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Several shot during 3rd night of Kenosha riots

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The “I used to vote Republican” line is the CR’s version of “I have a black friend.”   

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so, yeah, this is the problem writ large. unarmed black dude, may be a threat, shot several times in the back. armed white dude, with an assault rifle present and visible, who just shot some people, w

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Kenosha's very own Sweet Corn Fest, held every August Jerry Smith Produce and Pumpkin Farm (7150 18th St.), would like you to know that they are here to support you during this difficult time. Wh

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17449

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

At that moment, they appeared so.  They could have also legitimately felt scared for their property, and life.  Who's to make that distinction?    If they paid a premium to live in an area that is closed to outsiders, and outsiders break thru and trespass, then I can understand pretty well their fear.  There's plenty of people who will die/kill to protect everything they've worked for.  It's not that hard to understand. That particular protest wasn't violent, many were.  How do you expect them to know which way that particular protest was?  I mean they had already taken down the gate they weren't supposed to cross, where do they stop?  Aren't all protests peaceful until the first brick flies?

eta: I've been told it's OK to be angry and filled with rage.  In fact, predictable and completely understandable. 

They may have been legitimately (as in actually) afraid. But they weren't reasonably afraid. They had stream of people walking through their neighborhood, but otherwise doing nothing to it. You can't claim self-defense of person or property based on an irrational fear. 

Using your logic, black people would be within their right to shoot pretty much every cop they see because "aren't all cops peaceful until the first [bullet] flies [into your back]?"

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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4 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The McCloskeys didn't pay shit for their house - they won it in a lawsuit. Like everything else in their lives. Shit, they had active litigation against the community they live in to try and take an 1100sqft grass plot for """reasons"""

Yeah they sound like shit people.  They are all over the place.  Hell, this thread exists because of a guy that *allegedly raped a 14 year old, then a month later resisted arrest and was shot by another shit person in the back 7 times.  Guess what, *alleged rapist has 1.3m in a go fund me account now.  Maybe he can move in down the street from the McCloskeys and they can have a little group of people who don't deserve shit party.

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13132

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Just now, fattyflattie said:

At that moment, they appeared so.  They could have also legitimately felt scared for their property, and life.  Who's to make that distinction? 

When you use the word "legitimately" then the distinctions should be pretty simple.

Here are some basic questions:
- Are there people on their property?
- Is someone threatening their property?
- Have they been targeted previously?
- Has their neighborhood been victim to mob violence?

There are other questions, but I don't see how we can get to "legitimately". 

If a person's brain is poisoned and fearful enough, then ANYTHING can make them feel scared. They could snipe a toddler out of their window and do so while actually feeling scared for their lives. Crazy shit happens all the time.

Quote

How do you expect them to know which way that particular protest was?  I mean they had already taken down the gate they weren't supposed to cross, where do they stop?  Aren't all protests peaceful until the first brick flies?

If your concern is making sure there is no escalation towards violence, then you take action to ensure peace.

This isn't it.

4934ee38-68b3-45d4-b652-d8d4d9586253_192

This is an escalation. She's a fucking moronic psychopath, so she may not understand that, but it is what it is. What the McCloskeys did was an open attempt to increase tension and increase the potential for violence. They're freaks, so they don't understand that, but it is what it is.

If you think those people might do something, you watch through the windows with your gun next to you while on the phone with private security. That's reasonable.

This lunatic dressed like a fat French sailor from the 19th century? No, this is not reasonable. This is deranged.

4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Plenty huh. Lol. Well if BLM want “psychopaths” to hear them, they need to separate and that’s pretty fucking easy but they choose not to. Why not?

Yes. More support BLM than oppose.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17449

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4 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Plenty huh. Lol. Well if BLM want “psychopaths” to hear them, they need to separate and that’s pretty fucking easy but they choose not to. Why not?

What exactly would you have BLM do? You're indicting the organization based on the actions of others. They have about as much control of that as you had over Timothy McVeigh. Are you and others guilty by association for not stopping him? 

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Pancho

Pancho 44491

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9 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

How do you expect them to know which way that particular protest was?  I mean they had already taken down the gate they weren't supposed to cross,

"taken down?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53891184

Quote

However, a live stream from the front of the march shows that the first protesters walked through an intact gate that was being held open. Freelance photographer and University of Missouri journalism graduate student Daniel Shular told the BBC that the gate was unlocked when the first marchers entered. "People just walked up to it and opened the gate," he said, estimating he was the sixth person through. "It looked normal to me when I passed through."

Most legal analysts agree that the protesters were trespassing when they entered Portland Place.

Rasheen Aldridge, a state representative and one of the organisers of the march, said that crossing onto Portland Place should be considered an act of civil disobedience. "Just like in many disobedient protests, even in the 60s, you break laws, make people feel uncomfortable. We're not doing anything where we're hurting anyone or putting anyone in danger," he told KMOV.

It remains unclear at what point the gate was damaged, and by whom.

Moments later, Mark McCloskey appeared on his patio holding a rifle. He was separated from the protesters by a large hedge. "Get the hell out of my neighbourhood," he yelled. "Private property - get out. Get out." Some protesters yelled "calm down," while others swore at him.

Demonstrators shouted back at McCloskey that the street is "public property," which is not true of Portland Place - it is private property owned by a trust. Residents pay towards its management and the upkeep of the street, as well as private security.

According to analysis by St Louis Post-Dispatch investigative reporter Jeremy Kohler, video evidence does not show the protesters crossing onto the McCloskeys' property, remaining instead on the sidewalks and in the roadway.

 

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

If you think those people might do something, you watch through the windows with your gun next to you while on the phone with private security. That's reasonable.

And this is what 99.9% of us would do, I hope.  

It's not the way I would have gone about it, but what they did, worked.  For all we know if might have kept something from escalating, none of us know that.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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1 minute ago, Pancho said:

"taken down?"

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53891184

 

My poor wording. 

So, as your article states, they entered, trespassed, and at some point the gate was damaged. 

I'm very happy the protesters had the wherewithal to remain in the street and sidewalks, even if they were still not publicly accessible. Probably saved their lives.

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Enchubben

Enchubben 5509

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13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The McCloskeys didn't pay shit for their house - they won it in a lawsuit. Like everything else in their lives. Shit, they had active litigation against the community they live in to try and take an 1100sqft grass plot for """reasons"""

Now we're getting to the source of rage. They didn't earn it, right? Maybe they should make an unplanned donation of the home?

 

49 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Its the talking point du jour. 

YOUR SUBURBS WILL BE RANSACKED AND BURNED BY SCARY BLACK PEOPLE 

I bet I would only have to go back a week to show an example of peaceful protesters talking about burning down residences of "gentrifiers"

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Billy Pilgrim

Billy Pilgrim 1913

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The Kenosha guard and the looters and rioters all seem like really shitty people. Can we all agree to that?

Let ‘em go somewhere and beat the shit out of each other away from innocent bystanders. Let BLM protesters make their point with peaceful demonstrations without these fuckers distracting from their message.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104635

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2 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

And this is what 99.9% of us would do, I hope.  

It's not the way I would have gone about it, but what they did, worked.  For all we know if might have kept something from escalating, none of us know that.

Did what they do "work?"  Is escalation, heightening risk of fatal confrontation, a success?  And look at her finger - it's on the fucking trigger.  They were literally a fraction of a second from sending hot lead into a crowd that hadn't physically threatened them.  That's reckless bullshit, and as a gun owner, you know that.

These are the same people who, seeing a neighbor's beehives (for honey) slightly encroaching on their property, called the neighbor to ask them to move the hives back over their side of the property line. No, wait, that's not what happened at all.  He went out and took an axe to the hives, smashing them to bits.  Then called and threatened them with a lawsuit if they didn't remove the debris.  Oh, and the neighbor?  A fucking synagogue, which had set up the hives as part of their children's and religious programming (honey plays a significant role in the jewish faith).  These are not good people.  They are bad people.

 

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Captainant

Captainant 27468

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2 minutes ago, Billy Pilgrim said:

Let ‘em go somewhere and beat the shit out of each other away from innocent bystanders. Let BLM protesters make their point with peaceful demonstrations without these fuckers distracting from their message.

That's a great idea in concept, except there's multiple documented instances of white supremacists going into those protests and actively instigating violence and property damage. Which will undoubtedly be used as justification by MN, cheesey-weezey, and dcar to write off the movement as a violent mob. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14036

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3 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Now we're getting to the source of rage. They didn't earn it, right? Maybe they should make an unplanned donation of the home?

 

I bet I would only have to go back a week to show an example of peaceful protesters talking about burning down residences of "gentrifiers"

the amount of MSNBC/CNN talking points on here is staggering.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Did what they do "work?"  Is escalation, heightening risk of fatal confrontation, a success?  And look at her finger - it's on the fucking trigger.  They were literally a fraction of a second from sending hot lead into a crowd that hadn't physically threatened them.  That's reckless bullshit, and as a gun owner, you know that.

I agree wrt her trigger discipline.   That's part of why I believe they were in fear.  Like Ive said this entire time, not how I would have handled it, but it didn't "shock" me.  You can't even attempt to get into the gates at the gated communities near me.  As in a fucking cop will meet you at the front in 30 seconds if you type in the wrong code.  Knowing a few peeps that live behind those walls, they do it to avoid things just like this.   Just because they are right in their cause, does not mean they are right where they were.  They went to incite fear into the wrong neighborhood, it's as simple as that.  Ruffle feathers, whatever you want to call it.  They went to a wealthy neighborhood, during a time of riots, and made themselves known.  The only surprise to me was nothing bad happened.

 

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

These are the same people who, seeing a neighbor's beehives (for honey) slightly encroaching on their property, called the neighbor to ask them to move the hives back over their side of the property line. No, wait, that's not what happened at all.  He went out and took an axe to the hives, smashing them to bits.  Then called and threatened them with a lawsuit if they didn't remove the debris.  Oh, and the neighbor?  A fucking synagogue, which had set up the hives as part of their children's and religious programming (honey plays a significant role in the jewish faith).  These are not good people.  They are bad people.

Brisket, we've shared the same website as people who fake cancer, and drop rocks from fucking bridges while molesting children.  This world pumps out more assholes than good these days.  

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13414

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1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Nice guy Eddie said they were racist. Dahobbs didn’t know they were racist but they were shitty people.

So just because they’re potentially shitty and maybe but unconfirmed racist people, they deserve the pitchfork and torch treatment?

I was identifying them by the description that everyone knows them by.  I didn't say anything about their actual name or where they live but everyone knew who I meant.  I have zero idea if they're racist. Or frankly I don't even know if they're a couple or just friends. But their online persona is Racist Gun Couple.

 

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11556

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Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I was identifying them by the description that everyone knows them by.  I didn't say anything about their actual name or where they live but everyone knew who I meant.  I have zero idea if they're racist. Or frankly I don't even know if they're a couple or just friends. But their online persona is Racist Gun Couple.

 

LO fucking L.

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dcar00

dcar00 14036

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Its the talking point du jour. 

YOUR SUBURBS WILL BE RANSACKED AND BURNED BY SCARY BLACK PEOPLE 

no one is worried about black people in their suburbs.  who here has said the rioters are black people only?  in fact the majority is likely not black.  they are concerned about rioters/looters regardless of color. nice strawman though..

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104635

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5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

That's part of why I believe they were in fear.

Oh, I have no doubt that these particular people were "in fear" -- particularly when you look at their track record.  The slightest affront is treated as a threat to all that is sacred and right.  They were "in fear" precisely because they are the kind of people who are fucking terrified of a group of black people marching down their street.  There were numerous other homes on the block....notice how none of the OTHER homeowners flipped their shit?

Some people live on edge, irrationally so.  These are they.

The world does indeed pump out assholes at a staggering rate.  I'm simply noted that these folks are on the "asshole" side of the ledger, and deserve no praise or sympathy.

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dcar00

dcar00 14036

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2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I have no doubt that these particular people were "in fear" -- particularly when you look at their track record.  The slightest affront is treated as a threat to all that is sacred and right.  They were "in fear" precisely because they are the kind of people who are fucking terrified of a group of black people marching down their street.  There were numerous other homes on the block....notice how none of the OTHER homeowners flipped their shit?

Some people live on edge, irrationally so.  These are they.

The world does indeed pump out assholes at a staggering rate.  I'm simply noted that these folks are on the "asshole" side of the ledger, and deserve no praise or sympathy.

Don't we know it...

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2037

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10 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I was identifying them by the description that everyone knows them by.  I didn't say anything about their actual name or where they live but everyone knew who I meant.  I have zero idea if they're racist. Or frankly I don't even know if they're a couple or just friends. But their online persona is Racist Gun Couple.

 

Ken and Karen. That's how people identify them.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17449

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13 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

They went to incite fear into the wrong neighborhood, it's as simple as that.  Ruffle feathers, whatever you want to call it.  

Oh, come the fuck on. The rest of your post is bullshit, but this part is fucking completely fabricated. The neighborhood wasn't a target. No one gave a shit about it. It was just an area on the way to where everyone was going. The only people trying to incite fear were the McCloskeys. 

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2037

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Just now, Dahobbs said:

Oh, come the fuck on. The rest of your post is bullshit, but this part is fucking completely fabricated. The neighborhood wasn't a target. No one gave a shit about it. It was just an area on the way to where everyone was going. The only people trying to incite fear were the McCloskeys. 

I'm glad you think mobs are very smart and never do collateral damage.

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fattyflattie

fattyflattie 4636

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6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Oh, come the fuck on. The rest of your post is bullshit, but this part is fucking completely fabricated. The neighborhood wasn't a target. No one gave a shit about it. It was just an area on the way to where everyone was going. The only people trying to incite fear were the McCloskeys. 

Yeah.  To the mayors house a few blocks away.  If you think I meant they were specifically targeting the McCwhateverfucks, then no, that is not what I tried to convey.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53891184

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19331

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Oh, come the fuck on. The rest of your post is bullshit, but this part is fucking completely fabricated. The neighborhood wasn't a target. No one gave a shit about it. It was just an area on the way to where everyone was going. The only people trying to incite fear were the McCloskeys. 

They were going to protest at the Mayor's house (or maybe it was the DA, I don't remember) that lives in that neighborhood, or near there. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27468

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

They were going to protest at the Mayor's house (or maybe it was the DA, I don't remember) that lives in that neighborhood, or near there. 

No, those protesters thought BLACK lives mattered, not ALL lives, so the McCloskeys were justified in brandishing firearms from their lawsuit mansion to protect their property from the LOOTING VIOLENT ANARCHISTS!! /workswithMNcheeseweasel

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dcar00

dcar00 14036

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

They were going to protest at the Mayor's house (or maybe it was the DA, I don't remember) that lives in that neighborhood, or near there. 

I think this is how I would have done it...subtlety is a lost art

Man sitting on porch with multiple guns and rifles ca. 1927 Stock Photo - Alamy

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17449

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3 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah.  To the mayors house a few blocks away.  If you think I meant they were specifically targeting the McCwhateverfucks, then no, that is not what I tried to convey.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53891184

Dude, no one was trying to incite fear. There is plenty of video of that event. People were just walking by. It wasn't a riot. It was just a crowd. 

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2037

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

No, those protesters though BLACK lives mattered, not ALL lives, so the McCloskeys were justified in brandishing firearms from their lawsuit mansion to protect their property from the LOOTING VIOLENT ANARCHISTS!! /workswithMNcheeseweasel

I could also start working with Minnesota cheese weasels.

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Ignatius

Ignatius 4002

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Posted
1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:


Yep. If BLM would drop their fucking hands in their peaceful stand off with a line of police and take a bat to someone carrying 3 cases of beer out of a looted liquor store, the message would be clearer. But until that happens, the messengers will always be linked to the savages because they don’t stop it themselves

That your idea of a peaceful protest? Or are they under an obligation to shed the peaceful part and start pummeling people so that we can tell the good darkys from the bad ones?

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