Several shot during 3rd night of Kenosha riots

[atomheartbevo 89465]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Probably not.  But he sure as shit would have been a Loyalist.  Nothing says LAW AND ORDER like company after company of well-trained redcoats, working on the orders of an authoritarian ruler.

Good point.   Really good point.   He absolutely would have sided with authority, since that’s all his social media is.  His lawyer does not understand revolution very well.   

[workswithseed 2037]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Probably not.  But he sure as shit would have been a Loyalist.  Nothing says LAW AND ORDER like company after company of well-trained redcoats, working on the orders of an authoritarian ruler.

Protects private property, and is okay with government buildings destroyed. He must be a loyalist.

[Brisketexan 104708]

Just now, workswithseed said:

Protects private property, and is okay with government buildings destroyed. He must be a loyalist.

Loves showing up with a rifle to deal with "the mob."  Definitely a loyalist.

[workswithseed 2037]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Loves showing up with a rifle to deal with "the mob."  Definitely a loyalist.

From destroying private property.

[Brisketexan 104708]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

From destroying private property.

Not his property.  Acting as a de facto deputy of the Crown -- he will decide what Law and Order is, and enforce it from the barrel of the gun.  He's filled his journals with fawning for the King's Troops.  You really don't realize that your pals are fighting for the authoritarian empire....it's kind of fascinating.

[huge 3789]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

From destroying private property.

Whatever he was trying to do, his performance was dreadful.  By any measure.  And tragic.  And ultimately pointless.

[workswithseed 2037]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Not his property.  Acting as a de facto deputy of the Crown -- he will decide what Law and Order is, and enforce it from the barrel of the gun.  He's filled his journals with fawning for the King's Troops.  You really don't realize that your pals are fighting for the authoritarian empire....it's kind of fascinating.

Can you not protect others property? Should I watch as my nieghbor's property gets burned?

[Doc Reeves 6434]

8 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

From destroying private property.

Guess what’s not his job.

also, we already did this in ‘92 in LA and people who were ‘defending their property’ got jail time.

 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

Can you not protect others property? Should I watch as my nieghbor's property gets burned?

In TX you could shoot someone if that happened

 

In WI you couldn’t 

[sidis 9759]

8 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

From destroying private property.

the british east india trading company agrees.

[BabaYaga 15214]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

Can you not protect others property? Should I watch as my nieghbor's property gets burned?

This is on the Mayor and city leaders, who's tacit approval and refusal to take action engendered this shit.  You want to allow anarchy?  Congratulations, this is anarchy.  

[workswithseed 2037]

Just now, Doc Reeves said:

Guess what’s not his job.

also, we already did this in ‘92 in LA and people who were ‘defending their property’ got jail time.

 

Sure, the rooftop Koreans got time. 

[workswithseed 2037]

1 minute ago, sidis said:

the british east india trading company agrees.

The British government totally was hands off.

[Brisketexan 104708]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Can you not protect others property? Should I watch as my nieghbor's property gets burned?

Can you not arm yourself to protect other's lives?  Should I watch as my neighbors are assaulted and murdered by the Crown?

Just asking questions....

[sidis 9759]

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Can you not protect others property? Should I watch as my nieghbor's property gets burned?

not with deadly force, no.  it is called vigilantism.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Just now, workswithseed said:

The British government totally was hands off.

You might want to brish up on your History of India

[sidis 9759]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

The British government totally was hands off.

every time i read one of your posts, i am reminded that i need to remember to apologize to onboard for calling him the dumbest mother fucker on this website.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

2 minutes ago, sidis said:

not with deadly force, no.  it is called vigilantism.

Joe Horn disagrees. 

[Brisketexan 104708]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This is on the Mayor and city leaders, who's tacit approval and refusal to take action engendered this shit.  You want to allow anarchy?  Congratulations, this is anarchy.  

Quick question......as to the "inaction" by the authorities to protect areas and such.....is that on ORDERS from the mayor(s)?  Or is that a tactical decision of the police departments independently?  In most cities, mayors etc. do not have direct command of police activities -- they can take the PD to task, make funding decisions, etc., but they don't have the power to tell the police "go here, but not there."  So, I hear the narrative, but I'd like to drill down on that to, oh, I dunno, the actual facts and command decisions made.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

1 minute ago, sidis said:

not with deadly force, no.  it is called vigilantism.

Yeah, it’s cool in TX.

there a semi famous case of a neighbor in Houston on the phone with 911 reporting that his neighbors house was being burgled. He shot one of them in the back as they were fleeing while he was on the phone with them. It was ruled cool.

[wildcat09 29273]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

The British government totally was hands off.

Please for the love of god do some reading instead of just watching a five minute Prager U video.

[sidis 9759]

3 minutes ago, Doc Reeves said:

Yeah, it’s cool in TX.

there a semi famous case of a neighbor in Houston on the phone with 911 reporting that his neighbors house was being burgled. He shot one of them in the back as they were fleeing while he was on the phone with them. It was ruled cool.

i mean, a harris county jury issued on a no bill on the case on the questionable evidence that horn claimed the burglars were invading and threatening his property (which was insane given the actual evidence).  while joe horn gets to walk free, it does not mean the next guy will based on the facts.  a key in the horn no bill was the claim that they were claiming castle doctrine applied because deadly force was necessary...predicated on the claim that they were threatening him directly. 

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Just now, sidis said:

i mean, a harris county jury issued on a no bill on the case on the questionable evidence that horn claimed the burglars were invading and threatening his property (which was insane given the actual evidence).  while joe horn gets to walk free, it does not mean the next guy will based on the facts.  a key in the horn no bill was the claim that they were claiming castle doctrine applied because deadly force was necessary...predicated on the claim that they were threatening him directly. 

Exactly, the fact he was in his front yard created a situation that constituted a threat. Im surmising that if unrest was the cause of a neighbors fire and one was in their front yard as well a threat would be reasonably implied.

yours is an important correction because as I read over my post it comes off like I’m implying that his actions are specifically covered by the castle doc.

[BabaYaga 15214]

9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Quick question......as to the "inaction" by the authorities to protect areas and such.....is that on ORDERS from the mayor(s)?  Or is that a tactical decision of the police departments independently?  In most cities, mayors etc. do not have direct command of police activities -- they can take the PD to task, make funding decisions, etc., but they don't have the power to tell the police "go here, but not there."  So, I hear the narrative, but I'd like to drill down on that to, oh, I dunno, the actual facts and command decisions made.

Explicit  and direct stand down orders started in MN.  Then spread to Seattle and Portland.  Facilitating the chaos and allowing it to spread.  Then we saw it in Chicago.  In Kenosha, the police again stood by and let the town and businesses burn.  I have not yet see directives, but look at the events and they unfolded. 

The initial Kenosha protests were just that, actual protests, then the vandalism started and businesses burned.  Tear gas and fences around the courthouse deployed by the LE.  Then Tuesday they were gone?  Police don't just leave of their own volition.  Then the Governor announced more Nat Guard troops to be brought in, but on Wed none were visible outside unmarked and Marshalls.  

This goes to the larger context of the cities facilitating this escalation and then shrugging their shoulders when the conflagration burns too hot.  People are dying.  Bricks.  Skateboards.  Bats.  Pipes.  Now firearms as a natural escalation and armed groups on both sides. 

[workswithseed 2037]

38 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Can you not arm yourself to protect other's lives?  Should I watch as my neighbors are assaulted and murdered by the Crown?

Just asking questions....

Sure, but you go after the person who did it, don't you? You don't start killing everyone in the vicinity.

[workswithseed 2037]

38 minutes ago, sidis said:

every time i read one of your posts, i am reminded that i need to remember to apologize to onboard for calling him the dumbest mother fucker on this website.

So the the tax on tea without representation was totally just, and not in anyway the government's doing.

[dcar00 14036]

31 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Quick question......as to the "inaction" by the authorities to protect areas and such.....is that on ORDERS from the mayor(s)?  Or is that a tactical decision of the police departments independently?  In most cities, mayors etc. do not have direct command of police activities -- they can take the PD to task, make funding decisions, etc., but they don't have the power to tell the police "go here, but not there."  So, I hear the narrative, but I'd like to drill down on that to, oh, I dunno, the actual facts and command decisions made.

The Mayor would need to ask the Governor for National Guard troops right?  Or the Governor could likely call in the National Guard himself if he deemed it necessary.  they are waiting too long.

[fattyflattie 4636]

Who tf is giving this dude legal advice?  Is his goal to become a martyr?  So odd. 

[RDCanecutter 26310]

2 hours ago, huge said:

Hispanic doesnt equal white.  So no where in Texas is remotely that WHITE

 

2 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

Perhaps in the greater Austin area, but I don't know if I trust the old numbers regarding Austin proper.  It's the whitest place I've ever lived, and seems to be getting whiter every decade.

 

I've always thought of ethnic groups as behaviors rather than genetic tests.  And it can't be superficial behavior, eg wrapping yourself in a checked tablecloth and listening to bagpipes doesn't make you Scottish, and slobbering over a waitress' titties at Oktoberfest doesn't make you German. On the other hand, inviting your neighbors to dinner and then slashing their throats, yo, that's VERY Scottish, and becoming a performance artist and slicing off your own nipples while screaming "Mutti, Muuuutti,", well I won't deny then that you're German.

Same with Hispanic. You gotta earn that title. In Laredo they know what's up. In Austin, they tend to mail it in, just like the Czechs they think they're something because their grandaddy was that thing. Hell, my grandaddy was an electrician, want me to rewire your house? I am sure there are some super-duper Hispanics in Austin, but my scientific survey (follow a multi-generational family through Walmart, see what Gramama speaks, see if daughter or grandaughter answer in the same language) indicates that within a generation, Austin Hispanics will all be learning Norwegian while eating mayonnaise in the park, in Duluth.

And you white motherfuckers in Austin, damn y'all some shrill kind of white too.

[Brisketexan 104708]

Explicit  and direct stand down orders started in MN.  Then spread to Seattle and Portland.  Facilitating the chaos and allowing it to spread.  Then we saw it in Chicago.  In Kenosha, the police again stood by and let the town and businesses burn.  I have not yet see directives, but look at the events and they unfolded. 
The initial Kenosha protests were just that, actual protests, then the vandalism started and businesses burned.  Tear gas and fences around the courthouse deployed by the LE.  Then Tuesday they were gone?  Police don't just leave of their own volition.  Then the Governor announced more Nat Guard troops to be brought in, but on Wed none were visible outside unmarked and Marshalls.  
This goes to the larger context of the cities facilitating this escalation and then shrugging their shoulders when the conflagration burns too hot.  People are dying.  Bricks.  Skateboards.  Bats.  Pipes.  Now firearms as a natural escalation and armed groups on both sides. 

Police don’t just leave of their own volition?
You sure about that?

When the police stand down, and chaos reigns....who ultimately benefits? Just read and listen to what people, including you, are saying in response - “bring in the cops! We need more cops, not fewer! They need more funding, not less!” If I was a police chief, and I wanted the public response to be one of begging me to act and offering me all the support I wanted....standing down to allow chaos is exactly what I’d do.

You didn’t answer my question - I didn’t ask what the cops did or didn’t do in terms of engagement; I asked what the specific orders were, and where they came from. You haven’t answered that.

[Samson's Wig 3182]

5 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

 

 

I've always thought of ethnic groups as behaviors rather than genetic tests.  And it can't be superficial behavior, eg wrapping yourself in a checked tablecloth and listening to bagpipes doesn't make you Scottish, and slobbering over a waitress' titties at Oktoberfest doesn't make you German. On the other hand, inviting your neighbors to dinner and then slashing their throats, yo, that's VERY Scottish, and becoming a performance artist and slicing off your own nipples while screaming "Mutti, Muuuutti,", well I won't deny then that you're German.

Same with Hispanic. You gotta earn that title. In Laredo they know what's up. In Austin, they tend to mail it in, just like the Czechs they think they're something because their grandaddy was that thing. Hell, my grandaddy was an electrician, want me to rewire your house? I am sure there are some super-duper Hispanics in Austin, but my scientific survey (follow a multi-generational family through Walmart, see what Gramama speaks, see if daughter or grandaughter answer in the same language) indicates that within a generation, Austin Hispanics will all be learning Norwegian while eating mayonnaise in the park, in Duluth.

And you white motherfuckers in Austin, damn y'all some shrill kind of white too.

This guy gets it.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Samson's Wig

[wildcat09 29273]

Yeah, the idea that cops want to intervene and are being ordered to stand down by politicians is insane. Just look at how the NYPD responds every time the local government even considers trying to calm those fucks down.

[Doc Reeves 6434]

nm

Edited September 2, 2020 by Doc Reeves

[sidis 9759]

10 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

So the the tax on tea without representation was totally just, and not in anyway the government's doing.

typing slowly here...

context: you believe this little dipshit who went looking for trouble and murdered someone as a vigilante is righteous in that he came from another town in another state armed and was "protecting" business property from protesters.  his atty is likening him to the american revolutionaries as part of their p.r. campaign to poison the well in a criminal prosecution, raise their profile to a national level in order to attract support (including financial) from useful idiots like yourself, and maybe even get vocal support from our mongoloid of a president.  objectors here point out their perceived irony since they believe he would be more likened to a british monarchy loyalist due to his affection for an authoritarian who regularly exhibits naked corruption, nepotism, self-aggrandizing motivations, a general disdain for people who aren't from generational wealth, and an utter lack of empathy for the overwhelming majority of the population - including his own supporters.  you take exception to that by pointing out that because he was "protecting private property," he was a true blue libertarian cherishing the values and ideals set forth by the american revolutionaries.

me: snarky comment about the british east india company which is clearly a reference to the boston tea party.  the british east india company was a comany that was started as an enterprise of london businessmen for importing spices.  it was a joint stock company acting with charter bestowed upon by the crown.  it was the entity that actually owned the tea that was destroyed in the boston tea party.

cause of boston tea party: tea act of 1773 imposed by the british government.  eventual americans object to this naked corruption favoring winners in the marketplace and the taxation of subjects without their representation in government.

consequence of boston tea party: private property owned by british east india company is destroyed.

you: but that was because of the actions of the government!!!!! LOUD NOISES.  it was reactionary because of government injustice.

me: insert exasperation gif here.

perhaps a parallel could be drawn for you to help you.  government injustice: tea tax : inequality in law enforcement application of justice depending on race.  reaction: boston tea party : protest/riots.  property destroyed: private : sometimes private.  people protecting private property in those instances: loyalists : loyalists.

now, don't misinterpret this as me endorsing the destruction of property as a helpful means of protest in the current context.  i'm too rich at this point to do so and have too much to lose.  i think it is counterproductive and undermines one's cause in this particular situation.  that said, i also understand how it is coming to pass.  but the absurdity of the effort to frame the narrative as it relates to this guy as akin to the battle of concord is beyond the pale and idiots like yourself that are incapable of thinking beyond the six inches in front of your nose drinking it up like brawno are the only reason such obvious manipulation tactics are employed.

[BabaYaga 15214]

26 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, the idea that cops want to intervene and are being ordered to stand down by politicians is insane. 

Except when it happens.  Again and again.  MN police were initially told to stand down.  Sacramento police were told to stand down.  Chicago.  Seattle.  Louisville.  Raleigh.  

Again, the timeline indicates this more than likely happened in Kenosha as LE engaged, then just disappeared?    That won't happen unless directed to disengage.  

[sidis 9759]

35 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

 

 

I've always thought of ethnic groups as behaviors rather than genetic tests.  And it can't be superficial behavior, eg wrapping yourself in a checked tablecloth and listening to bagpipes doesn't make you Scottish, and slobbering over a waitress' titties at Oktoberfest doesn't make you German. On the other hand, inviting your neighbors to dinner and then slashing their throats, yo, that's VERY Scottish, and becoming a performance artist and slicing off your own nipples while screaming "Mutti, Muuuutti,", well I won't deny then that you're German.

Same with Hispanic. You gotta earn that title. In Laredo they know what's up. In Austin, they tend to mail it in, just like the Czechs they think they're something because their grandaddy was that thing. Hell, my grandaddy was an electrician, want me to rewire your house? I am sure there are some super-duper Hispanics in Austin, but my scientific survey (follow a multi-generational family through Walmart, see what Gramama speaks, see if daughter or grandaughter answer in the same language) indicates that within a generation, Austin Hispanics will all be learning Norwegian while eating mayonnaise in the park, in Duluth.

And you white motherfuckers in Austin, damn y'all some shrill kind of white too.

i have to be honest.  you, 2 out of every 3 @Hank Scorpio posts, trading music stuff with @Goredho, occasionally checking out food pron from @Jack Straw and @Anastasis, and @milkman's wine consumption logs are the primary reasons i read stuff here.

at least until we are good enough to start beating ohio state, oklahoma, and alabama at football again.  been a long fucking decade.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Probably not.  But he sure as shit would have been a Loyalist.  Nothing says LAW AND ORDER like company after company of well-trained redcoats, working on the orders of an authoritarian ruler.

Legit point. We need better uniforms.

[TwiceHorn 31311]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Quick question......as to the "inaction" by the authorities to protect areas and such.....is that on ORDERS from the mayor(s)?  Or is that a tactical decision of the police departments independently?  In most cities, mayors etc. do not have direct command of police activities -- they can take the PD to task, make funding decisions, etc., but they don't have the power to tell the police "go here, but not there."  So, I hear the narrative, but I'd like to drill down on that to, oh, I dunno, the actual facts and command decisions made.

Yeah, the police are on-scene pretty much all of these places where the violence and destruction are occurring.  You can see rollers in the background when the dumpster is set afire. 

But all the cops on scene ever seem to do is go aggro on peaceful protestor types that aren't respecting their authoritah.  They are nowhere to be found if the actually violent and potentially armed rabble rousers are operating.  Effective policing!

It's kind of absurd to blame the mayor and city officials for this.

Edited September 2, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

48 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

wrapping yourself in a checked tablecloth and listening to bagpipes doesn't make you Scottish

Same with Hispanic. You gotta earn that title.

What about both?

 

 

[RDCanecutter 26310]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

What about both?

 

 

Chuntaro-McChunty!

[Brisketexan 104708]

10 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Again, the timeline indicates this more than likely happened in Kenosha as LE engaged, then just disappeared?    That won't happen unless directed to disengage.  

Still not answering the question -- directed by whom?  By the mayor?  This isn't Ghostbusters -- mayors generally don't call in the Police Chief and tell him to go defend this area, and not this one.  Police departments generally have significant command autonomy.

I have no doubt that Officer Jones, pulling back from an area, or simply standing by and watching shit get burned, is being "directed" to do so.  But your post continues to assume that in each case, it's "the mayors!", without citing any actual orders and who gave them.  I'm not saying that some mayors may not have done so, and may even have had the power to do so.  I'm just looking for the evidence of 1) orders, and 2) from whom they came.  The fact that the police have disengaged in numerous places is evidence only of point 1 - it is zero evidence of point 2.

[Brisketexan 104708]

53 minutes ago, RDCanecutter said:

within a generation, Austin Hispanics will all be learning Norwegian while eating mayonnaise in the park, in Duluth.

So, ummm....yeah.....hispanic daughter in college in Canada, actually studying Norwegian and taking shots of maple syrup for shits and giggles with her friends.  Pretty spot-on, dude.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

This isn't Ghostbusters

[RDCanecutter 26310]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

So, ummm....yeah.....hispanic daughter in college in Canada, actually studying Norwegian and taking shots of maple syrup for shits and giggles with her friends.  Pretty spot-on, dude.

SHIT MAN, I was actually trying to avoid making it seem like I was talking about you.

I'll creep back to my burrow and continue muttering about th'Gummint.

[hayden_horn 11360]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So, ummm....yeah.....hispanic daughter in college in Canada, actually studying Norwegian and taking shots of maple syrup for shits and giggles with her friends.  Pretty spot-on, dude.

[BabaYaga 15214]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Still not answering the question -- directed by whom?  By the mayor?  This isn't Ghostbusters -- mayors generally don't call in the Police Chief and tell him to go defend this area, and not this one.  Police departments generally have significant command autonomy.

Jesus Christ.  In MN, Mayor Frey publicly defended HIS DECISION to have the LE stand down

Quote

“the symbolism of a building cannot outweigh the importance of life, of our officers, or the public. We could not risk serious injury to anyone and we will continue to patrol the 3rd precinct entirely, we will continue to do our jobs in that area, and you know, brick and mortar is not as important as life.”

Sacramento - the SD order came from Mayor Steinburg.

In Louisville, the city is being sued from the orders, issued again, by the mayor .  Greg Fischer is cited in the suit as who gave the orders.  

In Seattle, CHOP/CHAZ what the fuck ever was allowed to happen, then only cleared at the specific directive of the Mayor.  

[washparkhorn 9935]

24 minutes ago, sidis said:

typing slowly here...

Take it easy on the kid - William James. Not everyone is a polyglot. He has intellectual curiosity, which puts him well above most. And he listens.

Hook 'em

[Brisketexan 104708]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

In Louisville, the city is being sued from the orders, issued again, by the mayor .  Greg Fischer is cited in the suit as who gave the orders.  

As just one example, that fact is in significant dispute (something you failed to notice; you know as well as I do, anyone can "allege" anything they want in a lawsuit).  Like, directly denied by the mayor's office:

Quote

Fischer spokeswoman Jean Porter told The Courier Journal Wednesday that "we are not familiar with this lawsuit," but denied the accusation of a "stand down" order being issued.

"There was never a 'stand down' order," Porter wrote in an email. "LMPD’s goal is always to de-escalate situations wherever possible. And tactical decisions are made by LMPD command staff, not the Mayor."

So, if an order was given, there should be witnesses and records of that order.  Haven't seen them.

And it "more than likely happened in Kenosha?"  Really?  Any citation for that?  Again, we know the cops stood by and watched bad shit happen....but your source for that being at the order of the mayor is.....?  In fact, the mayor has publicly stood behind the police chief and supported him.  Neither the mayor nor the chief have referenced a single "stand down" order from the mayor, from what I can find.

Again...who benefits most from violence and disorder?  Come on, you can do the math, it's pretty easy.  

Edited September 2, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again...who benefits most from violence and disorder?

Nike. They are getting their product out to the market in a very unique way to people who could not afford it before. Some marketing guy is gonna take credit for it.

[BabaYaga 15214]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again...who benefits most from violence and disorder?  Come on, you can do the math, it's pretty easy.  

BTW, guess who has the power to fire a police chief.....

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by BabaYaga