made nine arrests for disorderly conduct from three vehicles that included the school bus, the minivan and a bread truck. They say they observed the occupants of the bus and bread truck exit to fill multiple fuel cans.

Scheurle said that any cans filled with fuel would have been for legitimate uses, such as generators used in serving meals.

Police, who said the officers wore appropriate identification, said the minivan attempted to drive away, but that the police ultimately “forced entry” into the vehicle.

Police said the vehicles also contained helmets, gas masks, protective vests, illegal fireworks and suspected controlled substances.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/police-federal-agents-arrest-seattle-based-riot-kitchen-crew-that-stopped-in-kenosha-to-serve-free-food/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_inset_1.1