Several shot during 3rd night of Kenosha riots

[DDD Dad 14359]

13 minutes ago, elfenix said:

this is the DT thread

The parade DT thread.

[workswithseed 2123]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

The parade DT thread.

[immortal13 4059]

46 minutes ago, Hate said:

Why did he only shoot the 3 that attacked him?  He had more than ample opportunity to shoot at least 30 "looters" or "rioters" but did not.  It's a fact that you keep on glossing over.  And for the record, I am fine if they don't allow that parade idiot's video and social media posts as evidence.  I think there is more than ample evidence that he is guilty without it.  Who cares if he gets charged with a hate crime? 

It was all part of his master plan, bro

Edited November 23, 2021 by immortal13

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

21 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Context is important in this case, because it is widely used by communities of all kinds on a number of platforms. There will always be people that try to use people's creations/characters in a hateful way

This. The context is incredibly important and it's why becoming aware that there are still people who use it for hate is important too. It doesn't mean you're giving Pepe back to hateful people to call it out, IMO, but what one doesn't want to do is get pulled into the coded agreement of a dogwhistle. The whole: what? it's just a frog derailment that takes away from the initial argument that people were debating about. Which, I suppose is what I did and derailed the thread.

[immortal13 4059]

1 hour ago, Bravo said:

me too. I just googled it. Is it an angry frog that is racist? Am I getting that?

So did I. Ive only seen the character used here on Surly, and I'm still not sure how or why a frog is being used as a symbol for racism or anything else for that matter. It's a fucking frog

[Guest Lobo]

3 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

So did I. Ive only seen the character used here on Surly, and I'm still not sure how or why a frog is being used as a symbol for racism or anything else for that matter. It's a fucking frog

And it's just a yellow puppet that looks like a bird that's the subject of a U.S. Senate investigation.  Are you new to America or something?  We get riled up over pretend shit every day around here.  

[immortal13 4059]

Just now, Lobo said:

And it's just a yellow puppet that looks like a bird that's the subject of a U.S. Senate investigation.  Are you new to America or something?  We get riled up over pretend shit every day around here.  

Yellow bird puppet?

[Guest Lobo]

Okay, not puppet.  Muppet(tm), i guess.  I dunno, I'm new to aviary fisting.

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

Okay, not puppet.  Muppet(tm), i guess.  I dunno, I'm new to aviary fisting.

I have no clue what you're talking about, but that's about half the time anyway lol

[DDD Dad 14359]

9 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

So did I. Ive only seen the character used here on Surly, and I'm still not sure how or why a frog is being used as a symbol for racism or anything else for that matter. It's a fucking frog

It's just someone saying, "ok" or celebrating a three point basket.

Let's go Brandon!

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

It's just someone saying, "ok" or celebrating a three point basket.

Let's go Brandon!

 

[DDD Dad 14359]

Just now, immortal13 said:

 

Exactly.

[hayden_horn 11365]

6 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

 

see, that's the problem with the dissembling. it's the same thing with the confederate battle flag. "what's wrong with southern heritage?" yeah, it's been hijacked. pepe was hijacked, and while the guy went to war to fight about his creation, but pepe and reeeee have very specific online meanings.

i've said it so many times on here, but online racists have tons of codespeak. yeah, "okay" is ok, but there is no doubt that people who are white supremacists use certain language to play in between the lines and self-identify with each other. happens here on this board. 

[Guest Lobo]

It's like Gordon Gecko said in "Wall Street 2: Money Never Sleeps"..........A moron always sees another moron from afar.  

There is absolutely dogwhistle language people use to signal to one another.  I kept hearing that term in the media for years when certain politicians would speak and I didn't really pick up on it.  Then I started noticing it on this very site and realized it was true and is much more ubiquitous in real life than I let myself see.  I can only imagine how much more blatant it is on other sites/social media to which I dare not wander. 

[DDD Dad 14359]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

happens here on this board. 

Every. Single. Day.

[immortal13 4059]

4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

see, that's the problem with the dissembling. it's the same thing with the confederate battle flag. "what's wrong with southern heritage?" yeah, it's been hijacked. pepe was hijacked, and while the guy went to war to fight about his creation, but pepe and reeeee have very specific online meanings.

i've said it so many times on here, but online racists have tons of codespeak. yeah, "okay" is ok, but there is no doubt that people who are white supremacists use certain language to play in between the lines and self-identify with each other. happens here on this board. 

I understand what you're saying. But I still don't get the whole Pepe thing. Why would anyone adopt that as a symbol for anything ...it's a fucking frog lol

[Captainant 27853]

5 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i've said it so many times on here, but online racists have tons of codespeak. yeah, "okay" is ok, but there is no doubt that people who are white supremacists use certain language to play in between the lines and self-identify with each other. happens here on this board. 

It's frustrating that the mods on this site don't all understand and know that, so they give cover to the people speaking code in DT and give timeouts to people who call them out on it because then its political.

[elfenix 34341]

i would posit that the southern battle flag has only ever had one meaning. 

[elfenix 34341]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

It's frustrating that the mods on this site don't all understand and know that, so they give cover to the people speaking code in DT and give timeouts to people who call them out on it because then its political.

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, elfenix said:

i would posit that the southern battle flag has only ever had one meaning. 

Surrender?

[immortal13 4059]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's frustrating that the mods on this site don't all understand and know that, so they give cover to the people speaking code in DT and give timeouts to people who call them out on it because then its political.

Rule violation. Reported

[Captainant 27853]

Just now, elfenix said:

let me rephrase: not all of the mods of this site understand or recognize it

[Hate 20149]

2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's frustrating that the mods on this site don't all understand and know that, so they give cover to the people speaking code in DT and give timeouts to people who call them out on it because then its political.

Can you please post an example of this in DT?  I'm not saying it doesn't occur, but I am apparently completely naive about it because I've never seen it. 

[Azbadlands 109]

50 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Because he’s smart enough to know that’s outright murder?  

I honestly don’t know that KR went there with the intent to shoot anyone. I can’t credit him that level of serial killer forethought. His video is probably posturing, like a lot of shit people post to social media. I do think he enjoyed the gun posturing and warrior cosplay culture and became the proverbial dog that caught the car. I hope that he has PTSD about it, because the alternative is he’s a fucking psycopath.

Rosenbaum was an idiot and FAFO, no question. I have a similar question about him. Why didn’t he attack any of the other guys walking around with ARs when he had ample opportunity to do so?  What triggered him to go after KR specifically? Is it as simple as KR looking like a toddler with a gun and he thought he could take the gun without KR doing shit about it? Was there more interaction between the two that didn’t get recorded? Was he just that fucking crazy? Charging someone with a rifle isn’t a casual decision. I doubt that was the first time that Rosenbaum’s vandalism was thwarted that evening, so I find it odd that KR putting out a fire was what made him to decide to attack. 

Maybe KR was a responsible gun owner and took a self defense training course.. 

 He's not some kind of criminal mastermind, the kid just beat what were BS charges to begin with.  Why do you think the prosecutors looked like total morons?  They had nothing, never should have even brought the charges or took this to trial based on the evidence they had.  They rushed to file charges before even having time to review the evidence and talk to witnesses.  It was all F'd up from the beginning..They even tried to cover up the fact they knew one of the witnesses names that the Defense was looking for because the witness would have hurt the prosecutions case even further...

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Azbadlands

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

The linkage is that steve bannon used gamergate to radicalize angry young incels into the trump shitposting army that made up /r/the_donald and the various 4chan boards. Those 4chan boards eventually spawned qanon, which later migrated to 8chan/kun.

It's a real weird lineage, but it's actually pretty well documented. May be another interesting thread if it doesn't get immediately derailed from people not reading past the headline.

edit: and on Pepe, the creator actually had to go to court to stop the alt-right from using his art for hate

 

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I disagree with your disagreement. Pepe is still being used by the far right groups and with Gab (the cartooned version of a little green frog because you know, plausible yada yada) the Gab creater reposted these on his personal page. Following the links to other accounts, whew, I'm not going to post that on this site even behind a spoiler. As it is, I'm going to put the cartoon behind a spoiler. It isn't specifically Pepe, but notice the hooked nose in the first panel--it's intentional. Many of these accounts are still using Pepe in the avatar, or referring to Pepe and the lingo around him--frens, etc. ( VDARE is very far right) and after awhile I stopped counting and decided to just put the three here.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

So did I. Ive only seen the character used here on Surly, and I'm still not sure how or why a frog is being used as a symbol for racism or anything else for that matter. It's a fucking frog

It was posted upthread. There are links

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's frustrating that the mods on this site don't all understand and know that, so they give cover to the people speaking code in DT and give timeouts to people who call them out on it because then its political.

It’s a big reason I don’t even read or post in DT anymore. Let them have their safe space. It’s not worth my time to call out the hypocrisy. 

[immortal13 4059]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s a big reason I don’t even read or post in DT anymore. Let them have their safe space. It’s not worth my time to call out the hypocrisy. 

We are all ok with your decision

[Captainant 27853]

4 minutes ago, Hate said:

Can you please post an example of this in DT?  I'm not saying it doesn't occur, but I am apparently completely naive about it because I've never seen it. 

the CHAZ/CHOP/portland thread was pretty rife with it, as was pretty much any thread covering police brutality and the following civil unrest. A bunch of the posts were deleted, but I'll see if I can find any. Some examples that come to mind (that I owe you links to) are using """journalists""" like andy ngo or jack posobiec as trusted sources, or broadly calling anyone who's out protesting as "ANTIFA" or "BLM RIOTERS!!!" or the other broad brush strokes. 

I'll try to remember to point em out to ya when I see it in DT

[immortal13 4059]

7 minutes ago, Azbadlands said:

Maybe KR was a responsible gun owner and took a self defense training course.. 

 He's not some kind of criminal mastermind, the kid just beat what were BS charges to begin with.  Why do you think the prosecutors looked like total morons?  They had nothing, never should have even brought the charges or took this to trial based on the evidence they had.  They rushed to file charges before even having time to review the evidence and talk to witnesses.  It was all F'd up from the beginning..They even tried to cover up the fact they knew one of the witnesses names that the Defense was looking for because the witness would have hurt the prosecutions case even further...

 

Was the information on the identity of "jump kick man" something the prosecution was required or obligated to share with the defense?

[jimmyjazz 46275]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Why did he only shoot the 3 that attacked him?  He had more than ample opportunity to shoot at least 30 "looters" or "rioters" but did not.  It's a fact that you keep on glossing over.  

So, had he survived, Charles Whitman should have been acquitted, simply because he didn't kill MORE people on the West Mall?

And before you go postal, I'm not equating Kyle Rittenhouse to Charles Whitman.  I'm saying we prosecute people for potentially illegal actions they DID commit, without concern for those potentially illegal actions they DIDN'T commit.

This whole thread is a testament to the clear destruction of American education.  Some of you people really could have benefited from a Civics class.

[immortal13 4059]

4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

the CHAZ/CHOP/portland thread was pretty rife with it, as was pretty much any thread covering police brutality and the following civil unrest. A bunch of the posts were deleted, but I'll see if I can find any. Some examples that come to mind (that I owe you links to) are using """journalists""" like andy ngo or jack posobiec as trusted sources, or broadly calling anyone who's out protesting as "ANTIFA" or "BLM RIOTERS!!!" or the other broad brush strokes. 

I'll try to remember to point em out to ya when I see it in DT

I read this post carefully and found zero examples. And painting with a broad brush is more prevalent in the CR than anywhere else on this board. I can't count the number of times the term "racist" or "fascist" is thrown around, and namely by you. 

[Hate 20149]

6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

the CHAZ/CHOP/portland thread was pretty rife with it, as was pretty much any thread covering police brutality and the following civil unrest. A bunch of the posts were deleted, but I'll see if I can find any. Some examples that come to mind (that I owe you links to) are using """journalists""" like andy ngo or jack posobiec as trusted sources, or broadly calling anyone who's out protesting as "ANTIFA" or "BLM RIOTERS!!!" or the other broad brush strokes. 

I'll try to remember to point em out to ya when I see it in DT

Thanks.  I didn't really ever pay attention to the Portland stuff so I didn't see anything there.  I also don't have any idea who andy ngo or jack posobiec are other than I guess far right knuckehead journalists? 

[Ojo Rojo 1981]

52 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Because he’s smart enough to know that’s outright murder?  

I honestly don’t know that KR went there with the intent to shoot anyone. I can’t credit him that level of serial killer forethought. His video is probably posturing, like a lot of shit people post to social media. I do think he enjoyed the gun posturing and warrior cosplay culture and became the proverbial dog that caught the car. I hope that he has PTSD about it, because the alternative is he’s a fucking psycopath.

Rosenbaum was an idiot and FAFO, no question. I have a similar question about him. Why didn’t he attack any of the other guys walking around with ARs when he had ample opportunity to do so?  What triggered him to go after KR specifically? Is it as simple as KR looking like a toddler with a gun and he thought he could take the gun without KR doing shit about it? Was there more interaction between the two that didn’t get recorded? Was he just that fucking crazy? Charging someone with a rifle isn’t a casual decision. I doubt that was the first time that Rosenbaum’s vandalism was thwarted that evening, so I find it odd that KR putting out a fire was what made him to decide to attack. 

I've seen a mini-documentary breaking down the videos from that night.  It appeared to me that KR was "stationed" at a certain business in the moments leading up to the first shooting.  There was shouting or something that indicated that protesters might be vandalizing a used car lot down the street and KR started running to that scene, apparently to do something about it, whatever that was.  Rosenbaum saw KR running and that's when he started chasing him.  My personal interpretation of what was going through Rosenbaum's head is, "Here goes one of these motherfuckers!"  Rosenbaum was already agitated and seeing one of these armed guys take off running was the switch that got flipped in his head to "do something."

Causation is a series of concentric circles.  If the cops wouldn't have shot Jacob Blake none of this would have happened.  If KR hadn't shown up in Kenosha this wouldn't have happened, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum.  But Rosenbaum was mentally unstable and I think he is the biggest reason this happened. Add a mentally unstable person to an already tense situation along with people like KR, with no training or experience, and it's a powder keg.  It's exactly the reason why, as a policy point, it should be illegal to charge into a protest - of any kind - with weapons and assertions of open carry.  It just doesn't work and is going to end in a lot of avoidable deaths.

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

So, had he survived, Charles Whitman should have been acquitted, simply because he didn't kill MORE people on the West Mall?

And before you go postal, I'm not equating Kyle Rittenhouse to Charles Whitman.  I'm saying we prosecute people for potentially illegal actions they DID commit, without concern for those potentially illegal actions they DIDN'T commit.

This whole thread is a testament to the clear destruction of American education.  Some of you people really could have benefited from a Civics class.

Which one of Charles Whitman's victims attacked him? I must have missed that part of the story....carry on with your excellent analogy

[Hate 20149]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

So, had he survived, Charles Whitman should have been acquitted, simply because he didn't kill MORE people on the West Mall?

And before you go postal, I'm not equating Kyle Rittenhouse to Charles Whitman.  I'm saying we prosecute people for potentially illegal actions they DID commit, without concern for those potentially illegal actions they DIDN'T commit.

This whole thread is a testament to the clear destruction of American education.  Some of you people really could have benefited from a Civics class.

Oh great...the "make up shit" artist is back.  What in the hell is your stupid analogy supposed to even mean?  I stated that if he truly wanted to kill those rioting and looting that he had ample opportunity to do that.  You made up some stupid stuff about Charles Whitman.  Goddamn I should just put your dumb ass on ignore. 

[DDD Dad 14359]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Some of you people really could have benefited from a Civics class.

[jimmyjazz 46275]

The point you idgits refuse to acknowledge is that the alleged crime was KR's shooting of 3 people.  Was it murder or self defense?  That was answered in a Wisconsin courtroom.  Case closed.

The fact that he DIDN'T shoot at other people that night has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he DID shoot at 3 people that night.

Why is this so fucking hard for you?  In parallel, why is it so fucking hard for you to see that there is no justification for shooting convicted or alleged criminals when the shooter has no knowledge of their convictions or alleged crimes?  Hell, even if he DID have knowledge of those things, it's still not his job.  You do realize we have a system of justice, and gun boner boy getting strapped up and killing a pedophile doesn't fall under allowable actions just because the guy was a pedophile?

You people are an embarrassment to UT.

Edited November 23, 2021 by jimmyjazz

[DDD Dad 14359]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

You people are an embarrassment to UT.

[jimmyjazz 46275]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

You got me twice with the same giphy, dammit.

[Ojo Rojo 1981]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The point you idgits refuse to acknowledge is that the alleged crime was KR's shooting of 3 people.  Was it murder or self defense?  That was answered in a Wisconsin courtroom.  Case closed.

The fact that he DIDN'T shoot at other people that night has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he DID shoot at 3 people that night.

Why is this so fucking hard for you?  In parallel, why is it so fucking hard for you to see that there is no justification for shooting convicted or alleged criminals when the shooter has no knowledge of their convictions or alleged crimes?  You do realize we have a system of justice, and gun boner boy getting strapped up and killing a pedophile doesn't fall under allowable actions just because the guy was a pedophile?

You people are an embarrassment to UT.

I think what they are trying to say is that the fact that he didn't kill more people shows that he was not an active shooter or there to commit murder.  I think they are also saying that it further shores up the self defense argument.

[Hate 20149]

Making up shit again.  Goddamn, it's all you do.  Your username should be changed to JimmyStrawman.  When speaking about intent it is perfectly reasonable to point out that he only shot those that attacked him.  If he really just wanted to shoot looters and rioters independent of whether or not they attacked him, then he had ample opportunity to do so.  So therefore you can maybe get through your thick straw head that I am saying I do not think he went there with the intent to shoot anyone and it stands to reason that if the idiot doesn't chase after and attack him that KR does not shoot anyone that night.

[Azbadlands 109]

17 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Was the information on the identity of "jump kick man" something the prosecution was required or obligated to share with the defense?

Yes, the jump kick dude.  

[Guest Lobo]

But what if the CVS was being looted exclusively by pedophiles and he knew they were pedophiles?  Could he shoot more 'em then?  

Oh wait, that's not what I learned in CrimPro in 1L.  

I honestly had no idea that one guy was a child molester until I read it on this thread.  Were I Matt Gaetz, I'd be terrified now that's it open season.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Lobo

[immortal13 4059]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The point you idgits refuse to acknowledge is that the alleged crime was KR's shooting of 3 people.  Was it murder or self defense?  That was answered in a Wisconsin courtroom.  Case closed.

The fact that he DIDN'T shoot at other people that night has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he DID shoot at 3 people that night.

Why is this so fucking hard for you?  In parallel, why is it so fucking hard for you to see that there is no justification for shooting convicted or alleged criminals when the shooter has no knowledge of their convictions or alleged crimes?  Hell, even if he DID have knowledge of those things, it's still not his job.  You do realize we have a system of justice, and gun boner boy getting strapped up and killing a pedophile doesn't fall under allowable actions just because the guy was a pedophile?

You people are an embarrassment to UT.

Lmao at you bro. You are the angriest motherfucker I have ever seen on Surly. Are you under 5' 4" or something?

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, Azbadlands said:

Yes, the jump kick dude.  

That wasn't the question

[Azbadlands 109]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The point you idgits refuse to acknowledge is that the alleged crime was KR's shooting of 3 people.  Was it murder or self defense?  That was answered in a Wisconsin courtroom.  Case closed.

The fact that he DIDN'T shoot at other people that night has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he DID shoot at 3 people that night.

Why is this so fucking hard for you?  In parallel, why is it so fucking hard for you to see that there is no justification for shooting convicted or alleged criminals when the shooter has no knowledge of their convictions or alleged crimes?  Hell, even if he DID have knowledge of those things, it's still not his job.  You do realize we have a system of justice, and gun boner boy getting strapped up and killing a pedophile doesn't fall under allowable actions just because the guy was a pedophile?

You people are an embarrassment to UT.

Those prosecutors let their egos get the best of them and failed miserably...They had no reason to bring the charges they brought, just pure dumbass on their part....Only shot they had was to trip Kyle up on the stand, and when that didn't happen, they were sunk like the Titanic...

Imagine if there had been no video evidence, they might have twisted this kid up bad and put him away.  We should be applauding the fact that our Justice system worked right for once, not shaming the victim for defending himself....

[immortal13 4059]

Just now, Azbadlands said:

Those prosecutors let their egos get the best of them and failed miserably...They had no reason to bring the charges they brought, just pure dumbass on their part....Only shot they had was to trip Kyle up on the stand, and when that didn't happen, they were sunk like the Titanic...

Imagine if there had been no video evidence, they might have twisted this kid up bad and put him away.  We should be applauding the fact that our Justice system worked right for once, not shaming the victim for defending himself....

Do you even play first person war video games, bruh?

[jimmyjazz 46275]

18 minutes ago, Hate said:

Making up shit again.  Goddamn, it's all you do. 

What did I make up?  I don't question the concept that his lack of action against others potentially speaks to intent, but it isn't a foregone conclusion that he MUST have shot at others that night in order for the prosecution to proceed on the shootings he DID commit.  Again, why is this so hard for you?  Why are you so furious, when the trial played out as you wanted it to play out?

[DDD Dad 14359]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

What did I make up?  I don't question the concept that his lack of action against others potentially speaks to intent, but it isn't a foregone conclusion that he MUST have shot at others that night in order for the prosecution to proceed on the shootings he DID commit.  Again, why is this so hard for you?  Why are you so furious, when the trial played out as you wanted it to play out?

Well his handle is "Hate".

[Hate 20149]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

What did I make up?  I don't question the concept that his lack of action against others potentially speaks to intent, but it isn't a foregone conclusion that he MUST have shot at others that night in order for the prosecution to proceed on the shootings he DID commit.  Again, why is this so hard for you?  Why are you so furious, when the trial played out as you wanted it to play out?

This whole paragraph is completely made up of shit I have never once said:

Why is this so fucking hard for you?  In parallel, why is it so fucking hard for you to see that there is no justification for shooting convicted or alleged criminals when the shooter has no knowledge of their convictions or alleged crimes?  You do realize we have a system of justice, and gun boner boy getting strapped up and killing a pedophile doesn't fall under allowable actions just because the guy was a pedophile?

Not one time have I ever commented on Rosenbaum or skateboard guy or handgun guy being convicted criminals.  I've never once brought it into the conversation.  You make shit up because you have absolutely no ability to be objective.  Everything out of your mouth comes from "tribe or team" or from some perception you really want to be able to apply with a great big blanket. 

 

@DDD Dad, the name comes form the old site where my username was ihateowho (as in I hate OU (who)).  Nobody ever got my username correct when they referenced me and I always signed my rep "- hate".  It was just easier to go with that here.  Thing I truly hate are hypocrites and liars....oh and people that make shit up because they have absolutely no ability to be objective.