Your unpopular music opinions

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Boston, the band, sucks ass. I don’t ever need to hear them again in my life.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

4 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

Police are definitely there, I did forget them, but was their last album after the Cars? I can't remember.

 

I love Dire Straights but they are not really a pop band. I like the Eurythmics too, but they are not on that level. Annie Lennox was hot as donut grease though.

 

 

Nirvana was totally a pop band. Cobain had probably the best pop sensibilities since Paul McCartney.

No, Cars released garbage after the police stopped studio albums. 

Eurythmics sold 75 million albums. Seems like a pretty high level.  

Why is Dire Straits not a pop band? Why is Nirvana? How are you defining “pop band” here?

[G650 14301]

6 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

No, Cars released garbage after the police stopped studio albums. 

Eurythmics sold 75 million albums. Seems like a pretty high level.  

Why is Dire Straits not a pop band? Why is Nirvana? How are you defining “pop band” here?

 

"Pop" is a very specific musical idiom, with song structures and characteristics. An artist from basically any genre can make pop music. Paul Muriats Love is Blue is a pop song right along with Whitney Houstons I Wanna Dance With Somebody and Nirvana' Smells Like Teen Spirit and the Pixies Here Comes Your Man.

 

There's definitely some Dire Straits that is pop like, like Skateaway, but mostly they were a standard AOR band. Knopfler is a wicked guitarist at any rate.

 

You had a lot of pop bands in the late 60s, it gave us the trifecta of Pet Sounds, Sgt Peppers, and The Who Sell Out. It became much more individual artist driven as time passed. Micheal Jackson, Madonna, etc.... The Cars, U2 and Police were the tail end of legitimate bands really operating in that space. Pop punk kind of revived it some but I really don't rate Blink 182 in that class, as catchy as their songs may be.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

2 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

"Pop" is a very specific musical idiom, with song structures and characteristics. An artist from basically any genre can make pop music. Paul Muriats Love is Blue is a pop song right along with Whitney Houstons I Wanna Dance With Somebody and Nirvana' Smells Like Teen Spirit and the Pixies Here Comes Your Man.

 

There's definitely some Dire Straits that is pop like, like Skateaway, but mostly they were a standard AOR band. Knopfler is a wicked guitarist at any rate.

 

You had a lot of pop bands in the late 60s, it gave us the trifecta of Pet Sounds, Sgt Peppers, and The Who Sell Out. It became much more individual artist driven as time passed. Micheal Jackson, Madonna, etc.... The Cars, U2 and Police were the tail end of legitimate bands really operating in that space. Pop punk kind of revived it some but I really don't rate Blink 182 in that class, as catchy as their songs may be.

Yeah, I’m bowing out of a conversation that has Nirvana as pop and the guys who did Money for Nothing, Walk of Life, Skateaway, and Industrial Disease as not, since I don’t have the foggiest fucking idea what you’re talking about. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Doc Daneeka

[ztejas 43741]

12 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

"Pop" is a very specific musical idiom, with song structures and characteristics. An artist from basically any genre can make pop music. Paul Muriats Love is Blue is a pop song right along with Whitney Houstons I Wanna Dance With Somebody and Nirvana' Smells Like Teen Spirit and the Pixies Here Comes Your Man.

 

There's definitely some Dire Straits that is pop like, like Skateaway, but mostly they were a standard AOR band. Knopfler is a wicked guitarist at any rate.

 

You had a lot of pop bands in the late 60s, it gave us the trifecta of Pet Sounds, Sgt Peppers, and The Who Sell Out. It became much more individual artist driven as time passed. Micheal Jackson, Madonna, etc.... The Cars, U2 and Police were the tail end of legitimate bands really operating in that space. Pop punk kind of revived it some but I really don't rate Blink 182 in that class, as catchy as their songs may be.

I like this take and you're certainly in the right thread. I don't have the same definition of pop but I (somewhat) understand your parameters. 

I'd still disagree that Nirvana is pop - even by your definition. And I don't think early U2 qualifies either (like up until JT). U2 was very atmospheric and jammy - and Nirvana was just straight up dark. Nirvana maybe seems more like pop now, but it certainly wasn't before, well, Nirvana came along. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by ztejas

[G650 14301]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I like this take and you're certainly in the right thread. I don't have the same definition of pop but I (somewhat) understand your parameters. 

I'd still disagree that Nirvana is pop - even by your definition. And I don't think early U2 qualifies either (like up until JT). U2 was very atmospheric and jammy - and Nirvana was just straight up dark. Nirvana maybe seems more like pop now, but it certainly wasn't before, well, Nirvana came along. 

 

I mean, I guess the thing I'm trying to relate is its not really my parameters or necessarily bands I like. Pop isna specific thing, and typically the old school top 40 radio station playlist was a reasonable analog for what was pop. Like Nirvana was blasted ad nauseam on top 40 radio for example. The same stations now that play Taylor Swift and Ariana Grande and One Republic. Just because the local rock station plays the shit out of Kansas or Dire Straits or whatever, thats not Pop.

 

I would agree that U2 didn't start as a total pop band, thats true. But they became one pretty quickly.

 

If I remember you are in your 20s, right? I can just tell you as someone who went through that time, Nirvana was never a super heavy or dark thing. It was all catchy hooks and radio and MTV. Black Flag and Minor Threat were bands that were hard, not Nirvana. The Germs, the Descendents, the Minutemen were real indie guys. Nirvanas main contribution was tearing down the polish of 80s radio for a raw sound, mainly because they had the pop sensibilities to break through. It was very poppy music even then. And as I mentioned Kurt Cobain was a huge pop music fan, especially shit from the 70s.

[ztejas 43741]

3 hours ago, G650 said:

If I remember you are in your 20s, right? I can just tell you as someone who went through that time, Nirvana was never a super heavy or dark thing. It was all catchy hooks and radio and MTV. Black Flag and Minor Threat were bands that were hard, not Nirvana. The Germs, the Descendents, the Minutemen were real indie guys. Nirvanas main contribution was tearing down the polish of 80s radio for a raw sound, mainly because they had the pop sensibilities to break through. It was very poppy music even then. And as I mentioned Kurt Cobain was a huge pop music fan, especially shit from the 70s.

But by "poppy" you mean it was popular with audiences and played well on radio. Thematically and lyrically they were absolutely dark and heavy in a way that no one before them was who shared a similar level of success. I mean that's part of WHY they were so popular. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by ztejas

[ztejas 43741]

@G650 is Bruce Springsteen a pop artist? 

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

 
I mean, I guess the thing I'm trying to relate is its not really my parameters or necessarily bands I like. Pop isna specific thing, and typically the old school top 40 radio station playlist was a reasonable analog for what was pop. Like Nirvana was blasted ad nauseam on top 40 radio for example. The same stations now that play Taylor Swift and Ariana Grande and One Republic. Just because the local rock station plays the shit out of Kansas or Dire Straits or whatever, thats not Pop.
 
I would agree that U2 didn't start as a total pop band, thats true. But they became one pretty quickly.
 
If I remember you are in your 20s, right? I can just tell you as someone who went through that time, Nirvana was never a super heavy or dark thing. It was all catchy hooks and radio and MTV. Black Flag and Minor Threat were bands that were hard, not Nirvana. The Germs, the Descendents, the Minutemen were real indie guys. Nirvanas main contribution was tearing down the polish of 80s radio for a raw sound, mainly because they had the pop sensibilities to break through. It was very poppy music even then. And as I mentioned Kurt Cobain was a huge pop music fan, especially shit from the 70s.

The great Fugazi is the epitome of indie bands. Goddamn what an amazing band.

[ztejas 43741]

3 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Boston, the band, sucks ass. I don’t ever need to hear them again in my life.

Boston (1976) is one of the greatest and most important albums made by anybody, ever. 

Outside of that - yeah, who gives a fuck. 

Also it's not really a band. 

[tbone_ 14255]

Boston (1976) is one of the greatest and most important albums made by anybody, ever. 
Outside of that - yeah, who gives a fuck. 
Also it's not really a band. 

Now you’ve done it

[G650 14301]

8 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

The great Fugazi is the epitome of indie bands. Goddamn what an amazing band.

Shit yeah man. I can remember how pumped we used to get for Fugazi shows back in high school, they played here a lot, being just up the road in DC

[G650 14301]

10 hours ago, ztejas said:

But by "poppy" you mean it was popular with audiences and played well on radio. Thematically and lyrically they were absolutely dark and heavy in a way that no one before them was who shared a similar level of success. I mean that's part of WHY they were so popular. 

 

No, that's not what I mean. It's referring to the way the songs are composed. Being a huge hit was a downstream effect of that. It meant they did a good job writing the songs.

 

Nevermind was widely viewed as a overly slick pop album at the time of it's release by not only long time Nirvana fans but basically all typical indie music fans. Even by Nirvana themselves, they were not super happy with the final product and In Utero was a big reaction to that.

 

 

10 hours ago, ztejas said:

@G650 is Bruce Springsteen a pop artist? 

 

He has written plenty of pop songs like Hungry Heart or Dancing in the Dark. He has done quite a bit of less accessible stuff too though. In between the River and Born in the U.S.A., he put out Nebraska and half the people don't even know that album exists.

[locodos 5423]

10 hours ago, G650 said:

Black Flag and Minor Threat were bands that were hard, not Nirvana. The Germs, the Descendents, the Minutemen were real indie guys. Nirvanas main contribution was tearing down the polish of 80s radio for a raw sound, mainly because they had the pop sensibilities to break through. It was very poppy music even then. And as I mentioned Kurt Cobain was a huge pop music fan, especially shit from the 70s.

Black Flag is a great brand not a good band...  Damaged was great, the rest was crap.  But you'd think they're the Beatles by how ubiquitous their symbol is....  I've seen rappers and tiny boppers with the black flag tat

 

These are some indy mofos

 

[G650 14301]

1 minute ago, locodos said:

Black Flag is a great brand not a good band...  Damaged was great, the rest was crap.  But you'd think they're the Beatles by how ubiquitous their symbol is....  I've seen rappers and tiny boppers with the black flag tat

 

These are some indy mofos

 

 

I'm honestly not a Black Flag fan. And I think Greg Ginn is a colossal douche. The main thing I tip my hat to them on was really laying the groundwork for the DIY touring circuit, they did really put in the hard miles and establish that. I do like Henry Rollins though.

 

I just read Corporate Rock Sucks: The Rise and Fall of SST Records recently, very good book, I highly recommend it to anyone who was into the scene back in the day.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Shit yeah man. I can remember how pumped we used to get for Fugazi shows back in high school, they played here a lot, being just up the road in DC

I got to see them three times. Twice in Austin at Liberty Lunch and once in the basement of a church in DC when I worked in a recording studio there 22 years ago. Good times.

$5 tickets to all their shows
Albums cost $8-10

They never gave in on their ideals. And still managed to become millionaires while making unique music how they wanted.

[Al_4_ISU 12526]

The melody to "Lithium" could have been in a Beatles song.  Nirvana absolutely wrote some pop songs, and they were fucking great.

[Buzzrock 15026]

I never said Prince doesn’t appeal to me as a guitarist. I said he’s not one of the greats. He’s fine, he’s played some guitar stuff that’s enjoyable to listen to and, given he’s a pop artist, he has mildly surprising chops. But he’s nothing special as a guitarist, and his stuff that gets fanbois drooling is startlingly basic. 
Whatever. I guess it’s human nature to let subjective taste overwhelm objective thinking. Carry on with your cherished mythology. 
Oh and one request: if any of y’all can find a video of Prince playing the intro to When Doves Cry live, please post a link. I’ve looked and can’t find an example. 

Your measuring stick seems to be “how hard are they to imitate” which I think is a pretty narrow view. You’ve been clear that you think Jack White is not a great guitar player, for instance, and presumably that’s because you think his stuff is easy to play and doesn’t follow traditional playing methods. But I’m blown away by his creativity and passion and raw power. Prince could fall in that bucket too. But I’m a fan of energetic guitar players that are a little different. Take Kim Thayil for example. The outro solo on Superunknown just soars but he’s not on anyone’s all timer list.

Here’s a different example: none of what David Gilmour plays is particularly difficult. Even a hack like me can make a pretty good pass at the Comfortably Numb solo, for example. But he did it first, and his creativity, note selection, tone, feel, all of it puts him in the upper stratosphere for most guitar players.

[Buzzrock 15026]

Boston, the band, sucks ass. I don’t ever need to hear them again in my life.

Someone understood the assignment

[stc 1467]

but he's right. 

8 hours ago, ztejas said:

Boston (1976) is one of the greatest and most important albums made by anybody, ever. 

 

legitimate lol

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

but he's right. 
legitimate lol

Yes, legitimate bad take.

[stc 1467]

yes, i was agreeing. boston is terrible. 

[Al_4_ISU 12526]

I like Boston, but I'd be completely fine never hearing another note for the rest of my life.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

1 minute ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I like Boston, but I'd be completely fine never hearing another note for the rest of my life.

That’s 98% of the bands I could hit with a swinging dead cat, though. Maybe more. There are a lot of bands I “like” but maybe five I’d genuinely miss. 

[BrickHorn 18318]

34 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Your measuring stick seems to be “how hard are they to imitate” which I think is a pretty narrow view

No. That’s only one aspect of what I believe makes a great guitarist. Technical difficulty alone is not enough. I don’t count Yngwie or Satriani or Vai among the greats, because they don’t have great feel or musicality. And similarly, I don’t count Prince or White among the greats because even if they have feel in their playing, they don’t do anything special from a technical or phrasing standpoint. (I happen to enjoy White’s music more than Prince’s, btw.)

And I don’t just apply this standard to musicians I’m not that into. Alice In Chains is maybe my all time favorite band and I love Jerry Cantrell’s playing. To me, he’s more soulful than Prince or Jack White or Gilmour and he wrote laps around those guys. But I don’t consider him an all-time great guitarist. 

 

[locodos 5423]

33 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

That’s 98% of the bands I could hit with a swinging dead cat, though. Maybe more. There are a lot of bands I “like” but maybe five I’d genuinely miss. 

• Van Halen
• Clash
• Led Zeppelin
• Doors
• Johnny Lee Hooker
• SRV
• Muddy Waters
• Tom Petty & Heartbreakers
• Black Keys
• Pink Floyd

10 just off the top of my head

Edited March 8, 2023 by locodos

[NTVTXN 1432]

13 hours ago, Patricio Swayze said:

I don’t ever need to hear them again in my life.

 

38 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I like Boston, but I'd be completely fine never hearing another note for the rest of my life

This is where I am with Boston…and Aerosmith, the scorpions, “Van Hagar”, Tesla, bon jovi, poison, quiet riot and every other ‘80’s-‘90’s “hair” band…except Dokken, ‘cause they kick ass!! Lol

[G650 14301]

6 minutes ago, NTVTXN said:

 

except Dokken, ‘cause they kick ass!! Lol

 

Just listen to the tapes, because Don Dokken is in some rough ass shape right now lol. His voice is shot.

[Vic Mackey 47303]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:44 PM, Doc Daneeka said:

Guns and Roses sucks and Axl Rose swallows. 

Aerosmith is pretty pedestrian and Tyler’s vocals have become a cheese grater for the ears. 

Agreed about Guns N Roses. Boring, generic rock that sucks.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

10 minutes ago, locodos said:

• Van Halen
• Clash
• Led Zeppelin
• Doors
• Johnny Lee Hooker
• SRV
• Muddy Waters
• Tom Petty & Heartbreakers
• Black Keys

9 just off the top of my head

• AC/DC
• Boston
• The Cars
• Iron Maiden
• Judas Priest
• Metallica
• George Strait

Van Halen. I like them but there’s a lot of garbage mixed in with the debut and Fair Warning. 

Metallica. I might have to put them on the list for Master and Kill ‘em All. Ride the Lightning. Black Album. OK, I’m adding them. 

Collective Soul. Lot of songs I like. Would consider.

Parkway Drive. They straddle the growling vocal bullshit line that I don’t like but they’re more likely to put out good new stuff than most in my list

There are bands like Bachman-Turner Overdrive, Cheap Trick, and REO Speedwagon that have a lot of songs I like, but by and large they’re not exceptional. Would I like to hear them? Yeah. Would I miss them? Not a ton  

 

 

[NTVTXN 1432]

Just now, G650 said:

 

Just listen to the tapes, because Don Dokken is in some rough ass shape right now lol. His voice is shot.

Yeah, my attempt at sarcasm was that successful. 🫤
I’ve not listened to Dokken since 1987. I was a Sr in high school- it was a glorious time…or so I thought; then my 20’s rolled around- they were glorious- then my 30’s- then my 40’s…glorious all of it.

Anyway, I digress- What I’ve gleaned from this thread is what we all know- Music is art. And people have different views of the same “artist” or their “works”, be it a song, painting or a sculpture.  But it all is so glorious simply because ART!! 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

12 minutes ago, NTVTXN said:

 

This is where I am with Boston…and Aerosmith, the scorpions, “Van Hagar”, Tesla, bon jovi, poison, quiet riot and every other ‘80’s-‘90’s “hair” band…except Dokken, ‘cause they kick ass!! Lol

I think Boston holds up. I think Cinderella holds up, partly because they have some bluesier stuff that Kiefer likes. The rest… every once in a while but I’m much more likely to skip that stuff than I used to be. I’m out of Bon Jovi. I do like Lynch-era Dokken. And I’ll listen to Scorpions doing The Zoo every time. 

[NTVTXN 1432]

3 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Metallica. I might have to put them on the list for Master and Kill ‘em All. Ride the Lightning. Black Album. OK, I’m adding them

Yeah, I “added” them to my list in 1990 when I walked out of their show.

I only wanted to see The Cult (now that WAS a band).  
 

🫤

 

[NTVTXN 1432]

Just now, Doc Daneeka said:

The rest… every once in a while but I’m much more likely to skip that stuff than I used to be

Yup, this is me. If we’re sitting around having beers and a listening to a random playlist, cool.  But if you tee up “Hair Rock” or whatever it is on Amazon/Sirius/Apple….I’m out.

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

1 minute ago, NTVTXN said:

Yeah, I “added” them to my list in 1990 when I walked out of their show.

I only wanted to see The Cult (now that WAS a band).  
 

🫤

 

I listened to The Cult a lot about the time I also had Operation: Mindcrime on permanent rotation. Good stuff. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

Just now, NTVTXN said:

Yup, this is me. If we’re sitting around having beers and a listening to a random playlist, cool.  But if you tee up “Hair Rock” or whatever it is on Amazon/Sirius/Apple….I’m out.

Hair Nation is one of my presets on Sirius but I skip past it a lot. Mostly Octane these days. 

[G650 14301]

I find the amount of references to REO Speedwagon on here lately disturbing.

[NTVTXN 1432]

I’m curious to hear @BrickHorn’s opinion on Billy Duffy’s playing.

i will clarify, I cannot play one single note on any musical instrument and I’m sad that I can’t/never learned. I was of the opinion as a kid/teenager that music/choir/band kids were the geeks/nerds.  I said it up thread in an earlier post, 15-18yo me was a bit of a dumbass at times. 

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by NTVTXN
Shrek thumbs at it again

[tbone_ 14255]

I also had Operation: Mindcrime on permanent rotation. Good stuff. 

This masterpiece never got anywhere near the love it deserved.

I’ll still throw this on from time to time in the car on a trip and go front to back.

[texasdago 7589]

re: the question on top "pop" bands... I suppose you can call them pop but I'd say one of the best ever was INXS.  They produced one great song after another with an exceptionally charismatic front man who unfortunately could not hang in there long term.

Someone mentioned Van Halen and not liking them.  I loved DLR Van Halen but will live a nice comfortable life if I never hear Van Hagar again.  That said, this was an exceptional pre VH album:

 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

17 minutes ago, tbone_ said:

 

This masterpiece never got anywhere near the love it deserved.

I’ll still throw this on from time to time in the car on a trip and go front to back.

 

This is one of those relatively rare “albums” that kicks ass from the first note of the first song until the end. Even apart from the story and the songs themselves, I really, really like the prominence of the bass and, of course, Tate’s vocals.

”She’s a risk. And get the priest, as well.”

The guy doing the news in the background is Mike Snyder, who was in channel 5 (NBC) in DFW, but you probably knew that. 

[Doc Daneeka 6769]

4 minutes ago, texasdago said:

re: the question on top "pop" bands... I suppose you can call them pop but I'd say one of the best ever was INXS.  They produced one great song after another with an exceptionally charismatic front man who unfortunately could not hang in there long term.

Someone mentioned Van Halen and not liking them.  I loved DLR Van Halen but will live a nice comfortable life if I never hear Van Hagar again.  That said, this was an exceptional pre VH album:

 

Three Lock Box wasn’t exactly terrible, either. 

[Buzzrock 15026]

No. That’s only one aspect of what I believe makes a great guitarist. Technical difficulty alone is not enough. I don’t count Yngwie or Satriani or Vai among the greats, because they don’t have great feel or musicality. And similarly, I don’t count Prince or White among the greats because even if they have feel in their playing, they don’t do anything special from a technical or phrasing standpoint. (I happen to enjoy White’s music more than Prince’s, btw.)
And I don’t just apply this standard to musicians I’m not that into. Alice In Chains is maybe my all time favorite band and I love Jerry Cantrell’s playing. To me, he’s more soulful than Prince or Jack White or Gilmour and he wrote laps around those guys. But I don’t consider him an all-time great guitarist. 
 

Jesus. Who the fuck do you consider great?

[G650 14301]

16 minutes ago, texasdago said:

re: the question on top "pop" bands... I suppose you can call them pop but I'd say one of the best ever was INXS.  They produced one great song after another with an exceptionally charismatic front man who unfortunately could not hang in there long term.

Very good band, total omission on my part.

9 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Jesus. Who the fuck do you consider great?

Himself of course.

[DougO 5257]

Funny how people often equate popularity with greatness.

In other unsurprising news, Survivor is kicking off its 44th season.

 

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

2 minutes ago, DougO said:

Survivor is kicking off its 44th season.

It's because they have the Eye of the Tiger.

[Vic Mackey 47303]

Unpopular but Nickelback is not terrible. They make radio pop songs for the masses. Tons of other bands have this same sound. Safe, straightforward and generic. I get it became a big running thing to trash them at any chance. Do I seek them out to listen? Not at all. But some of their songs are catchy if I ever hear them. 

[BrickHorn 18318]

56 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Jesus. Who the fuck do you consider great?

Some of the guitarists I admire most are Page, Beck, Slash, EVH, Django Reinhardt, Marty Friedman, Mike Bloomfield, early Clapton, Chet Atkins, Alvin Lee, Johnny Winters, Doc Watson, Joe Pass, Lightnin’ Hopkins, Skip James, Eric Johnson. Those are just off the top of my head. There are others. 

47 minutes ago, G650 said:

Himself of course.

Nope. I can play okay, but I’m not remotely great and I don’t claim to be. Which is why the fact that even I—at best, a competent hobby guitarist—could learn one of Prince’s most lauded solos (which it’s not clear Prince himself could replicate or ever played full speed) without much difficulty indicates that his playing isn’t special. 

1 hour ago, NTVTXN said:

I’m curious to hear @BrickHorn’s opinion on Billy Duffy’s playing.

I don’t know enough about his music and haven’t ever learned to play any Cult songs. So… no comment, other than Fire Woman is a banger. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by BrickHorn

[Buzzrock 15026]

Unpopular but Nickelback is not terrible. They make radio pop songs for the masses. Tons of other bands have this same sound. Safe, straightforward and generic. I get it became a big running thing to trash them at any chance. Do I seek them out to listen? Not at all. But some of their songs are catchy if I ever hear them. 

My man.

[Buzzrock 15026]

I don’t know enough about his music and haven’t ever learned to play any Cult songs. So… no comment, other than Fire Woman is a banger. 

Again you fall back to your primary criteria is “Can Brickhorn play it.” I think that’s silly.